Hillary Clinton Followup

shortstop, there's two different issues (well, three; i'll get to the third in a moment).

bill clinton believes that hillary clinton would be a better president than barack obama. we all know that. so for him to claim that obama is the best possible candidate would be widely - and accurately - seen as a phony remark. so he doesn't make it.

what he does say, for example, in the abc news interview, is: ""I'm not, and I never was mad at Senator Obama. I think everybody's got a right to run for president if he qualifies under the Constitution, and I would be the last person to ever begrudge anybody their ambition, and he was a superbly gifted candidate in this election, and had a great operation."

and "Clinton was asked if Obama is ready to be president, and said, 'You can argue that no one is ever ready to be president?He has shown a keen strategic sense in his ability to run an effective campaign. He clearly can inspire and motivate people and energize them, which is an important part of being president, and he is smart as a whip so there is nothing that he can't learn.'

http://www.politicususa.com/en/Bill-Clinton-World-News-Tonight

after all, was bill clinton ready to be president? no, he wasn't, and he'd be the first to agree.

so i think that he's saying and doing perfectly acceptable things and he will tonight as well.

third point: what i really think is beneath you, shortstop, is claiming that clinton has an "adolescent's control over his emotions," he "needs constant praise," and he has to be the "center of attention." beyond the obvious fact that politics is full of narcissists, i don't think any of that is the kind of thing that those of us who only know clinton (or anyone else, for that matter) through the tv screen and the printed page should be armchair psychologizing about.

clinton gave a great speech for kerry in 2004 at the convention; he'll do the same tonight.

we should leave the clinton psyche for the bottom-feeders like maureen dowd....

An outstanding, classy, speech by Hillary Clinton!

Kari

She knocked that ball right out of the park with bases loaded.

She made an excellent, utilitarian speech. Hit all the hot buttons and was careful to insert "his-name-here" as the person to vote for.

I will, of course, and not holding my nose. Just with a resigned sigh.

I'm expecting more from the Big Dawg.

Great speech ruined by CNN allowing an idiot delegate go on and on about how it convinced her that Hillary deserved to be president and Obama did not. I hope Howard Dean kicks her ass and strips her of being a delegate.

Fantastic. Great speech, great delivery, and finally someone is hitting the Repubs where they live.

I'm sure the idiot Media will drag it and her through the dirt by the morning...

CNN's repsonse was typical.

You'll hear them gripe about the orange dress, the failure to mention Obama by name enough, and then they'll run right out and interview the same fourteen last-ditchers they interviewed earlier in the week.

You can change the government, you can change the value of pi, easier than you can change the Narrative.

On the tombstone of the Republic will be the epitaph 'Killed By A Story Arc'.

I thought she hit it exactly right. In fact, that could be the best speech she ever gave. I don't know how you could ask more of her.

What drives me nuts is the sports-bar style post game commentary. Even the NPR stuff was lame. They've got to fill the airtime, they don't really know what's going on, and they're too lazy, or too inept, to find out. So, it's all about the feud.

"So, it's all about the feud."

How true.

That's why I wish the Obama campaign would simply isolate about two-to-four issues -- all economic, ideally -- and beat them to death on the campaign trail.

Hillary ran for president for her own reasons. I'm sure her reasons included service as well as ego. She had her own message and goals. If she really believed in her own campaign, it's unfair to berate her for not being as enthusiastic about Obama's campaign, no matter how hard she may try to be a Democratic team player. The reverse would be true as well.

The quicker the Democrats focus on a clear, compelling message, the quicker the feud -- and John McCain -- will go away.

A "Heinz 57" agenda never works. Jobs as an issue trumps the plight of dyslexic left-handed lesbians in most households, regardless of the validity of the lesbians' complaint.

The uncomfortable fact is that the Democratic party is always divided. Will Rogers pegged it: "I am not a member of an organized political party. I am a Democrat."

Bill Nichols, managing editor of Politico.com, told all DC news radio WTOP that Hillary gave only a "perfunctory" performance -- a "bare minimum of support for Obama." She "did what she had to do, but she barely did what she had to do." He said Hillary spoke primarily to her supporters, and the Obama campaign probably was okay with this speech, but it wasn't the "unifying moment they'd hoped it would be."

He said the Obama campaign was "realistic" about this speech and that Hillary "did do enough that they'll be able to move on from this."

Listen here:
http://wtop.com/emedia/130431.mp3

I really don't know who this guy was listening to, but I don't think it was Hillary.

The Politico had that review leftover from June.

I was getting really depressed watching the unbelievably bland and passionless speeches by Sebelius, then Warner... wondering what the hell this party stands for if they can't muster fire and vision after 8 years of what the Rs have done to the country... and then Deval Patrick started to give me some hope... and then I thought Hillary knocked it OUT of the park, better for me than any speech I can remember Bill giving, and I had to wonder if Obama was wondering if he should have put her on the ticket... guess we'll see how Biden does! Hillary had VISION to counter the Rove/Cheney view of the world and that's what the Dems need. The earlier part of the evening made me very very very worried about this party!

The "Twin Cities" joke was hilarious! I hope Obama & Co. are smart enough to make that a buzzword of this convention, 30 second ads, etc. GREAT GREAT LINE. Whoever wrote Hillary's speech deserves a big fat raise! And I'm a big Obama supporter!

At first Hillary sounded like she was still running, but by the end she was golden.

Wow.

I thought Clinton did a great job of balancing playing to her supporters and supporting Obama. It was the best speach I have ever seen her give. Her message was clear and I think overall the message of the convention has been clear - it isn't about her, it isn't really about Obama - it is about taking back the White House and the country.

I would give her an 8.5 for execution and a 9.9 for degree of difficulty.

She was in a tough spot given all the build-up, but she talked about her issues and then explained why she wanted Obama. I'm not sure what else we could have asked from the woman.

We'll see what president drop-pants has to say tonight. The way Bill Richardson told it last night, its Bill and not Hill that's prolonging the grudges.

We'll see what president drop-pants has to say tonight. The way Bill Richardson told it last night, its Bill and not Hill that's prolonging the grudges.

That's quite obvious from the Big Dog's demeanor and commentary, even in the last couple of weeks. Still, I imagine he'll get it together, if only because he won't want to be remembered as a petty grudge holder. mr. shortstop remarked that the biggest thing safeguarding Bill against making an ass of himself tonight will be Hillary's incredible speech--the guy's nothing if not competitive!

I thought it was a great speech and I agree with the person who pointed out the level of difficulty factor - it would be a challenging speech to give for anyone. Nonetheless, I think the people who keep harping on whether or not Obama regrets not choosing her as his VP sound a bit naive and ridiculous. Think of it. She did a good job of bandaging the wounds last night, but it would have seemed like the most contrived political move yet to name her the VP. Considering how petty some of her supporters have been, I can imagine them not voting for an Obama-Clinton ticket merely because of the billing order. I would have voted for Hillary in a heartbeat, had she won, despite the fact that I favored Obama months before she conceded. That is putting your values ahead of your pride - something Hillary did masterfully in her speech last night.

jen f, sadly, there are people so completely unhinged by clinton-hate, of both bill and hillary, that yes, they believe bill clinton will sabotage obama, and yes, they can't stfu about how hillary should have said "this" or "that" instead of accepting that she gave an excellent speech.

it's incredibly sad and pathetic to see people descend to this level of foolishness based entirely on media stereotypes that they've absorbed (all the while thinking what brilliantly independent thinkers they are) but there you have it.

Anyone else notice that at the beginning of Hillary's speech, when she says she is "a proud mother; a proud Democrat; a proud American; and a proud supporter of Barack Obama," she did not say she was a proud wife?

Shortstop -

Sabotage seemed a good word since it implies small acts designed to undermine. Sabot being the wooden shoe the peasants used. And no one who has ever heard a Bill speech expects this one to be a good speech either. He is long winded. ALWAYS.

Sabotage seemed a good word since it implies small acts designed to undermine.

Still completely unrelated to anything actually said in this thread.

Look, I'll spell it out even more. I don't think Bill Clinton is going around consciously trying to undermine Obama. I think he's got an adolescent's control of his emotions and he's patently incapable of hiding them, particularly when they're negative. He also needs constant praise and petting, and is uncomfortable when someone else is the center of attention, most especially someone in the Democratic Party. Some or all of that may be reflected in his speech tonight, and if it is, it will have nothing to do with "sabotage."

Clinton only got up a second or two after the camera panned back to him.

This kind of microscopic analysis of people's facial expressions and body language is beyond silly. Clinton was clearly beaming through the whole speech, enormously proud of his wife. Beyond that obvious observation, anything else is mind reading.

Sorry you feel that way, howard, but unlike your vague accusations of "Clinton hate," the Big Dog's record since June is pretty solidly supportive of his inability to get past this loss. Bill Clinton has yet to say, even when asked directly in interviews, that he thinks Obama is qualified. He mutters darkly and dramatically to reporters about not being able to "speak freely" on the 2008 election. Sigh.

The guy's been behaving like a sulky child since Hillary conceded, in direct contrast to how Hillary has conducted herself. If he puts all that away tonight and gives us a great party- and candidate-supporting speech, you'll hear me cheering all the way on the west coast. There couldn't be a bigger or more admiring fan of what Hillary accomplished last night than I.

so for him to claim that obama is the best possible candidate would be widely - and accurately - seen as a phony remark. so he doesn't make it.

Who said anything of the sort? Do you honestly not recognize the difference between admitting basic qualification and "claiming that Obama is the best possible candidate"? Really?

what i really think is beneath you, shortstop, is claiming that clinton has an "adolescent's control over his emotions," he "needs constant praise," and he has to be the "center of attention." beyond the obvious fact that politics is full of narcissists, i don't think any of that is the kind of thing that those of us who only know clinton (or anyone else, for that matter) through the tv screen and the printed page should be armchair psychologizing about.

Howard, Clinton is not the still-mysterious spouse of an up-and-coming new politician. This guy has been firmly in the public eye for 17 years, plenty of time for people to form some easily supportable opinions about his personality strengths and weaknesses. The latter, it's pretty generally agreed, include a particularly large case of narcissism, a rotten temper and a tendency to openly display his (high) emotions.

I didn't pull a bunch of stuff out of thin air and slap it on some shadowy figure, for heaven's sake; we've all had almost two decades to watch this guy's public behavior and see many of the same things, both positive and negative, play out over and over. My observations about his conduct since Hillary's concession were built on that foundation of 17 years' worth of events, not some suggestion that his wife's primary defeat has caused him to suddenly exhibit strange new behaviors.

clinton gave a great speech for kerry in 2004 at the convention; he'll do the same tonight.

Clinton's wife wasn't an odds-on favorite who lost to Kerry in 2004. I hope he gives a stupendous speech tonight. As I said, I'll be the first to say so.

Somewhat amusingly from my perspective, I've been yelling at petty critics of Hillary's speech over at Benen's all day. I sure as hell don't deny that there are people who are being knee-jerk hypercritical of the Clintons on a very broad level. I do note that hastily assuming that anyone who criticizes some specific Clinton behavior is an "unhinged hater," and indulging in rank mischaracterizations of that person's statements, is not a particularly credible way of demonstrating a superior sense of balance.

That great speech will be hard for Bill to top. Her great performance makes it much less likely that Bill will be petty.

POI: a true couch potato will settle for nothing less than a hide-a-bed permanently deployed. Sitting on a couch is bad for the heart.