"I'm not sure Salt Lakers consider Star Wars to be fiction. (Mormons believe Native Americans descended from the 12 tribes of Israel, and before that, Jedi Masters)."

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Oh, Josh, you had to go there. Mocking faith just doesn't make sense. Are you going to seriously argue that Mormonism makes less sense than say, Judaism or Christianity? I don't know if you're a man of faith. But if you don't believe that life is worth living and that love is worth having, then you truly are a lost soul. Life and love are the core underpinnings of all faiths. So tell me again, how is that bad?

Although Josh was speaking with a mean ireverency, the charge of "mocking faith" is increasingly used to avoid criticism of its genuinely troubling aspects. Life is very much worth living but that doesn't mean that a literal belief in the myth that Native Americans are a lost Jewish tribe (cursed to be non-white) is not only historically delusional but racist on its face. Now prejudice comes in thinking that a)all or even most Mormons belive this literally or b)there isn't a non-literal sense to these (or other beliefs) that are neither delusional nor racist. But I gotta tell you that as far as the perception of an underlying racism goes - the burden of proof ain't with the "unbelievers" even if every last Mormon denied a single racist thought or feeling. It's about the stories we tell ourselves and our kids and the way in which imagination shapes how we interpret the world and our experiences. It's not enough to renounce the results of racist mythologies, we have to become aware of how much of our outlook and attitudes are influenced by forces not directly under conscious control, which means you can be innocent in intention and guiltly in act. So by all means presume innocence - but don't tell me I can't mock what I find genuinely sinister. And because I might be wrong I'd hope I'd be more witty than mean (a la Colbert perhaps).

eb

Unless more people in America start ridiculing "faith", you won’t have much of a constitutional government left. When faith is only a matter of personal behavior (meaning, not generally public) then ridicule is – perhaps – “mean ireverency”. But NOW, the Christian fundamentalist, Mormons (not sure if they are considered “fundamentalist”) and Muslims (who went heavily Republican in 2000) have pushed their imaginary-friend into public policy. So, what OTHER defensive measure is available to rational people OTHER than ridicule. “Facts and ideas” sure won’t work. Belief in an imaginary-friend OR in ideology is completely devoid of facts. Somebody very smart on this site - many years ago - suggested that the only way to fight the fundamentalists – and their ilk – is with ridicule. He (I think, he) is still right (and – of course – it’s the only thing that work on males in general). If there was some “Swift Boat equivalent” Democratic group running “Jesus votes Republican” and “Question the Party? Question Jesus!” ads, and making the fascists-Daddy-worshiping party confront the “religion in public policy” issue – the discomfort level might go high enough to make these people shut up and go away. Ridicule is the ONLY thing that can work against an imaginary-friend.

The question I’d be hammering Romney with is: “Hey Romney, did your kids get personal revelations from the pedophile prophet not to enlist?” Romney’s a “born rich”, ex CEO – he’s been surrounded by corporate yes-men his entire life. He’d crack like-an-egg with minor ridicule.

It's easy (and fun) to make fun of Mormons, but the only metaphysical point I think I can prove is the idea, first put forth by Descartes, that "I think, therefore I am." Beyond that, Jesus, Allah or puff the magic dragon could rule the universe, for all I know. In that spririt, I hereby admit that the Mormons could be right, and agnostics such as myself simply have not seen the light (or worn long underwear anywhere near as often as we should).