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30 Million Years to Recover From Extinction?
Scientists have been saying for a while that by the end of this century, half of all species could be extinct. And a new study says that it could take an awfully long time for Earth to recover—30 million years, to be specific.
Back in the Permian era, Earth lost more than 90 percent of all life. Scientists once thought that species rebounded quickly from the hit, but it turns out they were sort of missing the fine print, according to researchers at Bristol University:
Sahney and Benton looked at the recovery of tetrapods – animals with a backbone and four legs, such as amphibians and reptiles – and found that although globally tetrapods appeared to recover quickly, the dramatic restructuring that occurred at the community level was not permanent and communities did not recover numerically or ecologically until about 30 million years later.
And when the species were struggling to rebound back then, they didn't even have to deal with us.
Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term "National socialism"). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities?where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist. Sounds a lot like the left in America today.
Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term "National socialism"). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities?where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist. Sounds a lot like the left in America today.
Not much chance that in 30 million years anyone will have to worry about us then either. In fact, there's probably not much chance that any other species will have to deal with us in 30 thousand years ... or 3 thousand years ... possibly not even in 300 years.
Check out a nice new book called 'Under a Green Sky' detailing the causes of the other mass extinctions on the planet. They may surprise you. We all know what happened 65.3 million years ago. However, the causes of the other mass extinctions on the planet appears to be quite different.
Kiera, people are worrying about surviving from one day to another. We eat other creatures. We are concerned about our own survival for today. Our children are a blessing from God.
Maria,
That short-sighted view is likely to be the death of your children, or possibly their children. The planet cannot support the number of people currently on it. We are, quite literally, stealing from our children to feed ourselves. The top soil is declining. The world's fresh water supplies are being exhausted. Of the fish we harvest, the oceans are 90% dead. We must reduce our population dramatically if we are to survive as a species. If we do not reduce our numbers, they will be reduced for us. If we do not do it ourselves, we will not get to choose the number we're left with. It may be zero, i.e. human extinction. We cannot violate the laws of nature.
Your fairy tale god will not help you out of this one.
"your fairy tale god". Good one Scott. Look at the biggest Jewish right wing nut, Moses. He had a policy of genocide to steal the land from the original inhabitants. (Moses's policy for genocide is all in the Hebrew Bible, but wasn't he an Egyptian and married to a Black woman? ) Modern day Zionists base their right to the land on this ancient first Hitler. What goes around comes around. We live in the 21st Century. Say no to Zionism, say no to racism.
Josh,
You certainly won't catch me disagreeing about the genocide in Deuteronomy through Joshua. I would just point out that all flavors of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion (deliberately singular) are equally genocidal this way. You make it sound as if some other flavor is actually peaceful. Check my post on the subject with plenty of examples of violence inherent in both the old and new testament.
http://misanthropicscott.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/thou-shalt-kill/
Keep in mind, religion is sectarian, by definition. This means that it is literally intentionally designed by man to split people up into sects. The idea is that once we divide Us from Them, it is always OK to kill Them.
We find many ways to do this. Religion is just one such tool for fueling xenophobic genocide. It is not the only one. However, given its obvious falsehood and the severity of the ways in which the bad outweighs the good many times over, religion would be among the first bits of human culture I would throw away. If that means losing some perfectly good bathwater just 'cause there's a dirty baby in it, I'm OK with that.
So, just be careful to remember that when you say no to zionism and racism, you must also say no to the culture that takes pride in its deliberate targeting of civilians. That's the culture that for decades has proudly claimed credit for blowing up school buses.
There is no possible context in which it is OK to blow up a school bus.
So, condemn racism, condemn violence, but condemn both sides equally. Don't be fooled by anti-Semitic media. Both sides are wrong in this. Only removal of all religion will heal this wound. Both sides in this are Semites. Both sides claim a descent from Abraham/Ibrahim. The only thing separating these brothers is religion.
http://misanthropicscott.wordpress.com/2007/09/12/one-people-divided-by-...
Religion kills folks dead!
Scott, spoken like a true Marxist.
Scott,Israel is like the SS running the camps. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak announced that he had ordered his troops to allow Palestinians to cross into Egypt because they were starving. Jimmy Carter is right about apartheid, but it is worse, it is like the SS camps. The "Stockholm Syndrome". No more taxpayer money for the new SS.
Josh,
So, clearly since you think only Israel is wrong in this, you have no problem with people who blow up school buses.
Please, I'd like to hear you say it though. Please type in your own words why you think it is OK for anyone to blow up a school bus full of children.
Thanks.
And cut the Marxist shit. I have not said a word to indicate that I support utopian socialism. I have no idea what you think is Marxist in my thinking.
It seems there's some movement today to label a particular set of views that Marx did not hold as 'Marxist'. This is a crock of shit and it stinks.
In the middle east, the Muslims are third world people(who never claim to be a democracy) so we progressives give them a pass sometimes. We expect more from White Israel because they claim they are a "democracy" so we hold them to higher values so they will not be a hypocrite.
Scott, as a "Misanthropic", you should understand. The Finnish eco-philosopher Pentti Linkola is considered as the most influential misanthrope currently living. He has openly advocated genocide as means of population control, Social Darwinism to promote euthanasia campaigns for extermination of life unworthy of living, execution of doctors keeping stillborns alive and Plato-style aristocracy as form of governance to keep living standards low enough for sustainable ecology. Get with the program Scott.
Josh,
You're welcome to come to my blog and read the detailed reasons for my misanthropic nature and exactly what I mean by it instead of picking some misanthrope no one ever heard of and assuming that my views must be exactly the same.
Personally, I advocate only voluntary reduction of human population through attrition. I am a member of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, which simply means that I have chosen not to breed and perpetuate the problem of our species.
Josh,
Your double standard of morality makes you a complete bigot. If you're not willing to admit that, then you are a hypocrite as well. Since you still refuse to state that blowing up school buses is flat dead wrong as an action for any humans under any circumstances, I am forced to also state that you are doing a fine job of living up to the myth of your genocidal namesake in the Bible.
You also do a fine job of reminding me of exactly what I hate about our species. In my opinion, you are a complete waste of valuable planetary resources. May the meat that is currently tied up in your body be recycled soon into more useful organisms, for example, earthworms.
Scott, from a scientific evolutionary standpoint, there is no right or wrong, only the continuation of the species. Where do you get your sense of right and wrong? Surely not from science. In science there is no right nor wrong. I only claim to be a scientist, not a philosopher. I do point out the contradictions in others.
Actually Josh,
I get my view of right or wrong from properly functioning morals processing centers in my brain. Science has a lot to say about morals these days. You should start by reading about the trolley problems and brain scans of people undergoing the test.
As for continuation of the species being all that is important, I assume you would be OK with something that killed off 95% of the humans on the planet since that is likely a requirement for our survival.
Either way though, I say to you that your double standard makes you a despicable human being in my opinion.
Analogies by definition can only be perfect if they are exactly the same as the situation being analogized. That said, they can be quite useful for illustrating various points. Here's one that I think will let you know why I find your views abhorrent.
Consider an individual raised in an obviously disadvantaged situation. I'll leave the details of that situation to your imagination while assuming there to be some situation that both of us would agree meets the definition.
Said individual reaches the age of 23 and gets his/her hands on a gun. The individual proceeds to shoot 12 people of varying ages. Surely, this person must not be held to the same standards as the rest of us, so you will "give [him/her] a pass".
You will not convict such a person for murder. You will arrest the person and take away the gun. You will not even give the person a warning not to do this again. In fact, you will stand by, give the person a pass (your words), and not even be willing to state that the action was wrong.
That is what you do with the Palestinians, exactly and in no uncertain terms.
You will not even state for the record here on this site that you believe their deliberate targeting of civilians is wrong. You will not state that it is wrong when they deliberately fire rockets from residential areas in hopes that Israel will retaliate against the exact locale from which the rocket was fired. In short, when they kill innocent men, women, and children, you think it's morally acceptable because you hate Jews.
Therefore, I find your morals highly suspect and your views unconscionable.
I too am a progressive. However, I recognize racial bias when I see it. I recognize bad morals when I see them. And, I stand up and say it, like this:
You, Josh, are a small-minded bigot with an unconscionable and inconsistent moral code.
Oops. Typo in my above comment. In my I meant to say in paragraph 7:
You will NOT arrest the person and take away the gun.
Scott, there are numerous situations in our society where women who kill their children or their husbands get a pass and get a stern warning and some mental health treatment. You apparently are deficient in your multi-cultural education or you would understand. From an European perspective(our intellectual superiors), the Israelis are the guilty party in their occupation and the concentration camp(in Europe the Israelis are referred to as the new Nazis) that they run in Gaza. Why else do the Europeans give billions of dollars to help the third world people(Palestinians)? Israel's founders were terrorists(from the British perspective). If you admit that, than I will admit the same about Hamas and their kin). You are a Jewish nationalist, like 70% of the American Jews(according to the Jewish polls that I read), I am in the other 30% who are not racists. I am a Scientist and an internationalist, not a narrow minded nationalist. From a Scientific standpoint, your source of morals comes from your Judaeo background, as well as your nationalism. That is fine, according to evolution, the world is made up of all types and kinds of life forms. But please don't be so judgmental on right and wrong. Who is to say what is right and what is wrong, as the TAO states.
Josh,
You're certainly very good at making up [deleted] about me. I wonder where you got all of that.
I am not a Jewish nationalist at all. If you read my posts, you will see that I started by admitting that both sides are wrong.
What bothers me is that you have a double moral standard. This is not scientific. It is bullshit founded upon absolutely nothing.
Hamas is a terrorist organization. This is not in debate. This is fact. They deliberately target civilians in order to instill terror.
The U.S. was a terrorist nation when we deliberately targeted civilians in Hiroshima.
You can rationalize all you want. It's not about third world versus developed world or democratic nation versus theocracy. Israel is a theocracy.
Terrorism is about deliberate targeting of civilians. There will always be collateral damage. That cannot be avoided. But, when the U.S. deliberately picked a non-military target in Hiroshima, that was terrorism. When Hamas deliberately targets civilians (on both sides, by the way, one by their direct action, one by their knowledge that Israel will strike at the point from which the rocket was launched), that is terrorism.
You have rationalized an abhorrent viewpoint to your own satisfaction. But, it does nothing for me. Terrorism is wrong no matter who commits it.
That is my opinion. I am entitled to it. Who's to say what is right and what is wrong? Each of us has that ability. My voice says that terrorism is wrong. Yours tolerates it. For that, I find your views unconscionable and abhorrent.
One more point, the fact that you can find others who take abhorrent actions does not make the actions of Hamas less abhorrent. It just adds them to a collection of morally reprehensible actions.
The argument that (foo) is not bad because (bar) is worse does not hold water. It's a fallacy from the start. (foo) is bad. Period. That (bar) is worse just means there is more wrong with the world than simply (foo).
You can insert anything you like for (foo) and (bar). (bar)'s existence will never make (foo) any better.
Scott, I would recommend that you need to be sent to a "reeducation camp"(a place where individuals could be rehabilitated into society through education and socially constructive labor).
because you apparently do not understand the principles of "multiculturalism" (no one culture is any better than another) and you appear not to understand third world people. Beware, opposition to multiculturalism is first cousin to racism.
Josh,
LOL!!! I was thinking the same about you and for the same reasons.
You think that Palestinians are so bad that you need to "give them a pass".
I think they're normal human beings subject to the same rules the rest of us play by. Human rights violations are the same for U.S., Israel, Rwanda, and Palestine. It's you that needs to understand this better.
Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term "National socialism"). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universitieswhere campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist. Sounds a lot like the left in America today.
Yeah, apparently you two are the best example of extintion in the World, probably the human will disappear tommorrow or maybe in three years fightting about things that seems to be in the past.
Yitzhak Shamir, once a terrorist and responsible for the deaths of Count Folke Bernadotte, UN mediator and British official Lord Moyne. Shamir,would later would become prime minister of Israel, declared that 'neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.'" What goes around comes around. Those that live by the sword, die by the sword.
Kurt,
Thanks. This conversation was starting to go in circles. I'm glad you ended it by Godwin's Law. Oh, unfortunately, of course, you lose for doing so. Still though, I hope you'll think it was worth it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Josh has clearly failed to understand my point about foo and bar above. He also seems to forget that he has only pointed to a single individual, which does not make it OK to kill innocent civilians who happen to be from the same country. He's now stuck in a shampoo-rinse-repeat loop. I'll bow out at this point. Godwin's Law closes the entire thread anyway.