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Don't Know Much About History

Commentary: The Pentagon looks back to four great empires for tips on how to rule the world.

August 4, 2008


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In the summer of 2002, the Pentagon's Office of Net Assessment (ONA) published an 85-page monograph called "Military Advantage in History". Unusual for an office that is headed by Andrew Marshall, the Pentagon's "futurist in chief," the study looks back to the past—way back. It examines four empires, or "pivotal hegemonic powers in history," to draw lessons about how the United States "should think about maintaining military advantage in the 21st century." Though unclassified, the study was held close to the vest; a stamp on the cover limits its dissemination without permission. Mother Jones obtained it only through a Freedom of Information Act request. Though the report is far from revelatory, it provides a window into a mindset that unselfconsciously envisions the United States as the successor to some of history's most powerful empires.

The study looks a little like a high school text book, devoting chapters to Alexander the Great, Imperial Rome, Genghis Khan, and Napoleonic France and citing texts by Sun Tzu, Livy, and Jared Diamond. It attempts to break down exactly how historic empires sustained their military might across continents and even centuries. The study posits that the historical examples offer "insights into what drives U.S. military advantage," as well as "where U.S. vulnerabilities may lie, and how the United States should think about maintaining its military advantage in the future." There is no one secret to world domination, however. The Mongols' military advantage was rooted in their "tactical and operational superiority"; the Macedonians' in the "exceptional leadership" of and "cult of personality" surrounding Alexander the Great; Napoleon's in "innovative operational concepts" and "information superiority"; and the Romans' in "robust tactical doctrine" and "strong domestic institutions" which were "designed to incorporate conquered peoples as the empire grew." In an extraordinary passage, the study cites the Roman experience—from over a millennium ago—as a precedent for America's long-term dominance: "The Roman model suggests that it is possible for the United States to maintain its military advantage for centuries if it remains capable of transforming its forces before an opponent can develop counter-capabilities. Transformation coupled with strong strategic institutions is a powerful combination for an adversary to overcome."

The report's language is jargon laden and opaque—a lance used by Macedonian horsemen is referred to as a "primary weapon system." That may be due to the methodology of "net assessment," a fancy term for the ONA's approach to analyzing complicated real-world situations that is rooted in systems analysis and game theory. Military author James Dunnigan compares it to engineering. "You take apart historical events, reassemble them as a simulation, and then tinker with the simulation until you can recreate the historical event accurately," he explains. "What that allows you to do is play out 'what if?' situations: What if Napoleon did this? What if Ghengis Khan did that?"

While the study was produced under the auspices of the ONA, its five authors work for government intelligence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, and they wrote the study as part of a contract for the Defense Department's Information Assurance Technology Analysis Center. Booz Allen won a 10-year, $200 million cost-plus contract to establish and "host" that center in 1998. (In May, the Carlyle Group announced it will be taking over Booz Allen's government services arm.)

The original idea for the study predates the Bush administration. Mark Herman, the Booz Allen vice president and war-game designer who is the study's lead author, recalls being asked to give a presentation on historical empires at one of Andrew Marshall's famous "summer studies" at the Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island, in 1999. At that annual retreat, experts from government, academia, and beyond are invited to contemplate a big-picture question. Newt Gingrich, for example, participated in the 1999 program, according to Herman. He says that the ONA "liked the presentation so much they felt it should be written down" and expanded. A earlier version of the report, titled "Sustaining Military Dominance: Examples From Ancient History," was presented at the 2001 summer study and was later cited in a Maureen Dowd column. The current version was published a year later.

Coming out of the Office of Net Assessment, the study's theme of military transformation is not surprising. Described by the Washington Post as "an obscure but highly influential unit," the ONA was established as an in-house think tank in 1973. Its founding director was Marshall, a strategist who achieved demigod status in the press after years of colorful profiles portraying him as a visionary. (A 2002 article in the New York Times Magazine named Marshall the "Yoda of the Rumsfeld Defense Department"; William Safire dubbed him "the freshest mind in the Puzzle Palace.") ONA specializes in trend spotting and forecasting military threats. The office spent the 1980s exhaustively studying the US-Soviet balance; recently, it has turned to topics as diverse as neuropharmacology, Islamic warfare, and the national security implications of climate change.

Now in his 80s, Marshall has been a chief proponent of the so-called Revolution in Military Affairs, a cause also championed by Donald Rumsfeld that emphasizes speed and increased use of precision weapons and advanced communications technology. In 2001, Marshall was given a high-profile assignment by Rumsfeld to conduct an extensive review of the military and the possibilities of military transformation.

Most striking is how the study conceives of the United States in imperial terms. "You'll see some neoconservatives at the beginning of the Bush administration crowing that 'we do have an empire, let's just come out of the closet and say we do,'" said Ivan Eland, the author of a book on America's "informal empire" and the director of the Center on Peace & Liberty at the Independent Institute, on hearing a description of the study. "But the administration never did that because empire doesn't sell well with the public." After reviewing the study at Mother Jones' request, William Hartung, director of the Arms and Security Initiative at the New America Foundation, said he was struck by its "arrogance and immorality." "The presumption that the United States should rule the world, sword at the ready, for the foreseeable future is an unacceptable basis for a just, even-handed foreign policy."

Even coming from an office vaunted for its intellectual seriousness, "Military Advantage in History" often reads like it was meant as window dressing for the Revolution in Military Affairs agenda—sometimes at the expense of historical fact. (Herman says that the theme of transformation emerged naturally from his research.) After reviewing a section that identifies five discrete "transformations" of the Roman military over a period of 1,000 years, Lee Brice of Western Illinois University, president of the Society of Ancient Military Historians, described it as "so completely incorrect as to be useless." In general, Brice noted, "it is inappropriate to apply modern concepts of systems theory, doctrine, and strategy to ancient armies. That required a level of planning and centralization that simply did not exist."

Eland speculates that a study like this would "get warped by the military-industrial-congressional complex into more money for weapons." Furthermore, he says, it ignores the economic implications of military expansion. "The Office of Net Assessment is doing this to show, 'Well, gee, these other empires transformed themselves, they were successful, we need to do the same thing,'" Eland says. "Well that's going to cost big bucks, and that will cause economic overstretch. People say it can't happen to us since we have such a big economy, but every empire has said that." It is unclear how the study has been used; the Office of Net Assessment declined a request for an interview. Herman says only that "a whole bunch of [copies] went out to the government."

The idea that contemporary society can or should try to find direct guidance in the past has been assailed by some historians. The American historian Bernard Bailyn wrote of "an obvious kind of presentism, which at its worst becomes indoctrination by historical example." But the ONA study charges ahead, plumbing the past for contemporary lessons. An extraordinary color-coded table in the study's conclusion attempts to literally "map" the historical findings to the United States with an eye toward "enduring dominance." (See image above.)

Several historians who reviewed the study differed on its quality and meaning. Walter Scheidel, a Stanford professor of classics and the coauthor of a forthcoming survey of ancient empires, called it "a successful distillation of relevant information and scholarship complemented by very interesting systematic analysis." Others found the scholarship to be shoddy and superficial. Pamela Crossley, a Dartmouth historian who teaches on the Mongols, described the chapter on Genghis Khan as mostly "an accumulation of popularly transmitted misconceptions." She also noted the study's "amazingly strange spelling 'Chengis.'" Brice, the ancient military historian, said the text suffered from "an intense, myopic habit of wanting to make the ancient world fit into modern stereotypes." He compares it with "much lower-undergraduate-level work."

Justin Elliott, a former senior fellow at Mother Jones, is news editor at Talking Points Memo.



 

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Comments:

actually, the 'chengis' spelling resembles many of the possible alternate transliterations of genghis khan's name, including 'chinggis' the preferred version of the mongolian government. let's keep our criticisms to something substantial, like the content of the report, rather than attempting to discredit it on what could simply be the confusion over differing standards. mother jones should be loath to print such vapid comments.
Posted by:williamAugust 4, 2008 4:56:51 PMRespond ^
I personally have no problem with the US as empire in the abstract. But George Bush is no Augustas.
Posted by:MNPunditAugust 4, 2008 7:47:20 PMRespond ^
Reminds me of a RAND pamphlet I once saw about "swarm" tactics, attributed to Genghis Khan and other historical armies and leaders listed here. It touted the smaller, lighter, but well-informed armed forces that Rumsfeld was hoping to build as SecDef
Posted by:Antenna ClasisAugust 4, 2008 8:17:07 PMRespond ^
How does a nation in a $9trillion hole rule the world? Just Askin'
Posted by:MikeNearMcChordAugust 5, 2008 9:42:48 AMRespond ^
So the resounding financial and civilian-controlling failure that was the Iraq War proves that we're nowhere near able to conquer countries, and some of these guys want more with Iran? What do you think happened to the rest of these Empires, fellas?
Posted by:JimAugust 5, 2008 1:41:02 PMRespond ^
Perhaps the American people should begin to study past revolutions
Posted by:JacobAugust 5, 2008 2:54:28 PMRespond ^
Thank you for the article. I found it enlightening, particularly the points you raise regarding the use of inexact and/or incorrect historical analogies to service otherwise politically despicable goals (i.e., military domination of the planet? WTF). Also, per MikeNearMcChord's comment, I truly wonder why the military obsessed fan-boys never take those numbers into account. $3 trillion required for the Iraq debacle would feed, clothes and provide clean water to a lot of the planet's destitute people. Apologies for the soapbox.
Posted by:Gary PierceAugust 5, 2008 3:34:37 PMRespond ^
I think Kanye West had it wrong, its not that George Bush doesn't care about black people - it's that every single person in his administration cares about no one and nothing, except power of course. I wonder if they got the idea of giving citizenship to illegals that join the army from one of these ancient war obsessed empires. Or maybe Nero gave Bush the idea to burn down one of his own cities (re: Twin Towers) and then blame it on the Christians (re: Islamic Terrorists). These PFNAC neo cons are sociopaths to the point that it probably embarrasses most people in insane asylums right now. I truly hope justice is served on all of the Reagan, Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, Rove and Rumsfeld crowd - if not in this life than the next.
Posted by:ColeAugust 5, 2008 5:19:01 PMRespond ^
I've always said that our destruction of Fallujah would have been much more effective if we crucified the population along the roads into Baghdad.
Posted by:Brendan M.August 5, 2008 6:17:26 PMRespond ^
They need to look at recent history for lessons. America brought down the British Empire through 'guerilla' tactics. The VC fought off the Americans [and the French] with "guerilla" tactics. The Taliban, Al Quiada, the Iraqi insurgents have fought off our military with "guerilla" tactics. Seems they learned more from our history than we have.
Posted by:Lloyd WalshAugust 5, 2008 7:01:42 PMRespond ^
"But the decline of Rome was the natural and inevitable effect of immoderate greatness. Prosperity ripened the principle of decay; the causes of destruction multiplied with the extent of conquest; and as soon as time or accident had removed the artificial supports, the stupendous fabric yielded to the pressure of its own weight. The story of its ruin is simple and obvious; and instead of inquiring why the Roman empire was destroyed, we should rather be surprised that it had subsisted so long."--Edward Gibbon
"All glory is fleeting."--Roman slave
Posted by:John SullivanAugust 5, 2008 7:40:24 PMRespond ^
At one point, when the Romans conquered a nation or state, they put in a real governor, perhaps a propraetor, who stayed and ruled the conquered peoples. He had power, and he used many of the nobles of the province or state as slaves. But the Romans also built acqueducts and roads, and civilized them with courts and laws and revived trade and, in this way, brought the territories into the Roman Empire. This is not the U.S. style and therefore the U.S. couldn't really assemble an Empire as coherent as the Romans. The U.S. tradition is to let locals run things, because we have no infrastructure to really control that which we may conquer militarily. That's why we supported dictators like Hussen and the Shah, etc.
Posted by:OCPatriotAugust 5, 2008 8:36:34 PMRespond ^
It makes me ashamed to have fought in Iraq for America
Posted by:billyAugust 5, 2008 8:44:34 PMRespond ^
It sounds like the neocons were trying to learn from the past without actually asking anyone who knew something about it. Kind of like the approach to planning the Iraq invasion.
I refuse to call it a war. It was an unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation followed by an unwelcome occupation.
Posted by:Michael August 5, 2008 10:52:03 PMRespond ^
4th Reich, anyone? Are we sure we want our country to become Vatican City / Rome a few hundred years from now, after we have 'conquered' the world. It worked out so well for the Romans! Hey, didn't they worship Apollo and Zeus and stuff? Hey, lets do that too! I wonder if I can get a $200 Million dollar grant to study that?
Posted by:Total BoondoggleAugust 6, 2008 12:38:05 AMRespond ^
You don't need apologize: you are right.
Posted by:Frenchy9August 6, 2008 12:42:19 AMRespond ^
Since the very definition of empire implies hegemony and domination, I deplore the possibility that America has become even remotely close to such a thing. If we are to survive and succed, we need to become a willing participant in the administration and handling of world affairs as a co-participant with other nations - not a force that dictates its direction.
Posted by:brokensoldierAugust 6, 2008 1:51:39 AMRespond ^
It is an interesting selection. Equally interesting that the attempts at global rule through credit extension based on raw materials access and control, sea-power enforced tribute systems are excluded from public view. It would be interesting to know what they thought about Venice, Spain, Holland and Britain and what the strong points and weak points of each were.

Posted by:ChrisAugust 6, 2008 8:38:21 AMRespond ^
They obviously missed the part about how all of these empires fell...
Posted by:Heidi ReneeAugust 6, 2008 8:43:19 AMRespond ^
Is it so hard just to live in peace? Imperialism is overrated.
Posted by:SupAugust 6, 2008 9:06:58 AMRespond ^
what a great shame for american people that their great president kidnapped a very poor and weak woman of pakistan without any valid reason bad bush
Posted by:pervaiz_aamerAugust 6, 2008 10:32:09 AMRespond ^
A lot of good it did them. The Neocons have demonstrated themselves as a rather stupid bunch. You'd think they never were in school. The only thing they've demonstrated a knack for is fascism at home.
Posted by:RolandAugust 6, 2008 10:32:46 AMRespond ^
The suggestion that the Roman experience show that one can maintain empire over centuries if the army constantly keeps ahead of its opponents militarily is historically ludicrous. Please suggest to the Pentagon people that Rome remained a successful state because it commanded allegiances of considerable segments of the populations behind its borders. Rome survived because it was able to mobilize resources for the defense of an impossible frontier from a population which had more or less accepted its rule and was happy to be part of the game. There is little that the US empire with its projection of power beyond its frontiers can learn from what was in effect domestic policy. Rome did not survive on legions but on a steady diet of integration and consensus building.

Read Clifford Ando on Provincial loyalty and Anthony Kaldellis' latest book on Hellenism in Byzantium. Both books demonstrate the effectiveness of these mechanisms of consensus building.
Posted by:dimikAugust 6, 2008 11:26:10 AMRespond ^
The Dalai Lama said killing your enemies is an outdated idea.

Does the "Kill Machine" aka the Pentagon know that?!
Posted by:Bill Rohan SrAugust 6, 2008 1:57:05 PMRespond ^
sound advice
Posted by:T.JeffersonAugust 6, 2008 2:32:31 PMRespond ^
You don't think that that is happening now?
Posted by:CortneyAugust 6, 2008 2:32:33 PMRespond ^
You've got to hand it to the Pentagon and the neocons. They have been and are making a lot of mistakes but they're also doing a lot of things right. Just look at the state of America. We've been a colonial power almost from the beginning. We've started wars for over a hundred years now and fooled our populace into believing they were just (excl. WWII). Now we're the pre-emininant neo-colonial power. We've invaded two nations, subverted the Constitution, made torture legal, made the US more fascist than anytime in history, we spend more on military than all other countries combined, .... come on. The cold war ended over a decade ago. Yet each year we spend billions more on war. Yes, we are an empire. Empires should be relegated to history. Or else we'll see death in the billions.
Posted by:nakisAugust 6, 2008 2:33:59 PMRespond ^


One item is glaringly lacking in the cursory and self-serving report from the Pentagon's hired history hacks. Those stooges fronting for empire seemed to have completely forgotten the object lesson that history teaches us and one our founders recognized and repeatedly warned us about; empires are lethal to republics!

Cicero and other Roman statesmen tried to warn their countrymen of this danger (read Erik Hildinger's Swords Against the Senate) but as Chalmers Johnson and others have described the militaristic demands of empire consumed that great republic.

Jefferson, Madison and Washington passed the same concerns to American posterity but it was a general much closer to our time than theirs, Eisenhower, who warned us of the toxic threat of militarism and power to the health and longevity of democratic republicanism.

You can have empire and you can have republic...but you can't have both.

Sic semper imperium!!


Posted by:cliokistAugust 6, 2008 5:17:27 PMRespond ^
I don't think the folks in power care what's going to happen after they die. They just want to get as much money as they can now. Short term profit trumps all logic.
Posted by:MoneyGAugust 6, 2008 5:51:12 PMRespond ^
So what ! Only through study of the past can we hope to know anything of the future. This is taught in schools all over the world...someone at "Mother Jones" was gazing out the window when this occurred in their life. Instead of playing "Gotchya" you could try some unbiased critical journalism...haven't seen much of it in the States fo' some time.
Posted by:dedsetmadAugust 6, 2008 5:53:46 PMRespond ^
None of these ideas are new. for most of the world, you know, the people that are usually referred to as the “Anti American crowd” the once that have been at the receiving end of Americans greed and lies like sending aids workers only to spy like talking about human right whilst conducting unspeakable crimes in secret labs inside and out side America (it always astonishes me how even amongst so called progressives they are more outraged if such crimes are competed inside America as suppose to out side America) none of this is new.

We in Iran understood that when the country that was suppose to defend the right of the people against vested (monarchial) interest deposed our prime-minister and imposed their own will on our people (the shah). Every nation on the face of the earth has its own story of how they ware cheated by the western powers.

Now the question is my brethrens is this. Will you be willing to stand –up your big fat asses and fight?????
Or, are you just a lying cheating twofaced blabber moth like your governments.
I know the answer.
Posted by:bahmanAugust 6, 2008 6:01:13 PMRespond ^
There is an ancient proverb: "We do not see the world as it is; we see it as we are."

Those who wish to find justifications for diverting humankind's wealth from developmental investment to debilitating spending could read "The Three Pigs" and find more and quicker ways to slaughter the wolf. They would get the pigs to pay for it, and sacrifice their piglets to do the dirty, wet-work of it. They would propagandize to get the surviving pigs to tolerate the injustice to the innocents in the wolf's community caught in the crossfire and backlash.

Of course they could read "Alice In Wonderland" too and find someone or something to designate as 'the wolf' and use the same ways and means preconceived for destruction to assault it too, and all on the back of the designated 'pigs.'

Another proverb: "When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." When war is your heritage, and you don't really know your true heritage, just the glorified version, 'sanitized' of the bloody truth, war looks like a pretty good idea. "Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself."

Can you imagine where humankind could be had the Nazis not won WWII? Their influence in 'the west' and 'the east' kept a 'Cold War' going for half a century. Not just any half-century, but one where humankind made great strides in developmental aspects of every stripe. But their greed is so great every stride became a tool for conquest, for domination, for covert manipulation of commerce, government, education, manufacturing, agriculture, science, religion, culture, music, art, media, writing and publishing fiction and nonfiction, finance, insurance, real estate, military, industry, intelligence, politics and organized crime. This military-industrial- political-intelligence-underworld complex is so greedy, fighting over this ball of mud, misleading the poor to war against each other around the planet, we will probably be engaged in conflict when cosmic circumstances doom us, with too little reaction time, too late to enable survival of the curious little creature, humankind.

It's a shame we can't find leaders to lead us developmentally, to defend representative Constitutional democracy from fascism, entrenched and unapologetic for its misleadership of the human race headlong into hell. War is hell. Not 'like' hell. Hell.

It is no surprise to find the hammers made nails of the data, fitting it to their agenda, and themselves to the description of the enemies of humankind, fascist.

I recently heard that other nations don't consider the U. S. a 'real nation' because it hasn't had its second revolution. I'm not sure the fascists would tolerate revolution. Rather, it would be their excuse to nullify the Constitution, as is done with the secret "Alito Veto," Presidential 'signing statements' that covertly nullify the Congress, arrogating power to the "Unitary Executive."

We are deep in a revolution, but no revolutionary has ever faced an enemy so empowered, with its primary weapon system being data, and the competence of supercomputers to collect, process, and analyze it, as programmed by the hammers, who will find their nails in the net assessment and hammer them down.
Posted by:Gary E. AndrewsAugust 6, 2008 6:27:35 PMRespond ^
As a grad student standing at the base of a seemingly giant ivory tower, I was especially intrigued by the rift between federal contractors and professors that emerged in this article. It's of little surprise to me that the feds have lower intellectual standards than specialists in the field, but it makes me wont of a new system where scholars themselves would be contracted to do this work.

As we all know, the W. administration has been deeply scornful of expertise, preferring hack idealogues to do their bidding. Hopefully Obama will help turn this nightmare ship around.
Posted by:Jeremy Bearer-FriendAugust 6, 2008 9:22:37 PMRespond ^
" for America's long-term dominance..."??? America has been dominate for barely 60 years, hardly an empire. The ONA is nothing but a bunch of small men with delusions of grandor. The British Empire, the Spanish, even the Ottoman Empire presisted for several hundred years. And the one common element of all the empires in history? That of course would be the eventual downfall...
Posted by:MichaelAugust 6, 2008 9:27:39 PMRespond ^
Remember that when Eisenhower first used the term "military-industrial complex",it was the pentagon's term for the Hitler's Nazi party.
Posted by:David SweeneyAugust 6, 2008 10:23:09 PMRespond ^
If America is bent of taking over the world, why did we not claim Iraq for ourselves? Why haven't we touched their oil? Why did we insist on helping these people develop their own government? This has cost us greatly and it has been an honorable undertaking.
Posted by:toonmakerAugust 6, 2008 11:10:04 PMRespond ^
Why would you want to rule the world? And how does the military solve civic problems, legislate, and gain money for it's goals? Is the ideal world one giant military institution where everything is regulated?
Posted by:Mizark YoungAugust 7, 2008 12:33:18 AMRespond ^
Note- Chingis Khan is how the name of Genghis Khan is spoken and written in Eastern Cultures. He was originally called Temujin.

Macedonian/Alexander’s Empire – Alexander was driven by revenge(against Persia’s historic aggression) and desire for grandeur(to surpass the achievements of Philip, his father, and achieve greatness equal of the myth of Hercules). He over extended himself and created an Empire that did not survive past his own death, greed imploded it(his Generals, already rivals during Alexander’s life, became self-imposed Monarchs of their own private kingdoms in constant competition with each other). Alexander could not be defeated by Armies but was defeated by Syphilis.

Roman Empire – Rome’s rise to power is due to several previous Regional Powers. Greek City States and their Colonies, the Etruscan people, Latin people(origin of the language), potential influence of the ancient city of Troy, and the Phoenicians which extended trade and their culture across the Mediterranean and likely helped create written Greek language which expanded that culture’s influence over the region. The Phoenicians likely founded the future city and nation of Carthage which successfully invaded Roman territory under the leadership of Hannibal. It is not surprising Rome is described as the historical predecessor of the US considering the similarities of Colonialism leading to its creation. Worshipping violence(as many Romans did) has rarely had positive results. Sacrifices to the God of War were always common. From brutal blood sports(the Gladiator competitions) to Civil War.

Julius Caesar conquered Gaul not through issuing citizenships but through brutality against the local population leading to massacres and enslavement of 1,000s of people. Garrisons were set up to control the areas afterwards.

The Romans “prepared for war” as the famous quote goes, and frequently turned their Javelins, Spears, Arrows, and Swords on their own people. Before Rome “officially” became an Empire ruled by 1 Emperor it saw years of brutal infighting involving 1 Roman Legion against another Roman Legion. Driven by greed and lust for power Roman leaders(Senators and Provincial Governors and future Triumvirs) saw nothing wrong with sending their men to kill each other, and who was able to mount a better attack or defense survived the “political” struggle. Rome quite frequently would try to bite off more than it could chew. Losing battles to Germanic, Persian, and Hun Armies. Refugees from the North and Nomadic Warriors from Central Asia eventually overwhelmed Rome, and it collapsed under its own weight.

Genghis Khan’s Empire - The Mongol Empire that came from Genghis Khan’s conquests was a result of constant war between Central Asian people, the unified Mongol people, perhaps once numbering in the millions in the region were almost completely devastated and bled dry over 3 centuries of warfare leaving behind small and powerless groups. They may have been fierce warriors but an Empire could not be sustained with their available resources. The Mongol Horde was known for its brutality, something the US should not copy.

Napoleonic France – To analyze Napoleon’s long term planning one must only analyze Napoleon’s not so successful invasion of Russia which cost him 80% of his Army. Having suffered defeat he was never able to recover what he had lost and France has not had any significant military victories since Napoleon was defeated.

I am surprised China is not mentioned. China has had several cycles of decline and growth and occupation, but it has only grown stronger since its creation. None of the above Empires has survived as long as China.
Posted by:Alexander MakedonskyAugust 7, 2008 3:40:08 AMRespond ^
I've often heard voices decrying our failure to learn the lessons of history, and the military is often derided for fighting the last war. Then, when they try to do exactly that, they get slammed for being "immoral."

There are some things worse than war. Try losing one.
Posted by:Erik ChristiansenAugust 7, 2008 4:52:09 AMRespond ^
Having both a background in the military and a graduate degree in history I'm not so sure either side really understands the other. One thing for certain though, historians from my experience tend to be horrible when it comes to their understanding of the military. They are tremendously deficient in their understanding of the necessity of training, junior leadership, tactical or operational matters and so on. Military history is a field filled with rank amateurs.

You've done well to pick out some real nobodies when it comes to assessing this study. Wm Hartung? When did this amateur become an 'expert'?

Seriously, next time get some real experienced and knowledgeable 'experts'. Lazy friggin' journalism, you really missed the boat on this one.
Posted by:FBAugust 7, 2008 7:13:53 AMRespond ^
It's quite easy. Our debt load ration, debt as a percentage of GDP is lower than Japan's and about the level of Germany and France's. It's not the total number of the debt that's important, it's the relationship to the GDP that is.

In other words if you make 100,000 dollars a year and you're 65,000 in debt that ain't really to bad. And that is the debt ratio we have.

The sky is falling, but it's not the National Debt that's doing it.
Posted by:FBAugust 7, 2008 7:16:33 AMRespond ^
''Posted by:Alexander Makedonsky''

Thanks for the huge tome, I bet you're a real treat at parties.
Posted by:KGBAugust 7, 2008 7:19:13 AMRespond ^
Sure, it's like much undergraduate thinking. but so is u.s. politics. kurt vonnegut's never to be forgotten
observation that u.s. politics is like u.s. high school. so is u.s. foreign politics; and the u.s. adversarial system like football.
stupid, primitive, but effective and worthless. pragmatism run haywire.
Posted by:michael roloffAugust 7, 2008 7:37:27 AMRespond ^
Rome, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, and Napoleon as exemplars. Thomas Jefferson would have been so proud! Wasn't he recalled as Ambassador to France because he hated Napoleon so much? I hardly this Roome is what was meant by a 'shining city on a hill'.

I've read some of this sort of stuff. Shallow, vapid, stupid scholarship. A few citations from Sun Tzu, a reference to ancient Rome and Bob's your uncle.
Posted by:BrockAugust 7, 2008 8:49:44 AMRespond ^
I thought the article fair and balanced reporting. The subject under discussion however, seems to be confusing many. In truth, are there any historical precedents for what the USA faces today? Reasonable people feel contingency planning is acceptable, even if the subjects of such planning make us uncomfortable.

Since 1989 the USA and its European franchise have found themselves with the' wrong kind' of forces. The difficulty lies in trying to decide what kind of world we think we are currently in and what armed forces are required to match against need. In fact, as the think tanks are demonstrating, no one knows. But what a lucrative field in which to find oneself. How I wish someone would pay me oodles of dosh to day dream. I suppose they could always ask Mr Steven Spielberg or Mr George Lucas for their thoughts, though I sense the Pentagon already gets lots inspiration for gadgets - and all their political thinking - watching their productions as things are.
Posted by:Barry LarkingAugust 7, 2008 9:00:59 AMRespond ^
Nor is Obama -- Caligula does come to mind, however
Posted by:Audacious AardvarkAugust 7, 2008 9:04:42 AMRespond ^
Indeed, Rome gave citizenship to barbarians who served 20 years or more as auxiliaries, frequently as cavalrymen, and in life and death situations they even freed slaves if they would fight.
Posted by:J. P. WARDAugust 7, 2008 9:44:30 AMRespond ^
The article, as did the study although hard to tell from the amount of description, seems to have missed the point that the U.S. "empire," if you want to call it that, is very differently organized than the empires mentioned. For one thing, re Rome the U.S. has never even come close to blithely imposing the sort of hegemony that Augustus considered utterly normal on a conquered people.

That aside the article was thought provoking.
Posted by:SullyAugust 7, 2008 9:49:04 AMRespond ^
My bad. . . except in the case of the Native Americans during and since the conquest of the U.S. itself.
Posted by:SullyAugust 7, 2008 9:54:27 AMRespond ^
Sully: I concur entirely. What do the systems examined have in common? They were autocracies, impelled by brutally imperialistic and hegemonic motives, and willing to embrace very cruel methods.

I doubt the U.S. is prepared to order, for example, the crucifixion of the entire population of the Sunni Triangle (that'll learn 'em!), or the transportation of the residual population of Pashtun Afghanistan to New Mexico, there to labour as slaves until totally assimilated.

George W. has his moments, too, but I've never heard that he thought himself a god, or that there was a movement afoot to make him one. For what its worth, if we are looking for a pretext for mass crucifixtion that would work -- make him a god, set up statues of him in the streets of Kandahar and Baghdad and expect the locals to get on their knees.

Like it or not, there is really only one comparison for the U.S. 'empire' -- inhibited in the same fashion, faced by similar challenges, impelled by the same motives. Its the British Empire, stupid.
Posted by:BrockAugust 7, 2008 10:07:56 AMRespond ^
"Only the Dead have seen the end of war!" Whether we like it or not, the military is necessary for self defense. The end of the cold war made us the only super power for the time being. But 9/11 showed that we are still vulnerable to the few. Also major nations like Iran can pose threats to the stability of peace and can be a threat to the lives of the many.
Posted by:Caius MariusAugust 7, 2008 10:58:23 AMRespond ^
The idea of looking at history with from a military perspective is indeed interesting because what it will ultimately reveal is the inability of the military to control that which it dominates by purely military means—in the US today the cost of the military is totally undermining the social structure of the country and consequently the stability of nation—yet the argument for this ever growing spending on the military, which is undermining our national security is national security. The way that problem of instability is answered is the ever increasing methods of control (spying on the public) and imprisonment, as opposed to solving social issues by cutting back on the military expenditure and actually investing in our society—thus we seem to be creating the conditions that will ultimately lead to domestic uprisings or revolutions. It is too bad that this book on military history doesn't examine this aspect of the military or perhaps it does—I haven't read it.

Still it strikes me that there is a place for such books, sometimes they are even interesting. Books that choose to see the development of some key aspect of society are quite good—like say Naval Power, or the interesting book, “The Prize” which looks at the history of the late 19th century and the entire history of the twentieth century through the eyes of the oil business is a great book or as an antithesis consider Joseph Nye's Why Military Power isn't enough—a very excellent book. One can view history through the veil of religions or philosophy or invention or politics or cultures or art or a synthesis of these, like say the subject matter embodied in the history of ideas. That this one is “military” doesn't seem particularly damning just so long as the reader is capable of keeping an open mind that this “military” aspect is but a perspective. Still if this book really is academically flawed it will simply fail and no matter how much flap-jawing the Pentagon does will not make the book a good one if it fails the test of academic acceptance.

Each military power whose dominance is built upon military force succumbs to decay because its world view is not a human one but rather one of master-slave. One would have hoped that the harsh reality of WWII would have served as a reminder of war's insanity, especially the horrid meaning of Hiroshima and Nagasaki—but today we have a man in the White House who parades around exclaiming with childlike joy, “I'm a war president”. Obviously history means little in terms of teaching us lessons because had we examined Vietnam and the consequences of it we would not have answered the 9/11 terrorist assault with war but rather we would have locked down certain aspects of our society—airports, harbors, trains, buses, transport of dangerous materials, our power plants and nuclear power plants etc. and then gone to our friends and allies and trading partners and the UN and accumulated data in regards to who might be funding these individuals behind the attacks and to then proceed to take these individuals out in a very public manner via a world court. If the reaction to this court proved to be too negative (because it turned out that 9/11 was “popular” then it might be best to drop the court and to take out these individuals the old fashion silent—accidental way—like Mr. X died today. Apparently he broke his neck while drinking his tea—he must have gotten a tough crumpet.
Posted by:kirilovslogicAugust 7, 2008 2:22:45 PMRespond ^
It is curious that four out of the four cases selected for review were contiguous empires, formed by expanding overland from the home base. Not one was an overseas empire like those typical of the modern period (the Spanish, Portuguese, French, British, Dutch and Japanese empires) and like the US sphere of influence today. One possible reason, between the lines, is that the book's origin was a popular oral presentation (presumably shorter than one hour, less than say 8,000 words) i.e. as much as any novice wanted to digest at one sitting.
Posted by:Don PhillipsonAugust 7, 2008 2:33:54 PMRespond ^
Umm. Russia could wipe out our country in a matter of hours. China probably could too. Our military superiority is not unchallenged. U.S. ability to conquer other nations or otherwise project its power is only possible by the acquiesence of the other great powers. So lets not get so "we're as great as Rome".
Posted by:JustinAugust 7, 2008 2:46:13 PMRespond ^
Interesting article and monograph.

What I find most interesting of all is the exclusion of the most apposite empire for study by the US military - the British Empire. Lots to learn on how to run an empire successfully on the cheap for so long.

Maybe this is because the US was so dedicated for so long to dismantling the British Empire and when finally given the perfect opportunity in 1940 eviscerated Great Britain financially. So when 1945 rolled around the UK could no longer even afford the illusion of continuing the Empire so started to dismantle it forthwith.

As the US has discovered the hard way it's not that easy running an empire. Whether its a formal one or an informal one.
Posted by:j mcconnellAugust 7, 2008 3:05:31 PMRespond ^
What strikes me is the meaninglessness of the attached chart. And why are the listed empires Macedonia, Romans, Mongols and "Napoleon". Wouldn't that be "France"?
Posted by:Geoff HAugust 7, 2008 3:47:16 PMRespond ^
It's a strange kind of empire that protects the world's trade routes on its own dime, leads the world in aid, is first to a natural disaster to provide aid, and defers to the national wishes of countries it "occupies." A strange empire, truly.
Posted by:keishia jonesAugust 7, 2008 3:50:58 PMRespond ^
I fear men like Mr. Pierce and other apologists for oppression whose flawed anthropology assumes that, if there were no United States, then everyone would suddenly and forever make nice. It is simply not so and to believe such is true leads to terminal languor among men and nations. Humanity is not perfectible and conflict, even in the smallest groups, is inevitable. Thus, there will always emerge a top dog. Face it: SOMEBODY is going to dominate the world because that is the way life is. Hugging one another and singing Kumbaya is not going to change that. I would prefer that dominant force to be the USA and her allied free countries. I am also and particularly impressed by the naïveté (expressed by many in these pages) that pronounces that anything other than a free people, blessed by rule of law, property rights, and free markets, can produce clean water, lots of food, and clothing on a continual and reliable basis. Capitalism succeeds in producing higher standards of living each time it is tried. Welfare, whether local or international, is a form of Socialism and produces only ignorance and lethargy among its “beneficiaries.” Socialism produces, at best, mere uniformity of mediocrity. At worst, we get North Korea, the Soviet Union, Communist China, etc.
Posted by:BambihunterAugust 7, 2008 4:39:20 PMRespond ^
"Chengis" is a perfectly legitimate alternate transliteration from the original Mongol.

Pedantic criticism.
Posted by:libarbarianAugust 7, 2008 4:55:43 PMRespond ^
Toonmaker claims that the invasion and occupation of Iraq "...has been an honorable undertaking."

Honorable? You mean honorable like:

Aggressive war (the worst war crime according to the Nuremberg Principles)?

Bush's contempt for the international laws the U.S. worked so hard to craft since World War II?

The rape of Falluja replete with the criminal use of white phosphorus?

The hideous outrages at Abu Ghraib?

The massive slaughter of civilians?

The millions of exiles?

The anger and deep disappointment of the rest of the world including many allies?

The shameful pillage of Mesopotamian antiquity while U.S. troops guarded the Iraq oil ministry building?

Honorable?

Since the beginning of civilization the record of human activity we call history tells us of the injustice, carnage, pain, and wanton destruction brought about by the proclaimed "honorable" intentions of empire after bloody empire.

The empire our military futurists aspire to will be no different. HISTORY teaches that.

The world would be a much safer and just place with a little less of the "honorable" intentions of those think the United States can or should be nation building or policing the globe.

Posted by:cliokistAugust 7, 2008 6:22:36 PMRespond ^
Brock: The British Empire model you mention is helpful. But I think we must do the same the British did 60 years ago and give up trying to lead the world. Imperialism, whether it means holding territory or "hegemony," threatens to undermine our republican form of government. The history of Rome shows that imperialism (even in the "hegemonic" form) undermines democracy by weakening the middle class and thereby undermining the ability of the bulk of the population to exercise independent judgment. The state comes to be dominated by elite factions (in late Republican Rome the Optimates and Populares), with the bulk of citizens as their "clients," rather than people who can judge for themselves. In southern Alabama, we already have poor people being paid to vote for certain candidates, with this justified by their poverty and the fact that they've "been victimized before." When people begin to think "they cheated us before, so we'll cheat them now," our democracy is threatened. We must recover our right as citizens to govern, and I think restricting the power of moneyed interests and other elements that promote imperialism (the view of America as "no. 1") is the only way we can do that. We need to settle in and live as sanely as the British and Canadians do.
Posted by:tgemberlAugust 7, 2008 6:41:58 PMRespond ^
You can be sure our current and future adversaries are doing just what the authors of this study have done. We neglect learning from the past at our peril.
Posted by:Dick Wright August 7, 2008 7:07:22 PMRespond ^
If our future "adversaries" have chosen empire then they have started the clock ticking on their own demise and we will nothing to worry about. Empires always implode.
Posted by:cliokistAugust 7, 2008 7:13:51 PMRespond ^
Useful article by Chalmers Johnson per this topic.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5688.htm
Posted by:CliokistAugust 7, 2008 7:30:36 PMRespond ^
THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS APPLIES TO EVERYTHING . ONE THING MEN LEARN FROM HISTORY , IS , THAT MEN NEVER LEARN FROM HISTORY !!
Posted by:DONAugust 7, 2008 8:28:47 PMRespond ^
Keisha. I think that is why the British Empire is the appropriate model. Especially in its later stages, it was wracked by doubts, officially directed to increasing the welfare of its subjects and preparing them for self-government. It also had difficulty dealing with challenges, the more robust 19th Century empire would have taken in stride, because it would not use the means required to meet them.

tgemberl: I don't disagree. In the end, the British Empire packed it in as a bad job. It wasn't beaten by an external challenger, or an internal threat. Brits just gave it up as a bad job & thankless task and went home. I expect that will be the ultimate fate of the American empire too.

I think that one of the more dangerous aspects of empire is that the focus shifts to external threats, and little attention is left over for the cultivation of the domestic garden. You end up doing wonderful things abroad, and then wake up one day to realise that your schools suck, your industrialists have transmorgified into rentiers, collecting profits from abroad, you've lost all sense of self and what once provide the root of your power, and on that day your realise that imperium was . . . a bad job and a thankless task.
Posted by:BrockAugust 7, 2008 10:25:40 PMRespond ^
Keishia,
Another thing to keep in mind is that imperialism isn't all bad. I think usually, empires grow at least partly because of the strengths and virtues of the imperial power. Rome grew largely because people in different parts of the Mediterranean world came to the Romans and said, "we're being oppressed. Would you help us?" Europe and Japan after WW II are probably wonderful examples of the beneficent effects of American imperialism for a time. We helped rebuild those areas. But eventually, empire undermines the governmental institutions of the imperial power. Certain individuals and groups benefit mostly from it, and the average citizen suffers. It tends to turn authoritarian eventually. I'm glad Brock brought up the British example, which shows that a people can give up empire relatively peacefully. Empires don't have to end in decline and destruction.
Posted by:tgemberlAugust 7, 2008 11:10:06 PMRespond ^
Is the spelling of Chengis a mistake?
His first name would not Dick by any chance?
Posted by:Peter Smith August 8, 2008 12:56:21 AMRespond ^
The article quotes William Hartung, director of the Arms and Security Initiative at the New America Foundation, saying, "The presumption that the United States should rule the world, sword at the ready, for the foreseeable future is an unacceptable basis for a just, even-handed foreign policy."

Well, Mr. Hartung, the fact is that SOME country is going to rule the world, sword at the ready, so I'd just as soon it be my country.
Posted by:Robert H.August 8, 2008 4:14:50 AMRespond ^
The Imperial phase of the British Empire (even that expression) came much later on than many suppose. The Empire was never planned and arose from trade and the heavy expense on a small country of defending it was never popular. If any group were responsible for the fantasy of Empire it must be surely the Liberal Imperialists – Joseph Chamberlain (Neville's father), Milner and WS Churchill – whose enthusiasm produced loathing and should correctly be remembered as the architects of the disastrous South African War 1899-1903. (a.k.a. The Boer War). Kipling, something of a spokesman and who is generally thought of as the exemplar of patriotic excess, actually (at his best) reflected on the unpopularity of the standing army.

I agree with all those here who have pointed to the very eccentric choices as models for the study of how empires breakdown. Perhaps the British are not a good example in another sense; they gave theirs away.
Posted by:Barry LarkingAugust 8, 2008 6:14:02 AMRespond ^
I read the section on that historical event on which I have expertise, albeit amateur: the campaign of Alexander the Great. I actually found it boring, partly because it's so repetitive... there are only so many times you can gushingly say that the Makedonian army succeeded because of its leaders' well-co-ordinated use of its different types of units before your reader is going to want to go back to surfing www.pothos.org. The authors don't know how to spell "hypaspist" either.
Posted by:Alexander geekAugust 8, 2008 6:16:49 AMRespond ^
The world has taken a nightmare pill. It is time to wakeup. http://www.transformationteam.net/
Posted by:Friend on KauaiAugust 8, 2008 6:31:09 AMRespond ^
I think if somebody HAS to rule the world, then let them be like the Brits, or let it be the UN. Shambolic certainly, but generally well-disposed. The worst thing that can be charged to Britain's account is probably the Amritsar 'massacre' -- about three hundred dead, all in, and all participants but one actually Indian. That's pretty small potatoes. In comparison, most of the services performed by the U.S. as hegemon were completed, no fuss, no muss, and some cases much better -- Charles Kindleberger gives the Brits much higher marks for world financial managment than the U.S. Never ceases to amaze me, as well, how huge areas of the world were held with little force. There was never, for example, more than 11,000 Britain's throughout the length and breadth of the African Empire, and not many more in India. Turbulent Somaliland was held by about fifty, all in, soup to nuts, Governor to junior Lieutenant in the Camel Corps and Assistant Director of Public Works. Massive complicity/effective collaboration was the name of the game. There's something to learn there.

I like Balfour writing about the Empire toward the end. He figured that all Empires built on force will ultimately collapse. Force only gets you so far, and you cannot make people love you, or emulate you by force. He believed that the British Empire would survive as a cultural reality long after the last outpost had been abandoned. Who can say he's wrong, particularly given that its only one generation since the last of the legions went home? The dust hasn't settled yet; a final judgement not possible. Rather unfair to compare the British, in this sense (standing at about A.D. 440) with the Romans at A.D 0).
Posted by:BrockAugust 8, 2008 8:52:57 AMRespond ^
The same can be said about Western media, on their understanding and their bias view of China.

China has a long tradition of religious freedom within a secular state. And the traditional Chinese state was the example par excellence of the ascendancy of secular power. Any religious organization that purports to challenge the authority of the secular state would be labelled as heterodox and heterodoxy was/is outlawed. There was/is no absolute religious freedom within the Chinese secular state; this is not the same as saying that there is no religious freedom in China. Many different religions are practised in China: Taoism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, and each of these have their own collections of sects as well.

Heterodoxy is defined by the state as any religious organization that oversteps religious boundaries into the political domain. Many political uprising in the past were organized by such heterodox religious bodies, and heterodox bodies, because they were outlawed, had to go underground and hence their underground network became convenient for underground political organization as well.

In the aftermath of September 11, one may perhaps suggest that a similar stance has been adopted by the Bush Administration, overtly and covertly. There is a clash between secular and heterodox religious power. Orthodox religions continue to enjoy full freedom, of course, for the definition of orthodoxy is that such religious bodies do not challenge the political status quo, do not challenge the state, do not challenge the secular state.

The current government in Beijing does not forbid the practice of Qigong, but it does outlaw the Falungang as a herodox religious body with ulterior political motives. The US does not outlaw the Islamic faith, but it would not tolerate the practice of Islamic extremism (terrorism) as it challenged the secular authority of the United States.

When speaking of democratic rights, one should bear in mind that the Chinese secular state is ruled by "teachers" and their patron saints include Confucius and Karl Marx. Within the Chinese political elite, there is a move towards more liberalization, more opportunities for expressing "loyal" political views. (Compare this to the British expression of "the loyal opposition") Since the death of Mao, legal protection for members of the elite has strengthened to the point where top leaders can retire from political life without the fear of being killed by their successors. This, to the Chinese political elite, is a giant step forward toward a more liberal political regime. In this limited sense, there is official promotion of human rights, mainly for the political elite. While political opposition is not tolerated, loyal political "advice" is sometimes listened to, and there is also the practice of sharing some centralized power with regional/local bodies, provided they all profess the basic political principles preached by the "teachers", and these political principles transmit into a common political culture down to the village and family levels. Within this qualified atmosphere, there is freedom of political expression and, in order to feel safe in giving political expression, one needs to learn and acculturate to the dominant political culture -- whose nuances do change with the changing of the guards at the top level. For ordinary mortals, since they are mostly quite ignorant of the nuances of the political culture of the secular state at any one time, they keep wise counsel to themselves by refraining from talking about "national affairs" (butan guoxi).

So we should note the curious phenonmenon that in China there is an ongoing political discourse going on at all levels, there is "freedom of political expression", and that participation rate in this political discourse is very low. Political expression is free for the political elite; anyone who participates in political discourse has aspiration to be part of the political elite; political expressions are therefore by definition not intended to be against the secular state; should some political expressions be outside of this perimeter, those who make such expressions would be held accountable and required to recant, acknowledge irroneous thinking, or worse -- be put in jail.

Such niceties are beyond the army of foreign reporters descending into Beijing right now. After all they are not talking to the Chinese populace within the Chinese secular state, they are talking to the global community elsewhere who have established prejudices and partialities toward China. As protected foreign reporters, they are not answerable to the Chinese secular state, and, as long as their views can be quarantined from the Chinese populace, the Chinese secular state has little need to deal harshly with them irrespective of what harsh views they may or may not have about China. One Australian reporter (on TV) for example, referred to the pollution in Beijing as "at least five times worse than any Australian city". This was an irresponsible and unfounded comment and he was not an isolated case. Is this China Bashing? This is ignorance rather than China Bashing and such irresponsible comments would only add to the ignorance of his viewers, who, after all, are not all that interested in his comments and far more interested in viewing the Opening Ceremony tonight and the many competitions at the 2008 Olympics. China just happens to be the site where the Olympic Games are held, and the viewers/readers will benefit from some degree of exposure to present day China. Would this not make them just a little bit better informed about China? Let the ignorant practice their ignorance on their audiences, while their audiences are getting wiser seeing contemporary China on screen and in print during the Olympic Games.
Posted by:rj11zmpAugust 8, 2008 9:28:50 AMRespond ^
I think that war is war, you have arms, you use them against an enemy force, people die, money is wasted, then, when everything calms down, people go back to what they were doing beforehand, for the most part. Then, after a given span of time, the natives get restless again, and people build armies again, and the whole general sequence repeats itself.
Our military, or 'defen$e', as it's also known, has grown to gargantuan proportions. Stop by your recruiting office TODAY to find out if you might qualify for big college tuition and bonuses! And, end up in Iraf, which sure seems to be as good an example of military colonialism as you could think of. Meanwhile, back home, people get put out of their homes. One of the cool reasons for getting people involved in politics, and standing for public office, is that maybe, someday, we'll end up with some better choices and less of a stockyard-type process for choosing the next Occupant. The Iraf war was about oil, and money, no, make that A LOT OF MONEY, like, more money than would fit in your whole house, and people will do lots of interesting things for money, including kill other people. Having lots of money, a la Bill Gates et. al., tends to make a person Most Powerful. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and I'm pretty much absolutely disgusted with the whole milidustriacomplexerer in all its' promissory glory. Promissories, promissories, all in the name of defen$e of course, and for all the millions and billions and tens of billions, they let the borders go to hell, apparently deliberately, and everyone's willing to go along with the offshore stuff as long as they get a piece of the action, and it really makes you wonder just what kind of governing ethic is being observed/adhered to in dear ol' D.C., these days. Plenty of room for improvement, in my estimationer, and plenty of room for budget cuts, too.
Posted by:BertAugust 8, 2008 9:50:11 AMRespond ^
Military service has always been an avenue to citizenship, regardless of status. At least it was during my twenty years of service and sometime before I believe. They truly are an unredeemable bunch fools. Of all of the world's problems, all they can think of is how to add to the madness.
Posted by:DavidAugust 8, 2008 10:19:00 AMRespond ^
It's not your shame. It's their shame you are feeling. You have plenty to be proud of, in time you will be refreshed and prepared to fight the real enemy.
S.H.A.P.E. 2nd Signal Brigade
2nd Infantry Division
3rd US Infantry
TRADOC
Posted by:DavidAugust 8, 2008 10:25:33 AMRespond ^
They can't fight until they are able to see the real enemy. The people have been given an illussion and told this is what you must defend at any cost. The system keeps them in the dark. It will only get worse, and the people will become weaker until they know the truth, if ever.
Posted by:DavidAugust 8, 2008 10:37:20 AMRespond ^
The USA is like the Germans of 1914, we're better off without empire.
Posted by:don smithAugust 8, 2008 1:07:49 PMRespond ^
Did they point out that all of the empires they examined fell? Why would we strive to model our country after historical failures? I value the past greatly, but I value it as a tool to learn from and improve upon - not repeat!

For my English 101 class in college I wrote a paper discussing the United States similarities to the Roman Empire and I predicted the fall of our own success. Again, this was a starry-eyed freshman discussing the unsustainable political methods the United States employs. Now, I am 'privileged' to witness my 'prediction' come to fruition.
Posted by:SarahAugust 8, 2008 3:30:29 PMRespond ^
bahman - your answer is correct, sadly.

we have freedom of speech - not freedom of action.
Posted by:SarahAugust 8, 2008 3:42:19 PMRespond ^
>>>How does a nation in a $9trillion hole rule the world? Just Askin'
Posted by:Capitalist EricAugust 8, 2008 3:43:11 PMRespond ^
Q: ***How does a nation in a $9trillion hole rule the world? Just Askin'*** A:
Ummm... that would actually be $100 Trillion, when you take away all the smoke and mirrors... About $330,000 for every man, woman and child in this country. HOW, you ask...? Well, if you ask Bernanke or Paulson, they'll just say "print more MONEY!" (((sigh)))
Posted by:Capitalist EricAugust 8, 2008 3:44:23 PMRespond ^
Although one would prefer a lesser national debt it should be placed in the context of global national debts as related to GDPs. Not the most robust of parmenters it does place the USA in a comparatively average position. For most of the last 60 years the global community has assumed the USA would carry the "can" for all types of global activities while expanding its domestic programs. At what point do "you" suggest we draw the budget/planning line now or in the future in terms of a World/USA that encourages the growth of "freedom/prosperity" with a minimum of conflict in respect of civilizational differences.
Posted by:HammerAugust 8, 2008 4:40:48 PMRespond ^
rj11zmp,
It's frankly kind of scary to read your defense of authoritarian rule. Though of course I recognize that authoritarian rule can contain relatively "humane" or pluralistic elements. The Romans also tolerated diverse ideas as long as they didn't appear to endanger the social order.

I just wonder how long China's citizens will be satisfied to live in a society that provides them with material goods but doesn't allow them to speak freely. Internet filtering will not keep the Chinese from knowing people in other parts of the world can. India is another megacountry with economic growth that is a lot freer.
Posted by:tgemberlAugust 8, 2008 4:55:39 PMRespond ^
Our economy will not stretch to support this burden of empire indefinitely. Those here who say "doesn't the Pentagon see that these other empires fell?" ignore the fact that the Western Roman Empire lasted 1000 years, until the fifth century AD. That is not a bad run. However, toward the third century AD the economy became overstressed and could no longer support the cost of defending the long frontiers. Taxation became enormous and to guarantee workers laws were passed making it mandatory for a man to continue his father's occupation - the first step toward serfdom. Since events come quicker in modern times, our economy may become overstressed in much less than 1000 years. Indeed, it may have hit that point already, with the Iraq War as the straw that broke the camel's back.
Posted by:ChasAugust 8, 2008 9:06:30 PMRespond ^
They need to read "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers" by Paul Kennedy and "The Sorrows of Empire" by Chalmers Johnson if they really want to know what happens to fools who try to rule the world through military means.
Posted by:willsAugust 9, 2008 1:43:27 AMRespond ^
Easy, print more money.
Posted by:CaddyAugust 9, 2008 10:12:28 AMRespond ^
You don't know feces from shin-o-la.
Posted by:caddyAugust 9, 2008 10:24:28 AMRespond ^
The only pertinent chapter to learn should be the fall of the Empire.
The US has done it by the book and some.
American prescription for empire:

1)de-industrialize and lose your source of wealth. Allow flight of capital.
2)Allow your financial system along with the political system become completely corrupt and paralyzed.
3)De-fund and privatize your public institutions so that they become dysfunctional and picked into pieces.
4)Turn against your own people via civil rights abuses, power grabs and blatant unconstitutional behavior.
5)Spread yourself militarily as thin as possible and become entangled in many conflicts for a long time to thoroughly exhaust your reserves.
6)Turn the world opinion against you and crate enemy from the majority of the injured parties subject to economic and military conquest.
7)Finance your institutions with capital from your potential enemies. Depend on debt.
8)Destroy your own wealth and purchasing power by devaluing your currency and create runaway inflation to kill your remaining economy and tax base.
9)Go bankrupt due to military industrial complex bottomless expenditures without any oversight.


More??

Posted by:PeterMAugust 9, 2008 9:41:58 PMRespond ^
You confuse 'conquer' with 'pacify'. Iraq was surely conquered, and in short order. If allowed to use the same tactics the Romans or Khan did the country would surely be peacefull and pacified as well. Modern media coverage and bleeding hearts limit the use of collective punishment or immediate execution for resistance.
Posted by:SasquachAugust 10, 2008 8:39:41 AMRespond ^
My goodness. You really have bought into the stories they teach through the media, haven't you? Maybe You need to go and see first hand what has been done through this second coming of the Papal Crusade against the "Infidel Muslims". I imagine you also believe that the Disneyland on the Euphrates really IS being built to bring a little happiness to the children of Iraq who survive this genocidal war! Please, open your eyes to reality, not what mainstream media has told you to believe. Dig for the truth.
Posted by:BarbaraAugust 11, 2008 5:34:29 AMRespond ^
This report fits in nicely with the "Project for a New American Century" which was the neo-conservatives' agenda for the take-over of the Middle East and ruling of the whole world by making even our "allies" bend to our (the US) will, and was written even before Dubya's Supreme Court led coup d'etat put him in the White House (where he and his handlers have certainly pursued this aggressive and arrogant policy). What utter arrogance! If the US was as good as it always says it is, and even seems to have convinced itself that it is true, it would still be the height of neo-colonial arrogance to think the US had the superiority and even the right to rule over the world. What about that myth the US proclaims about its belief in democracy, human rights and freedom? Well, it doesn't take a lot of reading to know that is a lie (just look at US history and it is clear the US has never and doesn't now do anything that is not in its corporate business interests). If the US really believed in democracy etc. then presidents would by elected by world wide voting and there would be representatives in congress from all the countries in the world whose peoples' lives are impacted by US militaristic and corporate business policies. All empires have eventually collapsed and it seems to me, and to others, that the US empire is set to be the world's shortest, possibly for its disregard for those very human, democratic and economic rights that it claims to believe in but fails miserably to deliver on, mainly because it really doesn't care. US neo-colonialism is nothing but neo-feudalism and it is just a matter of time until the serfs rise up and throw the bastards out! (On a similar vein it is interesting to note that Mussolini said that fascism should actually be called "corporatism" since it is the perfect merger of corporate capitalism and government. Doesn't that sound awfully familiar?) While the US infrastructure crumbles, 43million working poor go without healthcare, 37million live below the poverty line and more are added every day, the country is ranked 52nd in freedom of the press and worst in infant mortality in the developed world, the big-spending conservatives care not a whit about the people, obviously, but only the soaring profits made by the war-profiteers (Haliburton, The Carlyly Group, Big Oil etc.) and all at the tax-payers' expense. They profess outrage at spending money on people in the US, but never balk at shoving by the trunk load to these greedy robber barons. The US is run by two corporate parties. One tries to give a little back to the people but one couldn't care less. The future of the US looks bleak indeed. No wonder so many around the world and inside the country see a country in decline. The Soviet Union went bankrupt first, the US looks to be next. Maybe what arises out of the ashes, if anything does, will be a more advanced and humane system that takes care of its own people, is a partner in the world to solve the world's ills (without being the source of them) and is a leader in enlightened government and social policy. Maybe then it will only truly have a department of "defense", quite unlike what it has now - a huge congressional-military-industrial complex cancer that eats away at everything good and keeps the country and the world sick.
Posted by:FreethinkerAugust 11, 2008 8:14:05 AMRespond ^
"It makes me ashamed to have fought in Iraq for America
Posted by: billy August 5, 2008"

No Billy, it's not you who should ever feel shame. It's the fascist NeoCons who cooked up the lies to get their hands on the Iraq oil fields and the war profiteers who are continuing to make billions if not trillions from keeping this "war" (which is really an occupation) alive. Why else would they want to stay in Iraq another 100 years. Guess they want their grandchildren to wallow in the spoils.

Be proud Billy because you did everything a good soldier does. You did your duty and accomplished the mission. Because of you and your fellow soldiers the war in Iraq was won in May 2003. The shame belongs to the NeoCons and never on your shoulders. Thank you for your service and thank you for having a conscious. Pity the NeoCons can't experience shame but then it takes a conscious to be able to do that.
Posted by:ThedaAugust 11, 2008 5:03:40 PMRespond ^
PeterM:
I agree with you. But to simplify it a little bit, the collapse of the Roman empire was really caused by 3 main-factors, all of which we are also we are doing ourselves:
1. An over-extended military. Trying to police the world, and not for any noble reasons, either.
2. Devalued currency. Our currency is a fiat currency. It's back by nothing except our military might, and OPEC's agreement (which might not last much longer) to only accept dollars for oil. This is blatantly un-Constitutional (as well as just stupid). Everyone who has tried fiat currencies always exploit the (the exception being the short use of Colonial Script in our early days of formation as a nation)system, which causes economic collapse, and the currency is eventually destroyed.
Rome started devaluing it's currency by simply putting less actual gold into their coins, to make a long story short.
And 3.-A belief in their own moral superiority and a failure to understand other cultures..a blindness caused by too much power, which corrupts all but the wisest of men.
We are heading down the same path. Our path also resembles what happened in Germany with the rise of Hitler to a large degree also. He staged a false-flag terrorist event--the Reichstag Fire;insiders within our government assisted in a false-flag terrorsist event, in that they knew it was going to happen, and created these war games that essentially paralyzed any military response. Soon after the Reichstag Fire, which was of course set by direction of Hitler, he began to start passing laws that destroyed basic Civil Liberties, all in the pretense of "keeping people safe" from their etrrorist enemies. Yes, they were called terrorists. We blame the Muslims, Hitler blamed the Jews. As time
passed, Hitler did away with more and more of people's rights, exactly as the Bush regime has done to us by eviserating the Bill of Rights and our Constitution. Some people say, well the
Constitution is out of date, etc, etc..Well, That's why it's been amended.
But as far as our basic rights, and We
the people being the controllers, NOT
the Government (the Constitution was
written to set and limit the powers of the government, so that what they had
witnessed in the U.K wouldn't happen
again here.) Anyway, as I was saying, they got our basic rights, which are contained in the Bill of Rights, which
are the 1st 10 amendments to the Constitution, are what has protected us
in the past from, say, the police just being able, for no reason, to come into
your home, go thru all your stuff, may-
be rape your wife or daughter while they're at it. Bush has set about destroying all these protections. Under
the Patriot Act, government agents can
break in your home, download all your
business and personal information from
your computer, or whatever you have
stored it within, search your home, take
anything they want, and never even tell
you they did it.
Now, that law is in direct and extreme
contraction to our 4th amendment right
to be safe from unreasonable search and seizure. It's all done in the name of
terrorism, but actually, your chances
are greater getting struck by lightening
than being involved in a terrorist attack, and more people die from car accidents, just in the US alone, than die from ALL international terrorism combined.
But the lie that was 9/11 MUST be exposed. There's no way those planes could have flown around our skies, without being shot down unless they were paralyzed-and they were, by these war games. They knew it was going to happen, it was their "New Pearl Harbor."
Posted by:AlanAugust 11, 2008 5:24:36 PMRespond ^
the past is a adifferent country. comparing todays geopolitics with macedonia or rome only illustrates the lack of depth in the education system. all the U.S. needs to do to maintain its superiority and police functions that resemble empire is keep producing superior weapons.
Posted by:CharlesAugust 12, 2008 1:22:11 AMRespond ^
Yes indeed. And where does the idea originate that academics are somehow objective? The vast majority that I know are horribly quick to turn any fact on its ear to suit a journalist who flatters them by asking their opinions. A little more circumspection regarding your experts' axes to grind wuldn't come amiss.
Posted by:AdrianneAugust 12, 2008 4:28:26 PMRespond ^
those who do not learn from history
are condemned to repeat it.i think the
us should realise its past [battle
with germany , japan] , is prologue to
a possible future battle [
not necessarily military; battle over
markets; trade; technological superiority etc..]..
Posted by:steveAugust 13, 2008 12:01:37 AMRespond ^
did they study until the last page...???
Posted by:shangrilaAugust 13, 2008 7:53:28 AMRespond ^
If we can make the assumption that there are different types of history, ie; military utilitarian, civilian utilitarian, popular, etc, etc, and specifically, different types and functions of military history, the book does a decent job of moderninzing the lessons in history for the average soldier. In fact, this document borderlines on popular history as it makes a strong attempt to promote "Nationalism". Not a bad thing for an all professional volunteer army. This document was not created for the "specialist" but rather is an appeal to the "Masses", the generalist, in the big Army. Think basic American History 101 at your local Community College or maybe even High School Senior level.

Look at the Academic credentials of the authors. If this was going to be an Official Military history then it would have been done at the Center for Military History; this was not, it was done by contract consultants that are not historians by training.

Never the less, What I find discomfitting is that military advantage in the 21st century is more than the few variables and lessons they mention. There is short shrift in information operations and how these lessons really apply to the "long-war".

It seems to me that the military is reverting back to a conventional approach in teaching the lessons of war.

What the military really needs is a better grounding in a myriad of soft subjects that are not traditional to Military Studies, such as; cultural, finance and business studies if they want a better grasp of the war's of the 21st Century.
Posted by:TerryAugust 17, 2008 3:14:35 AMRespond ^
All empires are evil. How many more trials humanity has to go through before realizing that the idea of empire is an evil, destructive force that brings only misery, and desolation to the world? The idea of empire stems from the ego which is none other than the residue of the supreme egoist and the source of all violence and fear in the heart of mankind. This "kingpin of selfishness" had worshippers in the Nazi regime of which Hitler was the supreme Satanist.
Alexander the great too was a perfect example of a mind ruled solely by the ego. In the Roman empire it was endemic the power of the ego for its leaders were considered gods. How convenient and accommodating, Nero found this empire. Reducing Rome to ashes while its citizens slept oblivious to the great fire, in order to pursue his egoistic grandiose dreams of a new city, and then blaming the Christians for the deed. Self aggrandizement is characteristic of ego slaves, and Genghis Khan was another willing servant. The race for empire came once again from the East under the rule of the Ottoman Empire and the banner of religion.

The world has seen very little of periods of peace for through out history the ego-empire scourge springs up once more after the terror of the French Revolution. From the chaos, rises another beast, Napoleon Bonaparte, another ignorant butcher who crowned himself emperor and like Hitler wanted the world under a single government.

The global stage has been always the ultimate prize, for the idea of empire was endemic among the Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, and English Monarchies. Marching the road of butchery without scruples and exterminating the indigenous peoples of the New World who had welcomed them with open arms, was to Columbo the only solution. Later in order to expand this empire more slaves were brought from Africa, packed in ships like sardines in filthy, deplorable conditions. When human slaves were not enough the Europeans turned to Africa's natural resources, in which the Belgians occupied the Congo to start a monopoly in the Ivory trade. The slaughter of elephants in the hundreds of thousands was carried out with the same appalling cruelty in which they enslaved the natives. The legacy of the ego-empire is still visible today in the dark continent. "The Hearts of Darkness" of the colonialists was the vision congolese men inherited for the horror continues in the raping of their women and children. The enslavement of young women, and children, for the empire of the sex trade is representative of men who worship Beelzebub's ego.

The Industrial revolution brought the boundless greed of the Corporate Cartels which stop at nothing to realize their empire state ego buildings and the world is not enough to placate their materialistic desires, consuming, and polluting relentlessly crucial, natural ecosystems without which the planet is unable to maintain its balance and continue to sustain life.

Although this in itself should send alarm bells in the collective conscience and prompt the need to create a new way of thinking to live in harmony and stop the mindset of empire, the Pentagon, that resembles more a pentagram, finds the intimidation game intoxicating, and playing the ego-empire game even at the cost of nuclear holocaust a feasible reality.by the empire power players of China, Russia, and the United States of America. The later one lacking ever more wisdom in the hands of the ignorant, but deceitful Bush Administration that not only stole the elections but engaged the country in a war to steal the natural resources of another. This is what gave the opportunity for Russia to start trouble once again by invading Georgia, for it sees that the US is wasting its resources and is totally engaged in an ill conceived war. This should be a matter for reflection but the Pentagon which is also part of the same establishment of the Kingpin of egoism is not detered by the show of force from Russia or China for it possess technology far more advanced than the rest of them, and is willing to obey to the empire of the ego, no matter if the world is incinerated in radioactivity.
Posted by:DaazAugust 18, 2008 3:22:12 PMRespond ^
The lesson that has to be drawn is that the military might did not prevent the collapse of these empires. Bush's empire is already on the decline. You don't need to conduct an intelligent research to reach that conclusion. Look what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan and recently in Georgia.
Posted by:B AhmedAugust 19, 2008 6:34:37 PMRespond ^

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