Matthew Israel Interviewed by Jennifer Gonnerman
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JG: Did your parents or your dad have any kind of punishment policy when you were a kid? Were you ever punished? Disciplined?
MI: I think I was spanked a couple of times. I was put in a room in a kind of time-out for losing privileges.
JG: Was it emphasized at all?
MI: Oh no, it was just normal. I was very fortunate in family life. They were very good to me, very good to me.
JG: What kind of lawyer was your dad?
MI: It was just a general practice. He did a lot of corporate law and real estate.
JG: You were telling me about Brandon yesterday and the SIBIS practice and the decision to take this one yourself…
MI: We started the program in '71, and the procedures we used were the spank, muscle squeeze, water spray, and pinch.
JG: Were these things others were doing, or did you come up with them yourself? The spank, the water spray…
MI: The spank has been going on since time began. Aromatic ammonia was a procedure that was used, where you break a vial of ammonia under the nose. You do find a lot of these in the literature of the '60s and '70s and '80s—more so then, because it has become so politically incorrect. What you'll also find is the skin shock. They would use a cattle prod. My consulting psychiatrist would say, "Why don't you use the skin shock? It's so much cleaner." I was frightened to get into that because that seemed too big a step. People could understand a spank because everyone has probably received one in their life, but no one had received a deliberate electric shock. You had to get ahold of the student and that could result in a struggle. And injuries did occur in those struggles. All the injuries that the staff were getting built up, and around '89 and '90, this new device called the SIBIS came about…That plus the frustration of seeing so many injuries led me to say, "Let's give this a try."
JG: You were telling me about a time when you were giving Brandon four or five thousand shocks but it didn't work.
MI: It was in automatic negative reinforcement mode, which means you saw that he had a bandaged arm. He was hitting his head as well as spitting and vomiting. He had to hold his hands on a switch, and while he held his hand on the switch, he would not get a shock, and if he took them off, he would receive about one per second. Unfortunately it wasn't strong enough. He would keep taking his hands off. At this point you have to realize I thought his life was in the balance. I couldn't find any medical solution. He was vomiting, losing weight. He was down to 52 pounds. I knew it was risky to use the shock in large numbers but I had to weigh that against…If I persevered that day, I thought maybe it would eventually work. There was nothing else I could think of to do to keep him from these behaviors. But by the time it went into the 3,000 or 4,000 applications, it became obvious it wasn't working, so we gave up. Nobody was actually administering it. It would happen only if he took his hand off. He would be shocked in the arm and leg. The problem that day was that the shock was too minor; it was of no effect. It wasn't even strong enough to make him want to stop it.
JG: Was this the turning point in the development of the GED?
MI: Yes.
JG: How do you know how strong the GED should be?
MI: There was no standard. It's hard; the literature each give a different description of devices that had been used. We knew what SIBIS was and we wanted it to be…to feel two to three times stronger than that. In the literature some of the durations had been as long as two to three seconds. So I chose two seconds.
JG: Tell me about the first time you used the GED.
MI: There was one student. I forget his name. Brandon was the second.
JG: Would you use it yourself on Brandon?
MI: Yes, we had a remote and we administered it. It was always used with a remote control.
JG: And at what point was the GED-4 created?
MI: The mid-'90s.
JG: And why did you develop the GED-4?
MI: Because some students had adapted to the GED. You can adapt to aversive conditions and procedures. The body is made that way. Odors, for example, are aversive at first, but the body adapts. That happens, unfortunately, with many kinds of punishment as well.
JG: Have people adapted to the GED-4? Is there a need for a GED-8?
MI: I don't think so. It hasn't happened, fortunately. I wouldn't rule it out—it could happen, but it's so effective. It's not used very often. You see, the more effective something it is, the fewer times it is used, and the less the chance of adaptation. So it's conceivable, but not likely.
JG: Have you ever used the GED-4 on yourself?
MI: Yes.
JG: What does it feel like?
MI: It's very painful.
JG: How many times have you tried it?
MI: A couple.
JG: That was enough?
MI: Yes. I demonstrated the GED-1 for a reporter and he wanted me to show him the GED-4, but fortunately he changed his mind. Must the surgeon demonstrate surgery on himself?
Photo: Larry Sultan
