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Matthew Israel Interviewed by Jennifer Gonnerman

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JG: Did your parents or your dad have any kind of punishment policy when you were a kid? Were you ever punished? Disciplined?

MI: I think I was spanked a couple of times. I was put in a room in a kind of time-out for losing privileges.

JG: Was it emphasized at all?

MI: Oh no, it was just normal. I was very fortunate in family life. They were very good to me, very good to me.

JG: What kind of lawyer was your dad?

MI: It was just a general practice. He did a lot of corporate law and real estate.

JG: You were telling me about Brandon yesterday and the SIBIS practice and the decision to take this one yourself…

MI: We started the program in '71, and the procedures we used were the spank, muscle squeeze, water spray, and pinch.

JG: Were these things others were doing, or did you come up with them yourself? The spank, the water spray…

MI: The spank has been going on since time began. Aromatic ammonia was a procedure that was used, where you break a vial of ammonia under the nose. You do find a lot of these in the literature of the '60s and '70s and '80s—more so then, because it has become so politically incorrect. What you'll also find is the skin shock. They would use a cattle prod. My consulting psychiatrist would say, "Why don't you use the skin shock? It's so much cleaner." I was frightened to get into that because that seemed too big a step. People could understand a spank because everyone has probably received one in their life, but no one had received a deliberate electric shock. You had to get ahold of the student and that could result in a struggle. And injuries did occur in those struggles. All the injuries that the staff were getting built up, and around '89 and '90, this new device called the SIBIS came about…That plus the frustration of seeing so many injuries led me to say, "Let's give this a try."

JG: You were telling me about a time when you were giving Brandon four or five thousand shocks but it didn't work.

MI: It was in automatic negative reinforcement mode, which means you saw that he had a bandaged arm. He was hitting his head as well as spitting and vomiting. He had to hold his hands on a switch, and while he held his hand on the switch, he would not get a shock, and if he took them off, he would receive about one per second. Unfortunately it wasn't strong enough. He would keep taking his hands off. At this point you have to realize I thought his life was in the balance. I couldn't find any medical solution. He was vomiting, losing weight. He was down to 52 pounds. I knew it was risky to use the shock in large numbers but I had to weigh that against…If I persevered that day, I thought maybe it would eventually work. There was nothing else I could think of to do to keep him from these behaviors. But by the time it went into the 3,000 or 4,000 applications, it became obvious it wasn't working, so we gave up. Nobody was actually administering it. It would happen only if he took his hand off. He would be shocked in the arm and leg. The problem that day was that the shock was too minor; it was of no effect. It wasn't even strong enough to make him want to stop it.

JG: Was this the turning point in the development of the GED?

MI: Yes.

JG: How do you know how strong the GED should be?

MI: There was no standard. It's hard; the literature each give a different description of devices that had been used. We knew what SIBIS was and we wanted it to be…to feel two to three times stronger than that. In the literature some of the durations had been as long as two to three seconds. So I chose two seconds.

JG: Tell me about the first time you used the GED.

MI: There was one student. I forget his name. Brandon was the second.

JG: Would you use it yourself on Brandon?

MI: Yes, we had a remote and we administered it. It was always used with a remote control.

JG: And at what point was the GED-4 created?

MI: The mid-'90s.

JG: And why did you develop the GED-4?

MI: Because some students had adapted to the GED. You can adapt to aversive conditions and procedures. The body is made that way. Odors, for example, are aversive at first, but the body adapts. That happens, unfortunately, with many kinds of punishment as well.

JG: Have people adapted to the GED-4? Is there a need for a GED-8?

MI: I don't think so. It hasn't happened, fortunately. I wouldn't rule it out—it could happen, but it's so effective. It's not used very often. You see, the more effective something it is, the fewer times it is used, and the less the chance of adaptation. So it's conceivable, but not likely.

JG: Have you ever used the GED-4 on yourself?

MI: Yes.

JG: What does it feel like?

MI: It's very painful.

JG: How many times have you tried it?

MI: A couple.

JG: That was enough?

MI: Yes. I demonstrated the GED-1 for a reporter and he wanted me to show him the GED-4, but fortunately he changed his mind. Must the surgeon demonstrate surgery on himself?

Photo: Larry Sultan


 

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I have posted an extensive response to Ms. Gonnerman's article under the main article at http://motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/school_of_shock.html. And for a fully formatted version of my response to Ms.Gonnerman's article, please see http://www.judgerc.org/ResponsetoGonnermanArticle.pdf Matthew L. Israel, Ph.D. Executive Director Judge Rotenberg Educational Center
Posted by:Matthew L. IsraelAugust 24, 2007 12:31:04 AMRespond ^
Please see my response at: http://motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/school_of_shock.html
Posted by:Ilana Slaff, M.D.August 24, 2007 10:28:31 AMRespond ^
That's a nice load of ego-inflating crap, but you're still going to get owned.
Posted by:Luke StephensAugust 24, 2007 1:17:02 PMRespond ^
WHAT THE [deleted].
Posted by:August 24, 2007 1:42:36 PMRespond ^
LOL
Posted by:anonAugust 24, 2007 2:27:19 PMRespond ^
Re. the evolution of JRC from Skinner: Something about that time, I'm not sure what it was, created a hotbed for these types of places. There were a lot of new ideas floating around about the human psyche, and people tried mucking around with those ideas, for whatever reasons... perhaps some of them were even good-intentioned. I guess some people thought they could apply these ideas to solving some of the "problems of the day," e.g., straightening up the "errant and wayward youth" and turning them into productive citizens. It would seem that the idea that one's teenage years are, by definition, turbulent times fraught with stress and filled with a modicum of experimentation, had not yet been accepted as not necessarily a bad thing. Apparently it still isn't. ...Matthew Israel appears to have escaped close scrutiny of his methods and ideology since he focused on a small subset of youth, namely, self-abusing and mentally disturbed individuals whose parents felt they had no other alternative. His target clientele in the early days weren't exactly able to speak for themselves. Now that the Judge Rotenberg Center has started to target more mainstream malcontents, be it for reasons of greed or myopia, we are starting to hear stories of what life is really like there. May the sunlight of this current exposure prove to be the requisite disinfectant needed to put these atavistic barbaric cruelties to rest.
Posted by:UrsusAugust 25, 2007 12:15:12 PMRespond ^
Pigeons and rats .... behavioural psychologists are sadists and since when did a 'slap' on the cheek develop into electroshock torture? Is this evil stupid idiot jewish or what?
Posted by:DaftAidaSeptember 6, 2007 1:38:41 PMRespond ^
"He loved Big Brother. He had always loved Big Brother." ----George Orwell's 1984
Posted by:Jake DonovanSeptember 8, 2007 10:44:06 AMRespond ^
Yeah. Mickey Mouse's a good, funny cite for backdrop to pain and discomfort. Kinda like the playing of the Beatles' Yellow Submarine during excruciating torture in South America recently set forth in documentary "We Have Ways of Making You Talk" on Link T.V.
Posted by:Jake DonovanSeptember 8, 2007 11:16:39 AMRespond ^
My foregoing comments were posted on an initial misunderstanding that each related to the particular page I was then reading and found the opportunity-for-comment box thereunder. My previous comments would make more sense taken in that context. For example, my citation to Orwell's famous concluding lines to 1984, if read in the context of "Katie's" purportedly willing endorsements of Israel's methodology. Similarly, the analogy to Beatles' song w/i context of article's referenced posting of mickey mouse posters within Israel's facility. But, now, in conclusion. I feel obliged to counter Israel's rather disingenous references to his organization's--and it was HIS operation, however much the corporate zig-zagging undoubtedly permitted by law consterns such attribution--CALIFORNIA experience. My then employment for the State of California in Sacramento's headquarters' offices (I am now retired after more than 30 years employment) of various agencies informs my recollection here. And, such recollection follows hereinafter: Operations conducted under the aegis of Behavioral Research Institute (BRI) were centered at a licensed facility on Zelzah Avenue in Northridge, CA. That facility, similar to those in this article, specialized in severely involved clients suffering "developmental disability(ies)" per (then) Calif. Welf. & Inst. Code Section 4512. This statutory definition included both autism and mental retardation, among other specified conditions subsumed under the rubric "developmental disability". After receipt of more than a single complaint, both the funding agency (North L.A. Regional Center, an entity dispensing state funds via contract with the State Dept. of Developmental Services) and licensing authority (viz., the Dept. of Social Services' Community Care Licensing Division) commenced investigations of the Northridge facility and its practices. Said practices were not appreciably different from those still employed and embraced according to Israel's avowals in this article. At least one death, and (if memory serves, perhaps another) occurred at the Northridge facility DURING implementation of BRI containment "treatment intervention(s)". (One such technique involved many staff members "bringing down" a single client and rolling said client up in a lengthy piece of carpet/rug. This, of course, was defended as being for the client's "own good.") Similarly, as in the instances cited in this article, sundry "satisfied customers" (i.e., parents--never the mostly non-verbal BRI "clients/residents" themselves--were presented in "defense" of expressed agency concerns. Competent (assumedly costly) lawyers were also enlisted by BRI. Ultimately, at least one significantly lengthy appellate decision was rendered by the courts. (A published decision, this cannot be too hard to obtain a cite for by any paralegal/law clerk interested in doing so; I simply do not have the capacity here at my desk.) The facility was ultimately DE-licensed (although, as things legal go, it may well have been officially deemed a "surrender" by the licensee, as lawyers worked out all the fine points) and DE-funded by California agency action. Finally, as I recollect (and everything I assert here is in good faith predicated upon solely the recollections of an aged man [me] long after the fact!), the entire matter was "resolved" without any guilt/fault findings and essentially with an agreement that Israel's minions would no longer seek California public monies nor the official sanction of licensure while practicing such "theraputic" approaches as had brought the entire matter to a head in the first instance. In short, Israel's practices were effectively disapproved and put out of business in California insofar as taxpayers' dollars were concerned. In consequence, as Israel hedgingly ackknowledges in this article, his type of "therapy" with defenseless "developmentally disabled" clientele as employed at the Northridge BRI facility no longer is funded nor officially sanctioned in Calif.--notwithstanding his referenced reminant at the Tobin facility. As everywhere else where Irael's tax-paid practices have been challenged, he successfully enlisted the support of various politicos in seeking to defeat his rejection in California. It appears to always be predicated upon certain parents' assessments of the efficaciousness in his methods. These parents may, or may not, be lawfully authorized to surrender their progeny's rights to bodily integrity, which Israel's methods entail. And, at least in California, a parent of adult children must be authorized by a court before being legally able to consent to such "treatment". Hard won statutory acknowlegements of the personal rights possessed by persons with disabilities are apparent in California. (I am unfamiliar with status in other states of the union.) Specifically, the Calif. Legislature has long averred that persons with mental or developmental disabilities are entitled to precisely the same rights as all other persons. (See Calif. Welf. & Inst. Code sections 4201/4202, 5325.1) Nevertheless, as the Calif. State Supreme Court found necessary to remind, this statutory acknowledgment is (quoting from memory alone) "but a legislative affirmation of long established constitutional principle." (In re Irene Hop ___Cal.3d _____) Given Israel's continued operations, it may well be nigh time to have such constitutional (state AND federal) reasserted on behalf of those whom others provide "consent" to have "treated" in such avowedly painful manner. Yeah, I know. Lotsa luck with the Roberts, et al., courts today. Hah!
Posted by:Jake DonovanSeptember 8, 2007 2:02:17 PMRespond ^
The Gulag Business is the second largest industry in America. They make parents pay while they torture and kill kids. 10,000 to 20,000 kids are caught in this system each year. Everyone involved should be prosecuted.
Posted by:ALDecember 6, 2007 11:06:01 PMRespond ^
your left should be your own left
Posted by:gerald bauskeJanuary 9, 2008 7:36:12 PMRespond ^
I noticed that this blog is 99.9% anti-JRC. I urge all parents who have children at JRC who benefit from this life-saving treatment as well as current/former students who benefit from this life-saving treatment come forward and try to set the story strait. I do worn you however, that when you post pro-JRC/pro-Mathew Israel comments on this blog, that you will probably be greated with tons of derogatory responses as you understand and support a treatment that sadly, just about the entire world opposes. I urge you not to be intimidated by such derogatory greetings and that you don't reply to such greetings.
Posted by:JRC SUPPORTERMarch 13, 2008 1:53:10 PMRespond ^

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