Off-Road Rules
Should you be able to drive anywhere you damn well please? An alliance of local officials and timber, mining, and off-road-vehicle lobbyists—along with their friends in the White House—have dug up a Civil-War-era statute to stake road claims all over the West.
For Kiley Miller and John Rzeczycki, owners of 160 acres of wild desert outside Moab, Utah, Easter brings jeeps. Hummers, too, and modified pickups, and stripped-down rock crawlers—by the tens of thousands they descend on Moab for the annual Easter Jeep Safari, one of the nation's largest off-road-vehicle events. The jeeps whine through gears on a windswept uplift named Black Ridge near the couple's property, leaving a spoor of beer cans and brake fluid. Once, a group of jeepers left a message on one of the Private Property signs Miller and Rzeczyckihad put up—a noose, as carefully knotted as a girl's braid.
Carpenters by trade and rock climbers by choice, Miller, 36, and Rzeczycki, 37, came to Black Ridge in 2003 to live in a solar-powered, wood-heated cabin. This was their land; they expected that the local government would protect their right to it. So, Miller was quick to call the sheriff's department on the morning of Good Friday, 2004, when Rzeczycki tried to block a jeep traveling on a closed trail adjacent to the property. The vehicle kept moving, pinning Rzeczycki under its 40-inch tire; the sheriff's deputy found him lying in the dirt, nursing a torn ligament and a damaged meniscus. He promptly threatened to write a ticket for disorderly conduct—to Rzeczycki, for "getting in the way of the jeeps." As the deputy drove away, Miller noticed that his car bore one of the ubiquitous urinating-Calvin stickers, the insult in this case directed at the logo of the conservation group Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (suwa).
As Miller and Rzeczycki would soon learn, they had walked into an epic national land-use debate, with conservationists and property owners pitted against state and county officials, deregulation advocates in Washington, and a slew of industry lawyers and lobbyists. At the heart of the dispute is an ancient federal law known as Revised Statute 2477, passed in 1866 to encourage development in the West by granting rights of way over public land. In a sweeping new interpretation embraced by the Bush administration, counties across the West have argued that RS 2477 allows them to claim as "highways" thousands of paths, trails, and wagon tracks, even on private property and inside national parks and wilderness areas. If the counties succeed in establishing their reading of the statute as legal precedent, warns suwa executive director Scott Groene, it could "open the door to motorized use of nearly all of America's public lands."
At stake is not just whether jeepers can drive across public land, or cut new trails in the boulder-studded washes on Miller and Rzeczycki's property. Roads mean access for oil, gas, and timber companies, for uranium prospectors and hard-rock miners and utility lines. Indeed, the outcome of the RS 2477 cases now cycling through the courts could determine the future of wilderness designation in the United States. For where there are roads, Congress has made clear, there can be no wilderness.
If by history, culture, and predilection any one state in the West was destined to start this fight, it was Utah. Isolated, persecuted, and rebellious, the Mormons arrived here in the 1840s to carve out a new nation; when they begrudgingly joined the union 50 years later, Utah's vast "unsettled lands," 42 percent of the state's territory, fell to federal control. But Utahans who had learned to farm amid the rock and raise cattle in the canyons spurned the land-use laws emerging from distant Washington. They paid little heed in 1934, when the Taylor Grazing Act sought to curb overgrazing in the West, or in 1946, when the toothless Grazing Service became the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (blm), also toothless but now charged with overseeing 258 million acres across 11 Western states and Alaska—land that was wild but not officially designated as national forest, park, or wilderness. Some 23 million acres of that blm land are in Utah.
A generation later, in 1976, Congress finally provided the blm (long mocked as the "Bureau of Livestock and Mining") a measure of enforcement power over its vast domain by enacting the Federal Land Policy Management Act. The law called on the agency to limit grazing and motor vehicle use, to hand out mining and drilling leases only after an environmental review, and to examine which of its parcels might be protected as wilderness. Though the act was rife with loopholes, many rural officials and business interests saw the introduction of environmental and other rules as a declaration of war; the ensuing antiregulatory backlash, known as the Sagebrush Rebellion, spread across the West for a decade.
Among the rebels' more obscure concerns was RS 2477. As a concession to local governments, the 1976 blm reform act had grandfathered in rights of way on public land, as long as they were shown to have a proven use at or before the act's passage. The process for identifying those roads and bringing them under state and county jurisdiction was never clarified, though, and for the next 30 years the RS 2477 question hung in the air, unresolved.
Fast-forward to September 1996, when Bill Clinton employed another moldy law, the American Antiquities Act of 1906, to create out of blm lands the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, a 1.9 million-acre protected wilderness showcasing 260 million years of geologic history in the form of vast cliff staircases running across southern Utah toward the rim of the Grand Canyon. Local governments saw it as yet another Washington land grab, and the commissioners of Kane, Garfield, and San Juan counties—whose slot canyons and piñon plateaus comprise some of the most pristine roadless landscapes in America—decided to avenge the injury. Just weeks after the monument was created, in September and October 1996, road crews dispatched by the three counties drove onto blm land, including portions of the Staircase, to turn 16 rugged trails into fully graded dirt roads that they claimed as county property under RS 2477.
The counties' stratagem quickly widened to include private lands as well. On an October day in 1997, a pair of longtime ranchers in Kane County, Ron and Jana Smith, came home from vacation to find their 2,000-acre property near the Staircase monument broken into, the chains on their gates clipped, six Private Property signs torn down, and four RS 2477 claims laid across their land. Kane County officials had made no attempt to give the Smiths prior notice. "They just showed up with bolt cutters," says Jana Smith, 53, who with her husband has owned the ranch since 1976. "Just went ahead and did it."
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Very simply put...If its Private Property we have the right to shoot.
All be damned if a bunch of beer drinking meth snorting swill is going to ruin my property.
Them's just good bush supporters a doin' what they do...swillin' cheap beer and rippin' up the earth. Bless ya, dubya, for makin' it all possible.
RE: Off-Road Rules
they got a very strict rules for off-road vehicle events. I just can't imagine myself driving a vehicle on unpaved roads with gravel, mud and rocks. It could be much worst if its vehicle parts like brake and shocks doesn't really working great.
Property rights in 21st century america. Just another casualty. Face it the nation of Washington and Jefferson has been replace by the likes of Dick Cheney.
If a government cannot maintain its borders and violates the property rights of its own citizens, What purpose does the government serve and for who does it does it work? One day we will wake up, but it is already too late.
Oh, HELL EMPHATICALLY NO! I am sick of all these law-twisting land grabs that benefit the government and businesses, and NOT the tax paying land owners. Urban sprawl and corporate-industrial deregulation have DESTROYED the land, air, and water of this Nation. Worst, pretty soon, not one private citizen will be able to legally own any land. This is just a fascist conspiracy to squeeze out citizens from owning property, and enjoying the Constitutional rights of LAND OWNERSHIP. Subsequently all citizens will soon become tenants to either the Government or these greedy private corporations. With corporations being granted the legal rights of person-hood once afforded the tax-paying property owners, businesses will soon have all the rights and liberties once afforded us by law, making us Their property or legitimate concern. Now, we've all attempted to call businesses for customer service at some time in life. With customer service being what is horribly is in the contemporary global marketplace, we are usually left to know that they simply loathe us for deigning to be their worrisome customers, though we're paying them! Just think about how we will be regarded once the government sells them our souls in some shady-a$$ land deal.
The BBC gives a very different example of Utah's ideas of land rights. An old woman beaten by police for not watering her lawn properly.
Well Hello there USA,
I know you guy's think it's the all American way, going to war in Vietnamn, Nicaragua, Afganistan, Irak bla bla bla.
& if thats not enough ofcourse you can destroy your own country as well, look at all the drugs, pornography & what not that you consume. So yes please be my guest, destroy your own wilderness to, just mess it up all the way you can.
But please let our Europa in peace, we do not want your "style" over here...
(or as someone said here below, just get the guns out and it is OK corall all over again.
BULLCRAP
Way too many off-road vehicle enthusiasts are trashy (proven by the fact they leave trash and destruction everywhere), selfish people who don't care about the environment or anything else except what pleases THEM for the moment. They need to be stopped, and if there are loopholes in the laws, those need to be closed.
Over half the money given to the Sierra Club is provided by marijuana growers on public lands who want to close it to prevent discovery. When bikers are not allowed to ride and arrested for riding on roads used by Army tanks, something is very wrong. Restore the Barstow to Vegas race, reverse the "Cranston Nation Forest" crap and let all Americans enjoy all of America. Private property has never included roads that transversed property, why should it now? In fact, the "eminant domain" crap has given government absolute rights over private property owners for the good of all (i.e., land speculators)
Where is Louis McKey (the Phantom Duck of the Desert) now that we need him!!!!
The Smith/Kane County story is not unusual where squatters lay claim to public land and are "surprised" to learn that they have no legal support. RS 2477 guarantees "public" access to public lands. Blocking a road in the country is no different than blocking a freeway, albeit less exciting. President Carter's Interior teams chose to close public access to western lands to favor a few. High time we spend more time upgrading these trails to benefit the public, not a special few.
Maybe Earth First! will come out it's lurking mode?
Yo, Crippen! As one of the "special few" in Utah, I don't think that people with legal title, no, not "squatters", to a given piece of property should be able to limit public access to their homes. But then, you don't seem to mind the idea of a four lane freeway 100 feet from your house.
Since back country areas become accessable, I've seen the vandalism on 1,000 year old rock paintings increase exponentially. Let's see, like the 100 foot panel in Horseshoe Canyon (in Canyonlands Nat'l Park) that someone tried to cut off a part, instead just shatttering that section into bits; and then the moron that lit a fire directly under the panel, again cracking the stone and also leaving smoke stains on the panel. Then there's the Courthouse Wash panel outside Moab that someone did their damnest to sandblast a while back.
Closing off a few areas doesn't mean that all areas are closed off. There's still a lot of places for the as-loud-as-I-can-be and obnoxious-as-I-can-be crowd. For example, Coral Sandunes is a popular ATV area. Walkers just have to be aware they're at a risk for being run over (been there, done that, almost being run over isn't my idea of fun).
It's soooo much fun to be camped in a nice quiet corner, only to have someone roar by leaving their dust for you to breathe for the next 10 minutes.
Frankly, what with the rising incidence of obeseity in this country, what's wrong with having a few places left that people actually have to walk to.
Oops, typo! Disregard the previous message.
Yo, Crippen! As one of the "special few" in Utah, I don't think that people with legal title, no, not "squatters", to a given piece of property should not be able to limit public access to their homes. But then, you don't seem to mind the idea of a four lane freeway 100 feet from your house. Since back country areas become accessable, I've seen the vandalism on 1,000 year old rock paintings increase exponentially. Let's see, like the 100 foot panel in Horseshoe Canyon (in Canyonlands Nat'l Park) that someone tried to cut off a part, instead just shatttering that section into bits; and then the moron that lit a fire directly under the panel, again cracking the stone and also leaving smoke stains on the panel. Then there's the Courthouse Wash panel outside Moab that someone did their damnest to sandblast a while back. Closing off a few areas doesn't mean that all areas are closed off. There's still a lot of places for the as-loud-as-I-can-be and obnoxious-as-I-can-be crowd. For example, Coral Sandunes is a popular ATV area. Walkers just have to be aware they're at a risk for being run over (been there, done that, almost being run over isn't my idea of fun). It's soooo much fun to be camped in a nice quiet corner, only to have someone roar by leaving their dust for you to breathe for the next 10 minutes. Frankly, what with the rising incidence of obeseity in this country, what's wrong with having a few places left that people actually have to walk to.
What else would you expect from those knuckle dragging mouth breathing Cretens who think the world is theirs to do with as they please. In their case ignorance is truly bliss but it is the rest of us who have to pay for their stupidity and arrogance.
By the way look up a Utah ecosystem that starts with cryptogamic soil, which goes a long way towards preventing a Saharan type desertification. Unfortunately, it is extremely sensitive to damage from trampling, either from foot traffic or from vehicles. When I hike I take care not to step on it. See: http://www.ilmyco.gen.chicago.il.us/Terms/Crypt103.html
I find it incredibly sad that we have to debate the removal of wildland protection from motor travel. Have we learned nothing? This obscure, civil-war era statute basically says "once a road, always a road" - if I understand it correctly. Sadly, it really has nothing to do with "rights." I think your writer hit it on the head - we are talking about a $4 billion industry here. Have you stopped at a local motorcycle/atv shop lately? Off road vehicles have come a long way - and in every shape and size. It is our capitalist, profits-come-first society that is our downfall. The belief that the the United States is a "free" country borders on mythical. We are slaves to a industrial consumer economy that is at the root of nearly all of our problems. Pick anything - Iraq, gun violence, sensationalist crap on TV - they are all connected to money.
rented a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon on a sunny day not long ago, traveling a jagged trail that edged Arches National Park. The truck slammed and sloshed, leaped over boulders, and cracked its shanks against the limbs of piñons. There was thrill in the power of the vehicle, its acquisition of each hard mile. For eminently practical reasons alone, jeeps have a place on federal lands, as of course do roads. The question boils down to where, and how many."
That's awfully bloody self-serving, wouldn't you say? Just overlay a massive grid of roads to nowhere to sustain millions of little adrenelin rushes, squeezed out at the price of pristine wilderness...?
and the "practical" side of it would be having your lazy arse effortlessly shifted up and down mountainsides, through river bottoms, and across any other terrain your little mind decides, without having to work up a drop of sweat.
And for all those who advocate letting gas-driven yahoos loose on the planet? it's already happened - look around.
"a National Science Foundation study noted that "orvs have now invaded an enormous variety of natural settings, from deserts and coastal dunes to forested mountains, and from fertile habitats for wildlife to unique refuges for relict flora and fauna.... Damage by ORVS in even the least vulnerable areas will require periods for recovery measured in centuries or millennia.... Archaeological and historical features, relict landforms, primitive soils, and other legacies of irreplaceable cultural, aesthetic, and scientific value have also been permanently lost."
But your position is that there's a place for unlimited unscientific yahoos out there, unlimitedly?
Back to the lab, Dr. Frankenstein.
That's awfully bloody self-serving, wouldn't you say, to not also ask "WHY?" ?
Just overlay a massive grid of roads to nowhere to sustain millions of little adrenelin rushes, squeezed out at the price of pristine wilderness...?
and the "practical" side of it would be having your lazy arse effortlessly shifted up and down mountainsides, through river bottoms, and across any other terrain your little mind decides, without having to work up a drop of sweat.
And for all those who advocate letting gas-driven yahoos loose on the planet? it's already happened - look around.
"a National Science Foundation study noted that "orvs have now invaded an enormous variety of natural settings, from deserts and coastal dunes to forested mountains, and from fertile habitats for wildlife to unique refuges for relict flora and fauna.... Damage by ORVS in even the least vulnerable areas will require periods for recovery measured in centuries or millennia.... Archaeological and historical features, relict landforms, primitive soils, and other legacies of irreplaceable cultural, aesthetic, and scientific value have also been permanently lost."
But your position is that there's a place for unlimited unscientific yahoos out there, unlimitedly?
Back to the lab, Dr. Frankenstein.
It's a shame that so many idiots give those of us who respect the earth, and also happen to 4X4, a bad name. Many of us ride only well traveled BLM marked trails and pack out what we pack in. I for one choose to 4X4 as I can't physically hike, but I love my earth and care for it.
the enrgy wasting, land damaging, \and polluters need to be stopped -repeal the law leaving no doubt
These people have the sensibilities of a lobotomized snail. To disrespect the beauties of the natural world with their insane pollution and trampling of mother earth is a multi layered sin against creation. They show no respect for the beings on this planet either. The noise with the insipid throttling of their big toys is enough to frighten all of nature for twenty miles in all directions. What right do they have to impose themselves upon all of us sentient beings and the surface of mother earth with such disregard for the many consequences? The idiots who feel it is their "right" to trash everything just because they can need to be stopped. The planet is in dire straights as it is. When Will the lawmakers start making laws that make sense and respect the earth and the beings on it? We must culturally grow up or we will perish ---- and drive ourselves insane on the way.
it is high time that the many take from the few! the bergoise have ruined the planet for the last time! crippen your sadly ignorant idont have the time to explane. "Guva all of us transplants to the land we call the usa are not about violence and destroying the world .its just that the so called meda shows us very poorly. down with emporor bush and the greedy warmoongers,landsteelers! p.s. kill your t.v. peace
When are people going to learn?? Once destroyed always destroyed. The very land that the Off-Roadsers love to trample, will soon become nothing but dust and oil-stained ground rubble if they continue. Why do humans constantly feel a need to crush and destroy in order to love something. We're like a giant Lenny from "Of Mice And Men!" Hikers are not "elitists" they just aren't as lazy as the rest...aaaawww you might have to walk a few miles to see some spectacular sight??
This earth is our home, and until we can live somewhere else we better stop [deleted]ting where we eat.
Jared Diamond's book Collapse offers examples of societies and nations who damaged their resources severely. Some such peoples reverse their errors; others did not.
If our government in it's infinite stupidity won't close our borders, why do you think they'll do ANYTHING for the private citizen? How much longer do we have to put up with the incompetant losers we call Senators and Congressmen not to mention President and Veep? The ONLY solution I can see is build the border around your PRIVATE property and put a moat on both sides, fill the moat with flesh eating fish and carry a BIG, BIG gun.
Private property, not public. Sounds pretty simple to me. Not only are the terms simple, but you also have the Constitution, of all things, to defend your right to that private property. I love rock crawlers, beer, and hippies, but they have no right on your property.
It seems to me that a human being could design a much more thrilling course for an off-road vehicle than nature does. Why not set aside a bit of public land and have off-roader's courses developed on them? With a little planning, I'm sure they could be much more fun to drive than most wilderness areas are. Who's gonna pay for it? Everybody. You don't want to pay for some beer drinking nut to drive around in the dirt? He doesn't want to pay for your hiking trails. It all evens out. What's important is to make courses that are so attractive, that nobody wants to drive in the back-country, removing the fig-leaf of "public use" from this government land-grab/environmental deregulation.
The TENS of M-I-L-L-I-O-N-S that enjoy off-road motorsports have seen what the preservation movement has done in the Eastern States. In most of New England there is no place to off-road except a few closed courses. The Blue Ribbon Coalition and other groups act in the interests of many Americans, equal or greater in numbers to the strict preservationists. Our desires are equally valid
Many of the off road routes are what off-roaders consider historic challenges, we want to see if our vehicle can do what others in the past have.
For me motor vehicles are my fine art, the roar of the engine my symphony. Ahhh the smell of race gas at dawn!
Frankly I don't expect many of you to understand what motorsports enthusiasts feel but know this, we will fight you to the death for ours cars, ATV, Jeeps trucks and motorcycles. I don't think you understand the underlaying anger that brewing between the polar opposites in the environmental arena.
okay mad max - but you don't get to use your wheels in the fight
winner takes all
RS2477 is just an excuse for the mining and llivestock interests to play on off roaders in order to exploit public lands. The off roaders don't have to tear-ass across pristine land and streams to sight see. In Donali National Park in Alaska Park buses accomodate sight seers. This can be done for all 128,000 acres of wilderness including the 10% in Utah.
It would be wiser for taxpayer money to be used for existing road maintenance and improvement and alternative public rail transportation. That would go a long way to resolving the energy crisis and saving the public lands.
With the current make-up of the US Supreme Court the privateers' mouths are watering.
Here's the thing - much of the land that these big Truk yahoos are riding on is not private property - its public lands out West. Now these lands are arid drylands with vegetation that is slow-growing and very susceptible to irreversible damage. Damage that local fully-developed ecosystem vegetation, and you can bet that several very negative processes will occur: soil erosion and noxious weed encroachment.
Both reduce the value of the land surface use. The natural ecosystem, with its indigenous plants and wildlife, vaporizes in a very short time.
You change enough of that land surface, and you got bigger problems in local area and semi-regional weather patterns.
And that, is part and parcel of climate change.
Don't believe me, do you?
You go look up Lake Chad at Widipedia. You'll find that among the causes for the diminishment (rapid evaporation) of this once dominant freshwater feature in Africa to be overgrazing and desertification of the grasslands that encompass the periphery of the lake. Its changed the savannah grasslands microclimate and thus endangered wildlife, already under tremendous survival pressure from humans.
Don't matter whether you promote desertification by off-roading or by over-grazing. Once you irreversibly damage that slender and tenuous lynchpin of soil ecology (vegetative land cover), the land cannot be reclaimed economically. Its pretty well kaput, fit only for them G-D offroaders.
Thank god gas prices are rising; at some point, the large SUV and Truk nitwits will have to either cut back on their smokes and beer consumption or give up their silly preoccupation with adolescent-minded, large-scale damage to public lands.
Once that damage is done, surface land use - meant to be multiple purpose - goes bye bye.
Just say 'NO WAY JOSE!" to Off road vehicle use on public lands.
PS: The settlers who populated the West more than 150 yrs ago left their traces in wheel tracks that criss cross the dryland West. Just to give you an idea of the sensitivity of dry srubland vegetation to disturbance, these rutted tracks remain in remote areas that haven't been developed (yet). Thats right, in all that time, the plants didn't regrow.
MAx has a small point: people who love to off-road should be accomodated: but only to the point where THEY DON'T F*CK UP THE PLANET FOR THE REST OF US.
If you can figure out a way to off-road without raping the earth, hey rock on.
If you can't and you have to use outlandish land-grabs to find new territory to wreck, well, it's time to shut it down.
D Smith- thank you! Century old ruts exist BECAUSE the environment cannot repair itself.
Max- Hmmm? The symphony of a 4 cycle engine... intake-compression-power-exhaust... that's brilliant! The muscial taste in ones' mouth is enjoyed by TENS of M_I_L_L_I_O_N_S who love cRAP music too. No redeeming quality within. Anthropocentric attitudes like yours prevail without regard to the end result. Whew. What a wreck.
Joan- A wise woman I hope my daughters emulate in their thinking.
Wow. Tell you what, you run me over with a Jeep and not kill me, you better hope when I find you, you won't die from the gunshot wounds. Sound fair?
More evidence on why off-road vehicles are the biggest threat to public lands.
More info: http://www.peer.org/campaigns/publiclands/orv/index.php
Daniel R. Patterson
Tucson AZ
dpatterson.blogspot.com
This is a strangely told story.
There is no mention, for one thing, of the infamous Utah land grab issues in the mid-nineties. There is, in particular, no mention of Orrin Hatch's involvement in those battles or, for that matter, whatever involvement he may have in what Ketcham reports here.
As for Hatch, when the Supreme Court handed down on June 14, 2004 Norton v. Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA), a decision that went against SUWA, Hatch jumped up and down with joy.
He noted, for example, that people in Utah were tired of environmentalists' "meddling."
Was nobody from Hatch's office available for comment?
Also, although Ketcham goes back to the Mormons settlement of Utah in attempting to give this story a historical context, he ignores a crucial and much more recent context in which the story should have been situated. The story of SUWA's temporary success in the mid 1990s after the Republicans took control of Congress to help forge the group's agenda.
According to at least one environmentalist who wrote about SUWA's efforts in the mid nineties, the group's success at the time owed much to the support that it got from "moderate Republicans" who came to office in 1996.
Ketcham, it seems like you have left out some important details here. Hatch, for one thing. And that SUWA enjoyed some success in the not to distant past because it was supported by "moderate Republicans."
Congress is now controlled by Democrats. So why is SUWA having what appears to be less success than it did in the mid 1990s?
Also, the National Parks Conservation Association was not, evidently, contacted for this story.
If Ketcham did contact that group, a non-profit that has done much on issues related to what Ketcham discusses, he would have been given an important perspective that this piece lacks.
For any who are interested, check out the National Parks Conservation Association's website. The group's acronym is NPCA.
Not all offroaders are drunk rednecks. The only ones that make print in magazines such as this are the ones that don't follow the "Tread Lightly" rules. Their antics make good copy, sell magazines, and that's why you hear only about those people. Those people are an embarrassment to the sport and pastime. Not all off roaders ignore signs or tear up the neighborhood. Most are family people out for scenery they couldn't get their families to any other way. The average family offroader wants the scenery to remain beautiful to show their kids. That is why many offroaders go out there on the weekends, clearing trails for, and picking up garbage left behind by, the eco-tourists, hikers and climbers. Using their own time and money, not tax-payer dollars, to provide a cleaner environment for others. Guess we should just leave the power gell packages and used propane cans where we find them.
These people who use such monuments of beauty for their off-road joy rides have no sense of decency, but they should be ashamed of their callous disregard for our birthright. People should drive their vehicles over their lawns and over their yards: oh, but that is probably what they do anyway, having no respect for the land, whatsoever. Justice would have them all do years and years of reconstruction in a civil service capacity, to undo the damage they have done. And they should be made to pay fines for the rest of their sorry, brutish, ignorant, pointless lives.
Too bad these simpletons don't realize what they are distroying. It is so sad to watch is country be distroyed by the likes of Bush, his disrguard for the enviroment in pursuit of the mighty dollar, the disreguard for law and his buddy DICK Cheney. Soon we will have no wilderness to enjoy, no private property that is truely ours. I hope that when these lug heads grow up and all that was great about the wilderness is gone they remember it was their foolishness that caused it. Of course with no real government control only the control of a self serving elite strata we are all headed the end soon so we will all be in this together. I guess the book 1984 was truely WAY ahead of its time!!!!!!!!!
If it could be limited to responsible off-roader's it wouldn't be quite as bad. At least they have some concern for keeping nature intact.
But that wouldn't be "fair".
well, seems everyone has something to say abo[deleted]t this. I'm a 4x4er and hot rodder. I [deleted]now I'm in the minority here, b[deleted]t [deleted]eel I have to spea[deleted]. I live in alas[deleted]a, and only 4x4 on approved trails. I pi[deleted][deleted] [deleted]p trash I see along the way, and pa[deleted][deleted] o[deleted]t what I pa[deleted][deleted] in. What I see is people who [deleted]eel they are better than my [deleted]riends and mysel[deleted], b[deleted]ying [deleted]p land and [deleted]hasing [deleted]s away. I'm not some d[deleted]mb dr[deleted]n[deleted] redne[deleted][deleted]. I'm wor[deleted]ing on my se[deleted]ond degree. I'm a [deleted]onservative rep[deleted]bli[deleted]an with a wi[deleted]e and one da[deleted]ghter. I want her to have a [deleted]lean world to grow [deleted]p in. It's j[deleted]st that I realize what little 4x4ing I'm going to do isn't going to [deleted]ill mother earth, j[deleted]st o[deleted][deleted]end some liberal snob who thin[deleted]s he's smarter than me.
Like every user group, there are good and bad members in that group. There are MANY more hikers then there are 4-wheelers and they do their fair share of damage. It is through education and stronger enforcement of existing laws that we can exist in a happy medium.
Nice, balanced reporting here. SUWA is attempting to close all existing roads to vehicular traffic. BRC (and other pro-access groups) are attempting to use RS 2477 to keep those same roads open. BRC is NOT fighting to open vast swaths of public (and private) land to vehicular traffic.
Regarding the person who rented the Wrangler - if you were touching pinion with the sides of the Wrangler, you weren't staying on designated trails. If you plan on renting again, you should really seek out a responsible 4x4 club and ask to join them for a ride so that you can see how to properly handle a Jeep on public lands.
"Tens of thousands" of Jeeps (and off-road vehicles) in Moab? At one time? If you've ever been to Moab, you'll know the town can't support that many people at one time - there aren't enough hotel rooms and camping spaces to support that many people.
Are there bad people that do bad things on public lands? You betcha. Are there good people who use public lands responsibly? You betcha.
I know you'll find it hard to believe, but when I take my Jeep on the trails in Colorado and Utah, I DON'T drink beer. I pick up any trash I find (there's actually very LITTLE trash on most trails, especially if you DON'T go during Easter Jeep Safari). I stay on the designated trails. All of the people with whom I wheel do likewise. I really appreciate the broad brush you paint us all with - very nice, progressive thinking there.
I want to comment on what Sharon Setzer posted about trahy offroaders. It's obvious this woman has never been offroading or even seen and offraod trail, let alone the many offroad clubs that make damn sure a trail keep clean and in good condition. I bet money Sharon Setzer is only commenting on what she has 'heard about' from gossip from those who also have never gone offroading. If you're out to make a negative comment like that, get your facts straight before making yourself look like a clown. The comment by Guva is pure garbage! I've been Europe, Africa, and Haiti. No one in either of those countries can drive worht a damn. Niether od the countries have eviromental laws for vehicles. In fact there isn't even a smog rule. Vehicles can belch forth a cloud of black exhaust without so much a worry about it's effects on the evironment. All 3 of these countries pile trash on the corners of the street. At least here in America we have street cleaners. I've seen more cigarette butts tossed on london streets than I care to remember. Go suck a fat cock Guva, Europe has laws that defy the mind.
your just a bunch of whiney bitch ass homo's, go [deleted] a sheep. too bad that punk ryzecki didnt get squashed, then maybe his "partner" would have left. desert is good for nothing other than wheeling. bye bitches, i am off to remove my catalytic converter and dial up the injectors so my enigne pullutes better.
your just a bunch of whiney bitch ass homo's, go [deleted] a sheep. too bad that punk ryzecki didnt get squashed, then maybe his "partner" would have left. desert is good for nothing other than wheeling. bye bitches, i am off to remove my catalytic converter and dial up the injectors so my enigne pollutes better.
Bull[deleted] and slanted
Bullsh!t and slanted fixed =)
RAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
