What a crock of shit. Women of South Carolina, unit, in the form of a big ole protest. They just keep pecking away at women's rights - the goal of the far right is to turn the clock back to the fifties and what they think that means.

Once again Paul, we're in near total agreement. The difference this time is that I think they want to turn the clock back to the 1350s, or some other time before the renaissance. Of course, they're biding their time, taking it one century at a time.

When they illegalized alcohol it drove it into the shadows and created a dangerous criminal network to fulfill the basic truth of supply and demand. They've done it with pot and other drugs and abortion in the past and now phase two. And every body suffers by making abortion illegal - women most obviously, but I think sometimes families, and men and already born children. I'm understanding when a female friend she says she thinks she's pregnant and I already know she doesn't take the pill - because there are sometimes side effects and it really is wierd and unnatural in a sense to fool the body like that hormonally. Yet I think, too, so why isn't he wearing a condom - I mean you're only dating in a sort of steady way so aren't you worried about a disease? So I think contraceptives is important for multiple reasons, but a women should not be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy - it just isn't right.

"In yet another scheme to guilt-trip women out of having abortions..."

What is the matter with you people! The fetus is just a formless, meaningless lump of inhuman flesh, so what guilt is there to be had by looking at an ultrasound image of it?

The ultrasound image only shows what is there. If pro-abortion people are right -- i.e. the fetus is not a person and is a worthless lump -- then that will be borne out by the ultrasound images. So what do you have to fear? Oh, could it be that you're deluding yourself? Could it be that the fetus is really a living, moving human baby, and perhaps feelings of guilt are appropriate? You know this is true; otherwise, there would be no point to your opposition to the ultrasound.

If avoiding reality is the only way you can keep a clear conscience, then maybe you need to reconsider your position.

Christian Fundamentalist are my most loathed sub group! They are hypocritical, lieing, manipulative, control freaks who would literally kill you rather than leave you alone if they can't control you. These people are patriarchal pedophiles. They make me sick to my stomach and I wish they'd all have their Rapture Ready Steady let's Go thingee and piss off to Jesus' anus, or wadeva....

GreginOz: Stop the hate, man! You are living proof of your hyperbole. Were your statements true, I believe you'd have been killed by now. (Uh, what was that you were saying about "lieing" [sic]?)

Michael...ha ha. I really do despise fundamentalism. It amazes me that American Christians equate worshiping Jesus with bombing the f*ck out of civilians in, what, 50 military interventions since WWII?!? Was it Lenin that said "the death of one man is a tragedy but the death of a million is just a statistic." ? Well, I am PRO abortion AND I wouldn't piss on a fundamentalist if they were on fire. Cheers.

What I find interesting about that small but very vocal, scary, and powerful minority that has taken over the Republican Party so completely is the following list of beliefs:

1) All life is sacred.
2) Abortion is murder.
3) Gun control is bad.
4) The death penalty is good.
5) Welfare and all social programs to help poor people are bad.
6) Sex education is bad.
7) Birth control is bad.
8) Abstinence only education is the only type of sex education that is morally acceptable even though it does nothing.

If you look at this combination of self-contradictory beliefs, you see that it is clear from numbers 3, 4, and 5 that number 1 is not true. Number 2 says we want all unplanned and unwanted pregnancies carried to term but 5 says that we don't want to spend any money to give these unwanted babies a decent life. Numbers 6, 7, and 8 say that we want as many unwanted pregnancies and as much AIDS transmission as possible.

So, to sum up the far right's position on these matters a good statement would be, "Life begins at conception and ends at birth."

As for what someone might see on an ultrasound, who cares? This is just another way for people to attempt to stop some small number of abortions.

By the way Michael, you should seriously consider reading Freakonomics. It is neither left nor right nor even political in nature. However, there is some really good data from the various states in the U.S. and from other countries around the world that the major crime drop we experienced in the 90s was due to Roe vs. Wade.

Crime dropped earlier in the 5 states that legalized abortion before Roe. Crime dropped more significantly in states where abortion was used more often. Crime dropped similarly in other countries around the world in a similar amount of time after legalizing abortion.

Apparently, women are statistically quite capable of determining whether they are really ready to take care of a child. So, what Roe did was allow women to exercise their discretion, abort unwanted fetuses, and thus not raise the next generation of criminals. The data is too long to post on a blog. But, you really should read the book. It's a quick read.

I am not, nor is the author, advocating legalized abortion as a crime control technique. However, it does show that women know when they’re capable of raising children and should never be forced to do so.

Hey Mikey,
Get your nose out of women's bodies!

You know, when I had an abortion a few years ago, seeing the Ultrasound made me feel BETTER.

I was at the standard time frame of about 7 weeks when I got my abortion (it generally isn't done past 13 weeks) and all I saw on the ultra sound was a small blob. THe doctor even measured it for me and told me it was a a CENTIMETRE and A HALF wide across.

It really put things into perspective for me and made me feel infinitely better about my decision. Any feelings I may have had about killing a baby kind of flew out the window.

Maybe the bill will backfire. I have no idea what they are expecting women to do when the see the ultrasound.

Are these mandatory ultrasounds provided free? Does that cost the clinic?, Is Dobson donating the equipment to women's health centers? Is it too late to capitulate the Civil War and secede South Carolina?
I love this comment:
"So, to sum up the far right's position on these matters a good statement would be, "Life begins at conception and ends at birth."
MiScott, and this one:
"they want to turn the clock back to the 1350s"
Further. The Magna Carta was signed in 1066, if the Bushies and the Fundies have their way, we're headed for a feudalist monarchy with theocratic trappings, divine right of kings and all that crap.

Jeannette,

Two issues with what you say, one is that I don't want it to have any effect at all in either direction, backfire or not.

The other is that CV has an excellent point about the cost of the ultrasound. Perhaps this is just a tactic to have that cost figured into the cost of the abortion and drive up the price, thus reducing the number of women that can afford one.

BTW, has anyone considered that perhaps we lefties should be taking another tack? I'm thinking about the effect on a woman's life for giving birth, in terms of either the effect of raising the child or the emotional effects of giving up the child, not to mention the health risks associated with carrying to term and giving birth.

Perhaps the government should require mandatory counseling for all pregnant women to explain that there are other options.

BEFORE EVERYONE JUMPS DOWN MY THROAT, I should point out that this is MOSTLY a joke. But, as with much humor, there is an element of truth. Many couples, IMHO, get married, move out to the burbs, and pop out a litter of kids without much thought. It’s what’s expected.

Perhaps, rather than the humorous suggestion above, we really should educate people in (dare I say it) sex ed classes about all possibilities, including remaining child-free by choice, that are available in this day and age. That way, people would be more likely to make really informed decisions.

And, oh yeah, if the righties were really against abortion, they’d require sex ed classes with real information on birth control. Such classes are shown to delay sexual activity and promote use of effective birth control. This then reduces unwanted pregnancy and disease transmission in real and demonstrably effective ways.

A few thoughts...

1. What Jesus taught and what fundamentalists preach are often, saddly, two completely different things. If he were around today... he would be disgusted by fundamentalist "Christians".

2. Regardless of what side you are on, abortion is not a nice thing. Pro choice doesn't mean pro abortion. It's nice and neat to say something is just wrong... period... but reality is always more complex than that.

@ Misanthropic Scott

I am fortunate that I live in Canada and can't fathom the concept of additional or nessecary medical services being billed as though going through a supermarket checkout. There were many options presented to me through the procedure (manual pump vs mechanical vacum, IV drugs vs none, ultrasound or not, etc etc etc) and none of the choices would have effected the cost of my procedure one way or the other.

As far as whether or not it will backfire either way, all I am suggesting is that since seeing it was nothign more than a cluster of tissue the size of my pinky fingernail made it easier for me to make peace with what I am doing, ultimately in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps other girls will find this is the case also.

In canada, if you are candian, fortuantely there is no such thing as "afford" an abortion or not.

Scott, the fundamenalists I know consider birth control (pill and condom, et al) to be a form of "aborting," as well. Of course, maybe they're just ultraFun. (small joke)

This is so sad... it's strange to see the disparity between states like New Hampshire and South Carolina when you look at their legislation track records of the past few months... How could the US be so completely divided by region, yet we're all so similar??

Jeannette,

Ah, Canadian. I keep hoping that all the blue states, including mine, which all either border each other or Canada, will just secede and become part of Canada. I love Canada. I’ve traveled to some beautiful and remote locations there, probably more than most Canadians, wonderful place.

I’ve seen maps of the resulting two nations on the internet. Some call the resulting red state nation Jesusland. Some call it Dumbfuckistan.

Austin,

You said, “How could the US be so completely divided by region, yet we're all so similar??”

I think you may be missing the point of religion. Its very purpose is to be divisive. It is intended to differentiate Us from Them so that it becomes OK to kill Them. It is always OK to kill Them. In fact, nothing else gets people killing with the fervor of religion, especially the judeo-christian-islamic religion (deliberately singular).

This is my primary reason for being an antitheist. Logic alone would only get me as far as being an atheist. Looking at the deleterious effect of religion on humanity, as evidenced by the actual deletion of humans in the name of religion, is what carries me all the way to antitheism.

@Misanthropic Scott:

Your list of contradictory "beliefs" is very informative.

What it tells me is that there must be a different real reason underlying the ones they put forth as the actual reasons for their beliefs.

If you look at most of them, what explains them is not "Life begins at/before conception and ends at birth," but rather SEX IS BAD and should only be engaged in for reproductive purposes, and that women are inherently evil and need to be controlled.

Now, many of the later comers to their movement may have bought into the "rationalized" reasons which has led them to be forced into adopting positions which appear hypocritical (and are in fact hypocritical with respect to their stated rationalized reasons).

Scott, could it be that you misread by 'region' as 'religion'? At any rate, doesn't matter, and I agree with you 100% on your claims about the negative effect of religion the world over.

There are really not that many differences between North American fundamentalists religious groups and terrorist organizations. Both are composed of (usually) weak-minded members who have been persuaded into believing imaginary things by leaders who usually don't believe any of it, but are only hanging around for the cash and other benefits.

Austin,

Egg on my face. Yes. I read what I wanted to read rather than what you said, I guess. I even copied and pasted it perfectly and still misread it.

Funny though that your post made sense both ways. I guess it's because regionally, we have pockets with high densities of religious fundamentalists.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I am enjoying this blog much more than the thought of all the wasted money on these tests. But it is the manditory thing that gets me the most. I am 54 yrs. old and used to be a fundamentalist. Today, I can't imagine what harm I may have done to my fellow man with all the judgmentalism. I wish people would stop trying to control each other. A woman loses minerals and many other nutrients of her body, let alone her body shape and some function during a pregnancy. That should only be a personal choice. I believe that people who are afraid of choice are ultimately afraid that a choice could once have have been made in their physical lives. It is a fear from the reptile brain. Do I need to say more?

Where is the logic. Is this the rightwing dittohead rush limbaugh fan club that I have stumbled upon.

What?! Are you saying that if women are allowed to view the fetus before aborting it they will feel guilty??? Then shouldn't we examine the reasons for why they would feel guilt.

Are you therefore suggesting women should have no clear idea of what they are aborting. Gee lets call Fox Network because this sounds like a job for Bill O'Reilly.

Why don't we take this idea to its logical conclusion and pretend that it is a cancerous growth that is being eliminated so that the women will not only not feel guilty but they can feel GOOD about it.

If you are pro-abortion that is your freedom. If you are anti-abortion you are no less free. Congratulations to SC for this one. This is a lesson in how to bring on the fight and its too bad that if there is a argument to be made in opposition that no one here could make it.

Prohibition had begun in 1920 amid high hopes. Evangelist Billy Sunday proclaimed, "The reign of tears is over. The slums will soon be a memory. We will turn our prisons into factories and our jails into storehouses and corncribs. Men will walk upright now, women will smile and children will laugh. Hell will be forever for rent."

The ban on abortion will likewise be proclaimed as a panacea, bringing in an era of morality, health and family values. In fact it will be like any other prohibition. It will criminalize the innocent, profit criminals and cause more human suffering.

Modern Billy Sundays and Elmer Gantrys can go screw themselves and leave the rest of us alone.

i (perhaps naively) wish that the people who are so vehemently (and violently) opposed to abortion would invest even half that effort on behalf of the miserable beings who are already born (eg crack babies, foster kids, etc). i also wish that those who are so vehemently in favor of maintaining women's right to choose could put more effort into helping prevent unwanted pregnancies. as long as people are fallible (a while probably) we will always have the situation of women seeking abortion, but endeavoring to reduce unwanted pregnancies, rather than trying to stop or avail abortions could be a cause for unity. am i a dreamer???

There certainly is an argument to be made in oppostion to this onerous law. Ultrasound is a medical procedure performed by doctors only with the informed consent of the patient. Unless all the SC legislators are doctors (many of whom never got to college!), they are practicing medicine without a license by requiring doctors to perform these tests and not allowing the patient to give consent. Most medical guidelines for performing ultrasounds recommend that they be used only when "medically necessary" since there are slight and still unknown risks (since long-term studies have not been done) to the embryo. Ultrasounds in early pregnancy are done in two different ways - one requires the woman to have a full bladder, be slathered with conductive gel, and then have the "wand" physically pushed and pulled over her full bladder and abdomen for a number of minutes. The other requires an ultrasound "wand" to be inserted in her vagina. Neither procedure is pleasant. Which brings me to the other point about this law - it is in violation of the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution which protects us against unnecessary and intrusive searches and seizures. What could be more intrusive than either form of ultrasound! The bodily integrity of a woman is being violated to try and stop her from making a very personal decision that should only be between her and her doctor. This law will force doctors to basically "assault" a patient under the guise of showing her a "picture" of a "child". This procedure is not like aiming a camera at a person and taking a vacation picture. This is a medical test that should only be used for diagnostic purposes.

This law also treats women as if they are mindless idiots who are too stupid to understand what they are about to do and therefore they need the Paternalistic Legislators to teach them the error of their ways. Women never take abortion lightly - they agonize over their decision, but ultimately have to make a choice that is best for them, their families and their health. It would be interesting to see what would happen if men who wanted vasectomies were made by law to have an invasive procedure to test their "swimmers" beforehand and then have to watch a film of them that explains that "spilling their seed" is against God's law. The uproar would be horrific. But it seems to be OK in America to violate women and their bodies in the name of being pro-life. No one seems to be pro the woman's life - unless she is braindead on a ventilator. I'm disgusted!

Shelley, I was already with you on this. You've now made me feel even more strongly. Thank you for a highly informative post.

As an aside, when getting my vasectomy, I was offended by a doctor or two that asked how many children I have (the number is zero) and then attempted to dissuade me with stories of people that came back for reversal, etc.

I went to a doctor that was non-judgemental about me not wanting children. And, I did get tested for my swimmers, in an attempt to avoid an unnecessary procedure. Unfortunately, I was healthy in that respect. But, had this been mandatory, I'd have felt mildly violated. And my test was less invasive than those that you describe.

Why don't we try to get a law making retro-active abortion legal up to the age of 18? Many parents discover far too late that they made a mistake in having children.

Why not mandate that george bush see a photo of every soldier or iraqi civilian that stands to die for every bomb drpped or bullet to be fired. That's a fair trade for this bill.

I think this is a great idea! I wish that women weren't allowed to have abortions at all. Allowing abortions just rips and tears at the very foundation that has made this country so great - the great importance placed on human life. I think that the culture of America has become cold and hateful in that it too easily allows our thoughts to ignore all the human beings in this world that are hurting, need food and need our help in so many ways, help that we are perfectly capable of bringing if we weren't so selfish with our time and resources. To ignore the unborn children, by quickly having an abortion followed up by a life-time of trying to not think about that child is cold and counter-productive to making this world a place that people would be joyful about living in. The great source of joy in my life is to know that Jesus gave up his comfort to serve and die for me. And not only that but that the creator of the universe cares enough about little me to help me in my day to day living. I am also deeply touched by our soldiers which give up their lives to protect us. These are things that promote joy in my life, bitter-sweet as it is. They believe so much that my life is important that they would give up their own to protect it. This is the cultural view that we should be promoting; a cultural view that deeply believes in the importance of human life and knows the great power and benefit of putting others before ourselves. Thank your mom for not having aborted you. I see that my view is far out-numbered in these comments, so I wanted to point out to you that the very thought process that you are likely to be having now which is enabling you to be close-minded to the pro-life view should be noticed by you as a cold and hateful decision. To just allow your thoughts and actions to ignore all the human beings that need your help day after day is cold-hearted. You are contributing to the hopelessness of America, which says that life isn't really worth living anyway. Life is important and I pray that you see that before the end of yours. Love is what makes the world go around. Love is not a funny fealing, it is an action of selflessness. I am convinced that without selflessness human life could not go on. So, are you contributing to the good of the world with selflessness or the evil of the world with selfishness? Jesus loves you and so do I. :)