The issue is not whether or not black people should have this conversation. We have absolutely no problem telling the world how bad and dysfunctional we are. This type of debate among black people is certainly not new.

The issue is that this debate has never and will never prescribe any effective solutions. No valuable revelation will come from confessing our sins, endlessly. Effective action requires an ability to see yourself as part of the solution. That seems unlikely in the wake of repetitive tirades that just reinforce negative stereotypes for too many that hear almost nothing else.

"They know exactly who the deserving and the undeserving poor are and just how tricky living in that integrated community can be. Funny that the black masses can call a spade a spade when a black Ph.D. cannot."

Just what does the term "undeserving poor" mean? That "their" moral failings got them into the mess that "they" are in? That "their" DNA, brain-wiring, etc. make it impossible for them to ever "succeed?" One can start imagining some troubling solutions depending on how the problem is framed. But let me start with a somewhat simple question: if there is such a thing as "undeserving poor", then WHO determines the definition? It's easy enough to say the "masses" know who "they" are, but is that really true? Or would "they" simply be pointing at everyone but themselves?"

Read the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson's book on "Scam, How the Black Leadership Exploits Black America."

Cosby, is trying very hard to get Blacks to understand they have the ability to improve their conditions in life, and that the reality is, only they can do it. I have never heard a full speech from him in this regard but I would doubt his message is simply one of 'put down' without including the message of the power to change. There has to be a shift in thought in the Black community which raises the level of conscious thought if there is to be real improvement. There has to be a raising of the level of conscious thought throughout the world if we are to improve our world. The need is simply more pronounced within the Black culture.

The Democratic Party machine wants to keep the Blacks on the plantation and dependent upon them. When one strays off the plantation, they are called names. With out the Black vote, the Democrats would not get elected. You see how vital it is to keep them on the plantation of dependency.

cosby's views do not add to "people's" perception and stereotypes. Unfortunately, they already exist even if all he talked about was how rich, successful, and beautiful black people are. The less fortunate black people would have been outraged if he talked about that as well so it really is a no win situation.

I would like to see some of the black leaders put their words into action. Are they reaching out into the community and speaking directly to the intended audience? If there are a few among the "undeserving poor" who really want to turn their lives around, who is willing to give their time and energy to assist. No one seems to care about this.

And GW Bush is a "deserving rich guy"? That's what roils many black folks: seeing white losers live a lot better than them - despite lacking moral character, discipline and willingness to work hard. It's especially discomforting for someone who spent 7 years of his life to get a medical degree looking up to a worthless wastrel like Paris Hilton.
Yes, blacks can do better for themselves. However, doing better does NOT equate to the material success that this decadent country worships. If Moses came down from the mount in the USA, there would be hundreds of tablet shards strewn about due to his disgust with our moral value system. And yes, many younger blacks are tempted to do the life of crime as a shortcut to the material success we as a society worship. And Bill goes ballistic about these layabouts - with no mention about the Paris Hilton/GW Bush/Brownie at FEMA, or the many drinking buddy/cronies of GOP powerhouses who make out like bandits.

this is quite possibly the most poorly written article i have ever read. spelling errors, sentences that don't make any sense at all, and an overall lack of cohesion. i'm extremely disappointed in Mother Jones for even being associated with this article. for shame.

There isn't any such thing as "psychic violence." Newspeak like that gradually abuses the term out of all meaning. Violence means only one thing-- actual violence.

Where is the point that B. Cosby is not qualified to scold or educate anyone on proper behavior? This is a man who is not THAT different in behaviour than a lot of the population he scolds.

He tells people to be a good father not just a baby's daddy, but when he thought he was a baby's daddy, he just sent money and prayed the girl would shut up. Does it really matter that she was not his biological child? The point is, for 20 some odd years he thought she was and treated her like a bill to be paid instead of a sibling to the children with whom he lived.

Bill also has a daughter who dispite all material advantages struggled with drugs. How about examining his role in that and writing a book for parents of addicts? No, that would be an acknowledgement of his own possible shortcomings. Why do that when you can point out those of others who can't fight back?

Don't even get me started on the drugging/rape allegations. There have been many more than the 1 or 2 that were publicised. He settled the last lawsuit after as many as 10 women were ready to testify against him.

Having Bill Cosby or Jesse Jackson for that matter, reprimand anyone on their pathology is like having R. Kelly speak to Boy Scouts on how to conduct themselves in the presence girls. Why are none of the journalists who interview or write about him willing to call him on his hypocritical crap? If this were a white popular culture figure with an HONARARY doctorate and a shady past, would he be given an hour on "Meet the Press"?

Poor man. He has been devastated by the loss of his son and will never be the same.

This message of his is a replay of so many calls for Black America to live up to the ideals of the privileged, and predominantly white, male dominated upper crust.

AS a Black woman I say, "no thanks". My twin sons were fathered by the same fellow and are the well adjusted adult product of a female dominant household.

Both Cosby and Jackson give credence to the worst examples of people who live outside of the Christian norm, and they should be ashamed of themselves. Until then, they are just another bump in a dark alley.

I think we have to realize that black America is changing; the black middle class is growing. Middle class blacks don't like the way blacks are perceived throughout the country and the world, and they begin to ask themselves “if I rose from poverty and crime why can’t they?". I think this is a valid question, and Cosby illustrates this point and our frustration, though he may not be the best mouthpiece. I think this is a conversation that we need to have, and that black academia, who have spent most their careers defending blacks against whites, feel as though the history of white oppression is being left out of it. They’re not afraid that whites will hear the conversation, but that completely absolving them of any responsibility, will only allow them to continue their oppression over us. I believe that blacks need to take control of our own freedom, but middle class blacks need to realize that this will take time, and only by understanding how white oppression got us to where we are can we move forward.

Black this, black that, black something else, my view is
that there's very much an
ethnic strain in today's
politics, from the historic
Klan-flavored stuff to the
more modern La Raza and BET
brands. I think, if people
want racism to die, and for
all people regardless of their
heritage or ethnic background
to stand up and grasp the
future with both hands in
vigorous fashion, then the
people seeking to profit by
perpetuation of segregation
are going to need to take
a back seat, regardless of
which community it is that
they seek to represent. United
we stand, divided we fall,
and since foreign countries
are now seeking to ride the
american ethnicity bandwagon,
there needs to be some up-front clarification with
all of this stuff. God only knows how many billions get
thrown into education, but maybe the real problem is that
a lot of people have forgotten
how to teach, and other people
never really bothered learn how to learn.

Literacy is key, in helping
an individual person pick
up and move on in life, and
hopefully seek and find a
better future for themselves.
Literacy is the doorway to
higher learning, but the
individual, regardless of
age, gender, skin color
or other seemingly defining
characteristic, must still
set their best foot forward
and stride through said door.

A school building can be
put together in a month,
a curriculum in twice that,
a faculty in 3. A successful
student can take a lifetime,
but it all starts with the
basics, the foundations, just
like that school building
foundation, the curriculum
with 1,2,3, and the faculty
with A,B,C,D, FAIL. Standards.
And the student? That starts
with the simple belief, of
believing in their own ability. I think they should
try to engage Samuel L. Jackson to speak on the subject of potential, and education, because he's an
intelligent, articulate,
impressive, SCARY dude that
could get people to listen.
No offense to Bill Cosby,
but I think Sam Jackson's
'the man' to get people to
sit up, and pay attention.

I'm with Bert, heart, mind and soul. Anybody sent Mr. Jackson an email, yet ? Hey, how about Oprah - maybe she can get a group dialogue started !
What I see in every-day America is mostly class war and gender divide; this ain't an ethnically based perception, but is based on my own experiences as an employee and as a female, and questions the ways and means toward "parity," for all NON-ELITE Americans. Imagine what we could do if we were willing to join, with great patience, without fall-back to our own little prejudices (for those with large prejudices, I don't know how to overcome hatred, though I do understand extreme anxiety and how ethnicity may carry ancestral memory -- it is a genetic and scientific truth, that we human beings are all related)...
One thing I've noticed, locally: people of all kinds do NOT say what they mean, many who get the chance seem to like to hear themselves talk, "official" agendas (school board, action committees, schools, city council, drop-out programs, etc.) are heavily slanted to b.s. and band-aids, though governmental entities will bust ass, to tip-toe or squash emotionally provocative issues, as if to prevent offense to anyone, and thereby, solving nothing -- non-solution may, indeed, be to their own benefit, huh, in the overall scheme of have and have-not ? The incomes of most of the people involved in governmental positions (including administrator positions in public schools) are higher than yours and mine, combined, plus they probably have social benefits (benefits that are not called, "welfare").
Bringing something / anything to the table should be accepted under any circumstance, since there are no solutions without attempts to name the problems, even if some speakers might offend through a sin of simplicity or lack of political correctness. Take the start-up where you can find it ! Have a conversation, yes, and if public, involve a trained mediator, with rules of conducting debate and recording content, even if this means of "talking" is not spontaneous -- since when have we had a model of open-air agora ?! Be pleased, if rhetoric is NOT used, since it is now co-equal to "empty words." Participation and address only begin when the topics are spoken out loud. Geez, how to get people together, that's the BIG question ?!
It will take many-many, who believe in parity, to address issues of parity, with parity. I'd willingly coalesce with the designated poor, whether tagged as, "deserving" or "undeserving," IF there was an actual forum for such coalition; I don't know how to found one, yet. But, until our kids do have on-par educations and are guided by educator - administrators dedicated to on-par transmission of non-fluffy knowledge -- and, until, as parents or guardians, we have some degree of pick-and-choose economic opp's. (hey, jobs) -- some segment of our "society" will busily, happily exploit ANYONE whose household income falls below a certain level.
I'd coalesce with any group who truly wants no child left behind or believes that people should have dedicated opportunities to discover and practice their individual skills and talents, for the fulfillment of self, support of family (whatever its' logistics), and yep, to add to the necessary padding of the tax-base.
Is there conspiracy at work, then ? Well, can't be on top, without a big ol' bottom heaping up. What to do & how ?! --- High Point, Guilford County, NC, USA.

No black. glad I'm not. Must be very hard to go through each day knowing you stand out if you're outside your neighborhood. However, it's high time to appreciate that the majority of americans just don't care about your problems of being black. We expect you to step up, behave, be honest, get an education (we've put more than enough money into the process), get a job (more than enough giveaways to get you in the work force), and participate in this society. If you live here you should vote. If you don't vote, don't bitch. If you don't like your situation, fix it or leave.

I have an idea what the term "undeserving poor" means, and I don't think it is limited to blacks. Chris Rock did a monologue years ago talking about the difference between being black and being a "nigger." The message was much like Bill Cosby's, but perhaps more pointed. He described the black person as someone who worked two jobs to make it possible for his kids to go to college, while the "nigger" was complaining that his unemployment check was late, or something to that effect. This comparison is not limited to black people, and is not limited to poor people (the examples of G.W. Bush & Paris Hilton were mentioned earlier. Maybe OJ Simpson might fit as well). What I hear Cosby and Chris Rock saying is directed to those who use poverty, bigotry, racism as an excuse to resort to drug use, irresponsible behavior as parents and other conduct that is destructive to the community as well as themselves. They address the black community because that is where their concern lies. Dave Chappelle sends much the same message with some of the characters he portrays. I have never heard any of them say there should not be programs to assist with teen pregnancy, unemployment, substance abuse or other problems that affect the black community or poor communities generally. What they are saying is that people have to help themselves in the process, and not simply sit back and languish in helplessness waiting for someone to rescue them from whatever the problem may be. I applaud them.

I emaild Sen Chuck Hagel asking him not to retire because the country needs like-minded republicans. I pointed out that many Black people are responsiby conservative in philosophy: strong moral vaulues and personal responsibility for the turns that life takes. In 2007, we can no longer blame "the white man" because Black children read or drop out of school or commit crimes againt ourselves.

If we blame the "whie man" then everything our predecessors (ML KING, Rosa Parks, Medger Evars, my parents) did was in vain.

Hey, forget the media madness and tune into the REAL WORLD, there's a bad chic (FINE!), school teacher who lectures from within the walls of public schools and reports whenever she returns to teach. She has career with Grammy world and also certified to teach, I was BLOWN away by her book and her lecture, it was AMUSING and thought provoking! parentsofblackchildren.com check her out!