Regarding the comment you highlighted: ~ I, personally, am not anti-gay BUT...if one owns a small business then one's views count. If you can't stand flaming queens then why would you employ one? Laws aren't going to force you to hire one, your personal tastes will sort out who gets the job. My point in general is that, as OWNER of a business, who the [deleted] is going to tell me how to run it? ~

This is the same exact argument some would make about hiring or working with racial minorities and women. Yet that is a totally rejected argument and an illegal selection criteria for hiring employees.

Why in the world would it be acceptable to discriminate against the GLBT community by denying them employment or housing?

How is discrimination against the GLBT community any one iota different than discrimination based on race or gender?

I still think, and I have seen absolutely nothing to change my mind, that those who hate so intensely like that are operating from some base of fear. What are they so afraid of? I just don't understand it.

Don't knock Lydon LaRouche, at least he went to prison for what he believes. His supporters are big in the Democratic party in some parts. The Gay issues are just distractions from the real issue of the monopolies controlling America. Workers of America unite.

Cameron, thanks for the post. I was engaged in some of the back and forth from which those comments came. There is a degree of ignorance and fear regarding GLBT issues that pervades even the seemingly most liberal venues, but I also feel that we have many supporters. It's confusing that an oppressed part of society like women [and, on a differant conversation, blacks] can show such intolerance towards GLBT people.
Tim, it's a big country with lots of issues to tackle. I agree that monopolistic corporations are probably the biggest concern for democracy, but as a gay American, I also understand that protection against discrimination is part of our cultural and political evolution.

GLBT never had a Cracker's whip cracked on them like my people. GLBT issues make a mockery of the Black Holocaust where we lost 8million people. When racism is conquered then the lives of all these groups may improve. The GLBT issues are only a distraction from the real issue of racism in America. I know that February is over, but I feel that this point needs to be made.

Tim - suggesting that it is laudable to be imprisoned for your beliefs is ludicrous. It is only boast-worthy when that belief is broadly (or in retrospect) deemed just or virtuous. You might want to check your history - Hitler, among others, was also jailed for his beliefs. Now if you want to put Lyndon and Adolph in the same bucket, I won't object.

Tyrone - I'm afraid the only point you've illustrated is just how absurd it is to try and differentiate discrimination based on race vs discrimination based on sexual orientation.

I support your struggle Tyrone. It would be nice if you would support mine too.

I second Cameron's comment. Why the hate? Honestly, why?

This is interesting because, traditionally, the women's movement has been the only identity movement to go out of its way to fight for other social movements, too. The above-described tactics, however, mirror those of the First Wave, when women fighting for suffrage exploited people's fear of racial equality to meet their feminist goals.

Tyronne, those "cracker's" you speak of set you free. Plenty of LGBT have had things such as that happen to them. This "Cracker" never owned a slave and I am so sick of this song and dance. When African American's clean up their black on black crime, make their children into something and support the inner-city when they get out then we will talk about it. Another thing you need to do some research on, your brother's in Africa were the dealer's the people in this country were only the buyer's. All groups of people are discriminated against, I was because I was poor and gay. Walk in my shoes, do you think Martin Luther King Jr. would be happy about your communities hatred for their own? I never hear about a "cracker" going into your neighborhood and committing a drive by, never hear about that now do you?

Shannon, why the hate?

There is no hate here. I have tons of black friends and they all agree with me. I live in Birmingham, AL and no matter how hard we try to rectify what happened in the sixties it still haunts us. More crime against black people happen by black people period. I am tired of the slave thing, tired of the civil rights thing, and I am definitely tired of black people using the N word in rap and other forms of entertainment.

What is so sad is that people can hate and not realize it.

Shannon, you may not know this, but one of the trademarks of unconscious racism is that comment , "I have tons of black friends." It goes along with this sad one which you probably also have been known to say, "Look, I'm not racist. BUT there are black people, and then there are n-----s! Y'all know what I mean, right?"
Yes, in all ethnicities there are violent people, people who make poor choices, people who are unproductive. The problem is, you see this in black people more than you are able to see it in white people. And you use it to nullify the reality of bigotry. It is the white man's disease, that is, feeling internally very guilty about the legacy of poverty and reduced opportunities that our poor record of civil liberties has left black Americans with, and turning the discomfort of that guilt into anger and projecting it back at the victims.
Do I believe that black Americans are helpless at this stage because of the past? No, but I think that impoverished people everywhere always have a harder time breaking generational cycles and when you start at slavery, the climb is pretty steep. And there are people, whether you choose to see it or not, who like to give the latter a shake whenever they can.

Look man I am Irish my people were enslaved for centuries, not just a few years. Do not start on me about the plight of the black man. When my people came to this God Forsaken country they had to pick which side of the Civil War they wanted to be on, not even knowing what a fucking Civil War was. My family made it, as well as other very poor Irish immigrants did. I do not project shit onto anyone, you do not know, do not know where I grew up and do not need to call me racist. I know the truth is painful.

Why are people not calling Tyronne out on using cracker, is that not just a discriminating?

I and countless others have called Tyrone out on other posts for his ignorance because absolutely bigotry exists in all communities.
However, historically speaking, I suspect your Irish [I'm a little Mic myself, Shannon] ancestors were no strangers to civil wars. Feuds and battles are an intricate part of Great Britian's history. Plus, it was easier for Irish [white] people to find a toehold in post-Colonial [white power holders] America than it would have been for black people. Every ethnicity has had travails, but anger, intolerance and insensitivity are hardly the balm to society's issues.

Boy, this sounds a lot like Iraq. When will you all stop buying into this state sponsored hate-the-other-guy? If we take the skin off, there is little difference. If we could be just a little kinder to each other or at least civil, maybe we could become, just Americans and make everyones life a little better!We might want to see how near we all are getting to being slaves to the rich and powerful. While we can't undo the evils of the past, we can move on trying not to do more evil in this world. Let's start today!

Dee, Second wave feminists booted lesbians out, too--hence the phrase "lavender menace."

I am truly sorry and contrite for using the word "Cracker" that caused so much hurt and I promise not to use it again. Pastor Bob has shown me the error of my ways and that I need to spend my time out on the street preaching the Gospel to the gang bangers.

Tyrone was our canary in the coal mine of bigotry.

Paul, my grandfather could not find a job because he was Irish, we were like Italians. He ran moonshine during prohibition to make ends meet. Once he did find a job he made 25 cents an hour to work in a coal mine under very dangerous conditions. We were Irish Catholics in the south there was NO place for us. There was this thing down here, maybe you have heard of it, called the KKK and unfortunately it took a long time for anyone that was not white and protestant to find anything here. Try growing up white and poor in a prodominatly rich white society, it is hard, extremely hard. Discrimination does not even begin to cover what you go through.

My sympathy is for all disenfranchised people.

First I would like to echo everything Paul Miller has said on this post and to thank Tyrone for his promise to stop using an offensive label.

I would also like to ask, on the topic of gay marriage, for an explanation on one point that members of the Republican Party have made. My wife and I have been married for close to 20 years. I would like to know how if a same sex couple marries, my own marriage will be weakened. I'm of the opinion that my marriage would likely survive the shock.

If that last sentence sounds like a note of sarcasm, I assure you that it was intended as an entire symphony. I can't imagine any reason that someone else's relationship, gay or straight, declared as a married couple or not, would have any effect on my life whatsoever, unless perhaps they were close friends and I got to be in the wedding party.

How has anyone sold this point to so many people? Why are people actually convinced by this ridiculous line of reasoning? Same sex marriage weakens the institution of marriage, how? By making it available to more people? By giving everyone the same right to publicly declare their love? Perhaps if I check my brain at the door, I might start to understand this ... but I doubt it.

Scott, I think there is this notion that 'freedoms' is like a pie that you may divide into only so many pieces and that if this group starts to get a slice, that group has to give up some of their share.
The protection of marriage thing attempts to exploit this idea to give conversative politicians that 'in' with people who think this way. Sadly, its at the cost of real freedom. My man-spouse and I are joined by civil union in Vermont, but we live in Virginia, a state of such mixed stripes that it became the first southern state, this week, to apologize for its slave past, while amending its state constitution, this past election, to further undermine equality for LBGT Virginians. This vote was closer than it was projected to be and than other such hyper reactive votes were in recent years in other states, evincing that the demographics of Virginia are changing.
A side note: We had eleven friends come with us to honor the ceremony. Of these eleven, ten were divided into five couples. All of the couples were heterosexual; in the three years since, two of these couples have developed serious relationship troubles and one of the couples is in the process of divorce. One of our 'coping with it' jokes, is that our gay civil union must have some how polluted these relationships, as our wise leaders to the right have suggested might happen.

Freedoms are like pie. Interesting analogy for their thought process. I'd have to find someone with that mindset and actually speak to them to ask if it holds up. I'm not willing to do that.

I think freedom is something easily given away and very hard to win back. It upsets me tremendously everytime we give up an inch.

This is good. The feminists have finally gone mainstream. Go girl. Look at the lady astronaut that threw it all away for true love. How romantic.

"I think freedom is something easily given away and very hard to win back" !!! M Scott, that is the greatest reason we must stop all of this differentiating of rights! The constitution is based on EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL. Sure it wasn't possible to get enough people to do it all at the time it was written, but, it was stated to point the way for the future. We the people failed to continue the process. We the people sat back and enjoyed the good times after the second world war. We gave our representative government over to the professional politicians.We the people must stop all of this name calling, hating and fear of being a little different. WE must stop being the "I society" and become the "BEST FOR ALL Society" ! WE ARE ALL BROTHERS and SISTERS, WE NEED TO BE CIVIL, then MAYBE WE COULD THINK KINDER TOWARD EACH OTHER! PEACE!

Ranselar VanDerpoel,

I mostly agree with you. We just have to make sure that our "BEST FOR ALL society" does not become a majority rule in which the majority gets to steamroll over the minority.

I doubt we disagree on this. I just want to be clear on that particular point. And, certainly, yes. We are all very closely related, both from a philosophical standpoint and from an actual genetics standpoint.

70-80,000 years ago, there were only 3-7,000 humans on the planet. Like the cheetahs, we are severly inbred. We are all very closely related.

As for PEACE, there are two ways to accomplish it. On most clear nights, we can see a peaceful world nearby. Let's strive toward world peace in such a way that there is still life on this planet.

Yes, Misanthropic Scott, we are very close on this and yes we must be just in our dealings with the minority. If we had followed through on the guidelines set out by the framers of our constitution, to achieve the best situation for as close to all as humanly possible,we wouldn't find ourselves in this mess. Maybe there is a lack of understanding in this country of what freedom really means. It doesn't mean that we can go around being abusive, it does mean we can do and say anything that doesn't harm another. A little common sense would go a long way to improve life for everyone in this country, today.

Ranselar VanDerpoel,

Yes. We're in agreement. There are no victimless crimes.