not "ALL" just Barney Franks and the HRC ... last month it was all stirring speeches about not leaving anybody behind from Joe Solomnese of the HRC ... this month we were betrayed.

again.

thanks for nothing. solidarity *pfui*

Idealogical purism is great in theory, Eleanor, but as a gay person who is very satisfied with the gender that biology assigned him, I'm glad that the ENDA was passed as is. I hope that future bills can be passed that help transgender people, as well. I don't think that anyone should lose employment oportunties because of their differentness when it has no bearing on job performance. Still, glad the ENDA passed.

sorry, Paul, but that just doesn't cut it. Excluding us fatally weakens *your* freedoms too ... just who will respect ENDA?

and we are getting exceptionally tired of the word "later", it features big-time in our world already ... the non-inclusive bill will kill people - no, i'm not being melodramatic, people are suffering and sweating trying desperately to come up with the most minor costs, never mind surgery, and this bill will mean more people sacked or unhired for whom that job was their only chance to hang in there ... use your tepid imagination to figure out what comes next :'(

to us "non trans ENDA" translates into english as "die, pervert scum".

pardon my language, i am crying as i write this.

Eleanor,

Sometimes a song is written in half notes?

Crawling before we walk?

Baby steps?

Assuming the trans gender is a complete show stopper for the bill, should the LGB's also die waiting for the T's to be included?

It is absolutely vital that protection for all people no matter what their differences are can be created (because they don't exist).

Consider the civil rights movement. It took 100 years for the emancipation proclamation to become legislative "civil rights" under the law(1965). Once that was in place the SCOTUS was able to "legalize" mixed marriage (1967) forcing 36 states to remove laws that prohibited mixed race marriage. I imagine “mixed marriage” would have been a show stopper for the civil rights bill as the racists already feared those of color were coming for the white women (Insane but that is how they think).

Never despair, never relent.

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always."
~ Mahatma Gandhi

Eleanor, you're too irrational. Just because I didn't agree with you one hundred percent, you suggest that my imagination is tepid? Come to think of it, you may be right. It's fairly impossible for me to imagine being so dissatisfied with the gender I was born with that I would live my life trying to change it. I also wonder why the psychiatric profession doesn't question the sanity of this more often. After all, what would you say to someone who said that though they knew they were born black technically, they knew, just knew, that really they would never be happy until they were Asian? I don't mean to be unkind, but it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see how, for people who already find homosexuality outside the box, transgenderism would seem fairly outrageous. I take it in stride because I don't really think it's up to any of us to judge others for their variation, especially when that variation causes no one else harm. However, I do think that it's unfair to lump transgenderism in with homosexuality. Hating the very body you were given seems far more radical to me.

ok, none of you get it.

i am emotional because we are dying, and always last hired, first fired. somehow we are always last to be considered.

and FYI none of us can go the full course without letters of Reference from 2 psychiatrists, we are strictly held to to a Standards of Care document.

and yet you need us.

in California the anti-hate crime legislation that forbids the "gay panic" defense is named after a 17 year old trans girl Gwen Araujo who was murdered ... we die for you.

and i presume that you've heard of the Stonewall riots that "started the gay liberation movement"... Really? a bunch of "Men in skirts" assaulted the police and this has something to do with Gays? ... we fight for you.

and we are building cases based on our shapeshifting that will destroy the legal basis of banning same-sex marriage ... we will free you.

and yet you have no respect, and discard us like week old pizza with mold at the first opportunity.

one step at a time? which step is that? have you planned anything beyond your own satisfaction? will you actually back us on the "next step", or walk away because you have your needs covered?

your arguments are facile and hollow, if you discard us you demote your virtue to opportunism.

eleanor,

You have a valid point. I guess the civil rights act of 1965 should have waited until the bill could include everybody.

Who cares how many LBG's and people of color would have been killed waiting for the law to include transgender.

Everybody should wait until perfection is attained and everybody is included. If that makes sense to you.

"have you planned anything beyond your own satisfaction? will you actually back us on the "next step", or walk away because you have your needs covered?"

Wowser, the personal attacks are too petty to address.

The issue is not me.

I am not gay, bi or lesbian nor am I transgender so what exactly are you on about?

I offer some type of explanation and some hope and you want to trash me and attack me personally.

Good day. I will have none of that crud.

I do, in fact "get it" you are the one with an issue about everything and everybody - so it seems.

the problem is that gays and lesbians see the world as sexual
and don't under stand gender at all. i was born inter sexed and doctor fixed (hah) that at birth. try to imagine not having a penis, or a vagina when you body knows it should be there, my brain is mostly female , but brought up male, you have no idea how that hurts , all my instincts are to respond one way but i respond the other out of fear of beatings or rejection or humiliation
human rights are for humans
not gays or lesbians or straight people , get that through your head.
now you won your rights we will be forgotten again , thank you

Dear moderator.

I will not post on a moderated thread. WHAT IS THE DEALIO?

Open discussion demands open communication.

Moderation SUCKS -

you are welcome to post or delete this comment.

It would be nice to have a set of rules that apply to all threads at MoJo - seems a bit odd that such a thing is implemented ad hoc and without any reason. I have not seen any other thread moderated here at MoJo but I am new to your "system" and I clearly have stuff to learn.

Thanks

All of you, stop your fighting. You are like little children. See the big picture. It doesn't matter because the President will veto the bill. You need to be mature and pick your fights, don't waste energy fighting over something that is going no where. People are dying in Iraq everyday but you don't care.

It's called multi-caring, Pam. Sort of like multi-tasking. It means we can care about our civil liberties and ALSO care about other things, like the voting block that statistically is most likely to a]resist equality laws for LGB and T people and b] believe that war is the best answer to conflict.
And no is fighting like children, here, Pam. We're having a lively debate like grown ups. You, however, are escalating and mooing and being melodramatic like a harassed, martred mother.

Paul, multi-tasking is a proven failure.

I am tired of arguing with the blind, so this is my last post in this thread.

If you really want to get your head around our world, and why we're so angry about ENDA, check out today's reading list i just culled from a Transgender clipping service:

http://tinyurl.com/2l3flr -- a TG education
http://tinyurl.com/c8mlc -- a TG activist
http://tinyurl.com/335hl8 -- a Gay theorist

Who are you calling blind, eleanor? Me or Paul, or both?
I am sorry to hear that you are angry. But sometimes it is good to be in touch with our emotions.

If you pick the fights you can win , you wont win many
you need to pick the fights worth fighting for