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Debate Liveblogging - 10.07.2008
DEBATE LIVEBLOGGING....Sure, it's going to be a townhall format, but is it a small town format? Because we all know that small town values are where it's at these days. Gentlemen, start your engines.
Wrapup – There was more tit-for-tat spatting this time than in the previous debate, but not really anything substantively new. They both had pretty much the same talking points as they did in Oxford, and neither one was especially sharp tonight.
Obama was not at his best, but his answers were mostly fairly clear and straightforward. He did OK. McCain struggled at first, then picked up a bit later, but overall seemed sort of testy and off his feed. And what was with his "that one" reference to Obama? That's not presidential, my friends.
On specific topics: McCain did poorly on energy; Obama did well. McCain did OK on the financial crisis; Obama did much better. McCain blew the "priorities" question; Obama handled it nicely and gets points for not completely accepting Tom Brokaw's framing. McCain did OK on entitlements; so did Obama. Healthcare was sort of a botch for both guys. Overall, a modest but definite victory for Obama.
UPDATE: The CNN insta-poll says Obama won 54%-30%. I'm not surprised Obama won, but I'm a little surprised he won so strongly. I suspect this has something to do with the increasing comfort level with Obama as the debates progress, and also with the steadiness he's demonstrated during the financial crisis. In any case, it's very, very bad news for McCain. Once the comfort level with Obama increases to this level, McCain is doomed.
UPDATE 2: CBS insta-poll of uncommitted voters says Obama won 39%-27%.
10:33 – McCain: "What I don't know is what the unexpected will be." Yogi Berra would be proud.
10:31 – "What don't you know and how will you learn it?" This is just a variation on the old "What's your greatest weakness?" chestnut. Jeers to Brokaw for asking it.
10:26 – Oh please, not preconditions again. Not the League of Democracies. Please. It's like a Kabuki play.
10:24 – OK, we finally have an issue that men care about more than women: Russian energy. Who knew? UPDATE: Iranian nukes too!
10:16 – By the way, didn't McCain sound kind of whiny a couple of minutes ago with his "If Obama gets more time then I want more time too" schtick?
10:15 – McCain once again says he knows how to get Osama but he's not going to tip his hand about how to do it. Sheesh.
10:11 – McCain is really struggling to make Obama sound like a warmonger for wanting to kill Osama if we find him in Pakistan. It's just too much of a stretch for him.
10:10 – Is there anything that men react to more strongly than women? Come on guys, get in touch with your feelings!
10:07 – Once again, McCain is noticeably more comfortable with national security issues than with domestic issues. In the first 40 minutes of the debate McCain tripped over his own words frequently and found himself struggling for words and ideas. Now that we're onto foreign policy, he's far more fluent.
10:05 – Obama is oddly tongue-tied on the subject of humanitarian interventions.
10:02 – McCain and Obama agree that America is the greatest nation on earth. Whew. I'm glad we got that cleared up.
9:58 – Obama: "It's important to crack down on insurance companies that are cheating you." The focus group has gone off the charts. Even the men (who don't react nearly as strong as women) reacted fairly strongly.
9:54 – McCain's "math" on healthcare is a total ramble. I wonder how many people have any idea what he's talking about?
9:52 – When the candidates attack their opponent's plan (as Obama is doing right now on healthcare), the focus group doesn't like it. But is that because they don't like attacks, or is it because they're agreeing that the stuff being attacked really is bad?
9:46 – Obama wants wind and solar. Much better! Everybody likes wind and solar.
9:44 – McCain gets a total softball on his environmental plans. But he's blowing it! Nuclear power is safe! We can reprocess all the toxic waste! Even if that's true, it's a bad answer. Then he follows up with a bit of incoherent rambling.
9:41 – McCain: "Social Security isn't that tough." Well, that's true enough. But on Medicare, McCain thinks the answer is a commission. Hmmm.
9:39 – Obama is getting pretty wonky about his tax plans. But the focus group loves it!
9:33 – McCain didn't seem anxious to mention his gigantic corporate tax cut.
9:28 – Obama hasn't said "John is right" yet. Is this deliberate?
9:27 – Obama says energy is priority #1, healthcare is #2, and education is #3. He refused to take Brokaw's bait and demagogue Social Security. Good for him.
9:24 – McCain wants "all of the above." Literally. He's in serious ramble mode on what his highest priority will be as president.
9:23 – No bear DNA yet, but McCain has a new one: Obama voted for "an overhead projector for a planetarium in Chicago, Illinois." Take that!
9:21 – Isn't Bill Ayers really the source of all our economic woes? Why hasn't McCain pointed that out yet?
9:20 – Obama keeps talking about George Bush and how he mishandled the economy. Why is he unwilling to say the words "Republican Party" instead?
9:18 – American workers are the best exporters and the best importers in the world? What is McCain talking about?
9:17 – Neither candidate wants to admit the obvious, namely that the economy is going to get worse before it gets better. I guess I don't blame them.
9:15 – Obama, on the other hand, actually did a pretty good job of explaining how TARP might help ordinary workers. But now it's back to tit-for-tat against McCain.
9:12 – Oliver wants to know how the bailout bill is going to help people like him. McCain isn't even pretending to answer the question. Instead he's just attacking Obama and his "cronies" who supported Fannie Mae.
9:09 – Is McCain really serious about Meg Whitman as Secretary of the Treasury?
9:07 – I have no idea whether these "dial groups" that CNN monitors during the debate have any validity at all, but I'm fascinated by them regardless. And the dial group, against expectations, really didn't like McCain's idea of bailing out homeowners directly.
9:05 – Yes! Obama wants to fire all those AIG execs who took that $400,000 junket. The focus group goes wild!
9:01 – Wolf says there will be no rambling or filibustering tonight. Why? Because there's a clock. That really doesn't seem to have stopped rambling or filibustering before, but I guess there's a first time for everything.
8:59 – Everybody at CNN thinks that everyone else at CNN is absolutely right about everything they've just said.
NY Times editorial just out:
Senator John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin have been running one of the most appalling campaigns we can remember. ..
They have gone far beyond the usual fare of quotes taken out of context and distortions of an opponent's record ? into the dark territory of race-baiting and xenophobia...
In a way, we should not be surprised that Mr. McCain has stooped so low, since the debate showed once again that he has little else to talk about...
"9:20 ? Obama keeps talking about George Bush and how he mishandled the economy. Why is he unwilling to say the words "Republican Party" instead?"
last night i was saying the same thing -- in fact, i was throwing stuff at my teevee and shrieking "say REPUBLICAN!"
i was yelling the same thing at my teevee during the first obama-mccain debate.
but in the calm of the next day, while reading your blow-by-blow it occurs to me that obama is deliberately not blaming/demonizing VOTERS who self-identify as republicans and instead places the blame on the individuals (bush, rumsfeld, mccain, etc) as a beginning to attempt to heal the divisions which the mccain-palin ticket have been actively seeking to widen.
this tactic will serve obama well during his presidency, enabling him to more easily bring republicans in to the discussions.
NY Times editorial just out:
Senator John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin have been running one of the most appalling campaigns we can remember. ..
They have gone far beyond the usual fare of quotes taken out of context and distortions of an opponent's record ? into the dark territory of race-baiting and xenophobia...
In a way, we should not be surprised that Mr. McCain has stooped so low, since the debate showed once again that he has little else to talk about...
"9:20 ? Obama keeps talking about George Bush and how he mishandled the economy. Why is he unwilling to say the words "Republican Party" instead?"
last night i was saying the same thing -- in fact, i was throwing stuff at my teevee and shrieking "say REPUBLICAN!"
i was yelling the same thing at my teevee during the first obama-mccain debate.
but in the calm of the next day, while reading your blow-by-blow it occurs to me that obama is deliberately not blaming/demonizing VOTERS who self-identify as republicans and instead places the blame on the individuals (bush, rumsfeld, mccain, etc) as a beginning to attempt to heal the divisions which the mccain-palin ticket have been actively seeking to widen.
this tactic will serve obama well during his presidency, enabling him to more easily bring republicans in to the discussions.
Everybody at CNN thinks that everyone else at CNN is absolutely right about everything they've just said.
CNN is corporate media and that is a classic example of corporate group think. The only way you survive in a corporation is to buy in to the group think. It's a lot like being in the Army - you'll do things the Army way because you have no choice.
Not Phil Gramm, John? BTW Meg came on well after ebay had 12 employees.
At least we aren't going to be treated to right-wing pudit odes to erectile reaction caused by McCain tomorrow.
McCain: "Fannie and Freddie...you probably don't know what those are, Oliver..."
McCain is so creepy when he gets so close to the crowd
My quick take is that McCain is coming across pretty horribly. He seems tired, tongue-tied, and grumpy. Trouble laying out a complete thought.
What i she obsession with this overhead projector.
If McCain uses "my friends" one more time - I'm going to kick his butt fersure! He ain't my friend.
Half an hour in, and Obama hasn't been going "Uhhhhh....." in between his sentences so far. Thumbs up!
Brokaw keeps complaining that the candidates are going over time after they're done speaking. Just say, "Time's up, Senator" when appropriate.
Learning about planets is foreign, Chicago-machine-ish, and possibly a Muslim thing to do. Why did Richard Daley's corrupt children want to go to the planetarium? How dishonorable.
No one really wants to hear the truth - that the economy is in deep trouble, that we're all going to have to make sacrifices, and though wealth hasn't trickled down, sacrifice MUST and should be shared across the economic board. No more golden parachutes, no more lobbyists writing regulatory law, and no more favors done for big business. Any further bail outs must be for the middle class and lower income - not the top 10% of this society.
McCain reminds me of Chucky!
you know if u replace "my friends" with "you dumbasses" McCain becomes more believable
good one
McCain: "Back in the Hoover administration..."
oh he said my friend again!
McCain wants a commission to propose medicare reform. If commissions were any good, why can't they tell us why Medicare is still paying medical schools to graduate fewer doctors?
Brokaw once again tees up a Social Security-bashing question.
Obama: Talks about tax policy instead.
McCain: "We know what the solutions for Social Security are. Sit down across the aisle and do whatever happy smiley magic bipartisan people would do. Obama will raise taxes, blah, blah, blah..."
I agree with you, Obama needs to run against the Republic Party and hang that millstone on McBush. I don't understand why he doesn't emphasize "eight years of Republican control by McCain's cronies and the country is in distress. Why would anyone want eight more years of that?"
McCain screwed-up asking for this format.
The walking around shows McCain has mobility problems. He moves awkwardly. He looks old.
McCain really has a boner for nuclear power. At least he pronounces it correctly.
Says we can solve the storage problem by reprocessing the nuclear waste as France does. The U.S. has resisted doing that because reprocessed fuel can be used for weapons. Wouldn't this be a problem when trying to enforce the NPT?
During the enviroment question did McCain just basically spaz out and have a dementia attack? Jeez, that rambling mess rivaled the best efforts of Palin.
Wow, it seems that every time McCain attacks Obama, the ticker drops, but when Obama directly criticizes McCain, the meters rise....
is it me, or is it really happening like that?
oh no he didn't just refer to Senator Obama as "that one"... its gonna get ugly folks
What did McCain mean by "that one"
Is anyone keeping track of how many 'my friends' McCain has blurted? If I took a shot for each time he said it, I'd be on the floor by now.
McCain earlier said that protectionism makes the economy worse, citing Herbert Hoover.
Now he's saying that drilling for oil will lower gas prices in the U.S.
Oil is an international market. So, how would McCain guarantee that all this drilled oil would be sold only to Americans without some kind of protectionism?
"Whoops, I'm out of time, Tom! Heh, heh, heh."
I wish Brokaw would shut the fuck up about going over time. He only seems to mention it to scold Obama while giving McCain a free pass.
Is that why my bank is based in DE? That makes total sense.
word up, why does Chucky get to do all the talking and bashing, well then again, he might be carrying a nuclear bomb in his pocket! tom u skerrred
One hour in, and nobody's melted down yet...
McCain likes HIS kind of town halls, where he gets laughs for his lame humor that just falls flat here. God, he's pathetic!
The McCain Doctrine: Surge!
the CNN focus group seems to hate McCain and love Obama
I don't care how troops come home, just bring them home!
"That requires a cool hand at the tiller"; is that how anyone in America thinks of McCain?
Ah! A good question about balancing national security interests with humanitarian concerns.
Obama: Straddles the question. Logistical support for peacekeepers in Darfur is the only specific thing he mentions.
McCain: Ignores the question and attacks Obama on Iraq timelines. Rambles on about "a steady hand," "Somalia," "marines to Lebanon,"...
Hey, I thought the black guy was supposed to be a terrorist. He doesn't sound like a terrorist.
"My Friends, I can't keep this shit-eating grin stable for much longer...my friends"
When is McCain going to define this Iraq war victory, what does that exactly mean? If not the Iraqis taking responsibilty for their own security and finances?
McCain actually is doing a good defense of his health plan. It's total BS, of course, but I think a lot of people will buy it. The defense of buying across state lines probably made a lot of sense to people. What they don't realize is that the only companies that will survive such a plan will be the ones that move to states with no regulations. So some state will become the Delaware of health care.
Oh cool, Obama just explained that.
What strategy succeeded in Iraq?
did John McCain say he knew Teddy Roosevelt? or he was his idol?
McCain wouldn't know a big stick if it hit him on the forehead! Get him O!!!!
If MCains knows how to get Bin Laden, he should tell us now so there are no more losses in Iraq or Afghanistan.
If McCain knows how to get Bin Ladin then, why hasn't he gotten him?