The Landmark Forum: 42 Hours, $500, 65 Breakdowns
My lost weekend with the trademark happy, bathroom-break hating, slightly spooky inheritors of est.
AFTER NEARLY 40 HOURS inside the basement of Landmark Education's world headquarters, I have not Transformed. Nor have I "popped" like microwave popcorn, as the Forum Leader striding back and forth at the front of the windowless gray room has promised. In fact, by the time he starts yelling and stabbing the board with a piece of chalk around hour 36, it's become clear that I'll be the hard kernel left at the bottom of this three-and-a-half-day Landmark Forum. I have, however, Invented the Possibility of a Future in which I get a big, fat raise, a Future I'll Choose to Powerfully Enroll my bosses in, now that I am open to Miracles Around Money.
My reluctance to achieve Breakthrough Results is clearly not shared by many of my fellow Forum attendees. Even on day one, most seem positively elated to have plunked down 500 bucks for a more efficient, passionate, powerful life. "Hey, it's cheaper than therapy," a therapist-turned-real estate agent tells me. He ponders how to persuade one of his employees to pony up for the Forum. She's going through a rough patch, he explains—the recession, her marriage.
Not that being broke or brokenhearted would make her a minority in this room; several attendees talk about being between jobs, and one woman says she's on welfare. In the scribbled shorthand of my furtive notes, PW stands for "incidents of public weeping." I lose track after the PW count hits 65.
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Get With the Program: Landmark vs. Lifespring
Where Landmark lines up relative to Oprah, Scientology, and common sense.
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From Erhard to Harvard: A Landmark Timeline
When Harvard Business School got involved with Landmark, who bought Erhard's abode, and David Letterman's forgotten role.
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The Hunger Artist: Let Them Eat est
The 1978 Mother Jones article in which "we confront Werner Erhard with our awareness of his manifestation of what we're clear is a big scam."
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Café Est?
East Bay Express was right to be annoyed and disappointed by Cafe Gratitude.
Landmark Education, a for-profit "employee-owned" private company, took in $89 million last year offering leadership and development seminars (and cruises, and dating services, and courses for kids and teens). It claims that more than 1 million seekers have sat through its basic training, which is offered in seven languages in 20 countries. Its consulting firm, the Vanto Group, has coached employees from Apple, ExxonMobil, JPMorgan Chase, and the Pentagon.
Though it's hardly a secret, Landmark does not advertise that it is the buttoned-down reincarnation of the ultimate '70s self-actualization philosophy, est. Erhard Seminars Training was founded by Werner Erhard, a former used car salesman who'd changed his name from Jack Rosenberg, moved to Northern California, and dabbled in Dale Carnegie, Zen, and Scientology before seizing upon the idea that you, and only you, are responsible for your own happiness or unhappiness, success or failure. Est's marathon Transformation sessions were legendary for their confrontational tactics (Erhard calling his students "assholes"), inscrutable platitudes ("What is, is, and what ain't, ain't"), and the pressure put on participants to bring in new recruits for the next cycle of seminars.
In 1985, Erhard changed est's name to the innocuous-sounding The Forum. Amid controversy over his convoluted tax records, he left the country in 1991 and slid into obscurity. But before he did, he sold the company's "technology" to his former employees, who used it to create The Landmark Forum. Erhard's brother, Harry Rosenberg, is Landmark's CEO.
Like a successful grad of its own program, Landmark has shed its past hang-ups and realized Breakthrough Results. "We are on the list of offerings in the human-resources departments in hundreds of companies and organizations around the world," boasts PR director Deborah Beroset. The company's language of personal productivity, confidence, and communication (much of it trademarked) has become white noise in corporate America—and possibly in your personal circle, too. "Authentic life," anyone?
Landmark's corporate clients bring not just respectability but more warm bodies bearing checks. (Landmark relies entirely on word-of-mouth advertising.) The yoga apparel chain Lululemon pays for its employees to enroll in Landmark. Other firms have been sued by employees claiming they were pressured to attend the Forum: In 2007, a Virginia man accused his former employer of firing him for his "refusal to embrace Landmark religious beliefs." Not that Landmark itself condones such arm twisting. At the start of my session, we were asked to affirm that we were attending of our own free will. A couple of people who confessed otherwise were asked to leave. Still, I talked with several who'd been sent by their employers.
The profitable field Landmark helped pioneer is now crowded with life coaches, time-management gurus, and productivity bloggers. Like David Allen's Getting Things Done or Stephen Covey's The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Landmark is just one of dozens of quasi-philosophies that promise to empty your inbox and fulfill your personal goals. And maybe survive the recession. Since the Great Depression, when Dale Carnegie's seminars on how to win friends and influence people became popular, the personal development industry has bloomed under darkening economic skies. Forget work/life balance; that's so 2008. How to do more in less time is today's hot productivity trend. (Landmark's website touts a survey in which one-third of Forum grads reported that their incomes rose at least 25 percent after participating; 94 percent of those attributed it to the program.) Yet if Landmark is just another outpost in lifehacking country, why does it seem so insidious?
Part of it is the in-your-face, hard-sell ethos embedded in the corporate DNA it inherited from est. Forum grads are urged to stay involved and "invite" friends and family. After finishing the Forum, I received calls asking me to volunteer at the Landmark call center and come in for one-on-one coaching. The company also vigorously guards its reputation from critics. After I told Beroset I'd be writing an article on my mixed feelings about the Forum, she called several times and sent me an email that might be described as threatening—but in the most benign, centered kind of way.
I first heard about Landmark while working as a Peace Corps recruiter. Every now and again I'd see it listed at the end of someone's resume, occupying the same spot as, say, a Kiwanis leadership award, or a pastime like water polo. Applicants described it as a professional development seminar—most had been signed up by employers—and gave glowing reports. "You should try it," they invariably added. I forgot about the whole thing until a generally sane, well-meaning friend called me one weekend with a frog in his throat. He was at some time-management seminar, he'd really gotten a lot out of this thing, and would I want to come by and learn more next Tuesday night? It was hard to say no. But then I googled Landmark.
Eventually, as part of an ongoing attempt to hack my own overscheduled life, I did sign up for the Landmark Forum. I vowed to go in with an open mind and to follow the rules, no matter how restrictive. That meant taking just one meal break per 13-hour session, no Advil or other over-the-counter drugs, no speaking out unless called to the microphone by the Leader, and wearing my name tag at all times. I signed a six-page disclaimer in which I declared that I understood that after attending the Forum, people with no history of mental or emotional problems had experienced "brief, temporary episodes of emotional upset ranging from heightened activity...to mild psychotic-like behavior."
At 9 a.m. on a Friday I find myself sardined into a basement room with 129 other people, listening to David Cunningham, a boomer in a dark suit and bright purple shirt, whose first language seems to be Tent-Revival Baptist Preacher. (I later learn that he was raised a fundamentalist in Florida.) He informs us that he has personally led more than 50,000 people to Transformation. He's here to tell us that "anything you want for yourself and your life is available from being here this weekend." He starts by taking a few questions from the floor. A querulous man observes that the phrases carefully ruler-lined on the chalkboard seem like poor English. ("In The Landmark Forum you will bring forth the presence of a New Realm of Possibility for yourself and your life.") David agrees. "It's very poor English. You know why? Because the usual confines of language would not allow your Transformation this weekend."
Another man is called to the mic. He wants to know how Landmark is different from est. David sighs. "If I had to sum it up, here's what I'd say: They're both about Transformation, but est was very experiential. It was the '70s, okay? Your access was an experience. Your access this weekend is going to be just through conversation. We realized we could do it just through conversation." And that's the last we hear of that.
A slight, blond woman sitting next to me confides that she's here only because her boyfriend paid her way—with the subtext that this was an offer she couldn't refuse. She shows me a packet of notes tied with a bow. They're from a friend who attended a Forum and thought it was brainwashing. In the corner of the top sheet is written, "To be opened on 'breaks.'" Why "breaks" in quotes, I wonder?
I soon find out. "Break" is a misleading term at an all-day workshop that offers no snacks, no drinks other than Dixie cups of water, a single mealtime, and only loosely scheduled pauses to use the bathroom. Also, every break has a corresponding assignment. The first one: Call someone who'd like to hear from you and tell them where you are. I call my brother. "So, it's like the Hare Krishnas of time management," he says slowly. On the next break, I hide in a bathroom stall and read a Landmark flyer seemingly translated from Martian: "What would it be like if the San Francisco center was your center of being, and reflected in this, you were being your center?...What if your way of being in the center gives the center its being and you are given your being from the space created in the center?"
By ten o'clock Friday night, 13 hours in, David is curing headaches with visualization techniques (an old Erhard trick) and redefining basic math. "How many items am I holding up?" he asks, holding up a Kleenex box and a chalkboard eraser. "Two," we say in unison. He puts the eraser down. "Now how many am I holding up?" he asks. One? "Two," he says. "The box and everything else." We repeat this until it makes sense—kind of. David promises that tomorrow, people will start to pop.
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This is a Great Service (writing / publishing this article)
Having had a similar (I bailed on Sat. evening) experience in Austin last year, I am very gratified to see this scam exposed.
This article shows there's alot to be gained in Landmark Forum
There have been some critical comments on this article that infer the author says something I do not think the author intended. Laura McClure did not call Landmark a scam. Infact she said a lot of postive things about it and represents what she wrote as her personal experience and acknowledges the value that people got in doing the course, including herself. I am always in awe that despite the fact that Mother Jones is about raising awareness and making a difference, that so many of the comments on articles are just opinionating and criticizing things. There are a number of comments on this article that are simply regurgitating hysterical untrue things that you can find on the web. I assume that most of us who read Mother Jones care deeply about issues and want to stay informed presumably to take informed action.
But then maybe not.
Almost all of the people who have negative things to say about Landmark here have not participated. At best they went to a sales presentation, (which I admit was annoying for me) and from that conclude that their long time friend has been conned and duped. The vast vast majority of people who did the course will tell you amazing things that they accomplished as a result of doing it. More than 1.1 million people have done the course and I promise you they are not the types that show up to a Sarah Palin speech calling Obama on muslim non-citizen who hates America.
What could all of these peoeple (anonymous posters and Sarah Palin fan's alike) be creating if they were not opinionating online or showing up at rallies shouting at the top of their lungs repeating lies they took at face value.
Landmark Education's official response link here
FYI, we printed Landmark Education's official response to this article in our Sept/Oct letters to the editor section. You can read it here: http://www.motherjones.com/toc/2009/09/backtalk
Laura McClure
New Media Editor, Mother Jones
http://www.motherjones.com/authors/laura-mcclure
thanks
i worked for an organization in portland oregon - the taylor group - which was trained by these people and their peers. they hired me as a psychotherapist to work individually with clients (and i later realized 'enroll' them in classes which would transform them over the weekend (if they continued to take increasingly expert level classes)). it only took a few minutes to realize i was in the midst of a cult. this was 13 years ago. the taylor group continues to 'serve' some of the very same clients i remember - who were humiliated publicly on a regular basis. i suppose the most dependent ones. would they be better served by writing a check and going out to actually live their lives for the rest of the year?
Another view
Here’s another take on Landmark and the Forum, which I took a number of years ago. For me the course was very useful in that it helped me see where I’d made decisions in my life that limited me.
A year and a half ago, I spent December and January in the great state of Iowa. I was a volunteer for Barack Obama in the weeks leading up to the caucuses. I knocked on thousands of doors, called thousands voters, managed a huge database, and after I’d gained the trust of the staff there, managed huge teams of volunteers to do the same in the week leading up to the caucus. I was one of the many people in Iowa who had the opportunity to contribute to Obama’s victory in that state. I got to be proud of myself, as someone who didn’t just have political opinions, but was actually doing something about them.
If I had not done the Landmark Forum, I’m quite clear that I would have done none of this. You see, I grew up and extremely shy and private person. For me, the idea of door knocking or cold calling strangers appeared about as pleasant as drinking battery acid. When I went through the Forum course, I came face to face with my fear of interacting with strangers. I realized that I hadn’t been shy when I was little, but that when I switched schools growing up I didn’t trust the new group of kids and teachers and just stopped talking to people. Pretty soon I was the shy kid in everyone’s eyes, including my own.
I realized in that course that if I could decide to be shy, I could decide to be outgoing. Given everything we’re dealing with in this country, I feel like being shy is a luxury I can no longer afford.
I say all this because my experience was radically different from that of the author – the basic thrust of the course, in my opinion, was ‘what’s it going to take to make the kind of difference that’s needed in the world?’
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If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.
My sister was sucked into
My sister was sucked into this. She attended a session, "uncovered" a lot of experiences from her childhood (experiences that, based on time lines and locations, can't possibly be true -- though Landmark will tell you that type of logic is just us non-participants being unsupportive), and ended up having a complete emotional breakdown. She's been in therapy for five years now, bouncing back and forth from psychologist to psychologist since she refuses to listen to them when they try to deprogram her from all of the damage done by these "educators."
Instead of being a program that's supposed to help you get over your past, it instead seems to make people drag the past back up and then live every moment in it in an attempt to not live in it. On top of that, it makes people dependent on the program, convincing them that they get their strength and freedom from Landmark and not themselves. I know several other people who have done it now, some encouraged by my sister (who continues to shell out thousands on these "seminars"), and they all come back with that same sense of reliance on Landmark in order to move on in life. And I suppose that's exactly what these frauds desire.
Landmark operates pretty
Landmark operates pretty heavily in both the UK and Australia. I have luckily never had a 'friend' call me to forgive and offer to change my life, but it has happened to my sister and a close friend of mine. Landmark has taken over my sisters best friend's life, to the detriment of her daughter and career, her 10 year plan basically a series of landmark courses much to the frustration of my sister.
The landmark virus hit my friend's boyfriends family very hard, turning a father and his two grown and usually quite smart sons into brainwashed jargon spouters, my friend had to threaten a possible ending to the relationship if he didn't quit hassling her to attend. He seems to have finally gotten it out of his system, but still, you can't underestimate the power of these vile Landmark people to manipulate and control. Viral brainwashing, ugh.
Its consulting firm, the
Its consulting firm, the Vanto Group, has coached employees from Apple, ExxonMobil, JPMorgan Chase, and the Pentagon.
My sister got duped into
My sister got duped into this cult. I went to one of the initial meetings in LA so as to appease her. After two hours I was dying to get out. People were telling these tales of turning their lives around miraculously. They all felt like plants and it all seemed staged. Then a young Russian dude got up to give his story and he launches into a ripping diatribe about how Landmark is full of crap, will steal your money and is essentially a brain washing cult out to strip you of your cash. The drama of the whole thing was thrilling. The guru dude leading the thing (and he was Indian so it was doubly awesome), some ex-Microsoft VP of something or other, got all flustered and defensive and basically took the mic from the Russian guy by force. Russian guy was asked to leave and about 1/3 of the crowd, like me, was cheering the guy on. Another portion of the crowd, about 1/3, was aghast and couldn't believe the nerve of the Russian guy. The final 1/3 were totally befuddled and didn't know what to make of what they just saw.
The Indian guru BS'd the crowd about how some people are negative and listen "to the little negative narratives" in their minds and this Russian guy was a prime example of everything Landmark set out to "cure."
Finally, after two and half grueling hours wondering if and when I'd be permitted to leave, there was a break. I RAN for the door. The creepily business casual dressed "volunteers" smiled meekly and looked nervous as I bolted past. "How do I get out of here?" I asked. One of the creepy volunteers said, "but you're coming back. We're not done yet." She wasn't asking. She was making a statement.
I found the elevators, but took the stairs just to be safe. Once I got the hell out of that nightmare-ish place I called my brainwashed sister and told her she was in a cult. She still hangs with them. But never mentions it to anyone in the family.
People are gullible. It's
People are gullible. It's beyond me how anyone could fall for anything like this - and I include most religious groups in the "this" category.
Laura- I appreciate your personal experience and......
Laura- Sharing a positive experience acknowledging that her experience was valid, I was glad to see you acknowledge that a lot people do get value.
I had a great experience doing this course. I was in a similar place in my life of being over scheduled and wanting to find a balance between work and my life that I was happy with. I friend I really admire suggested that I do it. I am not someone you would describe as touchy feely and when my friend told me that she did the Forum all the way back when we were both in college together, I was surprised and impressed; she is someone who I have always thought had her act together and is not particularly touchy feely herself. My friend’s endorsement was enough to get me past the “sky is falling” things I read on the internet and I am very glad I did it. I had long come to accept that I was never going to be close with my Father and older sister and yet in this course and in particular through seeing “P.W” in realizing there own responsibility for closing down their relationships, I saw that I was doing the exact same thing with my father and sister. Years ago, they said some critical things about what they called my “life style choice” and I always assumed that their theology would be more important than me.
I called them each during the course and when I “took responsibility” for pushing them away, I heard two things that I had never heard before. One was that it was very hard for my father, because even though he hated the sin and loved he sinner, he acknowledged that I am happy and that was important to him. The other was my sister who said that she missed me, not that she missed me in church but just that she missed me as a sister. Those two conversations have changed everything, because I realized that I ever wanted to be around my family was to be myself and I realize now that I can. They may think what they think, and I may think what I think, but that doesn’t have to dictate our actions. BTW, I have to admit that I was a “PW” a few times during the course. All in all I am very glad I did it, because if nothing else I am more patient with people and that alone makes life a little more pleasant.
Landmark Exposed
An old girlfriend of mine was involved with Landmark. I was brought to her "graduation" and they attempted to sign me up at the end of the night. I don't understand why people fall for their manipulative techniques. They are so transparent to me. I'm happy you exposed what they are really about...cash. My 2 hour experience was truly cringe-worthy. I think it's shameful how they exploit people. Good stuff.
Uhhhh.....isn't that what
Uhhhh.....isn't that what businesses are all about...cash? How come you don't complain when Apple, or Coca-Cola or Visa and Mastercard asks you for money? They are providing you with a product that costs money. It's called the "Free Market." That's what Landmark Education is too, it's a product that is being exchanged for money. And they don't hide that. They are very upfront about it. If it were a cult or a fraud, they would say one thing and operate in a totally different way, thus "scamming" you.
They don't 'ask' you for
They don't 'ask' you for money. They harrass, harangue, corner, shame, manipulate, push, embarrass and criticize you. I'm pretty sure no sales clerk in the Apple kiosk is doing this, or the Coke vending machine either. Clearly you've never been to one of these "education" events, or aren't being truthful about the practices.
After trying several times to say no, or to leave, I was cornered by two people and asked "why can't you make a decision for yourself?", and "why won't you take care of yourself?". I said I WAS making a decision - it was NO. They just don't give up. Keep your 'free market' comments to yourself. This actually IS NOT what this is about, and you know it.
Yeah, Landmark is a business
But so what? They actually offer a product called The Landmark Forum that has a reasonable cost (it is my understanding that the course currently costs $385 and not $500 as stated in the article) and that provides extraordinary results in many peoples' lives. Having taken some of their courses, I agree that their "hard sell" tactics can be incredibly annoying. But in my case, I got much more value in benefits than the small amount of cash I put in, and I'm able to ignore the parts that I don't like. The particular kind of education that Landmark offers requires that participants be willing to bring something to the table in order to get the results available. If those participants are only willing to be right about how wrong it is, then their results will probably be similar to Laura McClure's (who admits in her second paragraph that she was reluctant to achieve breakthrough results). I disagree with the poster above who said that "people are gullible." I think that people are so afraid of being gullible that they won't let go for a minute of their cynicism and resignation about how the world is. There's nothing to "fall for" here! There is simply a course offered by a business at a reasonable price that promises breakthrough results if you participate fully in the course.
This was not smart, fearless journalism! This was reporting on her own cynicism and resignation, pure and simple.
And yet
My experience with est was almost 25 years ago. They promised me that it would transform my ability to experience life so that the things that were bothering or blocking me would clear up just in the living of life itself. And that's what happened. Now, a quarter century later, I'm neither rich nor famous (and I was both, at the time). What I am is secure and satisfied, which is a much better place to be. est gave me a frame in which to examine my life, and I made the best use of it that I could.
Erhard could be a scoundrel for all I care. The organization can be inscrutable and manipulative. I haven't had any contact with them except in a professional capacity (I occasionally sell them stuff), since 1985, but I'm pleased to have done the training and think it was worth far more to me than the time and money it cost.
... and yet ...
i graduated from the est training about 35 years ago ... the seminar was paid for
by a small retail business where i was employed. it was a prerequisite to working
there, with all the estees. personally, i found it a bit boring only because i was
raised in a strict european household. werner's shouting was much too familiar! i
learned to say "i got it" much too frequently and think i was more evolved at that
point to be affected. always felt that it was not a bad deal for shy, introverted
folks ... if they went in with open mind and prepared for the barrage of insults!
Forum
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tagged as:
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I can only double ditto SlideGuy and then some. No words could possibly do justice to the value I seized for myself from my WORK in Landmark and its predecessor est. In brief, all the dreams I did not know I had have come true for me and continue to unfold on a daily magical basis. I stopped working when I was 39 as a result of a Landmark Money seminar, have traveled the world, make huge contributions to myself and others and am able to live out totally Helen Keller’s admonition that life is either a daring adventure or it is nothing using the technology of being I was introduced to at est 30 years ago and Landmark.
a pattern?
Does anyone else see the pattern in comments here?
-Those who have completed a Landmark course believe it has added to their lives.
-Those who have not think it's a cult.
Which group has the bulk of the information on the subject?
Those who haven't completed the course, or those who have completed the course?
A question to the author:
Is this article still "Smart, Fearless Journalism" if its author didn't finish the course?
zach, this author did finish the course.
read to the end.
New Media Editor, Mother Jones
http://www.motherjones.com/authors/laura-mcclure
Kool-aid
Finishing the "course" is equivalent to listening to your mother telling you to finish your plate: you end up getting into the habit of overeating and you get fat. Those who finish the "Course" have drunk the Kool-Aid and have been persuaded that the "course" works (otherwise they would have wasted the hefty fee?) and justify all that they do by the twisted rhetoric and logic they they learned. And by the way, control is maintained by pushing for the "advanced courses" and dangling the possibility of "teaching" at the LF.
Had enough friends and acquaintances who went through it that I went to one of the orientation sessions. Left before I became the Manchurian candidate.
And by the way, the number of "positives" toward the LF in the comments strongly suggests an organized campaign by the LF, scientology-like.
just consider that it works
Yes, there's scary stuff about The Forum. You go into a building with smiling people dressed business casual, very many of whom are not paid to be there and don't get a toaster if you register like in a normal business. Many are bursting at the seams about what they get out of it, and you're like, "fat chance."
If I heard you right, you've got plenty of friends and acquaintances who've recommended the LF to you, so you went to check it out. Consider that they're for real about how much it benefited them. You said "the number of 'positives' toward the LF" suggests an organized campaign--um, what? How do you get to be an informed citizen for your critique, but people who disagree have to be plants and hacks? Is it really that hard to imagine that the LF works?
Zach- I completed the Forum
Zach-
I completed the Forum and the Advanced Course.
It is a business cult that can cause serious damage. It can also, for some, provide a euphoria and a sense of community. Everything said about the hard sell is true, and only the half of it.
Zach, your "already always
Zach, your "already always listening" is guiding your commentary. Don't presume that you know your audience ... remember when Werner said "what you hear you've never heard before" ... didn't you learn anything?
Not all of us who participated in Landmark believe it's been a great positive experience. Not all who didn't participate believe it's a cult.
I participated in Landmark (back then it was WE&A) for well over a year, did the Forum, the 6 Day, the Communication courses, TMLP, assisting, and various seminars. A bankruptcy, an assault at the hands of a fellow Forum graduate, and years of therapy later, I think it's a mindf---- designed to suck in emotionally needy and possibly unstable individuals.
The good that's come from Landmark came after I quit the group. I don't spend hours upon hours assisting, calling, or participating in useless seminars which only purpose to recruit new members. I don't spend money I don't have. I've gone on to beocme life partners with a wonderful, psychologically healthy man who lives more in "integrity" than ANY Landmark graduate I've ever known. I've achieved two Master's degrees; a singing career, and work that is an expression of my soul's purpose. Landmark didn't give me ANY of the tools to do all that, Zach. It only served as a roadblock and a smokescreen that kept me away from claiming my own personal power and relying upon my own inner compass.
Zach, if this was such a great experience for you, I don't think you'd be as defensive as you are about it. I sense that Landmark is not "it" for you, and I think that you realize it, deep down inside.
Cultish, but potentially useful and subversive
I took the course about 18 years ago. I found it overbearingly cultish and money-grubbing in many ways. But the approach and techniques (what they call "the technology") is useful, largely because they've cobbled it together from established systems that work, such as transactional analysis, cognitive psychology, Buddhism, etc. So, if you go into it with an open mind but a firmly closed wallet, it can be a good experience.
The approach is also subversive, although they try to capitalize on the subversion they engender by positing the transformative, transgressive act to be that of signing up for more courses, convincing your people to do so and keeping on giving them money. Fortunately, for me, I realized The Possibility that they were full of beans on that score, and passed.
One last interesting note: throughout my course, there was one guy, an English chap, who just wasn't buying it, who thought the leader's retorts and philosophical pronouncements were bunk (many of them were) and just wouldn't give in. At the Tuesday Special Evening following the weekend course, when his daughter introduced him as the person she was there to support, he got the loudest and longest applause and cheering of anyone that night. So, there's still some piss and vinegar left after all is finally said, and even those who buy in can exult in someone who bucks the Forum system.
landmark
There is plenty of valuable information to take away from Landmark's courses. However, the way in which that information is presented can be overly forceful and disrespectful of any variation to their strict points of view.
They have extracted their coursework from numerous sources and continue to revise the coursework and the way in which it is presented.
If you take nothing else away from The Forum (or whatever courses you participate in) it should be to stop focusing on yourself all the time and see what you can bring to the world to make it a better place.
36 years and counting
I first did EST in 1973, and eventually participated in the organization for about eight years. Went on to do the first Forum and then repeated it a second time about twenty years later.
My life has had it's ups and downs, divorce and illness and deaths of loved ones, through it all I have used many of the tools that I acquired in the Forum to cope with and come through the difficult times with a smoothness and sense of mastery that I know I would not have possessed otherwise.
30 years and trying not to count but can't help it
Hey,
LIfe surely has it's up and down's, and everything you've said I could've save and do say the same thing. I would just add that essentially it comes down to what you're willing to stand for and be accountable. That I believe is where the, "rubber meets the road" in life.
Used to agree, now I don't.
I'll be honest. I don't like the sales technique and I never have. It sets a lot of people, including the author, in mind of cults or scams. That being said, I have realized enormous benefits from the Forum and I'm not willing to throw that away because I have one quibble with their business model. I have invited people to learn more, and I warn them that there will be a sales presentation. So far, only one person has taken issue with that.
Having sat through Avon, Mary Kay, insurance, investment and multiple pyramid schemes (it's something of a military pastime), Landmark was the most low key "sales" pressure I've ever experienced. Ever been to a time-share presentation where you physically cannot leave? Yeah, it is nothing like that at all. People can and do leave if they aren't interested.
I'm secure enough in my ability to say "no" to something I don't want that I can't be threatened or hurt by someone offering me a product or service. Some people don't feel that way, and I imagine this creates a bigger problem for them than can be ascribed to a few hours at Landmark.
Why do people sit through this bs?
I know dozens of people who were abused in the 70's by est. I lol at them then because they were good people spending good money to be torn down by people who didn't know them or care about them. AND THEY SAT THERE AND TOOK IT! It was preposterous, feel good bs then and I believe it still is. They're all embarrassed by their gulibility and the ease with which they were parted from their hard earned money.
The entire object is to part you from your money and if they need to part you from your family and friends in order to get it that's what they'll do. Don't kid yourself into thinking this is anything but a con job for cash. These people don't know anything and they certainly don't care about YOU...except how far will you go to get the cash for the next class.
From the outside looking in
Years ago, I dated a woman who was heavily involved in Landmark. Based on the amount of time she spent at "homework parties" where it seemed that people spent lots of time on collages, and her platitudes pasted onto various surfaces, I was uncomfortable. However, she wanted me to attend an introductory session and I felt that I needed to at least check it out. It seemed to me that they'd planted "stooges" in the audience - the comments seemed contrived, formulaic, and groupie-like. For example, one comment was "how do you afford to offer these courses so cheaply when so much is given to participants?" I was creeped out, but there seemed to be a lot of emphasis on community, until my girlfriend got really sick with a bad case of the flu and then her Landmark community (who lived within a 2 mile radius) vanished. My girlfriend and I lived 1500 miles apart so I was Federal Expressing medication, canned soups and other liquids to her because she was too sick to get out of bed and the "community" bailed. It seemed to me that there was a lot of black and white thinking and grey areas were taboo.
Both parties are right...
The problem with est, and the Forum, and the Landmark Forum, is that it's a methodology meant to educe a subjective reaction that you could call "letting go" of all of the business we put ourselves and our very complex minds through. And the trouble with that, is that it's all meant to be accomplished in three days or so (Americans are always impatient for results).
In fact, est (I took the Training, long ago) is trying to do what really takes dedicated decades of striving, if one wants the results to last. The short form of the exercise (the Training) usually works to enlighten the trainee; but the results don't stick, because the whole process is done too quickly. And then you are back in your life again, with all of the same pressures and coping tactics that kept you there. When you're late and can't find a parking place, it gets harder and harder to just channel the overall perspective of an enlightened mind, or to expect other "non-enlightened" people to put up with your free behavior, when they are watching their watches over you.
The mismatch of est with our modern lives is not because est doesn't work, but because it tries to do something that directly contradicts our set cultural patterns and expectations -- like dancing on the sidewalk in front of a cop, and expecting not to be hauled downtown for it.
That's why est, er, the Forum, stresses the continuation aspects so strongly -- it's to keep you opening up, rather than closing back down, which is the natural progression. Our cultural selves are "set" to a particular worldview and balance of forces, and we keep going back to "who" we were before the Training, simply because that's what has always worked for us. That the Training largely works as envisioned, is demonstrated by the various accolades it gets. That it doesn't work for everyone, or permanently, is evidenced by the various pans it gets.
In point of fact, you don't need the Training. I had my own enlightenment before I took the Training to get back to that place again. I didn't like the "inventing reality" aspect of it -- reality is reality, at least in the physical sense -- or of the after-market stages of the program, because they try to put a small army of different, undisciplined minds in charge of making reality match their own expectations; like "creating" someone on the other end of a phone call, who will commit to coming to the Training with you. Yes, this is an excercise in overcoming negative expectations, but it's also a spiritual vampire, eating your vitality until you've just got to get out and away from it all.
Think Before You Dial
I signed up for the Landmark forum two years ago. On one break, as the author describes, we were encouraged to call someone who had become estranged from us and own our responsibility for the damaged relationship. Only then would we be truly blameless and free. I tearfully dialed my alcoholic ex-boyfriend's number. I had not spoken to him since a disastrous breakup six months before. I'd had my number changed.
He was delighted to hear from me, that's for sure. And he still calls me to this day, wanting to catch up, discuss the last dream that I was in, insist that he's moved on and, in the next breath, confess that he will always love me. I don't pick up. I just wanted closure.
I took a chance on a "philosophy" of self-humiliation because I wanted desperately to make peace with the demons of my past.
But some things are probably better left uncovered.
Last Sentence Didn't Make Sense
Sorry-- Some things are probably better left in the dark, I should say.
landmark forum
I did EST back when it was still EST, and there were enough good things about it that I went on to do a "relationships" seminar after it had become The Forum. The "trainers" spent the entire morning of the second day convincing everyone in the group of about 400 that relationships cannot work. I was the only one who disagreed, and for this egregiousness, was publicly humiliated. We broke for lunch and several people told me they secrety agreed with me. After lunch the trainers went over the same material, concluding that "We all agreed, except (MY NAME, said very sarcastically, as if I was an idiot)" and then they went on to say, "Well, you're wrong. Relationships can work." In other words, that the whole group was idiots, but that I was right. But did they apologize to me or "acknowledge" (another one of their buzz words) me? Hah! I totally lost respect for the organization after that experience, and never went back.
an est by any other name
One small nit: est went through (to my knowledge) four name changes:
- est
- est, and educational corporation
- Werner Erhard & Assocates
- Landmark Education
The period around 1985 was when est was called Werner Erhard & Associates. The introductory seminar was called "The est Training" which became "The Forum" in 1985 and I think is now called "The Landmark Forum."
I traveled into est before I entering College in 1975. Via the est Training, I took most seminars and assisted for over eight years. From the Berkeley/Oakland office when it was first managed by Elaine Cronin, to the Maintenance Team at the Franklin House cleaning Werner's toilets and floors. I was even on est Staff for a short time in the early '80's in the Records Dept. For the main, it was eight years of my life lost that I've been coming to terms with.
-- Enric
I have to say I am very
I have to say I am very surprised at the authors take on the Forum and her presentation for Mother Earth News. I don't mind her opinion, we all have one and they certainly differ. However, as a person who "supervised" the Forum - I'm the one who sat in the tall chair at the back of the room - and having witnessed tens of thousands of people participate I am disappointed in her reporting.
It was my job (volunteer) to speak with people who were upset, disturbed, had issues with or were going though personal crisis, before, during, and after the Forum. The people who worked through the issues always (and I mean 100%) added some value to their lives. Usually in vastly greater amounts then the hours and money they invested. Independent post participation surveys confirm this. Those who chose to leave, and some did, though a surprisingly few, usually reflected the views of the author of this article.
It is hard to get into the Forum if you have issues about the process, as the author mentioned about the people who felt pressured. It was agreed that they should no longer participate. People have issues with many things and part of the design of the Forum is to bring issues to the surface so they can be investigated. You get to investigate them in a room full of stangers who strangely become very close in a remarkably short period of time. Notice the authors remarks on her tearful emotions upon returning on Tuesday. So basically I will state that the author missed out. That simple, she wasted her $500 and 42 hours. She missed the opportunity of being present (in the Zen sense) with people who were amazingly vunerable, actively looking at their own issues and investigating the choices we all make in our lives. Willing to do so amoung other people just like her.
It is my experience that there is a direct corrilation between a persons willingness to be vulnerable and their level of empathy. The Forum asks for, demands in a way that you look outside yourself and experience others in an empathetic fashion and that is where the gift lies. That is why there are other people in the room.
As to the nature of the "sales" conversation. No one is ever involved in the conversation unless they have been invited by someone who has completed the Forum. No one. If you believe that the person who is inviting you is wrong don't go, but there is some reason the are inviting you. I promise you they get no financial incentive to invite you, just the opportunity to share an experience they found helpful in their lives. Also, $500 divided by 42 hours equals $11.90 an hour. Pretty good deal. The "technology" of the dynamics of the Forum are used by top business consultants who bill at hundreds of dollars on hour, and businesses from all over the world at all levels happily pay for it.
The reason I read this publication is to experience different views, and I hope to experience reporters being open, looking at the world with a fresh view, engaged in possibility. This article is not that. Sure it expresses an opinion, but having personally experienced thousands of people in her perdicament, she made the small choice, the selfish choice, and she missed out big time!
Your Landmark Forum
Hello,
I've just read your article and found it amusing, but before I go on, I like to divulge that I've taken both the EST training in 1979 and the Forum in 2004. Also, in both cases I paid my own tuition without any financial help from family or friends. If I had to do it again, I would without hesitation. Regarding your comments on how you interpreted others experience in sharing was just that, your opinion and to what end did it justify? Secondly, congratulations for completing the program and what have you gotten out of participating from it. What was your motivation. To compare Landmark from EST. That has been done by others and to what? I think your point was that in time of economic slow down that this company is selling snake oil? am I wrong? Be honest, you expected more(pop) you recall the distinction, "Already always listening." Give it a shot, and listen! No harm done, who knows maybe!!!
Cordially,
Jim
is it legal?
You have to have a PhD and a license to practice Psycotherapy. How do these brainwashers get away with it? You can tell all the planted comments, they are taken right from the web site's retoric. Take them down!
dr. gilmore, which comments are you referring to?
New Media Editor, Mother Jones
http://www.motherjones.com/authors/laura-mcclure
legal?
I am a Licensed Psychologist and I have been providing psychotherapy, workshops, and corporate seminares for 40 years - both before and after participating in est and the Landmark Forum (and a number of other of their courses). Landmark makes it quite clear that it is NOT psychotherapy. In fact, they tell you that if you need that kind of help, get a therapist, not a Forum Leader. It is definitely NOT a cult, NOT a religion, and no one is PRESSURED into taking the course. If you go into a car showroom, you should expect someone to ask you if you are interested in buying a car. And if you go to an Introduction to the Forum, don't be surprised if someone asks if you'd like to do The Forum! You're probably at the Intro at the invitation of someone you know who wants to share the value they experienced with you. And why is the fact that Landmark is a business so upsetting to some people? I found Laura's article to be biased and misleading, as are all of the negative comments above. While some people clearly have had negative experiences in The Forum, there is overwhelming evidence that the vast majority of people who attend get more than their time and money's worth. That was certainly true for me!!
I find it somewhat
I find it somewhat suspicious that you have a PhD and a license to practice "Psycotherapy". If I were to give you benefit of the doubt about your misspelling (It's just a random oopsie), it evaporated at "retoric".
planted comments
I completed The Forum in 2007 and have done other Landmark courses. I'm not speaking as a representative of Landmark, just as myself. I'm an English teacher with summer time on his hands, and I got a lot out of The Forum.
On what basis would you argue that the positive comments are planted? Promised results matching reported results is not a red flag, it's a good sign!
As for the psychology thing--consider what Dr. Raymond D. Fowler said (I'm checking the facts before I type them). His experience includes 30 years as a psychology professor and being the CEO of the APA. At Landmark's request, he took The Forum as a regular participant in 1999, reviewed Landmark's screening practices (which includes warning off people who might be better off with therapy), etc. He wrote an independent report of his own judgment, and among many things he made clear is that The Forum is not psychology, not a cult, etc. The leaders aren't psychologists, and they don't need to be.
I read Fowler's article while I participated in a leadership training course. I find it useful because he's totally unaffiliated with Landmark and has his own prestigious career in psychology, so more people will listen to him with an open mind.
Integrity
I attended the Forum in 2004. There were a couple of things that just didn't add up. First of all, the premise of the Forum is that only in our minds is there sometheing wrong that needs to be fixed. There is nothing wrong with you, for example. However, their premise is also such that that anyone who has not been exposed to the Landmark "technology" needs it, thus they need to be fixed. And we are the ones to bring the word the truth! So start recruiting! That is a glaring internal conflict. What I experienced at the forum was the same sort of cognative dissonance I experienced before leaving mormonism. I will say that the Landmark cult helped me leave the mormon cult.
My second are of concern had to do with the fact that the they didn't practice what they preached about integrity. They were all about everyone keeping their word. People who arrived late were used as examples of lack of integrity. However, later after I specifically asked to be removed from their call list so that I would no longer be invited to more classes, they said they would stop calling but did not keep their word. Not until I moved out of state and got a new phone number did the calls stop. They also phone harassed a cousin of mine who went to one of thier sales meetings. The organization is CREEPY. But it did help me leave mormonism.
I've participated with
I've participated with Landmark Education in a variety of courses for over a decade. It's a company which is constantly looking to have their courses be of the highest quality and affordabilty. I'm also a licenses psychologist. Landmark is definately not therapy. Its courses provide opportunities, due to both design and content, for powerful, life altering breakthroughs in a short amount of time. I don't know of other companies which do this reliably, but they may exist. I do know it does NOT currently exist in the area of therapy. Therapy, by design, is slower and I would say, less powerful.
Any company which can offer these kind of results will be controversial. It has to be! If it were an ordinary seminar, it would not produce the same results. For healthy, open minded people, willing to be vulnerable about what is satisfying or disatisfying in our lives, the benefits are huge. But you do need to be open. It's not for everyone. And it's also not a cult. Cult experts have studied the courses. This is published fact. But, looking in, as someone cynical of the methodology and / or results, it would definately look "wrong". The Landmark Forum is no ordinary weekend, and for the majority of its participants, they're very satisfied with the extraordinary results. Again, published fact. In the end, if it works, isn't that a good thing? People resolve conflicts with loved ones, co workers, lifestyle choices, even old and damaging traumas. I say Landmark's courses are a healthy option for having fulfilling lives. And who among us thinks that's a bad thing?
Interesting
This sounds like corporatized religion. Heaps of group-think and forced belonging delivered aggressively to those who cannot or are unable to do it for themselves. It serves a purpose I suppose - for those who want/need it.
Interesting article, and comments.
There are two kinds of people
Logically, the idea that this "technology" (Scientology, much?!) can help everyone is absurd. I attended The Forum in the mid-1980s and was appalled by the treatment of the participants, the coercive tactics, and the expense. Any organization that promotes a lack of individuality by enforced "breaks," specified and approved jargon and demands for more money sounds like a cult, even if the adherents claim otherwise.
(info on cults: http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html)
This organization takes advantage of the human desire for fulfillment and preys upon the incredulity of the lazy seeking a "quick fix." It's very reminiscent of AA, Scientology and various extreme fundamentalist religions. It's completely beyond me why any sane person with an ounce of self-esteem would fall for this scam. I feel very sorry for the people who continue their affiliation--they may be even "richer" had they never thrown their money away!
