Country First?

and the audience-o-meter dips when Sarah claims that McCain but partisanship aside to work on the bell out.

Palin: "We need real change from business as usual in Washington which is why I'm proud to run with a real maverick, John McCain."

WHY IS SHE GETTING AWAY WITH THAT?

SHOOT HER! SHOOT HER DEAD NOW!!!!!

Can we have a BS meter on the bottom of the screen, please? It should be off the tracks for what she is saying.

OK, seriously, New Rule for Debates:

Provable, known lies are to be punished immediately with electric shocks to the genitals, increasing in intensity with each repetition or new lie.

Palin would be charred bacon by now.

pew pew pew pew pew pew.... laser kitties are shooting at her right now!

Biden is not on the top of his game from what I've seen.

The instrument has yet to be invented that could measure the density of the bullshit and the amount of the gall in her claims. I'm actually losing track of them.

Biden is doing great responding to the McCain healthcare plan. He is being solid, detailed, and concrete -- which SP is certainly not.

Yay for the Bridge to Nowhere! Made the audience break its pledge...

Hey, I'm sympathetic, but Biden's mispeaking is really throwing things off.

What happened to Biden just now... that he couldn't get the words out?

At least he got the "bridge to nowhere" zinger... that was good!

I take it all back. Biden totally nailed Palin on the windfall tax.

"Darn right we need tax relief."

Not a good comment to make on a day when your $250,000 household income is in the papers. Luckily, "middle class" is so vague a category that it spans families who have PB&J for dinner all the way up to the top 5% of earners.

OK: in light of the SP comment on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, bring up Rick Davis... please please please.

Biden: "The middle class needs tax relief." Palin: "Darn right we need tax relief."

She's mutating into Tina Fey...only not as funny.

That bankruptcy stuff was an opening for Palin; unfortunately, McCain was on the wrong side of the issue, and Palin probably doesn't know jack squat about it anyway.

"Clean green natural gas"???

WTF?

White flag of surrender! Methinks someone's starting to crack a little.

Iraq War: Biden in a knockout. Palin just lies, lies, lies.

So....neither of them supports gay marriage? wtf?

Biden is speaking very comprehensively and intelligently about foreign issues... Sarah sounds rehearsed to me.

And I like his stressing the issue with Al Qaida... it can't be stressed enough.

Palin evidently thinks 'Petraeus' is some kind of talisman; CNN's focus group isn't buying.

So....neither of them supports gay marriage? wtf?

I ended a temporary media blackout (walking in from the parking lot that is) at this section, and also thought, wtf?

Can someone explain the Obama/Biden position, and how Ifill thinks that seems to agree with McCain/Palin which is no to gay marriage?

Pakistan/Iran: Biden's back on his home ground, and Palin's losing it.

Meanwhile, the NYT is reporting that current policies are on track to solve the immigration problem. Think of all the money we'll save on that fence!

Palin is using many of the same soundbites that McCain used in in the last debate...that he lost. Hmmm.

She is so effing rehearsed it's almost funny.

Oh, Joe brought it home with the Bush comparisons. Over and over-nice.

I guess the format of the debate is set in stone, but Ifill really isn't pressing either Biden or Palin to actually address her questions. I guess there's a limit to what she can do.

According to Lehrer, the debates are his. He is the auteur. If Ifill is failing it's more than likely it's because she's long been a hack.

The debates traditionally suck, and traditionally it's because the moderators are uninformed and incompetent.

Biden; Facts matter! YES!

Now, say: Barack Obama is the president we need because he lives in the reality-based world.

Her comments on Afghanistan sound like an afterthought... "oh, oh...NOW I remember what I was supposed to say!" And I hate the way she says nuclear... a la Bush...

Neither Obama nor Biden have challenged the claim that the surge worked. Big mistake.

Biden should blast Republicans in general rather than Bush in particular at least some of the time.

I can't believe she's accusing anyone of flip-flops. Can we remind people of McCain's positions on the economy in the last weeks, hmmmm?

Sarah: "I really feel like an outsider... I don't understand how you guys in Washington operates"...

I know that she's trying to sound oh shucks and all... but she is coming off just plain ol' naive.

I can agree or disagree with her about McCain knowing what it takes to win a war, and knowing evil, but every time she says that, I mainly am reminded how little experience she has.

I do appreciate her continual stabs of George W. Bush.

Hopefully, those can be turned into some nice commercials against Republicans and everything they have wrought in the past 8 years.

Palin: "Thankfully McCain doesn't ask me to check my opinions at the door."

...which explains the media access, right?

Kevin @ 10:08

I really thought that this format was going to benefit Palin much more than Biden, but I thought that answer Biden gave, while awesome, was begging for a follow-up, were that only allowed.

My wife just got bingo. "Executive experience" did it. Dammit.

Why does Gwen Awfull ask third rate job interview questions?

"What is your biggest weakness?"

"Oh, I work too hard. Everyone agrees, I work too hard."

Biden just choked up, totally flummoxing Palin.

Joe Biden's comments about the struggles of raising children alone and wondering whether his children were going to make it is definitely the most emotional part of the debate. Men and women love him when he gets going.

Palin said "when John tapped me..." I knew he had a good reason for choosing her.......

Offtopic, but very related: Have Bank Loans dried up? http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/10/01/interbank-lending-ted-oped-cx_ar_1001reynolds.html%20http:/

This was linked to from FARK. I have no idea what to make of it. Published in Forbes by a guy from CATO, I suspect it is nonsense.

But his claim is the data shows that bank loans and credit has not dried up at all. It's an interesting claim....

I swear if I hear the freaking word 'maverick' one more time... there is not enough vodka in the world...

How are the Repubs going to accept her claim that she would appoint people of any political stripe?

Ooohh, Kevin... you were getting sick of 'maverick' at the same exact time I was... let's link pinkys!

Joe Biden's comments about the struggles of raising children alone and wondering whether his children were going to make it is definitely the most emotional part of the debate. Men and women love him when he gets going.

Single fathers and divorced fathers can't stand Biden when he says this. His and Obama's various anti-father policies, including an absolute refusal to write VAWA in a non-gendered fashion have many otherwise good liberals looking at third parties.

Here's one such view

Ifill is just horrible.

Palin makes me want to throw up

Well... my cat is officially high... we gave her catnip whenever we heard the word 'maverick'... wheeeee!

Shouldn't Palin be holding and taking care of her own baby?

Dammit! Jen got bingo AGAIN! This time it was "Get knocked down, get back up." My card sucked.

Single fathers and divorced fathers can't stand Biden when he says this. His and Obama's various anti-father policies, including an absolute refusal to write VAWA in a non-gendered fashion have many otherwise good liberals looking at third parties.

Fair enough, but there mustn't have been too many of them making up of the CNN focus group, because they were eating him up.

Why is Palin tapping the hell out of the baby's back? The baby is already asleep and doesn't need to be "soothed" although her tapping seems rather hard. The teenage daughter looks ticked.

Fair enough, but there mustn't have been too many of them making up of the CNN focus group, because they were eating him up.

That's probably very true. I wasn't watching CNN, I've just been participating in various forums where many liberal, single fathers, tear their hair out about what to do about this ticket.

Jerry,

Krugman said the same thing about credit still being available in the Princeton forum I linked to yesterday.

I had to quit watching about 15 minutes before the debate ended. I literally couldn't take another word from Palin.

I gotta say that I thought Biden did great, far better than I expected.

Palin did about what I thought she would, and used unchallenged talking-points and folksiness to fill time and try and seem like she knew what she was talking about.

With the bar so low, it's impossible to deny that she "succeeded" in what she needed to do. But I thought Biden did great, and blunted any bogus claims to be made that she "won".

Re: "Maverick"

Bret that is, whose most famous quote remains "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time--and those are pretty good odds!"

The McCain campaign in a nutshell, now having passed from the "all" to the "some" demographic.

Nepeta, so the optimists think how marvelous that at this time in America's history, people from all political perspectives are agreeing. And the pessimist notes that what they are agreeing on is that this bailout is a disaster and a scam.

Biden's demolition of the Maverick was awesome.

Biden won on substance and points, but I think Palin will have connected with the GOP base, and that's all the GOP bigwigs want.

I also was struck by how for a lot of the debate, Joe Biden acted as though HE was his party's candidate for president.

Debate transcript here:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html

I'll venture this guess: after the initial round of discussing how Palin survived, focus will turn more to specific points each debater made, as well as their overall tone. This will not serve the Republicans well, nor will polling.

Then we'll move on.

The gay marriage question, which if you read this, seems to show Palin/McCain having more guts on the issue than Biden/Obama.

" IFILL: The next round of -- pardon me, the next round of questions starts with you, Sen. Biden. Do you support, as they do in Alaska, granting same-sex benefits to couples?

BIDEN: Absolutely. Do I support granting same-sex benefits? Absolutely positively. Look, in an Obama-Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple.

The fact of the matter is that under the Constitution we should be granted -- same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospitals, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, et cetera. That's only fair.

It's what the Constitution calls for. And so we do support it. We do support making sure that committed couples in a same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same constitutional benefits as it relates to their property rights, their rights of visitation, their rights to insurance, their rights of ownership as heterosexual couples do.

IFILL: Governor, would you support expanding that beyond Alaska to the rest of the nation?

PALIN: Well, not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. And unfortunately that's sometimes where those steps lead.

But I also want to clarify, if there's any kind of suggestion at all from my answer that I would be anything but tolerant of adults in America choosing their partners, choosing relationships that they deem best for themselves, you know, I am tolerant and I have a very diverse family and group of friends and even within that group you would see some who may not agree with me on this issue, some very dear friends who don't agree with me on this issue.

But in that tolerance also, no one would ever propose, not in a McCain-Palin administration, to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations in a hospital or contracts being signed, negotiated between parties.

But I will tell Americans straight up that I don't support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one woman, and I think through nuances we can go round and round about what that actually means.

But I'm being as straight up with Americans as I can in my non- support for anything but a traditional definition of marriage.

IFILL: Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?

BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.

The bottom line though is, and I'm glad to hear the governor, I take her at her word, obviously, that she think there should be no civil rights distinction, none whatsoever, between a committed gay couple and a committed heterosexual couple. If that's the case, we really don't have a difference.

IFILL: Is that what your said?

PALIN: Your question to him was whether he supported gay marriage and my answer is the same as his and it is that I do not."

She did just well enough to lose.

(As opposed to disqualifying herself.)

Palin's vulgar and a shameless liar. She handled the talking points like a bulldog alright. She's repulsive.

And the Down Syndrome baby prop is appalling. Just please stop with the baby.

I don't forgive Biden for letting Palin get away with that "white flag of surrender bit". He should have taken that and jammed it down her throat. (not meant to be sexist - they should do the same with McCain). Why not say "this is beneath the dignity of a person who wants to be vice president. Are you saying that that anyone who opposes your policies is a traitor? Are you saying those Iraqi Veterans against the War are waving that flag? The Iraqis want us out, the American public wants us out and you and McCain want us in - your saying those who disagree with this policy of spending even more lives and dollars on a war that was based on disinformation to the American public and the world from the first, and for which even the Iraqi government wants a deadline on the presence of American troops, is in favor of surrender? I consider that to be an insult to to the American people and American principles.
But then again - Democrats.

They’ve Tanked the Economy, Trashed the Environment,
Wasted the Military, and Lied Us Into War.
Yippee, Elect Another Republican

Jerry -- It would be helpful to have the video to accompany the transcript on this one. For the very last sentence of what you've quoted, Palin started by staring for a few breaths -- it was clear she felt caught, and she was stumbling as she started. She seemed to be trying to understand what Biden was saying they had agreed to -- because what she said isn't likely to play well to the base, if it is construed as (as Biden put it) "she think[s] there should be no civil rights distinction, none whatsoever, between a committed gay couple and a committed heterosexual couple. If that's the case, we really don't have a difference."

We have had a stupid president for 8 years. Do we need another one?

Man, that winking thing is going to get really old really fast if she gets elected.

Biden crushed on the gravitas scale. She couldn't have looked much more like an eager novice if she tried. "Ah, grasshopper, you must unclench to find electoral success . . . "

Yeah, I only heard it on the radio. My take though is that Biden/Obama's view is overly complex. They need to do something, but they're afraid to do the right thing.

Now Palin hates queers for religious reasons, but her answer says that in Alaska and as VP she can put her hate aside and make sure they get equal rights.

I disagree with her, but I have more respect for her position than for Biden/Obama's way too politically thought out, basically incomprehensible, and overall gutless approach.

Hockey-Mom-O-Bot 3000!

Palin fails the Turing Test.

Palin did make a gaffe. Didn't she say something like "John McCain is the man we need to leave"?

Not to mention her hair raising sentiments on the powers of the vice president. Biden socked her good on that one.

Is there somewhere where I can see a transcript of tonight?

Because at one point (later on) Palin is talking about the variety of people who are supporting McCain, and she names "Leiberman, Guiliani, Romney and ..." a name that I just don't rcognize; something like Lingel?

I taped it, and replayed it a couple times, but I just have no idea what name she's trying to say. I'd like to see what a transcriber do with it.

Thanks.

And she called McKiernan "McClellan".

Hey, they both belong to the same set!

Howard Fineman didn't like Palin at all, and I think, for the record, most people saw her like he did. Fineman is very balanced meter to go by.

Talk is that Palin has stopped the bleeding of the McCain campaign but she still didn't prove that she is presidental material, in fact, she's pretty scary to me.

I guess McCain's consultants told her, if you can't answer the question - than don't answer, just redirect and talk about something else and Bush does that too. Oh, and Palin is going to hide from the press from now on out till November 4th. So now we are going to start looking at McCain again - and he is lying and changing his opinion ever 5 minutes. Is he senile or completely desperate?

Kevin said Obama would win by 5 points, but I think by November 4th, McCain is going to seriously be in the hole. This election could be a blowout for Obama.

Nucular . . . eye-ran . . . eye-raq

Aaachh! I am sooo tired of hearing that. I know that it's kind of a regional accent thing, but I can't express how much it makes my skin crawl.

At first I couldn''t think who the hell she was talking about, but I think it is Linda Lingle, the GOP governor of Hawaii.

Look I am not a low information voter, I'm not undecided, and I watched it with a room full of co-workers and union leaders. But with that disclaimer, Biden won by (1) meeting her soundbites and snark (whoever told her to say "say it ain't so, Joe" should be looking for a job tomorrow) with a serious attitude about the issues that count--health care, getting out of Iraq, tax relief for 95% of us rather than the richest of the rich, (2) dealing with her half-truths effectively and (3) taking it to McCain on his record. To which she responded with scripted answers. That may make Castellanos and Buchanan pee in their pants but it won't cut it with anyone who actually cares about where this country is going. And I got choked up at the end by Biden's story about talking to his kids--a gift that Sarah and her speechwriters handed him. It's over.

"This election could be a blowout for Obama."

I hope so. Otherwise it will be stolen.

Robert Earle:
Lingle. I assume she referred to Governer Linda Lingle of Hawai'i. Not a name I recognized, either.

Transcript here. (h/t jerry.)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html

I think she said, "you can't attribute all human activity to the climate."

The McCain campaign's new secret weapon: methedrine!

I hope so. Otherwise it will be stolen.

Ain't that the truth.

We can look at what happened in the debate, but something else stood out very clearly. Palin's performance was much different than in her earlier interviews with Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric. I don't think she magically improved that much. To me it's only possible to change your performance that much if you were faking BAD before and brought your A game to the debate.

The stupid trickery with Palin's performances is the kind of nonsense we would have to look forward to. America needs real leadership, not that nonsense.

John McCain can't provide real leadership and can't be trusted.

Haha, Lucy. Btw, good to see you again! Seems like a long time since primary days.

"Nucular . . . eye-ran . . . eye-raq"

"eye-ran" and "eye-raq" bug the crap out of me, too. Is it too much to ask that people learn to pronounce the name of f@@cking country? Especially now that one of them is (nominally) our ally?

Say the "Ir" like the beginning of the word "irrigation:, then say "Ron" like a man's name. Or say "Rock". Ir-Ron, Ir-rock

This isn't a matter of opinion or debate. I've worked with dozens of people from the country. They ALL pronounce that way.

BTW: Biden is only slightly better. He gets the "Ir" part right, but then says "Rack".

I was impressed with Biden- he was knowledgeable, calm, presidential.

It's a minor point, but Palin saying that "John McCain knows how to win a war" seemed like a brain fart on her part. For gods sake, the guy spent 5 years as a POW! No disrespect to McCain, but isn't being captured and held by the enemy sort of like the exact opposite of winning?

Palin, conversely, seemed wound up like someone on her tenth cup of coffee...

Yeah, she was rather hyper and bouncing off the walls, wasn't she.

I have a feeling that an awful lot of ordinary people weren't impressed

ditto!

Biden will be Vice President. Palin will sell millions of dollars of lingerie on QVC.

Hi nepeta! It has been an eternity, but we are almost there.

Cheers!

"I disagree with her, but I have more respect for her position than for Biden/Obama's way too politically thought out, basically incomprehensible, and overall gutless approach."

What is so gutless about it, Jerry ? Did you ever think that possibly Obama (religious) and Biden (religious) actually believe that they espouse ? If making sure that gay and lesbian couples have the same civil rights as you and I is gutless, well, you can include me in the gutless crowd.

A maverick? No, this country is filled with John McCains; those who will say and do anything to get what they want, and look for the same trait in their candidate. This is roughly 40 to 45 percent of population, depending on which poll you follow.

John McCain: Putting Myself First

One thing I noticed on the CNN response meter was that often the responses of men and women diverged for both candidates, although I think they were more consistent for Biden. But with Palin, as men's response went up, women's would go down. I think this was perhaps most noticeable on foreign policy questions, Iraq, Iran, diplomacy where men favored the more aggressive posture of Palin's comments.

But with Palin, as men's response went up, women's would go down.

Kind of like an audience watching "Deep Throat."

What is so gutless about it?

Their position is a nightmare. It's so complex that you have to read it 3-4 times to understand it. It's starts off such that you swear they will come out for gay marriage, but at the end, they've pulled the football away.

It doesn't leave me confident they really believe in their position. It makes me feel they know they need to take a position, but they fear taking what they know is the right position.

Bill Clinton was going to legalize gays int the military until he was sandbagged by Sam Nunn. Since then though, "don't ask, don't tell" has been widely regarded as a gutless act on Clinton's part. I'm not sure I agree with that.

But I do think that at this time, tonight, Biden's statement and position IS incomprehensible and ultimately shows itself to be gutless.

I think voters would have more respect for both Biden AND Obama were they to actually take a stand instead of waffling and trying to have it both ways.

"This election could be a blowout for Obama."

Does anyone really think that McCain is going to do any better in the up-coming debates? Someone said it looked like McCain was trying to read his blackberry during the last debate, but seriously, McCain can't even read a teleprompter with any skill at all. Personally, I think McCain is trying to hide so serious age related issues. McCain gets confused and starts reminiscing and rambling on about the Vietnam War era, like he did in the last debate, which, of course, drives home the "out-of-touch" factor.

I think Joe won the debate. However, Sarah showed herself to be a better talking head then we were led to believe. The problem with that is there is no substance. Like winking at the camera. This is not Dancing with the Stars and being cute does not a Vice President make to the Oldest man to ever run for a first term in office. Truth to tell if I were going to vote for McCain that wink would have changed everything for me. What is she winking for??? What is the big joke??? This is no joking matter and she proved not to take this whole situation serious enough for me. The economy is in the tank and war on two fronts and the person running for VP is hamming it up for the camera???

Why, yes it is the opposite of winning. And personally if I hear Maverick or POW one more time I am going to scream.

"But I do think that at this time, tonight, Biden's statement and position IS incomprehensible and ultimately shows itself to be gutless."

I completely disagree. He stated in no uncertain terms that their position is that gay and lesbian citizens should enjoy the same legal and civil rights as any other person.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/lgbt.pdf

"But I do think that at this time, tonight, Biden's statement and position IS incomprehensible and ultimately shows itself to be gutless."

I completely disagree. He stated in no uncertain terms that their position is that gay and lesbian citizens should enjoy the same legal and civil rights as any other person.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/lgbt.pdf

From the CNN sample voter group 'meter line,' the McCain Maverick Myth is clearly DOA. It immediately sank every time Palin mentioned the word, indicating that no one is buying the image of McCain as a maverick these days. The meter line also took a dive when Palin referred to the middle class as "Joe Six-Pack," etc., and when Palin resorted to folksy-speak in general. I've always thought of it as too contrived, and tonight it came across as particularly so. It also doesn't seem appropriate in a potential Vice President. But most of all, I was aggravated that Gwen Ifill did not insist that Palin answer the question at hand! She was allowed most of the time to free associate ad nauseum, when I wanted to hear her give specific answers to the questions. In spite of Palin's phony efforts to portray herself as a just a regular gal, it was Joe Biden who inadvertently demonstrated that he was US when he talked about his personal struggles as a single parent. It was apparent that Palin knew it as well.

Yucca Mountain, you should write for Biden. I thought the same thing, he should not have let that white flag of surrender insult go by.

BUT, he did pretty well. He's a politician, not a writer, which means he thinks in broad generalities, not clean incisive chunks. As a Democrat, I was not unhappy.

"I think she said, "you can't attribute all human activity to the climate." "

Posted by: jboyd

She screwed this up in one of her interviews, as well. I think she means you can't attribute all of climate change *to* human activity.

I completely disagree. He stated in no uncertain terms that their position is that gay and lesbian citizens should enjoy the same legal and civil rights as any other person.

If you say so, what I heard tonight was that Biden/Obama don't think gays can get married, presumably, even by a justice of the peace.

BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that.

I honestly have no idea what Biden said in all that. It's way too nuanced, way too politically careful for it to make its point. And he clearly did that on purpose because he would hate having people say that he and Obama support gay marriage.

And he clearly did that on purpose because he would hate having people say that he and Obama support gay marriage.

And they're going to say it anyway, which makes their nuanced position just that much more asinine.

Biden kicked ass. Because Palin was stuck with cue card talking points, he was essentially unopposed in this "debate." He had 45 minutes to dump on McCain and he used everyone of them effectively.

While a lot of us are focused on the fact that Palin didn't pee her pants, the fact is Biden hit McCain over the head time and time again. He was assured, confident and in command of the facts. Palin offered weak to non-existent resistance.

Did anyone else pick up on this gem from Palin?
And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people
What a display of maverickosity!

The forefathers left the VP flexible?

What about the 'separate but co-equal branches of government'.

Or is she taking about the ones who came up with 'one nation under god' in the pledge.

I loved Biden's answer on Cheney, but he did make a really stupid, simple error. Article II, not Article I, pertains to the Executive Branch. I love pointing out to conservatives that the first article in the Constitution is the legislature, not the article talking about their mythical Commander-in-Chief they adore so much. But Biden's point remains: the VP is in Article II, the article about the Executive.

It seem that Gov. Palin was able to iterate the talking points that she has been coached over the past five weeks but none of this will serve her well should she need to step up to take over for aged and unhealthy Pres. McCain. She didn't really hurt the ticket but a media darling isn't the leader this country will need for the trying times that lie ahead...

As an Obama supporter, I'm glad that Palin had a satisfactory performance. Otherwise McCain might have felt that a change might be needed. Romney would have shored up that running mate position well...

The important part of this debate was that Biden made a good debut onto the national stage. Press didn't pay much attention to Biden after the nomination whereas Palin had two celebrity interviews and Americans already saw what she was all about.

Biden made a good impression and looked Vice Presidential. The one thing I hate about the VP debates is how much the VPs were expected to suck up to their running mates. Why couldn't they talk more about their own personal beliefs instead of constantly referring to Obama's positions and McCain's positions. Obama and McCain will have enough press time and debate time to define themselves. The VP nominees should have spent more time defining themselves. After all, if the President dies abruptly, the VP has to step up as his/her own man/woman. We want to know what that man/woman is all about.

congratulations to jerry for being the ultimate concern troll for this thread! way to go!!

Damn! I slept through it. But the sound bites on NPR this morning reinforce the impressions here.

OK, watched it all . Biden did very well. I think he had a difficult job to talk to Palin as an equal.

She dodged questions and and refused to answer, kept going back to her experience on energy. Problem is her experience is "drill, baby, drill" with no coherent energy policy.

She stopped the hemorraging about her inspid, stupid remarks, but is way out of her league.

In any event, the economy is what's on people's minds. I have read a lot. When astute economists disagree, you know you're in trouble.

There seems to be an urgency to do something if only for psychological reasons.

But many economists feels rich investors should buy into the companies, buying their stocks, not the junk (as Warren Buffet is doing).

Whether the bailout will help is questionable, but perhaps it is better than doing nothing. Many seem to think that.

Just my thoughts.

Palin: The nice thing about McCain is that he doesn't say one thing to one group and another thing to another group. Huh? What was that all about?

Surely you jest.

palin’s scariest statement?

IFILL: Governor, you mentioned a moment ago the constitution might give the vice president more power than it has in the past. Do you believe as Vice President Cheney does, that the Executive Branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency, that it it is also a member of the Legislative Branch?

PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president’s agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we’ll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation.

combined with palin’s remark about “building our embassy, also, in Jerusalem,” we would all do well to remember that if successful, this woman would be in a position to decide the date of the apocalypse which she believes will come in her life time.

Eve Harrington. Eve Harrington. Eve Harrington.

karen marie:

I was going to mention that too. It was the scariest statement.

The VP's office is NOT a 4th branch of government. This poisonous weed of governmental theory must be exterminated.
------

Overall, the debate was a fai8lure for McCain/Palin. Palin never appeared to plausibly presidential. She appeared to be on the level of a state chair for the McCain campaign as opposed to a "serious" politician rady to take on the world.

Um, what Article in the Constitution was about the VP Joe? Was it I or II?

Kevin the comment about saying things to different groups was about Obama telling the San Fran crowd about bitter people "Clinging to their religion and guns." He doesn't say that stuff in PA.

Fact checkin' ole Joe is a full time job after this debate.

Monday morning quarterbacking, but a couple of comments:

(1) Read Juan Cole this morning for his utterly devastating dismantling of Palin. In his opinion, last night's so-called debate bore as much resemblance to a real debate as reality TV does to a Shakespearean theater production. Juan rocks! Here is a link:

www.juancole.com

(2) Palin rarely answered a direct question from Ifill, instead she just regurgitated pre-packaged, focus group-tested lines like "we need to cut taxes" and "the country wants to get away from partisan bickering", all the while lobbing the most partisan grenades her tiny brain could muster. The whole thing reminded me of a wise college professor trying to have an intelligent conversation with a snippy, uninformed sorority girl. Painful and pathetic to watch.

There was no contest - Biden did a masterful job while Palin was barely coherent.

Palin on climate change: "I'm not one to attribute every man -- activity of man to the changes in the climate." Isn't this the same backwards logic as in the Couric interview. She seems to be saying that she doesn't think climate change determines man's activities...instead of the other way around which is actually the question (and whihc seems to be the scientific consensus in spite of Sen. Coburn).

The dangers of mouthing phrases you don't understand!

I'm sorry mateo, next time any of us have a thought where we disagree with you, we'll be sure to ask your permission. Because eliminating spoken dissent is key to a managed conversation, and I appreciate your reminding us of that.

I'm sure that's what MoJo stands for. Eliminating thought, conversation, and disagreement.

It's pretty easy to call out "troll" and "concern troll", but do you have an argument?

At least OhNoNotAgain made his case as to why Biden/Obama's position on gay marriage was correct and gutsy. But you can't even do that, can you?

You can only insist that people who disagree with you are trolls and delegitimize them. You've learned your lessons well.

Whatever d00d.

Hi Kevin, speaking of the Hockey-Mom-o-Bot 3000, it actually exists! You can ask it questions here:
http://interviewpalin.com/

What happened is that Palin would have vetoed the equal benefits for same sex couples in state employment insurance etc but she was advised by (state AG or legal advisors) that not to provide equal protections/benefits would have violated the State constituion so she did not veto. She is not an advocate of gay rights..She does not "get the issue" and gets confused about stuff like legal rights.

My one-time future former- spouse-to-be and Sarah are a matching set. Garble-up a comment so she herself can't recall or understand what was said. But realize it is a personal technique. Diagram one of those run-on sentence sequences, then tell me she's presidential material.

Mark my words: Under a little pressure she will regress into malaprops, serial Freudian slips, and denials. A sreet corner urchin. If you can stand Dubya you can stand her.

It was the classic Tortoise and Hare moment. Palin was jumping through hoops and Biden was plodding forward, ignoring her attacks as if she were just a nuisance one had to endure to reach the finish line. And when in doubt, always fall back on the "white flag" argument. It was a stunning moment when Palin didn't have an answer, so she reverted to an attack. There is her Achilles Heel...the other heel is McCain: a crippled campaign.

I think she was referring to Gen. McClellan whom Lincoln replaced for not leading the Union Army effectively in the Civil War. And she chided Biden for looking backward!

No. You can't call me Joe. That's SENATOR Biden to you , young lady. Who taught you your manners?

To answer your question: when she said McCain doesn't talk about people one way in one place and another way in a different place, she was referring to Obama's "bitter" remark. This was part of her convention speech and it's been part of the stump speech ever since. Trust me, even though she didn't mention Obama by name, the gun-loving red staters got it.