In The Blogs

Healthcare CEOs Shoot Themselves in the Foot

Yesterday the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations decided to investigate the practice of recission.  This is when you pay your premiums for years to a healthcare insurer, then get sick, and then have your insurance cancelled.  The insurance industry executives at the hearing did not exactly cover themselves with glory:

A Texas nurse said she lost her coverage, after she was diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer, for failing to disclose a visit to a dermatologist for acne.

The sister of an Illinois man who died of lymphoma said his policy was rescinded for the failure to report a possible aneurysm and gallstones that his physician noted in his chart but did not discuss with him.

....Late in the hearing, [Bart] Stupak, the committee chairman, put the executives on the spot. Stupak asked each of them whether he would at least commit his company to immediately stop rescissions except where they could show "intentional fraud."

The answer from all three executives: "No."

Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.) said that a public insurance plan should be a part of any overhaul because it would force private companies to treat consumers fairly or risk losing them. "This is precisely why we need a public option," Dingell said.

Even the Republicans on the committee couldn't defend the insurance company position.  A few more hearings like this and getting a public option into healthcare reform is suddenly going to look like a real possibility.  Nice going, guys.

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Comments
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Considering ..

what has transpired at the HELP committee so far ... I don't know about that ... our representatives are bought and paid for(exceptions being Alan Grayson .. Bernie Sanders .. and very few others)

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Nice, but...

Unless this footage gets turned into a 30 second commercial and is independently disseminated in major media markets, I doubt very many people will even be aware that this hearing happened, let alone watch this appalling nonsense.

Sorry for the morning cynicism... thank you for your work in making sure this person saw it!

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And a few more of these...

And a few more stories like the one appearing in the WSJ today of the 10 year old boy whose pediatric endocrinologist cancelled the boy's appointment the day before he was due to see him in December because he no longer accepted medicare patients will put a kabosh on government run healthcare. The boy had to stop his growth hormone treatments because the only other endocrinologist in Las Vegas to accept medicare couldn't see him until March.

18% of doctors won't accept medicare- mostly specialists- and 11% more are saying they will stop soon. So much for moving towards a government run Canadian style of healthcare. Of course the government can always force Doctors to see patients.

Oh ya, that will do the trick.

The first step- at a minimum- in healthcare reform ought to be to allow insurance companies sell policies across state lines. We need a Geico, an Allstate and a Safe Auto of health insurance allowing for national health insurance competition. Let the 21 year old buy one type of policy and the 55 year old buy something different- they have different needs. Then lets see how how many companies cancel coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

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When asked if they would

When asked if they would stop recission except in cases of fraud, they said "No".

What more do you need to know? We need to remove the profit motive from the insurers. Only then will we have meaningful reform.

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No, we need to remove the

No, we need to remove the profit motive from Health Care.

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Then what's the driver for

Then what's the driver for health care innovation? You can't make any money what's the point of going out on a limb to develop something new? "Let's remove profit motive...." - such a simplistic answer that doesn't look at basic human motives.

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Helping people?

There are many incentives besides profit to do things.

"You can't make any money what's the point of going out on a limb to develop something new?" Such a simplistic rebuttal that doesn't look at basic human motives...

Admittedly, health care research is expensive, and because of that expense, most of the research goes into areas that are the most profitable instead of areas that could do the most good.

Health care research should be government driven because in a capitalist system, government intervention is the only way to get the the priorities aligned properly with something with as large of an externality as health care.

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Quote And a few more stories

Quote
And a few more stories like the one appearing in the WSJ today of the 10 year old boy whose pediatric endocrinologist cancelled the boy's appointment the day before he was due to see him in December because he no longer accepted medicare patients will put a kabosh on government run healthcare.
quote

Or quite the opposite could happen...we will ALL be on a medicare type plan and if they Dr. doesn't accept it he will have very few patients to see and won't be able to afford his beemer payments! Works for me

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No, this is a red herring

Hello, Insurance companies *already* can sell policies "across state lines." We have bc/bs of california and we live in Ma. Competition doesn't exist at the level of individual consumers with actual health needs because individual consumers and families generally can't buy policies without being allowed to be part of a "group" defined by an employer. Its prohibitively expensive. Any insurance company that knew you were shopping around isn't interested in getting you *health care coverage* becuase the reason people go out of their way to get insurance is because they expect to use it. Right now health insurance works because employers bargain for group rates and insurance companies figure they can collect massive premiums from the group as a whole and rescind your coverage if you actually individually try to access it. Its nothing but a bait and switch.

State AG's are opposed to a free for all of "insurance companies" writing out of state policies because its hellishly hard for them to protect consumers against outright consumer fraud in either the premium collection or the payout portion of the health insurnce market.

aimai

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The answer is...all of them

Every single CEO said they would still cancel coverage. So the answer is...all of them.

You seem to think the free market is a magical place where unicorns grow. I think the last year has put paid to that idea.

Only a public plan could possibly have the incentive to provide care instead of recission, cancelling coverage.

And that's why every single developed country in the entire world (except the US) has one.

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And that's why the health

And that's why the health care in the countries with socialized medicine is terrible.
Government mandates cause delayed & insufficent care taking away the patients choice.
If the idea of government run health care is so appealing, what can you name that the government runs well? Medicare ? Medicade ? ...Right...

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"And that's why the health

"And that's why the health care in the countries with socialized medicine is terrible."

You just toss that out there like it's an established fact. Are you an expert on foreign health care systems? And terrible compared to what? A wealthy person's health care? It can't be worse than being uninsured and waiting in line at the emergency room like many in this country. I guess they don't count.

Let's see something in government that runs well... From experience I can say the US Military is pretty damn good, and every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine gets free coverage that works pretty damn well.

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You obviously know little

This statement "that's why the health care in the countries with socialized medicine is terrible" is extreme ignorance or on based an extreme willingness to lie.

The fact is that America's healthcare system is the both the most expensive and least effective in the industrialized world. In almost any way you measure quality ,to the country as a whole, we suck.

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Medical school is expensive.

Medical school is expensive. Doctors CAN get all Jphn Galt about it, but in reality they are much better people than your caricature of the issue supposes.

Says loads about your worldview though. Thanks for not studying mredicine, Rand-roid.

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That WSJ story isn't a condemnation of state-run insurance plans

If you actually read the damn thing, it's a condemnation of GOP governmental policies which consider it to be "good governance" to overcome budget shortfalls on the backs of the weakest members of society. It would be nice if doctors didn't respond to this by dropping patients - but if Nevada tells a doctor they're going to cut (already low) payments to him by 40%, it's pretty difficult to condemn him for refusing to subsidize the GOP's tax-cutting priorities.

National insurance wouldn't be so subject to the whims and vagaries of GOP assholes, since the national government can operate on a deficit basis during difficult times (or when the GOP cut taxes while going on a spending spree). This is actually great evidence for the need to take control of government health insurance out of the hands of the states.

Thanks for bringing this up - you've provided me with a great argument in favor of national health care.

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If you read the article it

If you read the article it was through the rabid, vile lens of hatred you have for the GOP. There is no condemnation of GOP policies but that does makes any difference to your type. Read the damn thing again without the bile. The article is about the economic realities and consequences of government run health insurance. It's about rationing of health care in times of shortages. Sorry that the BIG point was lost on you. Maybe you ought to post on Olbermann's site from now on so he can explain the big stuff to you in simple words.

Your type always trot out the tired worn out canards of the liberal left. Guess Harry Reid doesn't care enough about 'the weakest members of Nevadan Society" not enough anyway to help fund Medicaid in his own state as opposed to the $2B porker he got for the toy train he's going to run through the state.

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Oh my goodness, you learned

Oh my goodness, you learned something today about how Harry Reid is an ineffective Congressional leader! There is a world of wonder available to you now, regarding the wetness of water and the Pope's religious background.

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Your blinders are showing

I read the article without the preconception that health care policy is completely divorced from any other governmental policy (and, although I'm making an assumption about "your type", without the preconception that "government is the problem"). Let me make it simple:

1. States are required to balance their budgets, since they have major difficulties borrowing sufficient funds to run deficits. California's pending implosion because they've finally run out of the ability to sell bonds is an obvious case in point.

2. Over the past couple of decades, states with GOP governors and/or legislatures have preferred to cut taxes in good economic times, rather than invest surpluses to plan for bad times. Since just about every state has experienced a period of Republican control during that time, just about every state had its version of a "rainy day fund" depleted to next to nothing. (This is similar to the national GOP idiocy of cutting taxes when the federal budget finally goes into surplus, rather than using the surplus to pay down the massive debts the GOP seems to create every time it gets in power lately - but obviously, that's a topic for another time.)

3. When bad economic times inevitably hit, therefore, cuts have to be made in state budgets, or taxes have to be raised. Since even people of my "type" understand that raising taxes in a recession/depression can be counterproductive, and won't take effect fast enough to balance accounts in the short run, it's always spending cuts first. And, if the GOP are in charge (as they are in Nevada, at least in the Senate and governor's office), the cuts seem to inordinately affect people who are struggling.

That's the background to the story the WSJ published yesterday, and that's why I said that it's a condemnation of past GOP policies and priorities. Those horror stories wouldn't occur if the entities charged with funding the Medicaid programs had the ability to maintain that funding regardless of short-term budgetary constraints. The program isn't the problem, as you seem to think - the problem is the availability of ready money.

And thus, the solution isn't to cancel the program and leave even more people without access to health care - the solution is to take responsibility for funding the program completely out of the hands of the states and give it to the feds, who can run deficits when required. This runs counter to "conservative" doctrines of "states' rights" - so, again, the GOP probably are going to be in the way of a solution that addresses the reality of the problem.

I don't have a "rabid, vile lens of hatred" for all things GOP. But I do have a severe dislike for short-sighted, incompetent governance, which is all the GOP seems to offer lately. Get some guys in charge of your party who can offer something besides tax cuts as a solution to any and every problem, and maybe I'll stop picturing them wearing floppy shoes and rubber noses every time they show up on TV.

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And the free market solution...

And the free market solution to the medicaid problem you mention is what exactly? What insurance company would sell these poor souls a policy? How many could afford a policy? Your argument is a red herring. Even with a dreadful 40% cut, that is still more coverage than any private insurance policy for those affected could afford.

But then again, the GOP "self sufficiency" solutions never include those less fortunate than themselves.

GOP: The party of selfishness

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The first step- at a

The first step- at a minimum- in healthcare reform ought to be to allow insurance companies sell policies across state lines. We need a Geico, an Allstate and a Safe Auto of health insurance allowing for national health insurance competition.

I see this recommendation a lot. It will fail because of regulatory capture, a la the credit card companies. Most CC companies are chartered in South Dakota because they have no usury laws, allowing them to charge rates higher than most states would allow. South Dakota modified their usury laws _to attract credit card companies_. Similarly, were health insurance to become cross-state, some state _will_ modify their laws to attract health insurance companies to charter in their state. States whose laws are less AHIP-friendly will lose companies unless and until they match that first state's laws.

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This Won't Work

Different policies, supermarket style, won't work unless there are HUGE deductibles. These type of policies can be gotten now, if you have $5K handy for the deductible for services, like emergency room and hospital stay. No one can predict a major event no matter how old.

This is the health insurance co's line, or haven't you heard? Or perhaps that's where you got it?

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How can this possilby help

How can this possilby help anyone? How about this lets make the insurance companies cover everyone and not be able to cancel anyone unless it is for non-payment. Then they'll be in the business they should be in, providing HEALTH INSURANCE not making money hand over fist at the expense of our most vunerable citizens.

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And a few more stories like

And a few more stories like the one appearing in the WSJ today of the 10 year old boy whose pediatric endocrinologist cancelled the boy's appointment the day before he was due to see him in December because he no longer accepted medicare patients will put a kabosh on government run healthcare.

Hey, that sounds a lot like the time that my pregnant wife's OB/GYN -- who we'd carefully chosen because she was a member of a high-risk pregnancy clinic and specialized in treating women with cardiac issues -- cancelled our appointment while we were waiting in the clinic because her healthcare group had terminated its contract with Aetna that morning over reimbursement rates and payment issues!

If I'm lucky, maybe my single anecdote will make its way into a major newspaper and put the 'kabosh' on for-profit insurers!

(Fortunately, my state's continuity-of-care laws basically force providers and insurers to come to an accommodation over treating pregnant women who've already entered into a particular doctor's care, so my wife was able to continue seeing the high-risk OB/GYN. If it hadn't been for that particular bit of law, we'd have been well and truly screwed. As it was, we still had to endure paperwork hell with every single bill for the next six months, as Aetna conveniently 'forgot' that they were supposed to be covering these visits at their in-network rate.)

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Because it works out so great with Auto Insurance

Right, like auto insurance companies don't have any reason to deny claims for frivolous reasons. Increased competition in the health insurance space MAY drive down insurance premiums, but it wouldn't provide a massive incentive for those companies to continue to insure people with massive health problems (just like it's very difficult to find car insurance if you have a bad driving history). If you get dropped by your insurer because you have cancer, it's not exactly like you can take your business elsewhere - no other company wants your business at that point. Furthermore, most consumers wouldn't use the rescission rate when determining which insurance company to do business with, just as most don't use claims experience satisfaction numbers to determine which auto and home insurance to buy.

I guarantee you that the fastest growing auto/home/life insurance provider isn't the one with the highest rated claims department: http://www.jdpower.com/homes/ratings/homeowners-insurance-company-rating...

Increasing competition would do very little to solve the rescission problem. Only a federal program to cover or regulations to require coverage of these individuals would protect them in these circumstances.

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is it not manslaughter?

Does this practice not open these executives and their companies to charges of manslaughter?

Their intentional neglect directly contributing to deaths.

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"The first step- at a

"The first step- at a minimum- in healthcare reform ought to be to allow insurance companies sell policies across state lines. We need a Geico, an Allstate and a Safe Auto of health insurance allowing for national health insurance competition. Let the 21 year old buy one type of policy and the 55 year old buy something different- they have different needs. Then lets see how how many companies cancel coverage due to pre-existing conditions."

If you allow health insurance companies to operate plans across state lines, they'll all just move to the state with the fewest consumer protections. That's what happened with credit card companies in the 70s.

That will make abuses like arbitrary recission a lot more common.

The magic of competition isn't going to make sure that those who need care receive it. The profit-maximizing position for an insurance company is to simply cherrypick the healthiest individuals and try to squeeze sick people who actually need the coverage off their rolls in whatever way possible.

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I guess you're right.

I guess you're right. Clearly this hasn't worked for auto insurance where 50 million drivers don't have car insurance and we have state run S-CAR-CHIP programs to give free auto insurance to those making less than 200% of the poverty level.

Gosh use your head. Don't you think it could be Federally mandated that certain protections be built into the law to prevent this? The true reality is that the States don't want to give up their right to legislate mandates; there's over 900 individual ones by State. In MASS, insurance companies have to cover IVF (fertilization), in another State Viagara. Eliminating mandates and giving people the option to buy into what they need only strengthens the argument that a 21 year old doesn't want the same type of coverage as a 55 year old.

I mean come on, before we restructure 20% of the ecomony why don't we at least try the one thing that got us to a $13T economy in the first place: Competition.

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Sign Bernie Sanders Petition

Everyone should sign Bernie Sanders Petition to Congress and express your support for single payer. It takes less than a minute!

http://sanders.senate.gov/petitions/index.cfm?uid=7fd59f2e-88e1-477a-8ea...

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Exactly!

Good idea. Let's support the only registered Socialist member of Congress, that's where we're headed anyway. At least he has the courage to call himself what he is.

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Funnily enough, most

Funnily enough, most Canadian Conservatives believe in socialized, single payer system, despite nearly a decade of monied interests (particularly Physicians and the Conservatives / right-leaning Liberals of the day) fighting tooth-and-nail against it.

Even Prime Minister Harper, who once led the non-profit National Citizens Coalition (whose founder, insurance saleman & son of a physician Colin Brown was one of the most ardent opponents of public medicare) has a founding principle of his party "that all Canadians should have reasonable access to quality health care regardless of their ability to pay".

This is a political fight well worth the high interim costs.

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the real name of this practice

is extortion, as practiced by the mafia. The fact that the insurance companies are parasitical monsters in this case never seems to get mentioned, perhaps because it is a profitable practice which is spread by lobbyists to all potential reformers in congress.
Extending the mafia by giving it interstate scope in the name of competition is such a perverse notion that no doubt the commenter who suggested it is an accessory to the crime. RICO laws should be applied sooner than later.

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Insurance Executives are NOT in the healthcare business

Let's get it straight people. There is a difference between healthcare and insurance. One has the stated intention to "do no harm." The other is in business to turn a profit. DO NOT award the profit seekers with a moniker they do not deserve. Healthcare execs run hospitals and large medical practices and their jobs are a constant balancing act of no-win situations. Their employees are under oath to provide responsible medicine. And their institutions and are held hostage by payments from insurers that routinely run to Net 90 and Net 120. And they have to HOPE they see income from the feds (Medicare and Medicaid) that covers the flood of uninsured patients using the emergency rooms as a free clinic with a revolving door. Let's not confuse the profit mongers with the people who are earning their "healthcare executive" pay.

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WTH

The above examples are just pure evil. (Doubly so that the one customer was never informed by his doctor.) Mother Jones is doing us a disservice by not disclosing which insurance companies were involved. LA Times: WellPoint Inc. (Blue Cross/BC of Calif.), UnitedHealth Group and Assurant Inc

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We already have government run healthcare

The regulations these companies exist under were bought and paid for by the industry. The regulations prohibit real competition in the business.

There are evil people in the world. Choice gives us opportunities to not have to deal with evil people. Government run systems have no choice and the results are ultimately the same as the current system we have. People don't get served and have no recourse.

For anyone who loves government run health care, talk to the thousands of Canadian cancer patients who come to the US to survive. 6 months before getting an MRI, a reality in much of Canada, is a death sentence for most. Active triage of older people happens.

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Misinformation.

"talk to the thousands of Canadian cancer patients who come to the US to survive"

PURE BALONEY.
Rates of cancer survival of countries with "socialized medicine" like France, Japan, Australia, and Canada is comparable with the US, at a much lower cost overall:
//http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080716/cancer-survival-rates-vary-by-country?src=RSS_PUBLIC
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080716/cancer_stat...

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I call BS

I call BS. I have several Canadian friends who would never trade their health care system for anything remotely like the U.S. system. The complaints in Canada are real. The problems are real. However, it's nothing that can't be solved within the system, and the problems are dwarfed by the problems the U.S. has. Can't get an MRI in Canada? Guess what! You can go to the USA! Health care providers and health insurance providers are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. Canada has an MRI problem because not enough MRI clinics exist. How can that be fixed? Simply change a law/regulation to make it more profitable or the government can start their own.

This is nothing new!

Have you EVER scheduled non-emergency major surgey in the USA? The waiting list is typically in excess of six months in many areas. How is the mighty mighty free market fixing that? And how is that any different from any growing pains Canada is having?

I had a friend from Ireland who has Leukemia who lived in the USA. She had a major relapse. She had to basically live in a hospital for three months. Ireland paid every penny. She never had to worry about a bill.

Show me the magic free market solution that provides that level of care with no stress about how it's being paid for.

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Sad. I have no choice in

Sad.

I have no choice in health care. Like most Americans, I have to accept whatever my employer will give me.

Considering that I have major health issues in my family, that's not good enough. It means the labor market is distorted.

I can't be an independent consultant. Health care for my family would cost, as an individual buyer on the "market", $36k/yr. The premium for being a consultant - which is not guaranteed - might amount to $10k. Maybe $20k. So, instead, I'm a fucking serf, dependent on the crumbs the Lord of the Manor sweeps off his table.

I'm only one of tens of millions trapped in this situation. America is a "free" country. Unless you are sick, or might someday get sick.

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The solution is making people PAY their doctor bills first

First, make all insurance companies REIMBURSEMENT companies, not ones where the patient never sees the bill.

Second, REFUSE to allow insurance companies to SETTLE lawsuits. Either win in court or lose in court.

Third, Remove the profit motive from LAWYERS who sue doctors, insurance companies and hospitals -- If we get to regulate Banker Salaries, do the same for lawyers.

Fourth, Remove all ARBITRATION laws from medicine.

Next, make Insurance OPTIONAL, but untaxed.

Sixth, Doctors who lose malpractice suits lose their licenses forever, all over the nation, in every medical field.

Seventh, allow patients to sue insurance companies in their home states, not in the Insurance Company's state of corporation, up to Actual Medical Costs (not including punishment, etc)

Force every hospital with an emergency room to also have a 24-hour family practice clinic.

Hospitals, Doctors, and others who accept federal funds/medicaid/medicare will be exempt from punitive damages and lifelong care awards when sued for malpractice/negligence/etc. Still lose license if they lose case. Still must pay damages if they lose.

ALL Prices and reimbursements MUST be given BEFORE treatment. Patients who pay cash up front must get same rate as BEST-offered accepted insurance carrier (i.e. no hidden retail markups). Paying cash is BETTER than getting an insurance co. check and should be treated better.

Usury laws must be re-instituted across the nation. loan terms for medical procedures cannot be higher than prime+X, and less than credit card rates because currently medical fees are not wiped out in bankruptcy.

Lastly, Every politician MUST subscribe to an available plan and document all their expenses on said plan. NO MORE FREE HealthCare for Pols. Oh, and liberal utilitiarians (like Kennedy) must commit suicide rather than spend more than $1million on health care in one year. Consevatives, who treasure every life, can spend whatever they like. (JK)

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"Consevatives, who treasure

"Consevatives, who treasure every life, ..."

Good thing you didn't say 'Conservatives'. Because that would have been funny.

And what about people of political persuasions other than 'liberal utilitarianism' and 'consevatism'?

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"Sixth, Doctors who lose

"Sixth, Doctors who lose malpractice suits lose their licenses forever, all over the nation, in every medical field."

Yeah that's a strong strategy. So, we're going to require them to NEVER make a mistake. How would that work in your profession if you were fired if you made even ONE error, regardless of its magnitude? That seems pretty unrealistic to expect that from anyone, including doctors.

I'm certain this would significantly increase health care costs as every test imaginable would be ordered on every patient simply to legally cover the treating physician. Its called defensive medicine and is already one the major reasons for the rising cost of medicine.

Its too much work, too hard to get there, and takes too long to become a doctor to practice medicine solely for its earning potential. By and large, they are in it to help people first and foremost. So, the threat of losing a medical license for a malpractice settlement seems a bit excessive and unnecessary.

Lastly, this would worsen the developing physician shortage nationwide. Sure, a few bad doctors would be removed, but not without the collateral damage of firing a lot more very good doctors.

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Healthcare

We are the wealthiest country in the world with hordes of smart people. Does anyone seriously think we can't do better than Canada, especially if we continue to spend at the level we do currently?

It's ironic that nay-sayers continually bring up Canada and England as bugaboos, but never France, where "socialized' medicine really works . I've been there, I know. No system is perfect, but they spend less money on healthcare and have better outcomes in France. Plus, nobody goes bankrupt because of a medical crisis. Their taxes are higher, but we pay the equivalent in lower wages and higher premiums AND live under the possibility that our health insurance might be cancelled or that it won't cover our medical expenses.

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Yeah, they really did a hell

Yeah, they really did a hell of a lot of damage to themselves -- the evidence being that practically no one in America noticed this except you and the L.A. Times.

I'm sorry you're wrong about this, but you are. America wants liberal solutions ... up until the point that Big CEO Daddies come along and says liberalism will make them angry. Then we remember who thirty years of Reaganism have told us really should be in charge.

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I can't be an independent

I can't be an independent consultant. Health care for my family would cost, as an individual buyer on the "market", $36k/yr. The premium for being a consultant - which is not guaranteed - might amount to $10k. Maybe $20k.

That's what I don't understand about the conservative argument against single payer. The current system is stifling entrepreneurship. There are a lot of people who would be willing to risk starting their own businesses if they didn't run into the fear of losing health insurance. Example: a friend of mind suffered a bout of cancer a few years ago. She was recently laid off her job as a writer during this current swathe of cuts by the journo industry. She is now thriving as a freelancer -- but she still has to look for a new job because she needs the health insurance. (right now she's on stimulus supplemented COBRA). She can't get health insurance on her own because of her cancer history.

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That's the point

That's what I don't understand about the conservative argument against single payer. The current system is stifling entrepreneurship.

What's not to understand? Stifling entrepreneurship is the whole POINT of the corporate conservative argument against single payer. Health insurance lock-in is one of the ways they keep good, motivated employees chained to their desks instead of going out and taking their good ideas into the marketplace. The last thing large corporations want is more entrepreneurship, because that means more employee turnover and more competition, both of which are bad for the bottom line.

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If the federal government or

If the federal government or the state governments create a tax based insurance entity, the people running such a creation would most likely be the same executives from the Health Insurance corporations. Government is nothing more than people, who are flawed just like people in private business.

When we have a tax based insurance entity, the political battles regarding abortion, medication, procedures and other things will be enormous and costly. Also, the mandate of a government insurance entity would not be to pay the amount owed, but to limit payments just the same as a private insurer. Medicaid pays at below sustainable rates, depending upon the private insured patients to make up the balance. We would not have an improvement.

Another point against a government insurance entity is that there is no effective authority that can kill it or improve it. When it is run by a "Health Czar", we get exactly what the title implies. Social Security is a flawed system, but we have no path or hope it will be killed or even changed. We would create a monster that will devour us.

I feel that in our society, we eat what we hunt. Work hard, save money, make good decisions to prepare for the future. Stealing money away from workers to give to less capable people doesn't seem right. Charity is the answer, if people want to give money.

I know there is bad luck, I could be struck with cancer, but I am willing to accept that it is fate/nature and I can only do what is in my power to relieve it.

The fundamental issue is the role of taxes to pay for what you want. Is it reasonable to ask for a tax based program to provide all taxpayers with all life services? Should taxes pay for guaranteed housing, a set menu of food, clothing, transportation, security and healthcare? Will I be able to purchase a premium level of healthcare and insurance? Will the government force all health Providers to give equal treatment to standard and premium patients? What makes the government a better manager of policies when the government is run by people? People are the same, in government or in private business. Government isn't a logical machine who only makes good decisions. Would we make it worse with tax based programs? I think yes, because the politicians will be involved and the voters will want more and more entitlements to the point of paying your entire paycheck for taxes and then receiving government services. America is based on freedom, responsibility, individuality. Government is the antithesis of that ideal.

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Self-employement is a risk

Self-employement is a risk based endevour. The risk of losing insurance should be balanced by the rewards of successful business.

When we provide guaranteed tax based health insurance, the risks are reduced allowing the quality of the entrpreneur to be reduced, causing greater cost overall. We end up having more bankruptcies, reducing the tax revenues at the same time as increasing the tax based benefit expenses. Thus, the overall balance is negative.

At present, the risks of self employment is greater, filtering out those who are not as prepared and ambitious. Those who can accept the high risk will result in a higher quality entrepreneur population, with a lower rate of failure. The people who remain as workers still get their paycheck, pay into the tax revenue, avoid drawing down tax benefits and can live in peace.

The risk of failure and loss is the natural balance to prevent reckless behavior. This is another reason why guaranteed healthcare and insurance is not the way to go.

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This is the American

This is the American Healthcare system? You need to ask insurance executives to allow doctors to treat you? I may be a little naive [I have only worked in UK healthcare my entire career] but that's got to be the stupidest thing I have every heard.

I have always found it difficult to even believe, never mind understand, just how mind-bendingly idiotic the US system is, and stories like this just make me question why there has not yet been a mass uprising and revolution to sort that BS out.

Your move, people.

undeadbydawn

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Holy sht!

I am a Canadian and I totally appreciate the amazing health care we have.

For instance, the other week I had an appointment to see my doctor about my back, which has been hurting. She had a 1/2 hour consultation with me, check me out and then wrote me a prescription to have xrays. A couple days later, I walked into the local xray clinic, waited 5 minutes, then have xrays taken. No appointment needed.

Did I have to fill out any forms or pay by credit card for any of this? No. I just showed them the prescription and my health card. That was it.

Getting an appointment with my doctor is easy, usually a 2 week wait, and I can get in earlier if I really need to.

And getting in to an afterhours walk-in clinic is also easy, though the wait is usually an hour. Also, no complicated forms to fill out. I just give them my health card and that's it.

I'm really sorry for you people in the states.

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health care

E
WHAT'S WRONG WITH U.S. HEALTHCARE
AND HOW TO REMEDY IT

INTRODUCTION

Over a million people die unnecessarily each year in the United States. Four hundred thousand deaths are attributable to smoking tobacco, three hundred thousand stem from alcohol abuse and its sequela, another hundred thousand are the result of iatrogenic mishaps-doctors' errors, another two hundred thousand are the result of nursing mistakes and hospital generated diseases. Eighteen thousand come from lack of insurance coverage and twenty thousand from hard drugs. A Republican friend of mine asked, “What would we do to support all those people if they were to live instead of die?” Fie on such thinking. Feh. Better to think like a Jew. Saving one life is as if the whole universe is saved. Over ten years more than ten million of our bothers and sisters will die needlessly. You, reader have a good chance of being one of them. So stop thinking abstractly. Think what you would want for yourself. Stop concerning yourself about costs, peripheral schemes, livelihoods, business concerns, economics or political theory. Think with the clarity and passion of those who oppose abortion. You will help to save real human lives.

This death toll amounts to mass killings. Because human beings could prevent most of them it is tantamount to mass murder. Who are the tantamount mass murderers?
All people who oppose the reforms that would save these lives. Most immediately, directly and specifically responsible are that portion of the 535 members of congress who are preventing reforms. They and their colleagues who favor reform have it in their hands to prevent these deaths, to prevent these murders.

It doesn't matter what their constituents want, what their corporate bosses want. Congressmen and women have the egos to run and be elected to these controlling congressional offices. They have taken the controls and the responsibility in their hands. Let them act in accordance with the value that each human life is sacred and should be saved from death. People who prevent reforms, are perpetrating deaths as surely as the murderers of Darfur, Rwanda, Cambodia and Germany. They should be labeled Mass Murderers until they save lives instead of destroying them.

In the current debate these murderers are the hypocritical killer whores who oppose a government provided health care option; they would rather see millions die than lose their masters' cash and backing. Rather than be in office that permits them to inflict so much injury and death on us they should be in prison and out of our way to saving lives.

THE REMEDIES

What could prevent most of these deaths?

I.Healthcare in the U.S. is not a system; it's a chaotic, dysfunctional hodge podge.
Remedy is to plan and implement a comprehensive, flexible, empirically self-correcting system.
Define goals including affordable costs to society and individuals. Designate all variables in system that need to be designed in interaction with all other variables.
Design each variable. Model all variables in interaction with the others. Adjust each variable to permit attainment of goals. Implement variables over a sufficient but limited period of time to enable businesses and individuals to adapt to new conditions. A healthcare system will comprise but not be limited to:
A. Preventive education and action from pre-pregnancy to grave including ultimate elimination of all forms of drug abuse and dependancy, optimal nutrition, stress minimization and exercise, optimal self healthcare and self medication.
B. A national information system
C. A national research system on the etiology of disease, the treatment and medication for disease and accidents covering, facilities, devices, medication, practice.
D. A national or a nationally subsidized education and training system for all doctors, nurses, technicians, aides, administrators, and all others involved in delivery of healthcare.
E.A national evaluation, policing and enforcement system.
F. A national planning system based on research and evaluation.
G. A national, regional or state run healthcare implementation system.
II.There are currently too few crackerjack doctors, nurses and aides and too many under intelligent, undertrained healthcare personnel.
Remedy: Increase number of medical and nursing schools and other training facilities for technicians and aides. Raise selection standards for entry, stressing intelligence, personality stability and motivation as well as cognitive preparation.
Make medical and nursing professions more attractive to brilliant people. Raise income levels, relieve inimical burdens such as insurance paperwork and justifications, Rationalize training, for example, by eliminating sleep deprivation, maximizing personally supervised apprentice practice by crackerjack personnel in each field. Help doctors to establish new practices where society needs them by subsidizing needed plant and equipment for individuals and for nearby clinics and hospitals. Healthcare should be done in an unhurried and unharried personal practice not subject to extraneously imposed tension or stress. Whatever stress in integrally involved in practice should emanate from concern for proper diagnosis, treatment and medical vicissitudes.
III.Business competition generates a burden of waste and want. In affluent urban areas hospitals compete for patients and usage by overbuilding plant, over installing equipment and overusing plant and equipment in order to amortize them, and by over advertising. Meanwhile rural and poor urban areas go under served.
Remedy: Federal, regional or state healthcare systems with planning, research, evaluation and adaptation activities as well as operating activities. There should be a comprehensive federal information system, a federal research department, a federal evaluation system and a federally subsidized adaptation system. It may be that a federal operational system may also be best. Regional or state systems may afford scope for innovation and cost containment that are not possible in a single system.
IV.Fraud and other criminality waste resources.
Remedies: Complete Ethics training as part of all healthcare education and training. Frequent periodic peer ethics discussions in operational settings. A federal oversight, policing and enforcement system with unannounced inspections, warnings, suspensions, criminal trials, fines and imprisonment.

V.Ignorance, negligence and inadvertent malpractice.
Remedies: Proper education and training. Non-stressful practice conditions. Every doctor's office, hospital, clinic and medical training facility should be equipped with one or more crackerjack medical information specialists who constantly search the national information system and the world wide web for information on new research findings, treatment practices, medications, education and training. These specialists should provide doctors, nurses and other practitioners with the gists of their findings every day, whenever feasible and ad lib as required by patients complaints and conditions. Drug detailing, drug advertisements and insurance shit should be totally eliminated.
Too little empirical disease, accident, and healthcare research is done.
Remedies: Research funded by the federal government, the states, foundations and the private sector should be vastly expanded. Personnel now involved in insurance, advertising and salesmanship should be retrained and absorbed into the healthcare research, training, administration and implementation systems. All healthcare findings should be routinely published in easily accessible on line and paper media. Health care facilities should be cleaned up and kept clean.

VI. Practice should be done in unstressed, unhurried settings. There should be enough practitioners for this to happen.
Remedy: Instead of becoming lawyers, financial schemers and advisers, insurance personnel, medical device, drug and equipment salesmen and advertisers, people should be trained and employed at the levels appropriate to their capabilities in the healthcare system and should be paid handsomely for their services Training and education facilities will need to be expanded.

VII.Doctors and other practitioners should be immune to suits. Committees of peers and outside scientific and legal experts should review errors and poor healthcare outcomes. They should decide on the status, training needs and supervisory needs of practitioners and on the remedies and compensation for victims of errors. The government should set up a fund to pay victims of health care errors and malpractice.

There is no way costs can be contained or lowered as long as we pay for useless insurers, wrongful competition that spends wastefully on plant, equipment, supplies and advertisements, fraudulent charges and overcharges, and defensive prescriptions and referrals. Further, as long as we pay for health care needed because people behave badly as a consequence of poor education and information, and as long as non evidentiary treatment is practiced we will be unable to limit costs to the lowest possible.

A final point. The financial system should be simplified to provide loans and equity capital needed for productive and constructive purposes, rather than money made on fancy financial instrumentation. Incomes derived from financial creativity and manipulation should be severely capped, probably commensurate with teaching at schools and universities. This will motivate many brilliant people who are attracted to the riches of finance to use their brilliance to improve health care research and practice and other productive endeavors like engineering, manufacturing and environmental services. This will not only free up and divert money to add to improved health care, but also, put us on a competitive path with Japan, Korea, Israel, China, India and the other smart nations.

no profile pic for comment author

health care

E
WHAT'S WRONG WITH U.S. HEALTHCARE
AND HOW TO REMEDY IT

INTRODUCTION

Over a million people die unnecessarily each year in the United States. Four hundred thousand deaths are attributable to smoking tobacco, three hundred thousand stem from alcohol abuse and its sequela, another hundred thousand are the result of iatrogenic mishaps-doctors' errors, another two hundred thousand are the result of nursing mistakes and hospital generated diseases. Eighteen thousand come from lack of insurance coverage and twenty thousand from hard drugs. A Republican friend of mine asked, “What would we do to support all those people if they were to live instead of die?” Fie on such thinking. Feh. Better to think like a Jew. Saving one life is as if the whole universe is saved. Over ten years more than ten million of our bothers and sisters will die needlessly. You, reader have a good chance of being one of them. So stop thinking abstractly. Think what you would want for yourself. Stop concerning yourself about costs, peripheral schemes, livelihoods, business concerns, economics or political theory. Think with the clarity and passion of those who oppose abortion. You will help to save real human lives.

This death toll amounts to mass killings. Because human beings could prevent most of them it is tantamount to mass murder. Who are the tantamount mass murderers?
All people who oppose the reforms that would save these lives. Most immediately, directly and specifically responsible are that portion of the 535 members of congress who are preventing reforms. They and their colleagues who favor reform have it in their hands to prevent these deaths, to prevent these murders.

It doesn't matter what their constituents want, what their corporate bosses want. Congressmen and women have the egos to run and be elected to these controlling congressional offices. They have taken the controls and the responsibility in their hands. Let them act in accordance with the value that each human life is sacred and should be saved from death. People who prevent reforms, are perpetrating deaths as surely as the murderers of Darfur, Rwanda, Cambodia and Germany. They should be labeled Mass Murderers until they save lives instead of destroying them.

In the current debate these murderers are the hypocritical killer whores who oppose a government provided health care option; they would rather see millions die than lose their masters' cash and backing. Rather than be in office that permits them to inflict so much injury and death on us they should be in prison and out of our way to saving lives.

THE REMEDIES

What could prevent most of these deaths?

I.Healthcare in the U.S. is not a system; it's a chaotic, dysfunctional hodge podge.
Remedy is to plan and implement a comprehensive, flexible, empirically self-correcting system.
Define goals including affordable costs to society and individuals. Designate all variables in system that need to be designed in interaction with all other variables.
Design each variable. Model all variables in interaction with the others. Adjust each variable to permit attainment of goals. Implement variables over a sufficient but limited period of time to enable businesses and individuals to adapt to new conditions. A healthcare system will comprise but not be limited to:
A. Preventive education and action from pre-pregnancy to grave including ultimate elimination of all forms of drug abuse and dependancy, optimal nutrition, stress minimization and exercise, optimal self healthcare and self medication.
B. A national information system
C. A national research system on the etiology of disease, the treatment and medication for disease and accidents covering, facilities, devices, medication, practice.
D. A national or a nationally subsidized education and training system for all doctors, nurses, technicians, aides, administrators, and all others involved in delivery of healthcare.
E.A national evaluation, policing and enforcement system.
F. A national planning system based on research and evaluation.
G. A national, regional or state run healthcare implementation system.
II.There are currently too few crackerjack doctors, nurses and aides and too many under intelligent, undertrained healthcare personnel.
Remedy: Increase number of medical and nursing schools and other training facilities for technicians and aides. Raise selection standards for entry, stressing intelligence, personality stability and motivation as well as cognitive preparation.
Make medical and nursing professions more attractive to brilliant people. Raise income levels, relieve inimical burdens such as insurance paperwork and justifications, Rationalize training, for example, by eliminating sleep deprivation, maximizing personally supervised apprentice practice by crackerjack personnel in each field. Help doctors to establish new practices where society needs them by subsidizing needed plant and equipment for individuals and for nearby clinics and hospitals. Healthcare should be done in an unhurried and unharried personal practice not subject to extraneously imposed tension or stress. Whatever stress in integrally involved in practice should emanate from concern for proper diagnosis, treatment and medical vicissitudes.
III.Business competition generates a burden of waste and want. In affluent urban areas hospitals compete for patients and usage by overbuilding plant, over installing equipment and overusing plant and equipment in order to amortize them, and by over advertising. Meanwhile rural and poor urban areas go under served.
Remedy: Federal, regional or state healthcare systems with planning, research, evaluation and adaptation activities as well as operating activities. There should be a comprehensive federal information system, a federal research department, a federal evaluation system and a federally subsidized adaptation system. It may be that a federal operational system may also be best. Regional or state systems may afford scope for innovation and cost containment that are not possible in a single system.
IV.Fraud and other criminality waste resources.
Remedies: Complete Ethics training as part of all healthcare education and training. Frequent periodic peer ethics discussions in operational settings. A federal oversight, policing and enforcement system with unannounced inspections, warnings, suspensions, criminal trials, fines and imprisonment.

V.Ignorance, negligence and inadvertent malpractice.
Remedies: Proper education and training. Non-stressful practice conditions. Every doctor's office, hospital, clinic and medical training facility should be equipped with one or more crackerjack medical information specialists who constantly search the national information system and the world wide web for information on new research findings, treatment practices, medications, education and training. These specialists should provide doctors, nurses and other practitioners with the gists of their findings every day, whenever feasible and ad lib as required by patients complaints and conditions. Drug detailing, drug advertisements and insurance shit should be totally eliminated.
Too little empirical disease, accident, and healthcare research is done.
Remedies: Research funded by the federal government, the states, foundations and the private sector should be vastly expanded. Personnel now involved in insurance, advertising and salesmanship should be retrained and absorbed into the healthcare research, training, administration and implementation systems. All healthcare findings should be routinely published in easily accessible on line and paper media. Health care facilities should be cleaned up and kept clean.

VI. Practice should be done in unstressed, unhurried settings. There should be enough practitioners for this to happen.
Remedy: Instead of becoming lawyers, financial schemers and advisers, insurance personnel, medical device, drug and equipment salesmen and advertisers, people should be trained and employed at the levels appropriate to their capabilities in the healthcare system and should be paid handsomely for their services Training and education facilities will need to be expanded.

VII.Doctors and other practitioners should be immune to suits. Committees of peers and outside scientific and legal experts should review errors and poor healthcare outcomes. They should decide on the status, training needs and supervisory needs of practitioners and on the remedies and compensation for victims of errors. The government should set up a fund to pay victims of health care errors and malpractice.

There is no way costs can be contained or lowered as long as we pay for useless insurers, wrongful competition that spends wastefully on plant, equipment, supplies and advertisements, fraudulent charges and overcharges, and defensive prescriptions and referrals. Further, as long as we pay for health care needed because people behave badly as a consequence of poor education and information, and as long as non evidentiary treatment is practiced we will be unable to limit costs to the lowest possible.

A final point. The financial system should be simplified to provide loans and equity capital needed for productive and constructive purposes, rather than money made on fancy financial instrumentation. Incomes derived from financial creativity and manipulation should be severely capped, probably commensurate with teaching at schools and universities. This will motivate many brilliant people who are attracted to the riches of finance to use their brilliance to improve health care research and practice and other productive endeavors like engineering, manufacturing and environmental services. This will not only free up and divert money to add to improved health care, but also, put us on a competitive path with Japan, Korea, Israel, China, India and the other smart nations.

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