This more than anything points to our need to create a Core (world power's old and rising) wide system to process detainess. One Europe, the US, China, Russia, Brazil, India and others can agree to and view as legitimate.

While I disagree with the administration's poition on torture and think that their defense of that policy and those tactics is detrimental to our national character, not too mention to the way we are viewed in teh world, the debate reflects the very type of conflict we are fighting. In short, we are fighting a global insurgency that wants to overthrow the established world system and replace it with a strong Caliphate that harkens back to the time of the prophet Muhammad. As such, the members of the organization have no allegiance to any country, wear no uniforms and follow no rules of war. The failure of the current administration has been to refuse to negotiate with out allies and other powers on what is accetable under international norms when dealing with this new type of enemy. Normally, under international norms a combatant not wearing a uniform, carrying his weapons out openly or following the rules of war did not have the rights that regular army troops would have if captured. Now we have to come up with a whole new process, the longer this remains solely an American rule set, or an American problem, the more our legitimacy will be eroded and the more the insurgency will be able to achieve its objectives. Mainly, delegitimizing the US's and the West's role as leaders in this world. That opens up a space where they can begin to create pockets o resistance against what will come to be perceived as teh illegitimate world order, and from whence they can attack it.
The problem goes beyond torture, but reflects our lack of udnerstanding of the struggle we are currently engaged in. We are not fighting a war on terror, terror is a tactic used by insurgents to achieve a specific political aim. As such, we are fighting an insurgency on a global scale, the sooner we understand this, the faster we will be able to establish a program that has a decent chance of defeating it.

If this was another country doing this we would be appalled.It's a case of do as I say not as I do J.G.

Get over the asinine comments about insurgents and terroists. Bring all the troops home, protect and defend our borders...start taking care of the needy survivors of Katrina, the poor and the aged in this country. From Bush to Bush we have gone from 5 trillion to almost 10 trillion in debt to China and other countries whom we were fighting just a few short years ago.

Dear Sir/madam

Louise Arbour should be congratulated for her willingness to speak up(as does the House of Lords for reaffirming the traditional ban on evidence obtained through torture) Funny how an America which engaged in (jusitifiable) criticism of French torture in Algeria and British "deep interrogation" of IRA suspects in NI can defend what it professed to find so morally repugnant!

When USA will be bankrupt,the world will at peace...
That day is closer than we think.

Please do not get carried away by these arm chair scholars i.e. Robert Spencer, he claims he has read a lot of books on Islam, so now he is a Scholar, where has gone rigorous academic learning, mastering languages, publishing in reputable journals etc. Now you just read books and open a web site, and if you bash Muslims you are a scholar of Islam and you get to go to TV shows and many other idiots propagate your half baked theories). The other trend is these people hide behind euphemisms, we don’t hate Muslims we just hate fundamentalist, let me enlighten you majority of Muslims are fundamentalists. Seculars are at the helm of power and are marginal in Muslim societies.

In case if you have missed this documentary.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194&q=loose+change

Let me tell you, a simple thing you can not defeat this insurgency. Because you do not have will to go to the same length these people would. And why you want to fight them? Just get out of their lands, let them establish their own polity and stop supporting corrupt regiems and you would defeat them. Simple huh?

I live in Malaysia, and in 1980 after the invasion of Afghanistan, there was a clear shift of the Muslim mindset toward 'jihad'. Muslims who never previously professed a fanatical zealotry, were now everywhere. There were moves to include Islam in every facet of public and private life. The initial calls and moves toward extremism were issued from grassroots preachers in small towns, much like the bible-belt towns of the US. It was troubling enough that many Malaysian-Chinese emigrated due to feelings of insecurity and fears of race/religious persecution. It has been the calming velvet-clad iron fist policies of our democratically elected Parliamentary Government that controlled the situation. It goes like this: If you can't play with the other kids we put you in a jungle camp for 2 years. After those 2 years are up, you are asked again if you want to behave and not antagonise your neighbours, if not, then back in you go. It is called the Internal Security Act (ISA) and is a lot older than the US Patriot Act, and was initially designed by the British for use against Malaysia's 12 year fight against a home-grown Communist insurgency (1948-1960).

All Malaysians are now very aware that we live in a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-religious society that could degenerate into violence and chaos if the wrong people are allowed to stir passions and incite hatred and division.

There was no need for torture. Their complete removal from society removed the incitement, and the Goverment continued putting forth a much more liberal interpretation of Islam called Islam Hadhari. Malaysia today is a shining example of how different peoples can live together, and how the economic pie can be shared to provide a piece for all without rancour and acrimony.

The architect of this admirable state of being is none other than Dr. Mahathir Mohamad, Prime Minister (1981-2003) Ask George to give him a call!