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Quote of the Day
From Paul Shoop, a retired attorney who lives in "an enclave of multimillion-dollar homes off curving Malibu Canyon Road," on the LA water board's proposal to ban septic tanks and install a modern sewer system in Malibu:
It's like living in a Third World country not to have sewers. But nobody wants to pay that sort of exorbitant fee. If we need a sewer system, you expect government to provide that service.
Quite so. Municipal services should appear magically for wealthy communities like Malibu.
Of course, the proposed fee for the new sewer system really is pretty exorbitant. But a big part of the reason for that is because Malibu is so sparsely settled, which means the cost of the system gets divided up among a small number of homeowners. And why is Malibu so sparsely settled? Because the current wealthy homeowners like it that way. Apparently they just don't like paying the price.
assessments
I'm old enough that I remember when my family was assessed for sidewalk installation and sewer installation - two separate assessments, not together. You paid it, for crying out loud - it wasn't a gift, you paid to have your property upgraded. Boo hoo. The entitlements these guys think they have - it just boggles and infuriates.
plus ca change...
Ah, California, the birthplace of the movement that gave us demand for govt services but outrage at taxes to pay for them.
Are you guys serious? Jesus
Are you guys serious? Jesus Christ, read the damn article!
He's not saying, oh boo hoo, I want the city to pay for my sewer. The city is MANDATING that he pay for whatever they say the sewer is going to cost. His only other option? Shit in a bucket, because the septic system that HE ALREADY PAYS FOR is going to be outlawed.
Sounds like boo hoo to me.
Sounds like boo hoo to me. Sewers cost money and they cost more money in sparsely populated areas with high relief and a proclivity for landslides. I know folks in a dense flatland 1950's subdivision in Oregon who had to pay a 30K up front per parcel for hook up and the local trunk line. That was 10 years ago.
As far as the septic system goes, I'm not sure what your point is. If everything that used to be legal to put in the water was still legal, we'd be able to light our well water on fire and poison our enemies with it.
...
This city government, it is not elected by those who live there? Imposed by some shady foreign superpower?
Community sewers = socialism!
Real Americans have an outhouse at the back corner of their property, next to the neighbors’ well.
Progressives ranted and
Progressives ranted and raved, whined and cried, about no-bid government contracts to evil companies like Haliburton. Now, when the shoe is on the other foot, this taxpayer is wrong. Just wrong.
Good for this homeowner to question his overlords. Why trust what the government bid says? Since the government isn't paying for it, I really doubt they are going to question the bid too closely.
And what's wrong with a septic tank? Why outlaw them? They basically do the same job as a sewer system. The only difference is that the water company can't charge you an arm and a leg and some union somewhere misses out on a couple of new public works employees.
"Quite so. Municipal services should appear magically for wealthy communities like Malibu."
Why not? Government services magically appear all the time for Americans who don't pay a dime in income taxes.
...
And those people who don't pay a dime magically don't do anything that requires these services?
Oh, wait, they do.
Idiots. Want your servants to live without sewers and health care, and not pay for it.
Someone must have put a
Someone must have put a septic system next to MacGruber's childhood water supply.
Virtually every city in the
Virtually every city in the country has gone through this at some point or other. Once a city becomes dense enough, it needs sewers, and the problem is more critical along the coast, where septic systems end up fouling the beaches. The residents always pay for the sewer hookup, usually directly, and once the sewer system comes, connection is not optional. If you build a new house, you have to hook it up to the sewer system, and you have to pay for it.
Look, I can kind of
Look, I can kind of sympathize with the septic users when we're talking about a older, poorer farmers having to spend thousands to connect to a sewer system because a bunch of McMansions just got built down the road. Septic systems are just fine for rural areas, sewers are economical in the cities, it's just the damn sprawl that makes everything so painful, and therefore the costs of sewage ought to be borne by the new development. But developers are more powerful than farmers, so that's not how things work.
But, I mean, come on. It's Malibu. Pay for your damn sewer or sell your ocean cliffside mansion to someone who can.
Mr. Shoop is breaking my
Mr. Shoop is breaking my heart. Actually, James, he could sh*t in his pool. Looks like it would hold a lot, and he is full of it.
And who pays for government?
And who pays for government? I pay something like $1200 per year for water/sewage and if I had a connection problem, it would be mine and mine alone to deal with.
There is a very big disconnect in California -- like a few thousand missing synapses that allow people to see the relationship between "tax" and "spend."
When health insurance is
When health insurance is bankrupting the little people, Shoop et al. don't want those costs spread out. When he is going to get hit for a hefty sewer assessment, the cost of THAT should be spread out over the system so he doesn't have to sell any of his shares in Berkshire Hathaway. Huh. We are already subsidizing the cost of utilities, fire and police services, etc. for all the urban sprawl folks.
Anyway...just assuming it's a no bid contract is ridiculous. I haven't seen a community yet that doesn't competitively bid sewer construction projects. Furthermore, it is reasonable to assume that Shoop and his lovely neighbors have resisted any attempts to increase housing density along Malibu Canyon Road, so they are partly to blame for the (assumed) higher project cost. Finally...Malibu Canyon Road...I'll bet that's not flat land. I'll bet the topography will make for some pretty expensive sewer construction cost (plus it has to be designed to survive earthquakes). Yup...that'll run ya.
Then there's this gem...
"And what's wrong with a septic tank? Why outlaw them? They basically do the same job as a sewer system."
I wish the Lounsbury were an environmental engineer, so he could give this comment the attention it deserves. I can't bring myself to do it.
As far as sewer rates go, the rate setting process is rather complicated. A bond issue is often used to pay for construction. As new users hook up, they pay a connection fee. It's really not included in your quarterly bill. That's for the labor and energy (electricity for aeration) to run the system. It's also for sludge disposal, which accounts for a large percentage of the total O&M cost. Most systems are pretty efficiently run. There are some rather glaring exceptions, but I could get in trouble for naming the ones I'm familiar with...
Oh, those poor residents of Malibu Colony!
Can't somebody please do something to help them?
Interesting commentary
Interesting commentary Kevin, but I will also bet you that Malibu voted for Obama. So before you go raking the rich over the coals, remember that many of them vote the same way you do.
Actually, I almost made a
Actually, I almost made a joke in the post about how I hoped this guy wasn't a Democrat. But in any case, do you really think I'm not allowed to criticize anyone who voted for Obama?
Why do they need a sewer?
It's not like their shit stinks or anything...Just let it pile up, and I'm sure the bouquets of lavendar and persimmon will just improve their quality of life.
Actually, to know if it's a
Actually, to know if it's a stupid idea or not it would be good to read the engineering report that evaluated the alternatives. There may be technology or construction methods available that you aren't aware of (like directional drilling). Or, it could just be stupid!
The other thing to consider is the balance between the town and outlying properties. It is likely that the town needs a centralized system, and can't afford it unless the people farther out connect, too. Again, you'd have to read the report to see how they did the economic analysis.
It would be funny if they proposed this knowing that Shoop and his neighbors would bitch about any change to the septic systems. Now, if they come back with an acceptable alternative that is 50% lower, the people will be ecstatic. I doubt if this was the actual strategy, though.
That having been said, I would be interested if they considered a very small centralized system for the town, with outlying properties required to install small on-site wastewater systems. That strikes me as more cost effective, but I don't know enough about the system to say that with certainty.
Here's one of the reports.(http://www.ci.malibu.ca.us/download/index.cfm/fuseaction/download/cid/59...). It doesn't look like they considered on-site treatment. It also includes stormwater collection and treatment, so that's a big piece that was missing from the LA Times piece. By the way, they are recommending pressure sewers rather than gravity, which isn't stupid. This report doesn't include costs, so those are probably in a later report.
Composting toilets aren't the rarest thing in the world...
Think of how well the medicinal marijuana will grow in Malibu when it is fertilized with organic compost and kitchen scraps and given plenty of washing-machine and shower runoff to grow by!
it's about time
The privileged few of Malibu have been fighting sewers for over 40 years, and they have outrageous amounts of fecal bacteria in sand & surf to show for it -- not to mention a degraded Malibu Creek watershed and high risk of complete disaster if a quake or landslide hits *just right*
Malibu incorporated as a city <20 years ago on this issue alone, because the county had finally grown enough of a backbone to pass a bond measure to fund the sewer system while instituting a moratorium on septic tank permits.
The expense to convert from septic tanks to sewer system has grown as the inevitable has been delayed over & over again. The residents and local govt(s) have passed up every reasonable opportunity to do the right thing -- so if this gets imposed on them by a regulatory body (the Regional Water Quality Control Board) operating on the authority of state & federal environmental laws, they have only themselves to blame.
No sympathy here -- this should have happened 20+ years ago, if not 30.