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The Convention Picks Up Steam
THE CONVENTION PICKS UP STEAM....Was Chuck Todd even watching the same speech as me? Yeah, Biden flubbed a couple of lines in a minor way, but jeez. Even seen through the lens of my political speech autism (hereafter PSA) I thought it was a pretty moving performance. And Marian thought he was great, which counts as my "woman in the street" opinion since she's not a political junkie like everyone else I know.
And then Brokaw followed up by saying that the convention sagged today compared to Monday and Tuesday? Did I hear that right? He must have been watching a different bunch of speeches too. Between Bill Clinton, John Kerry, and Joe Biden, I thought this was by far the best night so far.
Agreed completely. John Kerry was shockingly good. Clinton was good, and Biden was comfortable with himself, as always. A great night.
Brokaw and Todd were coming down off of drug highs today.
I'm not sure Brokaw (or Williams for that matter) is even watching the same convention I am. When asked a question, they seem to answer some entirely different question using some 'inside' metrics/criteria that just aren't comprehendable. Chuck Todd was on that planet tonight too. Kind of like someone told them not to get too excited because we agreed, didn't we, that the narrative coming out of Denver would be about Democratic weakness, division, etc.
As wierd and as awful as Chris Matthews can be he was right about how Biden's speech will have played to the millions of Democrats, former Democrats and should-be Democrats who don't wear Armani suits and go to insider parties. Because these should-be (but aren't) Democrats are many of my relatives, I know that Biden connected with them. They've been interested and willing to give Barack a chance ever since Biden was selected. They love that he wears his emotion on his sleeve and ate up his ode to his family and his mom. TV analysts wouldn't recognize an emotional appeal if it hit them in the face. Biden works because he's genuine and people get that. They believe his criticism of McCain.
Wait and see --- and mute the tv when the pundits come on. They make a living trying to tell us that we did not see what we saw or that it means something different than what we thought it did.
Don't worry, Kevin! They'll all comment upon the Republican convention in the same manner!
They're probably tired from the lack of oxygen and aren't paying attention!
And, fingerfood -- r-i-i-ght.
I just don't understand the political chattering class this year. It's not just the major networks, it's New York magazine, it's John Dickerson at Slate (someone who I usually find pretty insightful), it's PBS... it's the worst kind of insider cynicism that I've ever seen. And it's frustrating and weird. It's like they are all just on contrarian autopilot. Cynicism is the cheapest, worst emotion. It's easy to do. It's arrogant, it requires zero thought and even less empathy. Perhaps it's the state of journalism -- with networks and newspapers cutting staff left and right -- journalists have all just become hopeless. How, very, very sad.
Is this the Tom Brokaw who believes the Dems cannot criticize McCain because (wait for it) he was a POW?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/210890.php
All right then!
P.S. I thought Kerry was the best. Clinton was his usual (great) self. Biden was better than I expected; not damning with faint praise, it's just that I wait for his flubs :-).
It seems that the talking heads have a need to criticize something--Biden is criticized for not attacking Dick Cheney. Bill apparently didn't endorse Barack with enough enthusiasm. I thought the convention found the clarity so many have felt it lacked-- focusing on the economic concerns of the middle class and the foreign policy failures of the Bush-McCain-Cheney administration.
Agreed. I'm not sure the MSNBC people watch the speeches. They just do broadcast chatter while the speeches are made in the background.
I get the sense the folks at MSNBC (whom I've been watching the entire convention) won't be satisfied unless they hear an ENTIRE speech of nothing but 110% bashing John McCain, not drawing distinction that require brains or nuance, they want 20 minutes of John McCain is Evil, Obama is Good and we will defeat Evil, nothing else will satisfy them.
Maybe I should put this in the pit-of-your-stomach thread, but I'm really worried about the traction The Corner and the rest of the right are getting with this Bill Ayers story, and the Obama camp's attempt at spamming a talk show. WTF????? If Ayers is made to look like the Eric Rudolph of the left by these asinine tactics, and Obama has clearly lied about the extent of their relationship, I think this could be another Willie Horton issue. And Rev. Wright is still out there ready to be dropped on our heads like a piano. I'm very worried - how could our guy have been so stupid.
If you want some real fun, check out the convention commentary on Fox!
Was Chuck Todd even watching the same speech as me? etc.
Exactly. Those guys have been awful. The dissonance smacks of the 2000 race, alas.
I've felt sad about turning away from MSNBC this week. Between Olbermann's constant self-congratulatory pronouncements and his ever expanding sense of self-importance, Chuck Todd's unrestrained youthful exuberance, and my complete surprise at Brokaw's inability to understand even the most obvious nuances, I've become a channel surfer. C-Span or on-line streaming has seemed to be the best answer.
Kerry's speech was terrific, but he's been talking freely for the past couple years... I just think that few have been listening. He's been biting in his attacks for a loooong time. Bill's speech was well-crafted and solid, and his statements about Obama were very measured, but he rationalized his arguments well, both for himself and for others who may have had similar feelings about Obama. Biden's speech was great for what it was, a carefully defined and specific set of messages for a carefully targeted audience of average Americans. I was very impressed at how criticized McCain's positions, but did not attack him personally or otherwise. Very well done, in my opinion. Given some of the unrestrained personalities on MSNBC (... Boy, do they ever need an 'editor!'...) I'm not entirely surprised.
Matthews, for all his faults, seems basically a good guy who can acknowledge that he's off the mark at times and makes mistakes. Before I stopped watching, I noticed that Buchanon is still capable of surprise, and Mitchell and Gregory were trying to report. It's a shame about Olbermann, Brokaw, and Todd, though, particularly they seem to be the golden boys right now and we have to hear so much from them.
Troubleman - you sound concerned.
I'll just note that Chuck Todd, et al, are not only not watching the same convention you are. They are not watching any convention at all. They spend the whole time chattering about nonsense. It's ridiculous.
I think you hit it on the head, Kevin. In fact, I think the convention has been steadily building up, with today being the best day so far.
I posted the Kerry speech at the JCDC website. I figure a lot of folks were watching the bobbleheads and didn't see it. Thank God for C-Span.
If Kerry had been that good 4 years ago we would have sent shrub packing. It's like he thought about where he went wrong and wanted to make amends.
troubleman, anyone looking for an excuse not to vote for obama will find one, and ayers will be one of them.
anyone who is interested in voting for obama will take the time to find out that, as usual, this kind of story is complete, unmitigated bullshit, that billy ayers did his time, raised a family, is a Distinguished Professor of education, and has been involved in some major philanthropic activities related to education, and they'll be fine with it.
Ayers did no time - he beat the rap due to gaming the statute of limitations while on the lam. He has found a very comfortable nest as a professor but is adamately unrepentant about being a conspirator to murder - the Eric Rudolf analogy is not that far off. Look I want Obama to win as much as anyone, but I'm trying to look at this through the eyes of the voters we need, not the voters we already have, and this kind of problem really scares me. We're not going to solve the problem by razzing National Review columnists and ignoring the issue, Willie Horton or the Buddist Monk campaign contributors or the SwiftBoat guys should have taught us this... this is the kind of issue that kills us.
Echoing Ron Byers: Thank God for C-SPAN. That has been my rallying cry this whole week.
Asstards, the lot of them.
Actually, though, I was really expecting better of them.
I don't know why. F'ing pathetic, deplorable, and borderline 5th column-y.
Appeasers to the stupid, is what it is.
I also keep expecting Brokaw to say something that makes it appear that he is not coasting, past his prime, and on painkillers.
It's like I'm in kindergarten again. Or in college Literature class and instead of Shakespeare the professor is reading, verbatim, slowly as if revealing some majestic art, the full text of the Hardy Boys mysteries.
I wonder how France is doing these days with the intellectualism and so on. It's over over here. Anti-intellectualism won.
I guess I've wandered off topic. But if you've been watching the coverage, too....
Best night so far in a steady build. Kerry was fantastic. Bill Clinton is a conversational maestro. Biden made a strong case and is well-cast energetically next to Obama. - As for MSNBC, what is up with them anyway? What a load of hooey they've been shoveling these last three days. Really. It's like watching a collective breakdown. Earlier tonight, I happened to catch a radio special with a piece that Sarah Vowell did about the press wholly missing the point in their election coverage. Excellent piece. Also depressing. Because the the beat just goes on and on and... It's like some viral stupidity they all catch. http://www.hearingvoices.com/special/2004/primary/
And another thing -- do people really care about the Ayers stuff? And if so, why? It just seems like the usual suspects in the right wing hype machine puffing up the hype. Some people will swallow the whole thing, but they're watching fox news and don't want to paint the white house black, this year or any year, anyway.
Seems like more of throw what you can and see what sticks.
Maybe troubleguy can explain this.
From me it gets a shrug, and a 'are you fucking kidding me?' GW Bush for 8 years, all that meant, and Ayers either way is supposed to freak out anyone under 70?
MSNBC has a pretty good team - but Chuck Todd should be used ONLY as a numbers guy. He's incompetent beyond that one trick, and Brokaw is close to senility. He's like a used condom oozing Beltway conventional wisdom.
"how could our guy have been so stupid"
Regarding Ayers, the irony is that Ayers regained respectability in Chicago circles because he dad was one of the rich and connected insders of the Chicago establishment. He was head of whatever their "PG&E" is called and tight with every wealthy and/or politically powerful Windy City broker. Obama served on a non-profit board with the (arrogant/ambitious/entitled) son of one of the most powerful men in Chicago - THAT'S the story. If there was any flaw in Obama's behavior re: Ayers - which I contend there wasn't in context - it was that he did the kind of thing that Republicans are best at - hobnobbing with the elite about whom not many questions are asked.
I thought Biden's speech was great. And the occasional flubs work for him in two ways: (1) they seem "regular guy"; and (2) the become part of his baseline so that when he does flub it's no big deal.
Anyway, I thought it was a great speech. I think I'm learning not to listen to the commentators. I have no idea why any of them think what they do.
Screw Brokaw and the pundit class. They are yesterday's out of touch dinosaurs. Thanks to the Net we can ignore those pompous asses. 8 years ago you couldn't have heard Kerry's speech because it wasn't carried by the networks. Today we can bypass those bastards and watch it any number of times.
Kevin,
You must have missed the memo. Tom Brokaw and the rest of the traditional media's goal is to ensure a McCain win, or at least a close race. They have their scripts and they are sticking to them.
So, no, they didn't watch the speeches. They were busy on their blackberries trying to figure out who McCain's VP is and if Obama was coming to the convention. They just are playing their role.
This election will be won by the people. Do not rely on the media to support Obama in the least unless their last name is Olbermann and Maddow. The other 99% percent are in it to get there free bbqs in AZ...they can't stand Chicago in the summer...
Consider me also disappointed in Brokaw. I used to have a lot more respect for him back in his nightly news days, but his work this year on campaign coverage has erased most of that respect.
I think Tom Brokaw is working on a sequel to his "Greatest Generation" and is concerned that a new generation, led by Obama/Biden, may do great things. Or maybe he enjoys NBC's Press the Meat that does not require heavy lifting.
Of course these guys weren't watching the same convention we were, because they won't shut the fuck up. I didn't see the "analysis" because, like others, I've had C-SPAN on all week (and thank Universe for it or I'd be swinging baseball bats indiscriminately by now), but I'm betting none of 'em saw more than a couple of minutes of Kerry's absolutely tremendous speech, for example.
Last night was a cohesive, on-message series of wonderful work. The Big Dog gave a terrific speech, delivered with his usual high competence (and I agree that the section excerpted by Kevin in a previous post was a highlight). Biden was Biden, which is what's scaring the right and the pundits; he's genuine and passionate in a way that people really are hungry for. Even Madeleine Albright kicked a little ass, and I was rather charmed by that low-key rear admiral. An outstanding team effort in the eyes of anyone who actually watched and listened to it.
Thanks to the Net we can ignore those pompous asses.
I think most Americans still get their information from TV.
brokaw has always been an idiot. never understood why
he's gotten a free ride.
he's always worn a shit-eating smirk when he's talked about/to clinton.
and i still remember an interview in 1989 he did w
george and barbara bush that he began by saying "america has fallen in love with barbara bush".
a shill-now and always.
What you have to know about Brokaw is that he's a staunch republican. Always has been.
Years ago I helped a friend move his mother to an assisted living facility. She had been a reporter for a Orange county newspaper and big in republican party politics (Orange County,Cal). Her walls were covered with photos of her and and republican pals (Nixon,Regan,Wilson,John Wayne ect) you can't believe how many Brokaw was in.
hey troubleman,
What would happen if a presidential candidate was known to have ties with an Iranian spy. How bad would that be?
McCain/Chalabi
You can't win with these guys. Obama is too polished - so he's arrogant and not ready to be president because he's all talk or something. And Biden isn't a fabulous orator like Obama so he's no good too.
I thought Joe Biden gave a great speech and came across as a real person. After watching him on the Sunday shows and during the presidential primaries, I didn't have a very positive impression of him. But his speech last night was very humanizing and he came across as humble but also a strong fighter. And his momma is absolutely adorable.
So, why is it Tom Brokaw's job to tell us the convention sagged? It that "news" in any recognizable form? I really wish less of the punditry critique was of the form "these pundits are wrong" and more was of the form "these pundits are not doing journalism and shouldn't be there." And I don't mean that as a shot at Kevin, it's just that there's been a ton of this sort of thing in the blogosphere over the past three days, and little of it gets at the point that Tom Brokaw's opinion is irrelevant.
troubleman, i misremembered: ayers didn't do time because the charges were dropped due to prosecutorial misconduct (not gaming of the system).
and he wasn't party to murder; i have no idea where you get that from. three of his fellow weatherpeople blew themselves up, although he had nothing to do with that.
brucds points to the interesting part: like a number of front-line new lefties of the late '60s, ayers came from big money, and that certainly assisted in his rehab.
nonetheless, your fears continue to be misplaced (and your information incomplete).
I'd be really interested to find out more about comparison numbers -- who is watching where? I think CNN is doing a little better at actually letting people hear what's going on, and I agree that C-SPAN is like an oasis. But what are independents and undecideds learning and hearing, I wonder?
PBS has also been covering pretty much all the speeches. Their commentators are more interesting and less hysterical than MSNBC's.
And why did MSNBC put their panels across the street from a TRAIN station? WTF?
They lost me when they talked over Rusty Schweitzer and you could hear the great crowd reaction. They finally cut to him just as he was waving goodbye. I am sooooo tired of Pat Buchanan I could spit.
I DO however go back and forth about whether they are hitting John McCain hard enough. You know that ReThug convention will be character assassination from gavel to gavel. I fear a repeat of 2004.
Then I switch in a bipolar fashion and think, "Not this time. It won't work again. It will turn off the voters this time." I hope it comes too close to the Dems, and people see the contrast between policy proposals and the emptiness of name-calling.
I hope the better angels DO better this time.
On PBS, thought Biden was great. More of this, please.
But the PBS folks can be as unimaginative as the rest. Debby Elliot is particularly formulaic. After Biden's speech, she asked one of her reporters, a Mr. Henley, whether the party had put the Clinton problem "behind it." Henley, bless his heart, responded, "Not if we don't stop talking about it." !!! Only from Rachel Maddow do you get that on TV. Hope Debby got the message.
If you wonder why TV stars like Brokaw lean toward McCain, remember they are very wealthy and have prospered under Bush/Cheney and their tax cuts. McCain equals the same is a bright promise. It creeps into their world view and, therefore, into their coverage. Obama is a threat to their accumulating greater wealth and, in their minds, greater poower.
I think most Americans still get their information from TV.
Watched the whole thing last night on C-SPAN. Out of curiousity, did CNN air more McCain attack adds during the ad breaks?
I missed the speeches but my sister and brother-in-law (a McCain guy)were so moved that they both cried. That's my peeps on the streets...
Being a millionaire news anchor, Brokaw's bread is buttered on the McCain side of the street.
Pay no attention to the traditional media (hereafter the "TradMed" ) and their coverage of conventions. I was there, and they were lazy jackasses who never came out of their glass cages. Their superficialty was breathtaking.