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Warning Warning Warning: Nader at 8-10% in Michigan
The Clinton campaign woke up with a big case of the I-told-you-so's.
A Michigan poll from Lansing-based polling outfit EPIC-MRA shows 78 percent of Michigan voters think the country is on the wrong track, 42 percent think the economy is the most important issue in the election, 75 of the country has a negative estimation of how the President has performed, and oh yeah, eight to ten percent plan to vote for Nader.
The polls shows these general election match-up results:
McCain 46%, Clinton 37%, Nader 10%
Obama 43%, McCain 41%, Nader 8%
Michigan is a battleground in November, and the Dems can't afford to lose eight to ten percent to Nader. In 2000, Nader took two percent in Michigan. In 2004, it was one percent. It's possible that voter dissatisfaction with the Democrats, who do not plan on using the results of the Michigan primary, will push McCain over the edge. Especially if homestater Mitt Romney is his VP pick.
Michigan's 17 electoral votes aren't a foregone conclusion, of course. Obama beats McCain in the poll, and a lot of angry Democrats will "come home" to the Democratic nominee before election day. But if the Democrats aren't going to heed the Clinton campaign's (admittedly self-serving) advice to hold a do-over in Michigan, the nominee is going to have to do a lot of make-up work there.
Comments
nice bit of photoshopping
Let's see, ignore the left, ignore the left ignore the left ... and then some guy runs to your left!
Quelle suprise!
Posted by: Elydog on 04/16/08 at 10:30 AM Respond
Noooooooooo.....
Posted by: PoBo DeLoussilli on 04/16/08 at 10:38 AM Respond
Umm... Link please?
Posted by: Pwokko Hu Huzzuollo on 04/16/08 at 10:49 AM Respond
Premature hand wringing. Can Nader even get on the ballot?
He is not in the mix for this parties primary and your advice about the HRC campaigns advice is just your opinion and is flawed on its face. If the DNC doesn't follow their own rules - however crazy they might be - they will have too much work to make up nationally.
Posted by: capt - Hussein on 04/16/08 at 10:50 AM Respond
Boys and girls gather round and listen close, for the Grim Reaper rides tonight, with a howling pack of macabre moral mutants at his back...
And The Pope, try as he might, can do nothing here (??????)--IT'S ALL THAT LOVELY LUCRE--FAT CATS SIMPLY CANNOT RESIST GOBBLING IT UP!!!!!!
Yes Sirry Bob, pack up the babies and grab the old ladies--because tonight, finally, at long last, George W. will unveil his state of the dirty arts, powerful Smash and Grab technique...
Actually, for something far more interesting than tonight's boring, entirely predictable (yet coming very late) episode of "Professional Con Job," see Nader on the Record: An interview with Ralph Nader about his presidential platform on energy and the environment, by Amanda Little, GRIST (Environmental News and Commentary), 03/19/08.
Though I do disagree with his stance on bio-fuel (no corn but hemp, cellulosic grasses, and certain kinds of biomass that can be grown with a spectacular ratio of energy inputs to outputs).
Ethanol gets mixed with gasoline (I don't know exactly why--ethanol alone clogs engines?), and this actually causes a minor increase of greenhouse gas, plus it causes more everyday type of smog...
And why did they Kill the Electric Car (must be a "good" reason)? I mean..., so you make it a Plug-in Hybrid, with only a 100 miles of electric power per charge before it switches to gasoline--like that's too damn tough for a Big Strong Ol' Boy like George W.
Meanwhile, the permanent magnet Maglev Wind Turbines get twenty percent more juice and, with its low center of gravity is perfect for offshore wind farms (with unlimited potential...). Use such to make Hydrogen "deposits" for "rainy days."
Nader says to Hell with the Cap and Trade Emissions Trading System--lets put in place a straight-out tax on hydrocarbon production at the production source.
But another instance where Nader is wrong is where he says, "I think solar energy is on the verge of exploding in this country."
In fact, Fat Cat Geroge W. Bush, and all the lesser demons..., passed a New Energy Bill that THREW ALL THE SOLAR ENERGY INCENTIVES OUT THE WINDOW, "replacing" such with tax breaks for Big Oil.
How weird is it that, following WWII, there was still enough money in the pot for us to rebuild the countries that attacked us...
And so... Big Mojo--really, you're getting all hysterical about nothing--all the Major Candidates are Bogus Pretenders to the Green Throne--as are you???!!!
Posted by: Michael L. Wagner on 04/16/08 at 12:32 PM Respond
For all those disappointed Mike Gravel supporters out there, you may still have a shot at casting your vote for him in the general election.
(Mojo seems to have been mum on this development, for some reason)
["I'm joining the Libertarian Party because it is a party that combines a commitment to freedom and peace that can't be found in the two major parties that control the government and politics of America," declared Gravel, who was elected to the Senate in 1968 and served two terms before his defeat in a 1980 Democratic primary.
"My libertarian views, as well as my strong stance against war, the military industrial complex and American imperialism, seem not to be tolerated by Democratic Party elites who are out of touch with the average American; elites that reject the empowerment of American citizens I offered to the Democratic Party at the beginning of this presidential campaign with the National Initiative for Democracy."]
Source: www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=303696
Posted by: Say What? on 04/16/08 at 1:51 PM Respond
Don't go getting people's hopes up about a Michigan "do-over." We've passed the deadline to prepare for a May election, and by law we are limited to elections on the 4th Tuesday of February and the 1st Tuesdays of May, August and November. Our GOP controlled Senate will exact a price too high for anyone's taste to allow us to have an early June primary using regular polling places.
We could opt for some "mega-sized" caucuses, but the odds of the MDP, Obama and HRC all agreeing to rules in time to meet the DNC deadline of mid-June are nano-slim and none. And I'd bet the farm on none.
As for Mr. Nader, I am impressed that he is polling that high right now. But how does he gain ballot access this time around. Seems to me that McCain (and the Michigan GOP) has just as much to gain from keeping him off the ballot as either Obama or Clinton (and the Michigan Dems). And the money Nader raised from Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield and other deep pocketed liberals in 2000 will not be there to fund ballot access.
Good luck with that national write-in campaign, Mr. Nader.
Posted by: Egalitare on 04/16/08 at 3:07 PM Respond
I don't really see this polling data to have anything to do with whether or not a re-do primary occurs in MI (which is not going to happen). If anything it just says that people are sick of the two-party system, at least here in MI. The Libertarians' stock has never been higher thanks to Ron Paul, and seeing those poll numbers, maybe Nader will do better than anyone supposed (provided, as some have noted, he is able to get his name on the ballot).
My sig other and I have a completely untested hypothesis that youth voters this year (of which we are a part of) may be more interested in voting for someone they like rather than sticking to a particular party, even in the face of third party candidates not doing well on the national stage. Like I said, pure speculation, but I do wonder if that is an element at all. It is important to us, anyway - we are both planning to vote for Obama, and if he is not on the ballot, we will vote for Nader (write-in or no), because neither of us feel we can in good conscience vote for Clinton or McCain.
Posted by: JP on 04/16/08 at 4:39 PM Respond
I think it's almost as interesting that if this poll is correct, voters are favoring Obama over Clinton. So A do over may not be so self-serving.
Posted by: Benjamin on 04/16/08 at 7:33 PM Respond
Good god. Does Nader really want MCCAIN in the white house?
Astounding.
Posted by: Bill Moore on 04/16/08 at 8:01 PM Respond
I won’t vote for Obama because he once was promising but has morphed into an unusually charismatic but typically mediocre politician. A man once known for engaging the issue of Palestinian liberation in Chicago’s Arab American community now can be found sharing his message of Israel-love to anybody who will listen. This change of opinion intimates a lack of integrity. Obama’s supporters will argue that he is simply doing what allows him to become a viable contender for president, to which I would respond: if one wishes to keep his or her integrity intact, then that person shouldn’t seek national office as a Democrat. Obama is willingly forfeiting his integrity for his ambition. That is his choice and it isn’t my place to make the decision on his behalf. However, it is my place to decide not to vote for him based on that choice.
The primary but not exclusive impetus for my displeasure with Obama is his suddenly avid support of Israel. It is an issue that I and many of my peers in the Arab American community cannot dismiss, as do other progressive supporters of Obama. We may be accused of shortsightedness by rejecting Obama based largely on this issue, but nearly everybody privileges one or few concerns when entering into the American political arena: religion, abortion, a particular foreign policy, immigration, the economy. I cannot listen to the man smilingly discuss the continued dispossession of millions of people who have already suffered unspeakably and then endorse such treachery with a vote.
In any case, there is no need to apologize for or shy away from emphasizing Israel’s brutality. Far from being a marginal item in the life of the United States, American support for Israeli colonization has serious moral and geopolitical consequences. It, more than any other action, generates justifiable anger toward the United States in much of Europe and almost uniformly throughout the Southern Hemisphere. It extends the bloody tradition of settler colonization in the American polity and in its imagination, a state of mind that helps facilitate so many of today’s imperialist adventures. And it renders every politician who has ever lectured an Arab nation about human rights glaringly hypocritical.
I will vote for Ralph Nader.
Posted by: Clarence on 04/16/08 at 8:35 PM Respond
Yeah! Ralph is the only hope and the only sane choice when compared with Hillbama McPain. C'mon.
Posted by: The ZaZ on 04/16/08 at 9:13 PM Respond
Is everyone this blind?
Ron Paul is still in it!!
Nader over Hillbama McPain sure. but Nader over R. Paul??
you'd have to be crazy.
Posted by: Justin on 04/17/08 at 5:24 AM Respond
Nader over Ron Paul in a heartbeat - at least Ralph isn't a racist and a kook.
Posted by: capt - Hussein on 04/17/08 at 5:57 AM Respond
Well, okay Nader is a kook but . . . .
Posted by: capt - Hussein on 04/17/08 at 5:57 AM Respond
because NOBODY WANTS A POPULIST PLATFORM...
if they're already in the Democratic Party & sitting down to negotiate with their FINANCIAL POWER BACKERS.
nah, can't have the ELECTORATE AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE, can we??
*duh*...
Nader's platform is THE BEST SOLUTIONS YOU'LL NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAVE...
you can thank a 2-Party-"career politician" System & corporatized media for THAT.
~~~
Spread Love...
BlueBerry Pick'n
ThisCanadian com
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"Do no harm"
Posted by: BlueBerry Pick'n on 04/17/08 at 9:31 AM Respond
ROMNEY???
really?
after McCain gets innoculated against a Romney/Huckabee ticket with a major Mormon splinter group scandal?
http://thiscanadian.typepad.com/this_canadian/2008/04/lds-arrests-mcc.html
really? they didn't FIND that 16 year old 'anonymous caller' did they?
convenient timing, eh?
only FOUR YEARS with an FBI Informant on site? really??
come on.
~~~
Spread Love...
BlueBerry Pick'n
ThisCanadian com
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"Do no harm"
Posted by: BlueBerry Pick'n on 04/17/08 at 9:35 AM Respond
Who can sit there, on his obese posterior, and tell me it's not like:
SINGULARLY KOOKY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD DELIBERATELY CHOOSE CROOKS OVER A WHISTLE-BLOWING CRUSADER...
Jesus explained it's stupid to indirectly "sponsor" crime by exploiting, then just get all bent out of shape--because the damn poor people are all so damn rotten--of course (DUH!!!), you reap what you sow here...
Yet, in fact, the mainstream candidates are all about increasing crime, this precisely to "support" their exploitative efforts (a criminal record means you're stuck doing some lousy job...).
Right..., ...tell me DUFUS, how crazzzy is a society where crime actually pays pretty damn good for your ordinary businessmen (employer of the illegal alien)--with absolutely no threat, whatsoever, of penalty...
GOOD JOB--we're all suffering because of "ineffectual government," still, people turn their back on the one candidate who's actually done some honest, good work here...
Posted by: Michael L. Wagner on 04/17/08 at 12:55 PM Respond
Perhaps some of the voters in Michigan simply prefer Nader because, unlike Clinton and Obama, he is truly a "progressive" candidate rather than one who is simply appealing to that sentiment.
Anyway, given how the 2004 election went here in Michigan, it will probably be very difficult for Nader to get on the ballot. It also wouldn't surprise me if the Democrats actively campaigned to keep him off while the Republicans campaign for his ballot access.
Electoral politics in this country are a joke.
Posted by: velo on 04/18/08 at 12:27 PM Respond
Folk aren't going to vote for Nader because the Dems aren't going to seat delegates from Michigan. They're going to vote for Nader because he stands for the right things most of the time, whereas the Democrats capitulate to the worst in our country time after time. Hillary has voted with the Republicans on issue after issue. Jeremiah Wright would be preferable to Obama. It's Nader or McKinney by default.
Posted by: out of the loop on 04/18/08 at 10:31 PM Respond
Dem's threw progressives under the bus 3+ decades ago. Clinton's admin. cemented this fact. Progressives became just "dem voters' over the yrs, and are fooled into fearing "nader" of all people, instead of a party that DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THEM! Obama has embraced SOME of the progressive agenda, and therefore runs stronger than HRC. Nader doesn't run to win, but runs to give us ANOTHER CHANCE to be real activists, which is more important than campaign pandering prejudices. The 'people' in the dem. party and NOT the politicians are to blame for the last 30 yrs. We have been continually fooled into playing a 'lesser-of-2-evil' game, because corporations TELL US TO ACT THIS WAY! Hence, more evil...
My WARNING would be this fact... the Dem Party OWES you NOTHING, and KNOWS you have nowhere to run to... because people don't really care much beyond MSM personality gossip, and celebrity politics. This is nothing new to many of you, but it needs restated again. The 2006 Dem's didn't ACT, because Pelosi and Co. crawled out the same slime that has been the Dem party for decades. People were 'shocked'? I would say naive, and ignorant of recent history.
Posted by: OrganizersWin on 04/21/08 at 9:24 AM Respond
Ralph Nader for President!!! Forget about Mccain, Obama, Clinton, they're as corrupt as they come. Vote Nader for real change, simple as that. I just wish Kucinich was still in the race...
Posted by: wiscoman on 05/29/08 at 10:23 PM Respond
I went to a Ralph Nader event in Providence.
This guy is amazing!
Afterwards it was great to meet him in person, shake his hand, and talked with him briefly. Try doing that with "Superstar" Barack or "Superstar" McCain.No one even asks Barack why he touted a Bush-like preemptive military policy to bomb inside Pakistan without their permission if he saw it to be fit. No one asks Barack why he voted for every single Iraq Holocaust funding appropriation that contradicts his rhetoric. You won't get near these "superstars" unless you've already dropped 100K into their campaign coffers or become part of a staged event for their benefit.
I challenge anyone who has doubts about Ralph to go to one of his events, ask him the toughest questions you can muster and listen to his response. This guy is thoughtful and thorough and tough.
Unlike Barack, and Hillary and John McCain. Ralph fielded tough questions and answered in great detail about single payer Candadian style government healthcare, a living wage, tackling corporate crime, impeaching Bush, gambling addiction vs. school budget, halting torture, a timeline for getting out of Iraq and bringing citizens into knowledgable activist positions to restore our democracy.
Two weeks ago Nader stood out in front of the White House and called for the impeachment of Cheney and Bush.This guy's got courage! I am convinced that Ralph Nader has +MORE+ courage than the entire Democratic and Republican establishment.Why are they so afraid of impeaching Bush/Cheney and reestablishing the rule of law?
Its no wonder people are becoming Independents and leaving the Democratic and Republican Parties.
These parties have practically no public allegiance in serving the good for our nation. Their primary interest (judged by their voting record and broken promises and hypocracy)is to preserve their own power and sell off our nation to faithless multinational corporations who have no genuine allegiance to American values or society or the public.
Take my challenge. Go to a Nader event and see if you walk away unimpressed. My guess is that your faith in democracy will be restored and you'll realize an excellent choice for president will be available to counter the corporate parties.
The latest AP poll puts him at 6% among registered Republicans and Democrats. Among Independents, he probably is much higher. Probably 60-90%.
Those who say Nader cannot win are merely echoing the disparaging rhetoric of the Democrat and Republican Parties.Looking at the example of Ross Perot who had much less courage and experience in 1992 gives me great hope in the democratic process and ability of the American people to recognize and make changes for the better in their elected officials.
Posted by: PublicAdvocate on 06/08/08 at 8:35 AM Respond
How terrible! Nader takes as much from Republicans as from Democrats!
Posted by: CFL-CTA on 07/17/08 at 10:07 AM Respond
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Posted by: Clara Jeffery on 04/16/08 at 10:10 AM Respond