Get rid of liberal guilt here:
www.theguiltyliberal.com

The GDP doesn't correlate to anything meaningful. Exxon spills oil in Valdez. It costs $10 billion to clean it up. How does this subtract from the GDP? It doesn't. Instead, the $10GB (gigabuck) cleanup is ADDED to the GDP.

As for the economics of climate change, countries that are making changes are experiencing explosive economic growth. There's money in selling wind and solar technology, just not for Exxon/Mobil.

Also, consider the cases of Haiti and the Dominican Republic, as detailed in Collapse by Jared Diamond. Both share the same island. Both are European cultures. Haiti cut down all of their trees and is the poorest country in the new world.

The Dominican Republic conserved a high percentage of their land. They are a developing nation with a reasonable economy, not first world, but not horrible. They are, if I remember correctly, the richest nation in the Caribbean.

So, we can trash everything get rich quick and go broke soon thereafter. Or, we can take a longer view, switch to a better economic indicator, and maybe, just maybe, we can avoid global civilizational collapse.

It is interesting to note that Hurricane Katrina was a major plus to the GDP of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast. It added billions to the economy rebuilding all the infrastructure destroyed by that natural disaster. Maybe GDP isn't such a reliable measure after all?

Manufacturing causes most polution and Communist China is the leading manufacturer(everything we buy comes from China). They need to invest in anti smog devices so people can walk out doors without getting sick. You Americans need to go vegetarian since you do not manufacture much anymore. The energy to produce beef and the gas that they produce makes more polution than your fat pick up trucks and SUV's. Speaking of fat, 50% of you are over consumers of food while other people starve. You should be ashamed of yourselves for being such selfish boars.

Lucy Lu,

Some of us are indeed ashamed of ourselves. Some of us even take it a step further and are ashamed of our species as a whole. I sincerely hope China can clean up the air. Unfortunately, if successful, this will further reduce global dimming, thus increasing global warming. I think it's still worth it. But, we have a lot to do to reduce global warming and it only increases if we clean up the air.

Cleaning up the air, so we can breath is top priority. This is nonsense that clean air makes for global warming. Global warming comes from cow farts. Stop eating beef selfish person.

We should go back to using aerosol, it shields us from global warming. Maybe global warming is caused by the sun cycles. In 2012 we will get hit hard and it will knock out all of our satellites. Everything is done by satellites now,no more internet and no more offshore jobs to China(e.g. Lucy Lu) and India and no more war(our military is blind without the satellites).

When they say aerosols cause global dimming, they're not talking about spray cans. From Wikipedia: "As a common term, aerosol would be interpreted by the general population as meaning an aerosol spray can or output from such a can. In scientific terms it refers to airborne solid particles also called dust or particulate matter (PM) as well as liquid droplets."

So what they mean is, the particulate pollution in the air blocks some sunlight and reduces global warming. Unfortunately, these particulates are highly injurious to human health. Not really the best way to fight climate change.

You fat Americans(you know who you are) need to stop eating and farting so much and then we will have cleaner air and less methane gas(green house gas). You selfish fat Americans need to go on a vegetarian diet. There should be no incondescent light bulbs in your houses. Don't buy so much. The spirit of "consumerism" is a big factor in green house gas. All these vices come from being selfish and arrogant. Shame on you all.

Lucy, you should stop making assumptions about all Americans. First, there is definitely a population in America which refuses to live like you ascribe. Not all Americans are "fat" and not all Americans are selfish. Another thing is that obsessing over details here is not going to get you anywhere. If you wish to actually make a change, target outlets where you will reach people who do not know how to think for themselves, provide more information and reasons why what you say is correct, and stop insulting people.

As a another note, insulting people is not a way to get them to change their habits. It will only get them annoyed at you and cause them to create a stereotype which assumes that all people presenting an argument in the same direction you are taking are the same and thus should be ignored. In order words, you are being counter productive by speaking out the way you are.

Finally, it feels that you are just following the latest ecological curve by the way you are ranting. If you want to get people to change, provide well constructed, reasonable arguments. It can turn peoples heads more than the senseless listing of "do this, do that".

Ms. Lu does make a good point about overweight people. Overweight people cut across all social economic groups because it is a battle of the will. It takes self-discipline for one to control their lower appetites(Ms. Lu, I am not limiting appetities to just food either). Overweight people lead to an ecological disaster. Not only the misallocation of food resources, but also the medical resources. Let us all have as our goal to eat no more than what as necessary in food and consumables. Think Green.

Actually Lucy Lu's remarks should be expanded. Looking at all the damage humans cause, we should all be ashamed of our entire species.

Lucy Lu...I am an American. I am also a vegan. I hardly ever buy anything, aside from the groceries I can't grow in my garden. So I just want you to know not all Americans are greedy little pigs. However, I would be inclided to agree that most are. In fact, many humans in many nations are greedy little pigs. And yes, shame on them all. However, the sad truth of the situation is that most of them don't care. They would much rather have a new SUV as opposed to being environmentally friendly. Environmental concerns can only be addressed in the same way political concerns can. Education. Teach everyone you can everything you can about making our planet cleaner, healthier, less oppressed, more humane, and an overall happier place to live. It seems like a big project, but it has to start somewhere. Oh yeah, and those who do or will subscribe to your ideas, teach them to teach others. Peace y'all.

I think all of you would benefit from providing facts to back up your comments. By facts, I mean links to websites, perhaps some book references, or perhaps what news source you used. It never hurts and allows you a cheap way to "teach" others about what you are talking about.

If anyone can give me a good scientific group of reasons to believe in man made global warming, I'll consider it.

As far as air quality goes...China uses coal power plants and is building them at an astonishing rate (like one per week for the immediate future).

And June 19, 2007 China passed the US in CO2 emmisions. China is not required under the Kyoto protocol to reduce its emissions because its a "developing country." All this can at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_of_China

And i eat meat because I enjoy the taste of suffering. I also ascribe to the belief that human beings are animals (shock gasp) and that emotions are chemical reactions intended to try and help us survive on a day to day basis. In other words, I don't base any of my decisions on my feelings and I really don't feel shame or guilt (especially not about US air polluting and consumerism).

I'm not greedy. Morally, I don't believe in putting strangers over those I know. That might make me selfish, but i believe all actions are taken for selfish reasons. There is no such thing as a selfless person.

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