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Thoughts on Jim Cramer vs. Jon Stewart
There is a serious feud ongoing between Jon Stewart and Jim Cramer.
Stewart, as you probably know, used the Daily Show and other venues to slam the financial TV networks in general and CNBC specifically. The Mad Money host, who has become famous by instructing viewers to buy and sell individual stocks in a carnival barker style, came under especially harsh criticism.
Cramer then did a media tour to defend himself; you can see a video summarizing that here and read a column Cramer wrote on the subject here. Stewart responded; you can see that here. Cramer's primary argument in all this is that Stewart is taking video snippets out of context to make him look bad -- something a comedian or a blogger could do to any pundit. Cramer points out that Stewart never mentions the fact that he urged people to withdraw their money from the stock market October 2008, when the Dow was still around 10,000. He did do that, it's true.
Cramer does deserve credit for (1) ending his market boosterism and Wall Street CEO ego-stroking before the rest of TV's financial news community did the same, and (2) apologizing for some horrifically bad stock picks (he endorsed Wachovia stock after then-CEO Bob Steel came on Mad Money and pimped the bank). But ultimately that's all tangential: What Cramer really needs to do is stop making ordinary people believe they can game the stock market on a day to day basis. A massive majority of the buying and selling done on Wall Street is done by banks and massive institutions with all the resources in the world at their disposal. Joe Sixpack and his 1,000 shares of Coca-Cola are just grease for the gears. If Joe invests his money long-term in low-risk index funds and mutual funds, he might ride out the market's fluctuations. If he tries to move that Coca-Cola at just the right time, and buy Johnson & Johnson at just the right time, he's going to get eaten alive.
Jim Cramer can defend himself all he wants. But his modus operandi is still problematic: he sends amateurs hurtling into a professional's game.
Jon Stewart
I saw the bit where The Daily Show montaged the BS that CNBC financial analysts were spouting, followed by facts about how off they were. I loved every minute of it. Journalism is admirable, but people who pretend to be experts while on the payroll of special interest corps need to be taken down several pegs.
Cramer vs Stewart
This actually started with Rick Santelli being a blowhard. Stewart pointed it out and then he unmasked Cramer in the process. Those guys are shills for their corporations. Why does anybody even listen to them???
"Every human life is of incalculable value"
~William Ayers
"Joe Sixpack and his 1,000
"Joe Sixpack and his 1,000 shares of Coca Cola are just grease for the gears. If Joe invests his money long-term in low-risk index funds and mutual funds, he might ride out the market's fluctuations. If he tries to move that Coca Cola at just the right time, and buy Johnson and Johnson at just the right time, he's going to get eaten alive."
That's not at all what Mad Money is about. Cramer's not trying to get people into the day trading game. His show, at its core, is about addressing the information gap between the 'amateurs' and the 'professionals'. Mad Money accepts that 'amateurs' will invest in the stock market (they did long before CNBC even existed), and endeavors to educate them as much as possible about the market.
Disclaimers abound on the show. Cramer is a market enthusiast, and that's infectious., but the last thing he can be accused of is recklessness. He spends as much time discouraging people from investing, if they don't have the commitment to research their investments, as he does boosting stocks.
It'd be nice if a column like yours or the Daily Show cited those clips. They are just as easy to find on Mad Money as the inaccurate picks.
Uhhh...B.S. Cramer and
Uhhh...B.S.
Cramer and Santelli are STOCK TOUTS. No more, no less.
To insinuate that they are doing their *viewers* a service is disingenuous at best.
as bugs bunny would say
as bugs bunny would say "what a maroon"
Jim Cramer is an
tagged as:- solution
Jim Cramer is an entertainer, plain and simple. Mad Money is just that- for people who are mad about money. Why do you think the set of his show looks like a carnival? Because the man is a clown. :) If Cramer told you to buy big shoes, squeeky noses, and snow-cone colored wigs, you would, and that's probably where your precious money belongs- in the circus
I've watched Cramer's show a
I've watched Cramer's show a few times as I've wanted to learn more about the stock market. Frankly, I thought he was an asshole so I changed the channel. If his viewers are using him as their sole source of information in educating themselves about the stock market and making bad investments about what they're being told, then that's their problem. Stewart probably realizes how much of an annoying know-it-all Cramer is and looked for an opportunity to make fun of him.
Unfortunately, there are
Unfortunately, there are *many* people (my Repug relatives for instance...) who believe that the man on the TV is there to help them get rich too.
Its all part of making sure they keep pulling in grist for the money mill.
The sad fact is that the individual investor is outnumbered and outgunned by market markers and hedge funds these days and stooges like Cramer help to perpetuate the myth that we can all be investor class like that frat-baby on the e-trade commercials.
Cramer vs Stewart
I think most people in the media miss the point of Jon Stewart's slamming CNBC. These are suppose to be the experts and they dropped the ball. Now Cramer and CNBC are back peddling trying to blame him for exposing their lack of due diligence.
I find Stewart's line of
I find Stewart's line of attack really distasteful.
What started this feud was Cramer's rant against Obama's recent economic policies.
Stewart's response was...what, showing that Cramer is really bad at picking stocks? The fact that Cramer made some bad picks is irrelevant to what he said about the administration. If you want to draw some connection between his Bear Stearns advice and his competency to give a general opinion on the economy, fine, that still wouldn't address the substance of his arguments and that's not what's being done here. It's simply, "Hey, this clown was wrong on Bear Stearns!"
It's like the Republicans saying "Oh, Obama thinks Bush was wrong on Iraq? Hey, look over here at Reverend Wright!"
Stewart is A COMEDIAN
He isn't duty-bound to give anyone a fair shake, just to make people laugh.
The fact that he's excoriated a blowhard stock tout with such ease is no fault of Stewart's
"It's like the Republicans
"It's like the Republicans saying 'Oh, Obama thinks Bush was wrong on Iraq? Hey, look over here at Reverend Wright!'"
Ummm... the Republicans DID do that. And it's not the same. The disingenuous post-Reagan culture that encourages people to believe that their money is going to waste if not invested, and to believe they can get rich by investing if they follow the right guru, when in fact they know full well it's not true but want those funds in play for their OWN enrichment, is fostered and nurtured by the Cramers of this world. Their influence had a lot to do with the pain so many have felt in the past six months. Like many of his set, Cramer has made pat criticisms of Obama to deflect blame from himself and his orbit. Stewart called him on it. He was right to do so.
The Republicans doing what you describe above equates having a thin relationship to a radical to getting thousands of soldiers killed in a phony war. Hardly a reasonable comparison, but no doubt one they'd make.
RE
Let us look at Rev Wright Decorated war hero, Navy Corpsman, (unarmed navy battlefield medic) nurse to LBJ for heart bypass, Hero I think so why do chickenhawk rethugs denigrate real heroes. Priceless no heartless yes!!!
Cramer vs Stewart
Jon Stewart never criticized Cramer on his rant against Obama, that was Rick Santelli. No Jon Stewart's comments were that Cramer recommended buying Bear Sterns 10 days before it's collapse when the stock went from around $60 to $2. OOPS!
I think you really miss the
I think you really miss the point. Talk about cherry-picking, Jon Stewart gave several examples of CNBC's being asleep at the wheel on financial matters. Bear Stearns was one of those examples. The reason why this was picked up by Cramer and CNBC, i think, is because its the only example that they thought they could find a halfway acceptqable response to. The response was still lame. Cramer's words were Cramer's words.
But the larger point really isn't about picking bad individual stocks. The larger point wasn't even all about Cramer. The charge was against the network that claims to be knowledgeable, but apparently knows waaay less than they pretend. Either that or they disingenuously advance information that is in favor of big business AT THE EXPENSE of those on Main Street.
Pay attention!! What started
Pay attention!! What started "this" was Santelli's rant against bailing out homeowners (guess Wall Streeters wants all our tax money for themselves), Jon's reply sweep up several self serving "investment advisor" types in its folds - and deservedly so.
What's the matter Santelli and Cramer?
Your "Mad Money Machine" not hitting you and fitting you like it used to?
What's that? You've never heard of Peter Schiff or Dean Baker or Paul Krugman or...
It's Comedy!
The fact that this is being discussed more accurately shows the main point and problem here: In many ways, a show that runs 22 minutes 4 days/week is making more astute statements than much of the rest of television. They are on COMEDY CENTRAL. The Daily Show (from what I've watched) has never claimed to have the answers - In their words they are 'turd miners'. Why in the world should CNBC or others care what a comedian says? Probably because the scripted show makes legitimate and thoughtful statements rather than stream of consciousness exclamations and the unsightly mixxing of entertainment and news the shows they rankle make.
Jon Stewart and Colbert have
Jon Stewart and Colbert have all the news I need. They are the best thing on TV (or internet) along with King of the Hill. Their best quality is that they treat smart people like smart people, and talking heads like cramer, rush, and dobbs as the jokes they are.
As the red button on Colbert would say: "F*** 'EM!"
Accountability
Cramer isn't alone. Few stock "analysts" are ever held accountable, in public, for their statements. I don't follow stocks, in general, but I do follow Apple, Inc. (AAPL) An "amateur" analyst/commentator did a comparison between the predictions of a bunch of "pros" for Apple's revenue, earnings, etc., and reality. Most were far off the mark. (He included his own predictions, which turned out to be the best.) Some of them have consistently been off the mark in the same direction (usually negative) for years, yet they continue to make predictions (and be paid well for them) and, worse, people still listen to them. As a result, a negative "analysis" from one of these failures (that's all one can call them) can cause a sudden drop in the stock price. This is so predictable that one has to wonder if there might not be some intent involved: are the analysts trying to manipulate the price? Even a short-term drop could be useful if their clients have major short positions.
Response on deliberate bad news
As we found out later, Cramer floated bad news out there so he could short the stock when he knew the 'bad news' would cause a negative reaction. Apple was the stock he gave in his example.
The 'game' is corrupt and fixed. If you want to make money in the stock market, either go with a mutual fund or ETF where the pros know the fix is in. You cannot beat the market manipulators.
Cramer gets no praise here
tagged as:- solution
Go to the video of Cramer's response and you'll see him make the claim that he was telling people to "sell everything" in October 2008. Um, kids, Bear and Lehman were long gone by then, and AIG had been government property for weeks after nearly going under. In other words, the doors had been blown off the barn and many horses were run and gone. So tell me again: Cramer deserves credit for seeing this in October and finally putting up the sell sign? You 24-hour journalists are going to have to do a better job of handling short-term memory loss or clowns like Cramer will continue to beset us for years to come.
Your comment is RIGHT ON!
Your comment is RIGHT ON!
A Second Bubble
No doubt Jim Cramer's brand of investment "advice" helped fuel a second economic bubble--that of the stock market. Fueled by paper profits not linked to increases in production, people all over the world bought into the stock market while looking for get-rich schemes. Cramer and his kind are nearly as bad a Madoff and company, and my hat goes off to Jon Stewart for exposing this fraud.
Jim Cramer
Cramer said on "Early Joe" yesterday that he DOES NOT read any emails sent to him.....yet CNBC has a comment trailer that says "email Cramer...he reads them all".......seems like someone is lying here.
Going on for years
As an 18 year old out of high school, I was offered a job with Merrill Lynch because of a few stock picks I made that turned out real well. A friend told his broker who called me with the offer. I was fricking out of high school and I got the tips from Money magazine. No genius here.
This was the mentality going back to the 70s and pervaded the industry especially after the Reagan voodoo economics nonsense (George Bush Sr. had it spot on). Jim Cramer is a Gordon Gecko without the snappy suits. He deserves nothing but a swift kick in the a** as he leaves the studio for good.
Why does it take a comedy show for us to have this discussion?
I agree with Jeff, why does it take Jon Stewart/Daily Show for us to finally expose another media outlet as incompetent? Again? Why is he our only voice of reason? I love him, but please give him a little help, with so much incompetence i am afraid him and his staff are not getting enough sleep. Maybe another voice of reason
But haven't we had this discussion before, with another daily show posse, Stephen Colbert when he was invited to the White House Press correspondent dinner? He said what the press didn't/couldn't say the last 4 years, to Bush's face no less. And before that it was Jon Stewart Cross Fire CNN Tucker Carlson fight. To point out that these pundits/reporters on television are nothing but being spinned by Washington and are basically talking heads for whoever they are talking to. Why does it take comedian to show us how screwed up our media/government is? shouldn't that really be the job of the media and the government? instead of lying to us or sugar coat it?
Cramer is just a drop in the ocean of the muck that is in our media right now. there are so many turds out there for Jon stewart to pick its embarassing to the media, i hope. but they keep defending it on TV instead of trying to do better.
Jon stewart is not the first to criticize CNBC, Howard Kurtz from Wash Post wrote an extensive blog last year during the meltdown about it and basically made the same point without being funny. But that absolutely got no attention because long form journalism that no one pays attention to anymore, only stories with a twisted angle ever gets played.
I for one is glad Jon Stewart and his guys are turd mining, at least someone is.
NBC, CNBC, MSNBC, WTFNBC
"why does it take Jon Stewart/Daily Show for us to finally expose another media outlet as incompetent? Again? Why is he our only voice of reason?"
Market consolidation. Another fine feature of laissez-faire, neoliberal state capitalism.
We only break up the "bad" monopolies.
To anyone posting to
To anyone posting to defend what it is Cramer himself actually does on his program: You're quite clearly missing the point. Stewart essentially used Cramer as a human sacrifice to be the symbolic stand-in not only for CNBC, but, far larger, to frame his attack on the 'mysterious,' shadow world practices of many (most?) of the Wall Street fraud gang, who exploit their investors, their clients and the country's financial capital as a whole in order to turn paper money into theoretical money and turn a healthy capitalist economy into a broken, plunging, unforgiving creditor; coming after its debtors, and eating the poorest and most vulnerable first. "The losers" as Santelli called them. I'd have preferred Santelli to be the one to have to sit their and be crucified for the Wall Street defrauders' sins, but Cramer, as oddly vulnerable and almost likable as he - in rare, uncomfortable circumstances - can seem.
At times, I really did feel for Cramer having to be eviscerated for all this, to serve Stewart's larger point, but a quick reminder of the succession of clips Stewart showed at the beginning of the interview did a great deal to nullify that.
Let;s see how Scarborough spins this. No longer can he say Stewart's just some mindless meanie joke teller who is making some big cause out of Cramer's simple human error of making a few poor predictions. Stewart made it very very clear, this was about much bigger fish; about much more than that.
In my opinion, Stewart's been a true genius now for years; today's great satirist, the voice of the clear, dispassionate judge, armed with the video of your hypocrisies and your contradictions and, hence, your lack of credibility.
But tonight, he even found a new voice. Scar' and the cable news crew have had no reason to fear anything like this: Even Jon Stewart has pulled back, reserved his most stinging bite when a guest sits across the table from him. He seems a bit afraid of Bill O'Rielly, and others he seems to have (a bit too much?) sympathy for when staring into their eyes, and he lets them mostly off the hook. Tonight, he called bullshit on himself and on all the talk shows tradition of scolding someone from afar, then sitting across from them and killing them with kindness.
This is clearly what Cramer expected, and who could blame him. But again, Stewart wasn't even seeing Cramer there as he dropped each blow on him. He saw the epic level of greed that has destroyed the American tendency to avert their accusing eyes.
Hopefully this helps destroy that greed before it destroys more lives. Probably unfairly (at least on some level), he may have just destroyed Cramer's career.
Collection of Jon Stewart vs. Jim Cramer videos
I made a collection of all of the Jon Stewart vs. Jim Cramer videos so you can easily view them all on one place. Check it out:
http://entrepreneurialactivism.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/stock-market-manipulation-jim-cramer-vs-jon-stewart/
Kudos to Mr. Stein for
Kudos to Mr. Stein for writing up a great summary.
If you have not watched the outtakes from the March 12th Daily Show, do it now. It is much better than what was aired. Comedy Central editing did not do the interview justice.
Mr. Stewart is not scared. He is too smart to play the game. The other pundits and blowhards paint themselves into a corner; they don't need Jon Stewart to point out their massive failings as "journalists". Youtube is full of the evidence.
stewart vs cramer
I think that the most important thing that Jon Stewart did in the Cramer interview was tell the truth about 401ks. These are designed by Wall Street to take the working man's money, drive up the stock market, sell their shares, make a million and leave us holding the bag. Jon said it right. We hear leave your money in the market; invest your raise; be long term; while the big investors sell short. This is just another way for the rich to get richer. No one cares about the working man.
CNBC vs Other News Outlets
Te difference between CNBC (Cramer) and other
news outlets is that other outlets deal with current news
events, where as CNBC with stock market and
economics deals with future and future
expectations
Its like saying other outlets should have predicted
9/11 coming ...
Everyone making and listening to financial news
should know folks there are just making a prediction and
one can never be sure ... Everyone has to do their own homework
before putting their own money ...
9/11, predicted?
If you have read anything on 9/11, there was ample warning signs that were ignored - Bush ignored security briefing right before about this, there was a threat in arabic that was not translated after a week later that alluded to 9/11, so this 9/11 could've been predicted.
THE "INSIDER" SECRET @ CNBC
While there have been many illuminating revelations to emerge from the latest dust-up over the media coverage of Wall Street, I am a bit curious why the MOST egregious offense of the Finance Shows has NOT gotten any airplay.
When you have literally millions of viewers it is obvious that anything you broadcast can have a POSITIVE or NEGATIVE effect on the market. I read in another article a while back that the Big-Whigs at CNBC get a list of "guests" to be interviewed on the show for that day. They then hedge their stock "bets" accordingly to account for the corresponding market "bump" or "dip" in the related stocks that are discussed.
This smacks of "Insider Trading" to the "N"th degree! Why Jon Stewart didn't reveal this obvious criminal activity is a mystery to me. Maybe no one is aware of it, but it is just ANOTHER example of how the Wall Street elite feed at the trough of insider info while the clueless Joe-Sixpacks that kneel at the feet of the Jim Cramer's of the world get hosed from behind without an ounce of lubrication!
SAVE AMERICA..................................SHOOT A CEO!
Cramer Bear Stearns
Do you remember Bear Stearns? Cramer advice on Bears is tracked at:
http://www.gainerstoday.com/cramer-bear-stearns-Stock-Market-Picks
One of my grandpas was a
One of my grandpas was a Nebraska farm boy who worked his way through Yale to become an economics professor. Over and over he said, "People go into the stock market with no idea what they're buying. So don't buy a single stock unless you can tell me in a sentence or two why." This was years before the Internet and 24/7 financial news.
My goddess, have we as a nation become that ridiculous about our hard-earned money? I'm as trusting (or naive) as the next person, but I contend that anyone who bases a personal portfolio on the recommendations of a guy on TV yelling at the top of his lungs probably deserves to lose a little in order to learn an object lesson. The barker at the carnival selling snake oil, INDEED.
Stewart vs Kramer
The fact that these stock market analysts can even get an audience proves the main point which is that the average person is so greedy and hungry for more goodies than they need or can afford, they will do anything including believe a stupid rodeo clown who acts like a carnival barker. I only know this after seeing him on Jon Stewart's show after the controversy and I thought he seemed drunk and unintelligible. I can barely believe anyone would trust him for financial advice or anyone else as far as that goes. If those "esperts" were really experts, they'd be rich from their own investments right? The fact is that its money that makes money and for those with none it takes hard work to just get by - let alone throw it at a system that will swallow it in a New York minute and not make a dimple in the scheme of things. To do that on some fool's advice is sillier than getting caught in the money drop con game. The whole media set up is just a sponser sponsored con game to pry money from the fingers of the brain dead.
Scam
tagged as:- solution
Why did the concept of a corporation change from it's original intent?
It's original purpose was the public underwriting of businesses that take on extra risk in order to aid the government during large public projects or crises. The partnership was dissolved once the project or crises was over.
If we went back to the original intent, then all of the traders and investors might have to actually do something useful for their survival.
Good post!!
JS really took John Cramer to task and rightfully so. Unfortunately, so much of corporate America, especially in the financial sector, has become a giant money grab by unethical executives financed off the backs of working America’s pensions and 401k’s. Financial reporting must begin to be more honest and frankly there are lots more executives who should end up in jail. On the other hand, one shouldn’t go too far with this and suggest that “money = work” and that anyone who makes money with intelligently leveraged investments is somehow dishonest. If people only made money through working and not through taking business risks then no entrepreneurs would exist and our economy would be a tiny fraction of what it is today. Yes, manipulating the markets in your advantage using your special status as a financial reporter is indeed highly unethical as is any situation where executives risk the financial health of a century-old corporation on absurdly risky derivative bets or through highly risky short term business maneuvers. And yes, work and contribution to society are important. But investments where risk is INTELLIGENTLY and CONSERVATIVELY matched against reward, especially when you are risking your own money and not someone else’s, is a perfectly valid, ethical, and intelligent way to acquire wealth. In fact this is how most wealth is actually acquired. If one never used any leverage in investments, then the real estate market wouldn’t exist, the futures market wouldn’t exist, and the FOREX market wouldn’t exist. So let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are plenty of us who increase our wealth by assuming moderate risk with our own money for well-above-average returns. The key is to understand that everyone guesses wrong sometimes and to therefore manage risk so that one bad call won’t wipe you out, and certainly won’t cause significant harm to people who depend on you.
Motherjones
I thanks all of you for your useful comments on this site.