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On the surface it looks harmless enough, except perhaps as a source of potential pork. California's Dana Rohrabacher, one of three Republicans to oppose the bill, told Congressional Quarterly that he saw the creation of the commission as "the [worst] type of posturing. Is spending $20 million so people can talk more and pay for their hotel rooms and expenses really going to solve anything? I don't think so."

On the Democratic side, however, the legislation's three nay votes included Kucinich, who refers to it as the "thought-crimes bill." At campaign stops in New Hampshire, Kucinich cited the bill as yet another sign of government intervention in civil liberties. Earlier in his campaign, he said it "sets the stage for further criminalization of protest."

The bill raises the potential for government encroachments on civil rights in part through the way it defines some basic terms. The text of the bill says that "the term 'violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change." It gives no clue as to what would qualify, under this law, as an "extremist belief system," leaving this open to broad interpretation according to the prevailing political winds.

In addition, simply by designating the "process of adopting or promoting" belief systems as a target for government concern or control, the bill moves into dangerous territory. The director of the ACLU's Washington legislative office, Caroline Fredrickson, said in a statement on the bill, "Law enforcement should focus on action, not thought. We need to worry about the people who are committing crimes rather than those who harbor beliefs that the government may consider to be extreme."

The United States already has ample federal and state laws against violence of all kinds, and against conspiracy to commit violence. Participants in the handful of "homegrown terrorist" plots that have hatched since 9/11 are being prosecuted under these existing statutes. Certain kinds of direct incitement to violence are already illegal, as well, but within strict limits.

Robert Peck of the Center for Constitutional Litigation points out that some of the most significant First Amendment battles have been fought over precisely when "speech transgresses the line from mere advocacy, which is protected by the First Amendment, to incitement, which is not." Through the early twentieth century, when "incitement" was defined broadly as speech that had a "tendency" to cause illegal acts, it was used to prosecute nonviolent abolitionists, anarchists, socialists, and draft resisters. Gradually, the Supreme Court narrowed the definition, so that speech is protected unless it will "intentionally produce a high likelihood of real imminent harm."

What the Homegrown Terrorism bill does is bring back into the equation not just violent actions, and not just violent plots, but the words and ideas that may (or may not) inspire or encourage them somewhere down the road. It moves toward designating people as terrorists based not on what they do, but on what they say and what they think.

Other red flags appear in the bill's initial "findings"—among them, the charge that "the Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens." "If Congress finds the Internet is dangerous, then the ACLU will have to worry about censorship and limitations on First Amendment activities," says the ACLU's Fredrickson. "Why go down that road?"

It's the "road" the bill lays out that worries civil libertarians. "This measure looks benign enough, but we should be concerned about where it will lead," Kamau Franklin of New York's Center for Constitutional Rights said when the bill passed the House. The National Commission it creates will have broad power to conduct investigations; one commentator dubbed it the "Son of HUAC"—the House Un-American Activities Committee—because it is supposed to travel around the country, holding hearings and questioning people under oath about their ideological beliefs. Wherever it may ultimately lead, the bill seems clearly part of a growing push toward expanding domestic intelligence operations—spying that is aimed not at any Al Qaeda members who may have slipped across the border, but at U.S. citizens and legal residents. The great civil libertarian Frank J. Donner, in his book The Age of Surveillance: The Aims and Methods of America's Political Intelligence System, argued that the true goal of domestic intelligence was not to prevent or punish criminal activity, but to protect existing power structures and suppress dissent. Unlike law enforcement, which deals with illegal actions that have already been committed, domestic intelligence is by nature "future-oriented": It is not looking for criminals, but potential criminals, and it does so by relying on "ideology, not behavior, theory not practice." Anyone who thinks the wrong way could at some point act the wrong way—so they have to be watched.

Donner was writing in the late 1970s, following congressional investigations that exposed the abuses of the FBI's COINTELPRO (Counterintelligence Program), which for more than a decade had conducted surveillance and planted informants to spy on and disrupt what J. Edgar Hoover had decided were "enemies of the American way of life"—including civil rights, anti-war, student, and women's liberation groups, as well as the John Birch Society and the Ku Klux Klan. During this period, the bureau tapped phones, opened mail, planted bugs, and burglarized homes and offices. At least 26,000 individuals were at one point catalogued on an FBI list of persons to be rounded up in the event of a "national emergency." In the end, the Bureau conducted more than half a million investigations of so-called subversives and maintained files on well over a million Americans—all of this without a single conviction for a criminal act.



 

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Thank you for talking sense. It is so rare among the rest of the MSM. Kucinich is the archetype Democrat and Paul is the archetype Republican. It is so maddening that we let the MSM make us forget this in the polls and when we vote. Just think folks. If you really believe that gender or skin color are more important than consistency, ideas, and positions on the issues this coming election cycle, then we are all doomed. Go talk to your grandparents about the great depression. This could be worse if we do not get it right this November.
Posted by:DenisLJanuary 23, 2008 8:19:33 AMRespond ^
How many more Oklahoma City type bombings will we have to have before there is equal attention paid to the homegrown threat of white supremacist and/or radical seperatist groups of white Americans.Lets not forget that prior to 9/11/01 the largest, most damaging terrorist attack on American soil against Americans not all of a specific easily identifiable minority group was the Oklahoma City bombing.Let's all hope that those groups don't put aside their bigotry long enough to form a bizarre alliance with any jihadists to try and bring about the downfall of America.The enemy of my enemy is my "friend" for as long as is needed.
Posted by:zqahttJanuary 23, 2008 9:19:22 AMRespond ^
Homegrown, ideological terrorism has so far only been perpetuated by "false flag" operations, by "agents provocateurs" posing as political activists for the purposes of inciting riots by the police against lawfully gathering citizens.
Posted by:ADNKJanuary 23, 2008 12:21:06 PMRespond ^
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
Posted by:Michael SillJanuary 23, 2008 12:41:19 PMRespond ^
Is anyone surprised? This is what they have been leading up to the last 7 years. Unfortunately for us they have stacked the less than supreme court and we can't count on them to make it right!
Posted by:Rodney ByrdJanuary 23, 2008 12:58:30 PMRespond ^
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. When any of us is going to be investigated and brandid a potential terrorist because of our thoughts, then I say the terrorists have one. And those terrorists are among us already. They are the Jane Harmans who introduce or support thought control legislation.
Posted by:jdickbJanuary 23, 2008 1:10:33 PMRespond ^
To use a refrain from a Cheap Trick song, Dream Police, it is now renamed "the thought police come to me in by bed, the thought police get inside of my head". Private Republican party armies,such as Blackwater,,a Homeland Security Dept.[DHS] established to quash domestic protests resulting from globalization and the land for internment camps ready to be used with the likes of Blackwater mercenaries to guard them, it all makes sense. The DHS with nothing to do will just make up crimes subject to thought police laws. Crime will expand to fill the thought available.The implementation of a soviet fascist government by Bush the Republicans and Democrats is the only bipartisanship that will come from Wash., DC
Posted by:bogi666January 23, 2008 1:32:53 PMRespond ^
The bill is prima facie unconstitutional but no court will rule that way since they have no clue about the law anymore. The biggest *domestic* terrorist threats are the ALF, ELF, DEA, and ATF.
Posted by:TannimJanuary 23, 2008 1:40:43 PMRespond ^
Lead us to the trough, feed our minds with your thoughts your purified ideas and socio/political ideology; lead us to oblivion. Vote for thought control and the riot-thought police to direct our daily regime. Give in to conformity and social direction. The globe is too small and the world too crowded. There is too much violence caused by subjective thought; let the objective thought consortiums develop our familial and social ideas and "relax".
Posted by:Al ComstockJanuary 23, 2008 5:34:53 PMRespond ^
I read in CQ that this bill was killed in the Senate. True or false?
Posted by:Laurel ConroyJanuary 24, 2008 5:16:35 AMRespond ^
With apologies to Frank Zappa - "Who are the Brain Police?"
Posted by:LouisJanuary 24, 2008 6:30:49 AMRespond ^
The only people that whine about Big Brother are those people who are up to something. My wife and I go to work to raise our family, pay our taxes, and live life. we do nothing wrong. I could care less if the government watched us 24/7. So quit whining. If this watch dog stuff helps prevent pyschopaths from killing innocent people, so be it. It's the f'd up world we live in, deal with it.
Posted by:joeJanuary 24, 2008 6:46:38 AMRespond ^
To Joe: While talking about this new "anti-terrorist" act in our country and how bad it is, we are exactly thinking about people like you, who go to work to feed their family and live a normal life. Then, one day, through no fault of your own, you make a mistake and the thought police gets you ... but you are a law abiding citizen, you say, you pay your taxes, have children, live a decent family life! To no avail, they drag you away and your family never gets to see you again, plus your children's and spouse's life are destroyed and their futures bleakened. It is not really about whining, you see, it is about protecting all of us from unjust and unfair practices from a force that is much bigger than any of us individually: government.
Posted by:Marcela WagnerJanuary 24, 2008 10:20:13 AMRespond ^
AMEN TO THAT!
Posted by:MARYJanuary 24, 2008 10:30:24 AMRespond ^
Wow. You people are really paranoid and delusional.
Posted by:joeJanuary 24, 2008 10:45:41 AMRespond ^
Paranoid, yes. Delusional, no.
Posted by:GregJanuary 24, 2008 11:34:01 AMRespond ^
Joe, it's not paranoia, it is Liberty. The idea that people can live without coersion by ideologues of any stripe is necessary for freedom. Yes, it may seem harmless for govt. to keep tabs on us "for our own good," but that slope is too too slippery.
Posted by:Erik LJanuary 24, 2008 11:47:56 AMRespond ^
THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE: " ...that night we ended meeting up on the corner of Broadway and John and decided about what we were going to do the next day the next day we'd meet up at 6:30 at Denny Park and then we'd try to take back the city ... we started to weave our way through the road blocks that they had set up... I looked around & I could see that people were afraid and at that point I said that's not fear in your gut or your throat - that's really your First Taste of Freedom... " - Hop Hopkins, Brown Collective, from "This is What Democracy Looks Like", on Day 2 of the 1999 WTO Seattle Protest - http://www.johntarleton.net/wto.html http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Seattle.asp ttp://thiscanadian.typepad.com/this _canadian/2008/01/this-is-what-de.html ~~~~~ BlueBerry Pick'n can be found @ ThisCanadian.com ~~~ "We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid. ~~~ "Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
Posted by:BlueBerry Pick'nJanuary 24, 2008 1:36:07 PMRespond ^
This bill is McCarthyism. In it's "findings" it equates force with violence, and suggests beliefs are dangerous, and that the internet is dangerous because beliefs are communicated through it. Harman eagerly accepted testimony in the hearings that equated 9/11 inquiry web sites with jihadi terrorist training sites, a sure sign of more "findings" to come from the proposed Commission, which will be recommending laws to Congress 18 months after it passes. The bill establishes a permanent "Center of Excellence". Congress needs to be investigating 9/11, not chilling a public that seeks to hold them accountable. Complete 9/11 Timeline http://cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project
Posted by:ErikJanuary 24, 2008 2:09:38 PMRespond ^
“And advanced forms of biological warfare that can ‘target’ specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.” http://www.newamericancentury.orgRebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf CALL CONGRESS!!!!
Posted by:MaryJanuary 24, 2008 3:24:13 PMRespond ^
I say, they better be watching you, Joe!
Posted by:DaveJanuary 24, 2008 3:34:50 PMRespond ^
Joe: Ask Valerie Plame if she thinks we're delusional. Nobody protected her from the goons. Why would you or I be any luckier?
Posted by:DaveJanuary 24, 2008 3:37:42 PMRespond ^
Joe=HeadInSand
Posted by:Dave2January 25, 2008 10:02:35 AMRespond ^
He's making a list, He's checking it twice, to see who's been naughty or nice. Where in hell have you all been all these years? This has been going on since the later forties! They used to have to be subtle, but, not any longer. They must have completed those detention centers and are getting ready to weed out dissenters from among the brain dead masses. Joe, if I were them, I would put you high on the list of threats, because, when your bubble is finally burst, and you wake up from your dream state, you would very likely become a violent threat. Wake Up America! Its here! The Ultimate Police State and Your About To Get The Ultimate Awakening!
Posted by:Ranselar VanDerpoelJanuary 25, 2008 10:27:23 AMRespond ^
I think we've kind of lived in a police state for years, but this more or less makes it 'official'...where were YOU yesterday, you weren't down at the Sedition Bean and Brew, last night, with them hippy-lookin' fellers, were ya? LOL
Posted by:BertJanuary 25, 2008 10:57:26 AMRespond ^
I feel like I'm living in a Phillip K. Dick story.
Posted by:MikeyJanuary 25, 2008 1:56:33 PMRespond ^
glad to see you are a willing member of the sheeple. the establishment will be pleased.
Posted by:terryJanuary 25, 2008 9:48:04 PMRespond ^
Hey Joe, Do you close the bathroom stall when you use a public restroom? Is it because you have something to hide? Everyone needs some privacy sometimes.
Posted by:joshuaismJanuary 26, 2008 2:43:07 AMRespond ^
The 40's, you do mean BC don't you?
Posted by:LyleJanuary 26, 2008 6:10:08 PMRespond ^
I'm glad I'm living in China -- inspite of the propaganda, this is actually a freer country than most.
Posted by:MishaJanuary 26, 2008 10:19:55 PMRespond ^
It is interesting how trusting some people on the right are of government. It is almost like government has become something like a surrogate religous entity earning them the equivalence of "In God We Trust", which is transformed to "In Government We Trust". Our Founding Fathers recognized that the greatest threat to the Republic was unrestrained power of a Central government. The constitution provided adequate checks and balances to ensure that the power of the central government was restrained. Republicans at one time were the most fearful of a powerful central government. Government is never to be trusted, and citizens were meant to be scrutinize their actions, not to automatically consent due to laziness, ignorance, and/or trust. Unfortunately, over time, and under the guise of various state of emergency decrees, executive orders and signing statements, we have become a government run by Executive decree. And citizens have become consenters. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. More people have been killed by their own government than have ever been killed in all wars combined. You may think it can not happen here, but you would be wrong. History repeats. Terrorism is just a crime committed for reasons other than passion and greed. Criminal law is adequate and McCarthyism is not needed. A just government has no reason to fear homegrown terrorists among it's citizens. The fact that they seem to fear it enough to take action against something that seems to be a very rare occurrence should make you wonder. And if we are so fearful of homegrown terrorism, events in 2001, including Anthrax attacks makes you wonder if the fox is guarding the henhouse. This explains why the Anthrax case has not been solved, the Commission investigating the 2001 attacks was corrupted and discredited, and OBL has never been caught, and is no longer important.
Posted by:PFTJanuary 27, 2008 12:48:46 AMRespond ^
This is the Catholic inquisition all over again. If a drunk in a bar says "lets not pay taxes this year" or "I told my son not to join the stupid marines" or "Rush limdick is a whore that should be shot" it is automatic go to jail...you have to love the American freedoms we all fought for so many times.
Posted by:WhiteywardJanuary 27, 2008 8:11:51 PMRespond ^
I have a further comment on all of this, and it pertains to 'voting'. Let's talk about 'closed primaries' and the essential monopoly that's existed there for a while, and good ol' free speech. When the only issues on your state ballot have to do with how much taxes you'll be paying, the 'game' is rigged, as far as I'm concerned, and there needs to be more debate about public corruption and the voter disconnect. That ballot book should be FULL, choices, options, issues, and so forth, and voting should be a civic duty. Duty. Kind of sounds like the military. Work. That kind of stuff. But, that's what it boils down to, if ya don't vote, and the voting system is kind of shaky to begin with, well, then you end up with government by default, hostile corporate takeovers, and so forth, which, by all appearances, is about what's happened. But, the road to hell there starts with the old public corruption, systemic dysfunction, complex and easily influenced hiring and management practices, and then It Just Gets Ugly from there. Oh, and then there's all the money wrapped up in 'government', and everyone trying to get themselves a slice of that, and the faster, meaner rat gets the biggest piece of cheese and so forth. But, at least when the citizenry is involved, the door is still open for their 'valuable' input. When that door closes, the whole thing kind of goes on automatic, and you end up with crap like NAFTA, and other high-handed socioeconomic 'fun'. Truth be known, the Posse Comitatus Act, that old legislative firewall, kind of got dismembered under Clinton. As much as people bitch about Bush, he's really only the second act, and looking for a handoff in November most likely to Billary and her ilk. I changed my party affiliation to Independent, not because I think it'll bring about any radical or earthshaking reforms by 2PM this friday, but rather because it's my way of saying 'screw you' to the institutional 2-party racket that ends up drastically reducing the number of people that really get a 'vote' in the whole proceeding. I don't think there's even an Independent candidate on the ballot, as of this writing, so if/when they get one, call me. Otherwise I'll spend primary day doing something else, probably looking for a job, 'cause I think 'they' have basically made 'other arrangements' besides relying on the public vote. Government knows best, kiddies, growthies growthies, now... My response? BLANK you. Blank you, and your propaganda, your coercive economic practices, your Forever War, your domestic wirecrapping, and the whole 9 yards. There's some institutional dysfunction that's been allowed to stand for a long, long time, it's profitable and all, but it's not quite Democracy(R). Time in my view, for D.C. to do a damn sight better to live up to the billing, and do simple basic-basic stuff like getting their budget balanced and getting their hands out of peoples' wallets period. Otherwise, it's www.mafia.gov. Figure it out, ladies n germs, that's why you get paid the Big Buxx. If you don't think you're competent, just say as much in the papers so that the People know to try to schedule a recall election to get you out of there...live up to your responsibilites, hire an assistant that can do math...talk to the People, all that peanuty goodness...don't just panhandle major corporations.
Posted by:BertJanuary 28, 2008 2:52:55 PMRespond ^
To zquatt: good point, on the fact that we have many terrorist groups right here at home: the KKK, white supremicists, far right-wing eveangelicalswho believe it justifiable to kill already living humans in order to save something that may, in a given case, be no more than a compex grouping of cells, with no nervous syetem to experience fear or pain, and no consciousness because its brain hasn't begun to develope...its like right-wing religious conservatives only value un-born or just-born humans..."don't touch these previous 'babies' you monster,' but then soon as they're eighteen, it's "ship'em off tto war"!)...But in the end, I think the threat of losing our way, and our Civil Liberties, is the greatest threat we face. If we do that, the terrorists have won. Also, the terrorist threat is used to provoke fear in people, so they can be guided to go along with whatever the gov't says is best for you...But think about this: we're soposed to give up our rights to the 4th amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the 7th amendment (just to mention a few..nevermind that they got the first, too..so far it's mostly been at the Federal Level...but remember that Federal Laws trump State Laws, at least in these days)..anyway, you got to let the government listen to your phone calls, read your e-mails, and now our telling us we better be careful how we think, what we read, etc!--yet--YET! Our borders remain open and mostly unprotected for any terrorist to just walk in...maybe carrying a small tube of a deadly virus..or a tactical nuke! Just follow the Mexicans. If the government was as truly concerned as they say they are, don't you think the first thing they would have done is close and protect the borders? Instead, when practically every other aircraft in the country was grounded, a plane flew the bin-Laden family members that had been in the U.S. back to Saudi Arabia. An investigation would have been launched, the largest in history. Not one piece of that metal would have been moved, for to do so when have been to violate what was, up until 9/11, a Federal Crime. The members responsible would have been prosecuted in a manner like the Nurenburg Trials, when all the people involved had been captured by special forces. They would have been sentenced to die. Instead, we got the biggest joke of an investigation ever, and only after persistently insisting on one by "the Jersey Girls," a group of women whose hubands had died in the towers, did we finally get a totally whitewashed report with the same kind of absurdist claims you find in The Warren Commision, where people are saying things happened that defy the very laws of physics--3 years after the event they began the investigation, with a shoestring budget. And then we decided, on a number of lies repeatedly told to the American public, to support going to war with Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Meanwhile, the supposed "producer" of 9/11, Osama bin Laden, remains a free man..either dead or alive, I don't know. But I do know that if people believe this terrorism war is what it is, knowing that they're doing all this un-Constitutional stuff, while ignoring the most basic things any sane person would do, like secure the borders,are being totally ignored..well, if you still believe the "official conspiracy theory" then you are, in my opinion, asleep at the wheel, brainwashed..or just brain dead. So wake up, Americans!
Posted by:AlanJanuary 28, 2008 7:21:52 PMRespond ^
how soon will you need federal ID to leave new jersey? who's permission will you need to get to go to the next town? what happens when your daughter refuses to date a homeland security employee?
Posted by:felix randomJanuary 30, 2008 10:20:55 AMRespond ^
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 23, 2008 HR1955/S.1959: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 (or 08?) It may be possible to use the absolutely vague lingo in this bill against its supporters, Jane Harman of CA and Susie Collins of Maine. Check out www.InkyWretch.com, my Jan 23 article on H.R. 1955 (Harman's bill that waltzed through the House, and S. 1959, Collins' companion bill. (Where it's formatted and easier to read Here are some of the ways in which this invidious bill might be turned ass over teacup: This would require the Commission to investigate organizations who "use, plan to use or threaten to use" force to promote their "political, religious or social beliefs," such as: The Demican and Republicrat Parties and their attempt to further their political beliefs by stirring up voters, using legislative force to redistrict opponents out of office, tamper with voting machines, and so on; and other beliefs such as That the "official" conspiracy theory of the 9/11/01 attacks is the only conspiracy theory; That men and women should not be allowed to control what goes on within their own bodies; That employees should have no rights against employers; That citizens should have no power against their Unitary Governments; That corporations should be allowed to hire illegal immigrants, children, anyone they want; That corporations should be allowed to break any and all expensive regulations; That the US Constitution actually does not apply to corporations at all; That rich people should not have to pay any taxes at all; That only "Cretinism" or "Six-Day Universe Design" should be taught in the schools; That large election campaign contributors have the right to hide their assets from the IRS; ... That poor people deserve no respect or government services, as they're actually just lazy deadbeats; That the CIA should be allowed to raise money in any way it finds useful, whether it involves trafficking in drugs, running prostitution rings, gun-running, assassinations and coups for hire; That citizens who wish to vote against the administration be prevented from doing so; That the administration in power has the right to kidnap, pillory or imprison, without recourse to the write of habeas corpus, anyone who dares to criticize the administration or any of its actions; That the administration in power has the right to prevent anyone who attempts to vote it out of office from trying to do so by any and all means (such as, but not limited to, using threats of legal action and imprisonment, by removing them from registration lists, by making it impossible for them to register in the first place, by discarding the ballots or modifying the votes of those who fail to vote for the administration in power, by structuring the laws or geopolitical subdivisions in such a way as to prevent opponents of the administration from achieving a majority if other voter suppression activities should fail for some reason; That the administration in power has the right to force it's political will on the nation, generally; That the US is the most powerful nation in the world and, as Richard Perle said recently, it would be a shame not to use that power— to establish that good ol' New World Order, the ex-CIA operative and later CIA Director, Poppy Bush spook of during his Unitary Term Presidency; That Christ is the Son of God; That Muhammad is the One True Prophet; That Shiva is the all-seeing one; That Buddha is the one true prophet And so on, in a non-exclusive list (that is, there are no doubt other examples), to cover any and all groups who have a political, religious or social belief or beliefs that they seek to promote by force of argument, force of law, force of petition, force of publication (especially on the Internet--which the House bill declares has: "aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens." Thus, as you can see, this bill, by virtue of its carefully wrought, precise and specific language, has the great benefit of actually requiring the Commission to examine all individuals or organizations who "use, plan to use or threaten to use" force to promote their "political, religious or social beliefs." Which would include, as I read it, every single (or married) person, couple, parents, party, organization, group, federal, state or local agency, legislature, court, etc., in every Middlesex Village and Town, and every other state, county, city, village or unchartered geo-political organization in the nation.
Posted by:Bill W.February 3, 2008 10:50:23 PMRespond ^
Joe is typical of those described so long ago by Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Security, deserve neither Liberty nor Security."
Posted by:Just MeFebruary 5, 2008 8:55:07 PMRespond ^
I find the peripatetic nature of these commissions very clever and subtle. Of course the Bill will go through. When lauched there will national press / TV brou ha ha... then it will be down to local comment ... and it will be locally based McCarthyism, unrestrained by national exposure and examination. It will go on dripping like acid into local communities. 350 Mn citizens , now how many eco freaks, sierra club wilderness mavericks, plain ornery hill billies, hustler, drug growers, petty crooks, wife cheaters, snake oil salesmen will be rooted out ? 1 Mn. is a low number - lock up 10 and no-one will give a damn. First they came for the Jews ....
Posted by:ZizFebruary 10, 2008 1:51:37 PMRespond ^
oops that's 10 percent....
Posted by:zizFebruary 10, 2008 1:52:02 PMRespond ^
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Posted by:gndhtgntnhnFebruary 17, 2008 6:19:04 AMRespond ^
in canada, people are not falling out the windows, dying in crashes, or disappearing. not yet. but once we obtain a second party in US will things turn ugly for peace activists? i think not. if some of the activists begin to go to hell in various ways, activists could retaliate also in various ways.
i'm 96. so, soon i'm going there anyhow. but that's ok, folks. hell's been around so long it has cooled down suficiently to suit everbody. i'm not accepting anything but hell. by the way, we have a two party system in canda. the second party does lotsof talking; the first party lostof doings how long can one country like US put up with two parties, i don't know; maybe a few weeks? who knows, we'll see?
nader may get between 5-15% of votes. good start. PS if i'm syntactically wrong here,there,anywhere, remember i have finished last in my class. even my wife calls me stupid. thank you
Posted by:bozhidar bob balkasApril 8, 2008 1:37:31 PMRespond ^
On February 12, 2002, 63 Racine, MN residents from a town of 290 showed up at their city council meeting to bring their concerns about a public safety hazard in their midst. They were invited to bring these concerns because within a five month period of time there were two tiger attacks, two lions and a liger out killing livestock, pets...and stalking hunters. And then a bear escaped and ripped apart a four season porch trying to get into a farmhouse. Police reports were being falsified to protect the facility and people wanted things to change. The first thing the Mayor did was call after calling the meeting to order was to announce that anyone who attempted to speak would be escorted out of the room by the Deputy in the back. A woman rose to speak and the Deputy was called to retrieve her. The local Sheriff's Department, which sent the deputy, wouldn't take complaints of civil rights violations, and the FBI seems to have lost all of the evidence of county corruption submitted by the residents....who wanted their civil rights preserved. Instead, the system punished the citizens by branding two of them "terrorists" and "whacks" when they were attempting to organize a peaceful meeting so residents could at least record their concerns. As it turns out, the facility was part of a government operation, illegal I might add, and so the NSA had been monitoring and undermining citizens safety and rights in order to protect the place: all in the name of National Security. There are a string of bizarre circumstances that have taken place in this "corridor" of the US, including denial of the memo that warned about the 911 attacks,ignoring of Massoui's activities at flight school, and the fact (accdng to an FBI Agent) that all 11 hijackers came through the Rochester MN International Airport within a year of the attacks. Things are not as they appear and, as evidenced by events in the tiny town of Racine, MN, we are becoming a police state in the name of "National Security".
Posted by:Mary HartmanApril 13, 2008 9:44:26 AMRespond ^

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