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The Rumble in the Corner
THE RUMBLE IN THE CORNER....As regular readers know, I'm a fan of NRO's The Corner, which I think of as sort of a direct pipeline into the conservative id. Lately, as an Obama victory has become more and more likely, the Cornerites have started going completely around the bend, venting their frustration in lunatic conspiracy theories and manic love notes that are increasingly untethered from the real world. This afternoon, after reading their latest bunch of posts about Obama being a secret Maoist, I thought maybe I should finally write something about it. In the end I was too lazy to do it, but luckily Hilzoy came through with a post that hits all the high points I was going to make anyway. Go check it out to get a sense of how the impending doom of an Obama victory is sending conservatives into cloudcuckooland.
But why are they going so stone batty? My theory is that Obama is driving them crazy the same way that Ali drove Foreman crazy in the Rumble in the Jungle. You remember that fight, don't you? Foreman was the heavy favorite, a brawler who had dropped Joe Frazier in two rounds and seemed likely to beat Ali to a pulp. But Ali won by playing mind games on Foreman. He sat on the ropes, took hit after hit, and then taunted Foreman in the clinches to hit him even harder. An enraged Foreman kept swinging wildly, but nothing worked. Ali took everything he could dish out, and the furnace-like heat finally did Foreman in. In the eighth round, drained and exhausted, he was knocked cold by an Ali combination that ended the fight.
The same thing is happening to McCain and his supporters. They're throwing everything they have at Obama, and he's just taking it. Nothing seems to have an effect, so they keep swinging ever more wildly. But that isn't working either, and it's driving them crazy. Who is this guy? Why won't he go down? It's enraging. They just can't believe they're losing to this punk. And so they become ever more unhinged, making up wilder and wilder stories and becoming more and more enraged when they can't get any traction with them. At this rate, their next stop is a padded cell at Arkham.
Personally, I wish Obama were doing more than playing rope-a-dope: it's going to win him an election, but it might not win him the war. Still, it is pretty likely to win him the election, and it's driving lots of conservatives crackers at the same time. We could do worse, I guess.
sending conservatives into cloudcuckooland.
Sending?
We can set aside Hilzoy's fatuities.
What, exactly, have the cornerites done wrong? They have facts, they have plausible theories and considerable evidence to back them up.
The sort of content-free stupidity which we see the likes of Hilzoy putting out is indirect evidence that those theories are their supporting facts are solid.
Sorry if that troubles you.
The sort of content-free stupidity which we see the likes of Hilzoy putting out is indirect evidence that those theories are their supporting facts are solid.
Sarah, is that you, doggone it?
a,
They have facts, they have plausible theories and considerable evidence to back them up.
I suppose the reason many reasonable people are skeptical about this (remarkably) synchronous outpouring of pretentious portention is that it is surfacing now. You know, a few weeks before the election, and after McCain has fallen seriously behind in the polls. You must admit, it does bear a striking resemblance to a desperate ploy.
Double-back sorry-if-that-troubles you.
What, exactly, have the cornerites done wrong? They have facts, they have plausible theories and considerable evidence to back them up.
Yes, but in what time/space dimension do these facts reside? And on the remote planet in which these facts are embedded, what is the hue of the atmosphere?
Wingnuttia is a special time and place, in which all plausible laws of the universe are lazily suspended and logic is pushed into "The Corner".
Kevin,
Personally, I wish Obama were doing more than playing rope-a-dope: it's going to win him an election, but it might not win him the war. Still, it is pretty likely to win him the election, and it's driving lots of conservatives crackers at the same time. We could do worse, I guess.
I think you have this backwards, and it is very similar to your question as to why Obama refers to "failed economic philosophies" and not "Republican" philosophies.
I think he's trying to win the battle, the war, and the peace thereafter. Should he prevail in the election, he doesn't want to try to rebuild our country in the face of an insurgency like the one in Iraq. Not mauling 'Republicans' is something like not disbanding the Iraqi army or indulging in complete and ideologically perfect de-Baathification.
At this rate, their next stop is a padded cell at Arkham.
They're already beyond padded cell territory. Maoist vs. Stalinist? Obama a "radical" (Manchurian Candidate) intent on the subversion of America? This is a very ugly and very dangerous place.
I wish Obama were doing more than playing rope-a-dope: it's going to win him an election, but it might not win him the war.
It seems to me that he's doing pretty well at winning the war, precisely. The frustration and the ugliness coming from certain corners of Greater Wingnuttia right now are definitely helping along the dissolution of the Republican coalition. As you said earlier, it's also largely a matter of their perception of McCain as less than a true conservative, but I'm fairly confident that if Obama had taken a different approach than he has, this race would be a lot closer. The approach he's taken - basically, trying to reassure people that he knows what he's doing - has rendered him pretty well inoculated against ludicrous accusations ("terrorist sympathizer".) Had Obama decided to get in the weeds (with the possible exception of the Keating Five stuff, depending on your viewpoint), or had McCain actually spent his spring and summer defining Obama, the race would not be where it is.
Would I be giving those nutty nuts too much credit if I said I think they're putting it on? They may not know it, but they are.
All they want to do now is ensure they've got a place at their pathetic little table after the election.
Between Nov 5th and Inauguration Day, Obama will sit down for lots of TV interviews. He'll meet with government leaders like Paulson & Bernanke. He'll look and sound presidential. The non-nutty nuts who voted for McCain (most of them, I guess) will grudgingly come to accept Obama and, as the economy tanks further, be secretly glad he won.
And the nutty nuts will fight among themselves for the scraps at their table.
Isn't there another debate coming up? Perhaps that will be the equivalent of Ali's eighth round for Obama.
I'd make some sort of "Obama boma ye!" joking post here, but the next thing you know, I'd have the feds at my door...so I won't.
So the Obama roll to victory is driving the cornerites nuts - or exposing their insanity, more likely. The insanity has been there all along.
Ever wonder how the Republicans supporting Herbert Hoover felt as Roosevelt rolled to victory? Keep reading the corner. You will get a history lesson as well as a psychology lesson. I knew some of the Hoover Republicans in 1960, and nearly three decades after FDR's first victory they they were so still so angry they couldn't say "FDR" without spraying the room with spittle. Most were John Birchers then.
Fortunately for those who have to speak to the cornerites in the future, "Obama" is easier to say without spraying spittle. But when the confusion dies away, the anger will remain.
What's the saying? History doesn't actually repeat itself, but it rhymes. There will be some equivalent to the John Birch Society appear soon. Watch for it. My bet is that there will be one for Neocons and Wall Streeters, and another for the evangelicals.
It's like liberals with Regan!
Your Ali-Foreman analogy amused me. Just two days ago, a rightwing coworker told me that he thinks McCain is doing a rope-a-dope. I did a double-take; everything these people say nowadays makes me do a double-take.
Obama has not done much more than show up and sound competent.
Wall Street imploded and JonnyMac decided to detonate his campaign in a show of loyalty. Very Edo period is you ask me.
Obama wins by 8 for not being a Republican and uses his "mandate" to give us each a grand and to cover some uninsured kids. It will go down in history as the Not A Big Deal.
We all have our stories that define us and our place in the "big picture". For most, the picture is fluid and our stories morph throughout time. For others, the picture is set in stone and nothing will change one's viewpoint of reality. I believe it's borderline psychotic....but whaddoiknow.
"Obama has not done much more than show up and sound competent.
Wall Street imploded"
The Cornerites really don't see the obvious -- this is now a one issue election. McCain had pulled to even in the national polls, and even briefly edged ahead in likely electoral votes, before the credit markets melted down. There is just not enough time between now and the election to remove the economic fear that's consuming voters.
No one except those who have already drunk the koolaid will care about Ayers, Rezko, or any of the rest of it when they're in fear of losing their job, house or their retirement savings. It will seriously hurt Republicans if they focus on this stuff, as voters will see it as evidence that "they don't get it".
The only chance McCain has to turn this around is to either come up with an economic plan that convinces everyone that he is the guy who can solve their problems, or if there is some other event that makes people even more fearful that would make them look to McCain as their savior.
I just don't think that's possible. The financial situation is just too complicated for there to be a clear solution that people will embrace that strongly, and too many potential solutions hit existing hot buttons (helping the guys who got us into this mess, spending enormous amounts of taxpayer money, or nationalizing banks).
Likewise, how huge would any other kind of event have to be to make people care more about it than the economy? Russia invaded Georgia, and no votes changed. Maybe Iran bombing Israel, or a 9/11 scale attack? Not too likely.
I was making the same point to an uncle the other day with Evander Holyfield in the Ali role.
Evander had a chin the size of the rib they put on Fred Flintstone's car. The damn thing practically had its own zip code. His opponents aims jabs, rights, uppercuts and roundhouses at it.
All, as Ted Baxter used to say about Manta, "To no avail."
I think the Arkham reference is dead on. The GOP is using the tactics of Dr. Jonathan Crane to full effect in this election. They're whipping up their supporters to the point where they're calling for Obama's death during their rallies.
I fear Obama may end up resembling JFK far more than any of us would like.
Bushido @ 3:27,
Very Edo period is you ask me.
It's actually a bit eerie, isn't it. Like the Mizuno administration in 1842 all over again.
The scary thing is that they will probably be as crazy after the election as before--and go after Obama just as they went after Clinton. Are we ready for that?
Are we ready for that?
is Obama (and the Secret Service?) cause, when the GOP Base starts yelling for Obama's decapitation, you know we're into dangerous times.
Great analogy Kevin - and your further analysis is, I think, spot on until this:
"Personally, I wish Obama were doing more than playing rope-a-dope: it's going to win him an election, but it might not win him the war. "
The point is that Ali won with a decisive KO and nobody doubts that Ali was the greater boxer. Knowing when to punch and when to cover up is a type of genius that few individuals posses. I am not suggesting that Obama is perfect, but I am in no position to doubt the campaign of a guy who has gotten this far.
Ultimately, he is the way, way better boxer, but voters are in charge of delivering the KO. And that is the way it should be.
The scary thing is that they will probably be as crazy after the election as before--and go after Obama just as they went after Clinton. Are we ready for that?
Probably? You can take that to the bank...er...the treasury...er...China.
Hoping that none of the nuts at the Palin/McCain rallies shows up at an Obama ropeline (one hopes the Secret Service shares intelligence well), there are gonna be four main factions after November:
1) the dynamic between the grassroots left (like MoveOn and Kos) and the old foundation grant left, who are both gonna want lots of stuff (that's what makes 'em one faction);
2) the new Democratic majorities in the Senate (where Reid will be in cycle) and the House, where the marginal Democrats will all be much further to the right than #1;
3) the new administration, which is gonna have to disappoint somebody, and finally;
4) a shell-shocked Republican party which will be without a leader or an agenda.
This isn't Ali boma ye (weirdly, it was Ken Adelman, Reagan's arm control maven who taught Ali that phrase, he was in the Peace Corps), because BOTH fighters got into the ring in the same way: one was just better, because he knew his limits so he could turn 'em into a decisive advantage.
There ain't but two of those four who will know better than to believe their own hype: anybody guess which ones?
some equivalent to the John Birch Society appear soon.
It will be named "The Republican Party".
The GOP's increasingly unhinged behavior over the last decade has been driving out their moderate wing. Soon only the Birchers and the Christian theocrats will remain.
About two weeks ago I had lunch with an old and very dear friend who doesn't follow politics very closely and is not sports-minded. I used the term "Rope-a-dope" to describe Obama's campaign and she didn't know what I meant. (And this was before the real onslaught of the last few days, with its fascist-mob atmospherics.) I wish I had had Kevin's explanation at hand, but I think I caught the general drift: you set up your opponent to beat himself by losing his cool and flailing around, getting in a body blow when you can and gradually tiring him out.
In this political atmosphere you must bet that enough people see the over-the-top-ness that BHO pointed out for what it is. And Obama is, I hear, a very good poker player, and I think what he is doing is a check-raise, or sandbag. Knowing that you have the stronger hand, you hang back, let the other guy bet and then raise him. Then he has to call or fold, if you have read him right. But in order for it to work you must time it very carefully, and set it up over a series of plays.
The mob scenes we see on TV are probably alienating the undecideds and, to guess by the comment sections in WaPO, even some Republicans. The check has been Obama's coolness under fire, the bet the unleashing of Sarah Palin and poor Cindy (not!) and the raise the goading of McCain into ever wilder ploys (like the "mortgage bailout") and cracks in his demeanor ("that one"). We will rake in the pot on Nov. 5. But then the real work will begin.
TJ: You have it right. "Not mauling the Republicans is something like not disbanding the Iraqi army . . ." O bids fair to be a statesman as well as a politician and a community organizer.
What the Cornerites are seeing, and why they're so panicky - though they won't admit it - is not only an impending Obama victory but the end of the Reagan Revolution.
This election has the potential to be one of those watershed votes that comes along in our history every 40 years or so - where the electoral map begins to change in a dramatic way. The last such election was in 1968, so we're due.
The GOP is beginning to feel like the Democrats did in '68 - the coalition that has driven the national agenda for decades is coming apart, and something new is going to take its place. The GOP may not have seen bottom yet: if this year is similar to 1968, the next election, where Obama is re-elected in a landslide, could be like 1972. The next move for the GOP, then, is to find their George McGovern.
And I'm loving it.
"What the Cornerites are seeing, and why they're so panicky - though they won't admit it - is not only an impending Obama victory but the end of the Reagan Revolution."
Spot on.
But there is another more sinister take on this. The cornerites are showing their anti-democratic side. They don't believe in a loyal opposition.
When reality bites you in the ass, imagination remains an ever-faithful friend.
if this year is similar to 1968
I would argue that this year is shaping up to be most similar to 1932, with W playing the part of Hoover.
This election has the potential to be one of those watershed votes that comes along in our history every 40 years or so - where the electoral map begins to change in a dramatic way. The last such election was in 1968, so we're due.
The GOP is beginning to feel like the Democrats did in '68 - the coalition that has driven the national agenda for decades is coming apart, and something new is going to take its place.
Many have said that the civil rights movement was the game-changer in the '60s; indeed, Lyndon Johnson is reported to have commented after signing the Voting Rights Act that this would cede the South to the Republicans for several decades.
If 2008 is truly the flip side of '68, what got things going? I argue that Hurricane Katrina, which exposed the Bush administration's cynical brutalism towards the black working-class, ignited the flame. Had Bush been more forthcoming with aid, less enthralled with his cronyism, we might now be seeing a Democrat heading for the White House, but it would probably be Hillary Clinton, continuing her husband's pseudo-centrist policies. What seemed like a sure thing for her in early 2005 was exposed as merely more of the same three years later. It was a terrible price to pay in lives and property, but Katrina was the catalyst.
I'm a fan of NRO's The Corner,
The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. I'll pray for you Kevin.
Rope-a-dope is not quite accurate. Obama has not taunted or initiated any goading that I have noticed. Aikido is more like it. The player gives no offense, but if attacked, uses the aggressor's force to place him in a disadvantageous position.
A very good example comes from the second debate. The San Jose Mercury (bless McLatchy) had 11 champion high school debaters watch and comment on the debate and wrote it up on Wednesday. The most intense moment for them was when McCain (1) pointed his finger and (2) called Obama "that one." The debaters thought it was shocking and called it "crude." Well, here it is Thursday and "That one" T-shirts are on sale. Obama did not make McCain reveal himself, but he is taking full, effective advantage of what the debaters thought was McCain's worst moment.
I love it. The rabid racists and conspiracy theorists are doing their own advertising. I have to imagine that to the average fence-sitter, perhaps an elderly woman who feels a bit uncomfortable about voting for a black man (who we all know she has been programmed her entire life to mistrust), getting the real crazies out foaming in the mouth has to conjure up images that aren't helpful to Republicans.
Like my grandmother always told me...
"Reality always smacks you harder when held back too long by pride."
DMoore
"The only chance McCain has to turn this around is to either come up with an economic plan that convinces everyone that he is the guy who can solve their problems"
There is no possibility that McCain can both come up with a convincing plan to solve the current economic problems and at the same time stay true to his own philosophy that the government should not interfere in the economy.
Anything that might work will lose votes from his base, while also making McCain look inconsistent with his own well-crafted media image.
TED at 4.02!
Off topic but I'm still very nervous about the effect that racism will have on this election. I've known too many people that won't vote for a black man and many of these consider themselves democrats. It's disgusting but it's true.
Some of you may be too young to remember the virulent and vicious Cult Of Clinton Hatred from the 1990s -- the fake, phony "evidence" that Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster; the allegations that as governor of Arkansas, Clinton ran a cocaine smuggling operation from a secret airport; the email lists of supposed "enemies" of the Clintons who had supposedly been murdered at Clinton's order; and on and on and on.
If Obama is sworn in as president he will be subjected to the same, and probably worse. After all, the right-wing hate-mongering fantasies about the Clintons may have accused them of drug running and murder, but in the end merely portrayed them as corrupt Southern politicians.
In Obama's case, they are adding racial hatred into the mix, while accusing him of being a radical Islamic anti-American terrorist.
The sad truth is that Obama's life -- and the lives of his wife and children -- will be in very real danger every single day from election day on.
If some of you young people are interested in knowing more about the character assassination campaign described by Secular Animist, check out Joe Conason's The Hunting of the President. In a bizarre twist, Richard Mellon Scaife, the billionaire financial backer of the right-wing conspiracy to destroy the Clintons, supported Hillary against Obama during the primaries.
McCain's hideous smear campaign is indeed More of the Same.
Remember, the Republicans have taken it for granted that the presidency is their office and that America embraced the hard right conservative movement with the election of Reagan. Clinton's election and popularity threatened that illusion which is why they hated him so much. But an Obama victory wouldn't merely threaten that dream, it would clearly mark the end of the Reagan era and that more than anything is why they are going crazy. You should look up some FDR era conservative comments, and compare those with the ones you've been reading at the Corner, I assume they are similar.
You should look up some FDR era conservative comments, and compare those with the ones you've been reading at the Corner, I assume they are similar.
IIRC, many '30s right-wingers would not refer to FDR by name, but as "that man in the White House." Sound familiar?
I think the FDR analogies are most insightful. FDR was hated because he spoke to realizing the hopes and addressing the fears of the country, and while doing so, completing the destruction of the Taft-era themes that led the world into the Great Depression.
In doing so FDR consigned the Republican party to being the opposition for decades.
That generation of wingers knew they'd been outmaneuvered and exposed. They knew their cause had blown it, and that FDR made sure everyone understood how and why. They had a choice between admitting their own fallacies, or blaming FDR. For them, the choice was easy: avoid personal responsibility, and blame FDR.
We're seeing a replay of that - this time it's all on the Internet for everyone to see.
All this talk about Obama being a secret radical only makes sense if you believe that hiring a black guy makes you a radical.
It is not unusual that someone being beaten by a person they don't respect feels rage, happens all the time. But what is unusual is that a politician at the presidential level lacks so much pragmatism that he allows his emotions to cloud his judgment and potentially poison the well of his own future. When this election is all over Candidate McCain will either wind up in the White House having to deal with a very angry Democratic majority, or wind up back in the Senate where he will have to deal with a very angry Democratic majority as well as a angry Republican minority. Either way his campaign will have left a residue of anger and recrimination among people whom he is going to need to get anything done.
And perhaps more importantly, that same residue is poisoning the well among a large minority of the electorate. This is the kind of rhetoric that caused the never ending Republican anger around the Clinton's and resulted in far too much of their energy being siphoned off to deal with the ceaseless Republican charges of conspiracy and wrong-doing. At a time when the next president will have to deal with severe military, economic, and international crises, not to mention the potentially dramatic collapse of some major entitlement programs, spewing hate into the environment is both irresponsible and outrageous. The next president is going to need "all hands on deck", but McCain is busy throwing bombs into the body politic. How very "Country First!"
scaife had so much fun the first time, he figured it would be fun to do it again.
I think the FDR analogies are most insightful. FDR was hated because he spoke to realizing the hopes and addressing the fears of the country, and while doing so, completing the destruction of the Taft-era themes that led the world into the Great Depression.
[snip]
Posted by: island-in-alabama on 10/09/08 at 1:13 PM
as andy mccarthy complains, obama will bring "bottom-up socialism." the "wrongness" is the direction of focus, trickle-down is central to their thinking. (see hilzoy)
I think he's trying to win the battle, the war, and the peace thereafter. Should he prevail in the election, he doesn't want to try to rebuild our country in the face of an insurgency like the one in Iraq. Not mauling 'Republicans' is something like not disbanding the Iraqi army or indulging in complete and ideologically perfect de-Baathification.
Posted by: TJ on 10/09/08 at 2:25 AM
you said this better than i have managed. after the last debate was over and i had stopped throwing things at my teevee, i reflected and understood the thing you describe so well.
Sounds like what President Bush does to liberals.
Sounds like what President Bush does to liberals.
Ah, we need no more evidence of the bad faith of Brian, everyone's favorite faux-reasonable concern troll, than this line, reminiscent of the "Bush Derangement Syndrome" used to try to render criticism of Bush off limits.
First off, Brian, 70% of the country now dislikes him; a mere nine percent -- cincluding you and those who pay you to post here -- approve of him.
Second, unlike Obama -- the derangement of the Right about whom, as documented here, is fantasy, Bush is responsible for a host of genuine bad acts, from stealing the 2000 election to allowing the 9/11 attacks on his watch out of sheer incompetence to launching a war under false pretenses to torture.
It's indicative of Brian that he still can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.
Still, I'm amused that it took you that long to come up with a comment even as lame as that.
Jackass.