Feministing's Courtney E. Martin Guest Blogs on "Pole Dancers"

thank you for saying exactly what was on my mind when i read Debra Dickerson's piece (albeit much more articulately than i could have managed). i have so much respect for the feminists that came before us which makes it all the more discouraging when they refuse to acknowledge my experiences, my struggles, my activism, and yes, my criticism. let's not idealize the past--the movement was never perfect, and it's always changing, if only because the world is changing. we have new problems, different dimensions to old problems, and young people and young feminists ARE on the ground innovating new ways to tackle these problems. we have so much to learn from older feminists, but only if they acknowledge that they have something to learn from us young folks, too.

and no matter how much drinking and dancing and facebooking i do, i refuse to apologize for the way i live my life.

i second....

good for you! i believe that is part of the problem, right there.

they did not feel they could be doing those things, drinking, hanging with friends and socializing, because it would detract form their message or they wouldn't be taken seriously. likely, they didn't want to look like those hippie whores.
(cause we are smater than them you know! cause we have something to say)!

and so the judgement begins that if you are doing those things, you couldn't possibly be serious about the movement. or to be more accurate, your priorities are wrong, you MUST be more interested in partying and getting laid than worrying about whether Roe is in jeopardy because of the state by state chipping away of reporoductive freedoms!
(but you wouldn't understand, you all take it for granted, hello!)

times are different ladies. we don't care if you have a problem with it because we'll challenge you to debate on why you have that problem to begin with, and what that bigger monster hiding behind you really is---patriarchy, of course. BOO!!!

why can't we do such things and still want to change the wrongs?
who says that man cant enjoy themselves and still get good works done.
NO ONE. Thats who.

So I say "see me dance in my short skirt shaklng my tail feathers where boys can see (gasp, the horror!), cause tomorrow I am organizing a campus rally to the captial to demand access to EC on my campus"!

"Blogging about your sex lives ain't exactly what we previous generations thought feminism was. We thought it was about taking it to the streets."

You know, that's actually not true. I mean, obviously nobody was blogging in the '60s and '70s, because the technology didn't exist. But second wave feminists absolutely did believe that it was important for women to talk about their lives with each other and to learn to interpret their lives, including their sex lives, in a political light. That's what "consciousness raising" was about. That's what the slogan "the personal is political" meant. There were real problems with those strategies, and we see some of the same problems in the feminist blogosphere. But it's silly and frankly ignorant to suggest that talking about one's sex life is some new, self-indulgent thing that only feminists born after 1980 do.

I was shocked to see so much anger directed at Dickerson and her words. It seems to me that the commenters are very angry indeed, but their anger is directed at another woman who is expressing a valid and cogent opinion. Why the need to attack her? Is your comfort zone so narrow?

I see validity in both Dickerson and Martin. Being old enough to have gone through the movements of the 60's and 70's, there was a lot of anger thrown around, and justifiably so. And it does rankle us aging feminists to see hard-won battles (credit in our names, insurance for our families, etc.) being taken for granted so quickly by a younger generation.

OTOH, there have been changes and we must acknowledge them. Taking to the streets doesn't work anymore; 1) too many people are afraid for their jobs; 2) the police have better tools and less sympathy; and 3) the media barely make mention of protests. Now we have the internet and we have seen, via Obamamania, how that can work, person to person, to organize like-minded people. Also, many men have done their homework and see the injustices where they happen. It's unfortunate that these men are out-shouted by the haters in the media. But we can't forget that they are standing with us.

So perhaps we can all be a little less rancorous and a little more generous with each other. Perhaps, then, we can all turn our attention to what's really important, like stopping the abuse of women in uniform, campaigning our local school board for intelligent sex-ed and confirming to girl children that it's okay to be smart and speak up in class.

thanks. Thank you for your activism and your humanity; *you* are the reasons that I self-identify as a feminist. You are what brought me to feminism.you are the most intelligent person i ever met...