There's Something About Mary: Unmasking a Gun Lobby Mole
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Shocked to learn that McFate was a spy, gun control advocates have pondered the obvious questions: How did she manage to fool everyone for so long? How much money did she earn for being a mole? To whom in the gun lobby did she report? The NRA? The firearms manufacturing industry? Did her covert effort extend beyond mere intelligence gathering? Did she manage to shape the decisions and actions of anti-gun groups to the gun lobby's liking? And was she the only one?
While Sapone was a spy with a big secret, as McFate she led a relatively high-profile life. In Sarasota, Florida, McFate heads the local chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution. She has served as a substitute teacher at a local military academy, and once joined a coalition of residents who fought to save a 112-acre forest from development. Several years ago, McFate cofounded an organization called Lead Our Leaders, which boasted the "audacious mission" of changing "the way politics is done in America" by creating "a mechanism for the American electorate to effectively communicate their policy instructions to our elected leaders." A 2005 profile of her in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune began, "Mary McFate wants to save the world." (She told the paper, "I'm an optimist by nature.") During a short-lived attempt at blogging, she wrote a small number of postings using the handle "SolutionGal" and touted her Lead Our Leaders effort. (She stopped blogging in February 2006, and the website of Lead Our Leaders is no longer active.)
Sapone's earliest known private intelligence operation occurred in the mid-1980s, when she served as an operative for Perceptions International, a Connecticut-based security firm. Working for Perceptions, which has since been shuttered, she infiltrated the animal rights community for US Surgical Corporation, a target of activists who objected to its testing on dogs. According to a 1989 article in New England Business, Sapone appeared on the animal rights scene in 1986 and quickly became "involved in at least a half dozen animal rights groups." She "made a point of getting to know all of the key people in the movement," and "traveled around the country to most protests, meetings and conferences." At meetings, activists would later say, Sapone advocated taking illegal or violent action to advance the movement. She befriended a 33-year-old activist named Fran Trutt, who in November 1988 would be arrested for planting a remote-controlled pipe bomb near the parking space of US Surgical chairman Leon Hirsch. According to Trutt, on her way to carry out the bombing she lost her nerve and placed a call to Sapone, who convinced her to follow through with the plan—a fact that prompted activists to accuse Sapone of acting as an agent provocateur. (Another Perceptions International operative, Marcus Mead, drove Trutt to US Surgical on the day of the attempted bombing.)
In the 1990s—while working within the gun control community as McFate—Sapone formed her own intelligence-gathering business. And she enlisted family members for its operations. "In our business, it's my daughter-in-law, Montgomery Sapone [who] does all the analytic reports, forecasting, and white papers," Sapone wrote to a client in an August 1999 email obtained by Mother Jones. "She produces a very professional product." Sapone continued, "We are warning our clients that activist groups are moving towards ballot initiatives…And it's easy for groups like Greenpeace to emotionally shape a looming crisis in a 10 second TV spot 2 days before a referenda election. My daughter Shelley specializes in that aspect of our business. We are doing a lot of work now to help clients in the 2000 election."
A resume that Montgomery Sapone used around 1999 describes her role within Mary Lou's business: "Collect and analyze intelligence on European activities of major international environmental organization for a company specializing in domestic and international opposition research, special investigations, issues management and threat assessment. Write weekly intelligence update on European animal rights and eco-terrorist activity. Assist in confidential litigation support research." Sapone's son Sean, a Brown- and Harvard-educated paratrooper who served with the 82nd Airborne Division, was managing director of this firm, which at one point was called Strategic Solutions Group LLC and maintained an office in Washington, DC. According to a Strategic Solutions Group invoice sent to BBI in November 2000, Montgomery Sapone—a Harvard law school grad and Yale-trained anthropologist—once billed the security firm $400 for four hours of her time, which included a "visit to target's office."
Sapone made her gun control work a family affair as well. Around 2003, Montgomery volunteered at the Brady Campaign, according to Becca Knox, the group's research director. Occasionally, Montgomery would also sit in for her mother-in-law at Washington strategy meetings attended by officials of the gun control movement, according to the Violence Policy Center's Kristen Rand. And Sean Sapone once offered to help Rand's group on a campaign against the civilian use of .50 caliber rifles, Rand recalls. But after attending one meeting, Sean Sapone never followed through.
These days, Sean and Montgomery Sapone are better known as Sean and Montgomery McFate, a successful Washington couple whose current bios make no mention of any past intelligence-gathering or opposition-research work. Sean is currently the program director of the national security initiative at the Bipartisan Policy Center, a Washington think tank boasting an advisory board composed of four former Senate majority leaders: Howard Baker, Bob Dole, George Mitchell, and Tom Daschle. An expert on military affairs, he previously worked for Amnesty International and for military contractor DynCorp. According to an online biography, he helped to organize "the first major legal arms shipment to Liberia in 15 years." Montgomery has made a name for herself as one of the primary architects of the US military's human terrain program, which teams social scientists with military units in Iraq and Afghanistan to help soldiers better understand the local culture. (The controversial program has been sharply criticized by the American Anthropological Association, which fears it may cross an ethical line, and has been described by detractors as "mercenary anthropology.") Now a top Pentagon adviser, Montgomery also contributed to the Army's Counterinsurgency Field Manual drafted under the guidance of General David Petraeus.
Montgomery McFate did not respond to an email request for comment. Nor did Mary Lou Sapone's daughter, Shelley McGonnigal. During a brief phone call, Sean McFate told Mother Jones, "I'm familiar with what you are doing. But I don't want to talk to the media." Asked to explain his mother's double life as Mary McFate and Mary Lou Sapone, he said, "You have to talk to Mary Lou." Then he hung up.
James Ridgeway, Daniel Schulman, and David Corn are reporters in Mother Jones' Washington, DC, bureau.
Photo from Mary McFate's blog.

They already had been, long before Mary came along to rub their easily duped noses in it.
That's why they believe what they believe in the first place, and nothing like Facts will ever make a dent in "The Faith".
Our Constitution is hanging by a thread under the Bush/Cheney regime. This is certainly no time to be blathering about gun control! Wake-up!!!
Just as the Bruce Falconer "Semi-Automatic For the People" aka: "Bush to Cops - Drop Dead" article proves the same about the gun control lobby.
At least Mary wasn't passing off misinformation, hyperbole and downright lies to the public, calling it "Journalism".
Did she do anything (demonstrably) illegal? Can these gun control groups file criminal or civil charges?
When was the last time civilians with guns won their "freedom" from a tyranical government?
Happened in the USA as recently as 1946.
Read and learn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
Why does Mary Lou hate America so much? Snark, snark
I just really fail to understand how business can consider themselves ethical and/or good for this nation and its people if they do thes type of things just to protect their bottom line. It would seem to me that the issue really lies in the power with which groups and business who hire the likes of Mary Lou feel they need to use operatives to gather information which keeps them in business. IF Americans want change and we ask our businesses and communites/governments to change then what does it mean to the public to find out that all of our efforts were for not because some intelligence gathering and back room meetings decided the future that we will have ot live with.
Allow people to buy all the guns they want. Make ammunition illegal.
Sure.
It's bound to work at least as well as making heroin & marijuana illegal.
Work well at making millionaires out of criminals willing to deal in an illegal article, that is.
Prohibition ALWAYS works.
Just not the way the proponents BELIEVE it's going to work.
If you can illustrate that the seven shootings (or even ONE of them) were committed with guns legally bought and held in DC AFTER the S.C. ruling, I'll eat my pistol grips.
What I'm trying to imply is that the Nazi death camps and Pol Pot's reign of terror do NOT happen to generally well armed populations.
I AM impressed!
If you see her, go ahead and try it.
I'm bettin' she's packin'.
And I'm bettin' you're a big-mouthed panzy hiding safely behind his keyboard and monitor.
What gun do you have to stand up to the US military? That is a complete joke.
Only 992 years till Y3K!
"Firearms are a necessary check-and-balance against tyrannical governments.
Our Constitution is hanging by a thread under the Bush/Cheney regime. This is certainly no time to be blathering about gun control! Wake-up!!! "
The people who hire them must be stopped. These are the people who make more money than God, and nothing is beyond their ability to pay for anything they want. Ethics is for suckers.
All the pro gun comments here are idiotic, Its Perfectly Obvious et al are just proto Jim D. Adkissons, looking for some gay unitarians to beat up on.
And the guy threatening violence needs to be banned.
PS they cant confiscate your guns, the supreme court ruled on it, so stf about hitler.
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/athens.htm
Short of firearms and ammunition, the GIs scoured the county to find them. By borrowing keys to the National Guard and State Guard armories, they got three M-1 rifles, five .45 semi-automatic pistols and 24 British Enfield rifles. The armories were nearly empty after the war's end. By 8 p.m. a group of GIs and "local boys" headed for the jail but left the back door unguarded to give the jail's defenders an easy way out.
So they used National Guard weapons and ammunition. How does this bolster your argument?
I'd refer you to that cause celebre of the left known as the Spanish Civil War. Sure, Franco won in the end - but it took him a while. It would have been a lot quicker with sticks and stones though.
Me, protecting my family and home is paramount, as I know in civil insurrection (riot), the government will not be there for me. Any one who believes otherwise is a fool, who didn't see what happened in the Watts riots.
And yes a few handguns will do that job nicely.
"Shocked to learn that McFate was a spy, gun control advocates have pondered the obvious questions:...To whom in the gun lobby did she report? The NRA? The firearms manufacturing industry?"
Do you recall what the original question was?
"When was the last time civilians with guns won their "freedom" from a tyranical government?"
It didn't stipulate that all the guns used had to be owned by those who used them against tyrants.
They were "short of" guns, not "without" guns. So they went and got more and did what needed doing.
Our Revolution against England found us short of guns, too. So we took a lot of them from the Brits.
It's still citizens with guns, overthrowing tyrannical government, any way you slice it.
I think this supports the difference between the right and left. The left tends to be honest and work within the system while the right tends to use extremes, deceipt and violence.
Uh yeah, the populace needs guns to keep check on the government. Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what the US military and the US police forces have at their disposal? Have you seen the latest developements in crowd control? We wouldn't stand a chance if the military was used against the populace. The Zulu's had it better against British (or was it the Boers? don't remember). The point is the best weapons we could come up with wouldn't stand a chance against our current armed forces.
I believe in the right to bear arms. But the reason of standing against a corrupt or tyrannical government just doesn't work anymore.
You can't stop people like this. No matter how much violence you promise them!
The people who hire them must be stopped. These are the people who make more money than God, and nothing is beyond their ability to pay for anything they want. Ethics is for suckers.
-Pheed Yirhed,
You would not be talking about the small / marginally profitable businesses that manufacture firearms, Would you?
Our Constitution is hanging by a thread under the Bush/Cheney regime. This is certainly no time to be blathering about gun control! Wake-up!!!
Posted by:Truth"
Yes, because your glock and a few rifles are going to do anything against a FREAKING TANK and BOMBERS. Idiot.
The reason why they can infiltrate OUR ranks is that we need volunteers and have open meetings, and because they have tons of money to throw at these things.
On the other hand, The People do not have extra time and money laying around to throw at covert operations....AND you cannot get into their world. There is no volunteering, no open meetings. There is only Assassin's Pay for the unconnected. For the connected there is the patronage system and nepotism.
Posted by Jason
Right. Like the men and women in the US Airforce are willingly going to bomb Omaha.
As if the US Army's tank divisions are going to flatten their parents homes in Cleveland.
Moron.
Seventh in a Series: The Rise of the Counterinsurgents
http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/women-prominent-in
Gun control is an idiotic notion. Whatever laws get passed serve only to control and limit those of us who purchase firearms through the proper legal channels. It accomplishes nothing for those who seek to obtain weapons illegally.
It's just more short-sighted political posturing that does nothing but waste time and money.
We have far bigger problems facing our nation than gun control. Please get off this soapbox and focus on something relevant!
According to Bill Clinton's Justice Department, 108,000 times each year, armed citizens protect themselves from crimes. (though they admit that other studies yielded considerably higher estimates)
www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf
Their statistics:
108,000 times per year.
296 times per day.
12 times per hour.
Once every 5 minutes.
But I guess that isn't important.
The conservatives in this thread are defending a criminal. Typical. Easily duped by George Bush all these years and they still refuse to see the light.
Are the Gun Banning groups afraid they might get caught doing something illegal?
A little sunshine is good for them.
This spy, as you call her, has done nothing illegal. She joined some group and reported what she found. There is nothing against the law in that.
How many McCain volunteers are really Obama spies?
Probably lots of them.
This is a non-story, except it is fun to read about these groups trying to get a leg up on the other. I'm sure Sarah Brady reads the NRA's monthly magazine and goes to their website regularly. If she doesn't, she's a fool.
On second thought, maybe she doesn't read their magazine.
Peacebuilding: A Global Imperative
It is essential that the United States, working with the international community, play an active part in preventing, managing, and resolving conflicts. Fragile states, ethnic and religious strife, extremism, competition for scarce resources and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction all pose significant challenges to peace. The resulting suffering and destabilization of societies make effective forms of managing conflict imperative. The United States Institute of Peace (USIP) is dedicated to meeting this imperative in new and innovative ways.
Montgomery McFate
http://www.usip.org/specialists/bios/archives/mcfate.html
Nationbuilding, the way the US Gov't thinks your nation ought to be.
Bill Clinton ought to love it.
Note that we will find you even if you are wearing your aluminum foil beanies.
That is all.
I love it when whiners show up to pizz & moan about how the 4 million members of the NRA consistently outvote the other 142 Million voters in America.
Or that the 4 million members wield such enormous influence in government that the other 142 Million American voters can't overcome it.
Give that crap a rest. It just exposes you for the fools you are.
If it's worth doing, then it's worth doing right.
["Most most killings are of someone the gun owner knows."]
Gee... Wilbur, I wonder if most people murdered with knives aren't murdered by someone they know???
Or: I wonder if most people who are murdered aren't done in by someone they know???
All of Which proves All of What?
All our tanks, APCs and aircraft do little to defeat a lightly armed enemy in Iraq. Relatively small groups have routinely prevented our armed forces from asserting control over villages and cities, forcing our withdrawl.
In 1994 Rwanda was a "gun free zone". Did that help to protect the Tutsis?
It's 1960 and you're a poor African-American family in the South. Would you trust the local sheriff to protect you?
It's 1935 and you're a Jewish family in Poland... would it be it a good idea to leave your family's defense to the armed forces of your country?
Don't say it can't happen again. It can't happen here. We're safe now. Our freedome is complete and permanent. Liberty requires vigilance, because the forces that would crush it are always hungry.
1. I'm less worried that the NRA worked with this woman and more worried that corporations are hiring spies. Corporations are fast becoming more powerful than the government, something Abraham Lincoln and other national leaders of the past warned us against, and it seems like the right-wingers don't even care. Except they do, if you read their literature, as long as corporate attention is not focused on *them.*
2. Count me as another gun rights supporter and a... liberal? progressive? left-winger? I'm not sure what I am anymore, the libs are embarrassing me more and more. But here's the thing. A little consistency please. You think drug prohibition is a bad idea but you're for gun prohibition. You're for safer sex but you're not for teaching gun safety. I come from a rural family that taught its kids from an early age how to deal safely with guns. Look at the reports of gun violence between kids or just the accidents and you'll find a staggering majority of them happen among suburban and city kids. HM.
3. As for you gun nuts out there from the right wing: Want to know why I don't side with you? Because you use sexist slurs to describe people who want to ban guns. Excuse me, I'm a woman and pro-gun. You just alienated me. Great job there, troglodytes. This is why liberal men get laid and you don't. Try a little respect next time. Respect doesn't kill people. Irate armed feminist women kill people. But not as often as crazy armed men do.
The second amendment says: "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the preservation of the Free State, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
The states have a responsibility to regulate gun ownership. Everyone in the U.S. should be born with the right to own a gun, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they get to keep that right. Gun ownership is a right AND a privilege. If you demonstrate irresponsibility, you should be stripped of that right.
Ex.: A child accidentally kills someone or themselves with their parents' gun. The parents demonstrated a lack of responsibility, so the state they live in has the right to take away their guns. Fair is fair.
"Corporations are fast becoming more powerful than the government, something Abraham Lincoln and other national leaders of the past warned us against, and it seems like the right-wingers don't even care. Except they do, if you read their literature, as long as corporate attention is not focused on *them.*"
That last sentence should read, "Except they do, if you read their literature, if corporate attention is focused negatively on *them.*"
Because the right-wingers could use a little logical and ethical consistency themselves, y'know? Right or left, we're all Americans here, and none of us benefit when corporations control our lives.
Start with checking some of the top dogs in the Democratic Party in Florida and you will find a Republican posing as a Democrat.
It's all really kind of wierd, because nobody seriously wants to disarm the American people. Their are plenty of Dems, like myself who own guns and support a reasonable interprtation of the 2nd Amendment. But yuou can't talk to any of these one issue folks. The irony is that if any American government tries to take away our liberty all indications point to it being a rightwing administration such as Nixon or Bush.
The problem with the Democratic leadership is they are too fainthearted to stand up to Republican bullies such as Bush and Cheney. Look for another stolen election.
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2005, 477,040 victims of violent crimes stated that they faced an offender with a firearm. (to be clear, the offender was armed)
Incidents involving a firearm represented 9% of the 4.7 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault in 2005. (that's around 420,000 incidents)
The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 66% of the 16,137 murders in 2004 were committed with firearms.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm
According to the CDC:
In 2005, 30,694 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States (Tables 18–20), accounting for 17.7 percent of all injury deaths in 2005.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_10.pdf
Also that 108,000 number cited earlier, beside being a decade old, was cherry-picked out of the study. Researchers said the use of guns as protection is generally over-stated in surveys because of false-positives. Please read the study.
"Gun Nuts" know American history, and they know that is exactly how we came to BE America, and not the western edge of the British empire.
By standing up to the most powerful military machine the world had ever seen, with guns, and sending the surviving tyrants back to England.
I've read the study. Maybe you should.
Their comment about the 108,000 number was that DGU's (defensive gun uses) were "rare indeed", at 108,000 per year.
Their claim was that OTHER studies overstated the DGU's. But NOT Theirs!
If you've got more recent figures from the Justice department or FBI on Defensive Gun Uses anually, feel free to present them.
Thanks for playing!
**
Josh Sugarmann, the head of the Violence Policy Center's FFL number:
1-54-000-01-8C-00725
Mother Jones should call ATF and verify if they don't believe it.
His FFL is current, recently renewed- if the VPC/Brady group is so worried about dishonesty, then why do THEY have a federal firearms dealer's license?
Have they disclosed this information to their members? I just got done looking through their website and have found nothing mentioning this at all.
Also, one of the requirements of having an FFL is that you MUST conduct business with it- you can't simply get one then sit on it or use it for personal firearms.
This means that Josh Sugarmann must, by law, be engaged in the business of trafficking firearms. He is the leader of a non-profit, tax exempt organization, yet is legally bound to traffic weapons for a profit.
Mother Jones, how about some REALLY fearless journalism- check into the VPC's dealer license. Why are they, whose leader holds a gun dealer's license and is legally bound to engage in business with such license (call the ATF and ask them if you don't believe it, or check their web page on type 01 FFL's) trying to restrict citizens from owning weapons? Why do they have an FFL, and why do they hide this fact on their website?
Those who support this article and the VPC- how's that for hypocrisy? If he does NOT have the FFL for purposes of business, he is in violation of the laws governing federal firearms licensees, which falls under illegal gun trafficking. If he IS a practicing gun dealer, hiding that fact and leading the VPC/Brady group, then...how is that not deceptive on a very, very high level?
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a79/dritchie/SugarmannFFL.png
Yeah, your hunting rifle or magnum 44 can defeat all that!
Go to a local pawn shop and have them run the FFL number I posted above through the FFL EZ-Check system and see what pops up.
The VPC holding an FFL and hiding that fact while trying to "crack down" on guns sounds like a helluva lot better story than the one we're commenting on. Dunno about y'all.
Thats right, lets bring the conversation down to Hitler because not allowing people to have fully automatic weapons is so fascist. Having a waiting period to buy a handgun is so fascist. Doing background checks on gun buyers to make sure they're not fellons is so fascist.
Blocking such laws though is all about Freedom..... to kill
Plug this FFL number (Sugarmann's, head of the Violence Policy Center, cited in both this and Bruce Falconer's article)
1-54-000-01-8C-00725
Into this:
https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/
And viola! Hypocrisy (and possibly legal issues, since his holding an FFL for business purposes may put the VPC's tax free status at risk) stares you in the face.
With all that power, you better hope your government is benevolent towards its subjects! The well intentioned Socialist road to hell, we are now traveling, will lead to government that is tyrannical. There is no other outcome. You bet I will try to overthrow a government that pushes away my liberty to this extreme. You are right, I will probably die in such a fight, but I will have nothing but the burden of government to give to my children by then.
However, there must be regulations to keep handguns away from the mentally ill, criminals and excons (and repubs because they are are bat sh_it insane anyway). Get off your self righteous myopic high horses, you just look like complete idiots.
Support your rights and civil liberties, vote OBAMA in November.
How does it get anymore self righteous than the leading anti-gun group, one cited frequently by MoJo in articles, holding a license to deal in firearms as a business while hiding this information from its supporters AND trying to keep other Americans from getting such an FFL?
Check my posts above for proof.
Sorry, if someone tells me that owning a gun or being able to use one in self defense is a bad idea or that no one needs to be a gun dealer, then..well...why the heck would they hold a license to deal guns WHILE operating as a tax free non profit? Keep in mind that having a type 01 FFL (the type their head has) legally binds you to conduct business with that ffl. You must have business hours, must not conduct transactions solely for personal benefit and a slew of other things that make the VPC's "non proft" status questionable at best.
Who is being two faced and self righteous, given that information?
I think modern economics and weaponry have made the basic purpose of the 2nd amendment a bit less feasible, but, heck, you could say the same of the 4th and 5th in the face of modern surveillance equipment, and that doesn't implicitly repeal 'em.
The more relevant question would be "When will be the next time?" How ironic that the nut jobs with the same mind-set as the NRA are the ones who brought to power the dirt bags we now have to worry about defending ourselves against. Oh, BTW, why do these people believe that we Liberals don't own guns and don't know how to shoot?
But the idea that civilians owning weapons is going to stop the government from becoming totalitarian is downright absurd. That's because totalitarian regimes ARE ALWAYS POPULIST! What keeps us from falling into the same nightmares ourselves is our commitment to freedom AND open public discourse. Regimes become evil when they establish themselves based on deceit and fear, rather than open conversation; not when they out-gun the public.
Way to use new material. Double post for the win.
With due respect to The Lord Dark Helmet
This in a place where the lawful possession of operable firearms is limited to the Police.
So tell me how effective disarming law abiding citizens is in preventing these crimes.......
Posted by:Fed Up"]
So you're a participant in criminal violence then?
One more reason for LAW ABIDING citizens to have the means to defend themselves against criminals.
Sen. Diane Feinststein, a very anti-gun person, has or had a CCW and owned guns, plus has armed guards. Ditto for Sen. E. M. Kennedy (and some of his hired guards were busted in NY for illegal possession of fully automatic weapons). I believe Sen. Schumer has a CCW, and armed guards.
If guns are so evil, then why does just about everyone high in the anti-gun (really, anti-civil rights) industry have guns or thugs with guns? Seems like they should be setting an example by publicly renouncing their right and pledging that they will no longer have guns anywhere around them.
As far as the mole, why is it that leftist moles who infiltrate companies or conservative organizations are praised, but those from conservative groups who infiltrate socialist groups are condemned?
"Seven shootings in Washington on Monday night -- three dead. Possible connection with Supreme Court ruling?"
Makes a lot of sense...to an idiot.
Posted by:It's not important"]
I suggest you campaign against paddling pools, swimming pools & buckets, as "accidental" deaths of children involving these items are many times higher & usually from the same cause: plack of parental supervision.
Or how about deaths caused by motor vehicles?
Now THERE'S a preventable cause of many children's deaths that is many times higher than those caused by firearms.
NRA = Not Really America
NRA = Not Really America"]
Ah; a conspiracy theorist!
The reason the NRA is the most powerful non industry, lobbying organisation in the US is because so many citizens SUPPORT its actions.
That's called Democracy, or don't you believe in the principle?
This retired First Sergeant Paratrooper recalls kicking in doors in beautiful sunny Haiti and confiscating arsenals from the thugs living on the hills overlooking the lovely putrid city of Port-au-Prince. Remember this after the most ethical administration decided to enact a totally unconstitutional law banning "military style assault weapons." After the confiscated arsenals were turned over to the MPs, we NCO's and Officers asked, "Is this a dry run for operations against Americans?" We all to a man and woman sworn to up-hold and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic stated, "That would be an illegal order and we could refuse to carry it out." AIRBORNE!
However, there must be regulations to keep handguns away from the mentally ill, criminals and excons (and repubs because they are are bat sh_it insane anyway). Get off your self righteous myopic high horses, you just look like complete idiots.
Posted by:nra sucks ballz
So you advocate the restrictions of citizens' Rights according to their political allegiance?
How very National Socialist of you....
I suggest you explore some of the 20,000+ laws regulating firearms in the US: There are more than enough aimed at preventing felons & the insane from having firearms.
Support your rights and civil liberties, vote OBAMA in November.
Posted by:nra sucks my ballz"]
I suggest you read some of the hyperbole & overstated rhetoric used by the VPC & other anti 2nd Amendment groups if you believe they don't want to disarm EVERYONE.
How about doyen of the VPC, Carolyn McCarthy's "Mr & Mrs America, turn them all in" statement on firearms.
Dear boy: PLEASE do some research before pontificating upon a subject on which you patently have little, if any knowledge.
Thank you NRA for sticking up for our Civil Rights!
While you're at it, why not read the Bill of Rights. We'd all be up in arms (pun intended) if our posts were covered with "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(TEXT CENSORED BY U.S. GOVT.)" yet to deny a fellow citizens natural right to self defense is somehow alright?
Think about it.
Posted by:John"]
I'm well qualified to reply to this, as I'm English & live in the UK.
We have DOUBLE the violent crime rate of the US & FOUR TIMES the number of "hot" home invasions on a pro rata basis.
IF banning the lawful possession of handguns is a such a good idea, then why do we see so many shootings using them in the UK?
I throw down a challenge to all the liberals here:
Show me what YOUR policies have done to reduce violence amongst those who support you - the dispossessed, the indigent, those living in inner city ghettoes, drug addicts, illegal immigrants & all the other proponents of the welfare state.
OK; don't bother, because you've done a big fat zero.
Posted by:Bert"]
I guess you don't know what a NICS check is, or a Form 4473.
One thing firearms owners DON'T want is violent criminals & mentally unstable citizens having access to guns.
In the US, Battle of Athens TN, 1946. Google it.
Local officals took control of the county government. The NYT went nuts back then.
And if you count Cuba and the South American governments, and Darfur, quite recently :)
Emotion in Reading:
The meaning of the Second Amendment becomes quite clear if one removes the emotional "gun" issue. Let's re-state the 2nd in another context:
A well educated electorate, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
If this were the law, would only educated people have the right to keep books? Or, would only the voting electorate be allowed to read? Of course not. All the people would have the right to keep and read books, and the state would benefit by having a more educated electorate.
There is NO requirement to be a member of a Militia to have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. However, the more people who DO, the better the security of the state.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.' The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right. [Nunn vs. State, 1 Ga. (1 Kel.) 243, at 251 (1846)]
Moreover, gun control doesn't work. If it did Washington DC wouldn't be one of the most violent cities in the country.
Why are gun-grabbers so sexist?
From the third episode of the PBS series "The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow", which chronicles the years from 1917 to 1940: "The NAACP played a major role in civil rights during this time. While Du Bois urged Blacks to fight for their rights, NAACP Executive Secretary Walter White posed as a white man to infiltrate the Ku Klux Klan, and Charles Hamilton Houston, the NAACP's first chief counsel, fought battles in the courts to lay the foundation for the historic Brown v. Board of Education case."
I think the analogy of the NRA to the NAACP is clear. Both organizations were fighting extremist groups attempting to suppress the civil rights of their members.
Racists in America no doubt felt that what Walter White did was unfair to the Klan.
And do they think they just sent in ONE?
BWHAHAHAHAHA
That's right! They all took place in "Gun Free Zones." Or more accurately, "Victim disarmament zones",
or "Anti-self defense zones."
So, next time you visit a school, or a mall, leave your concealed handgun at home but be sure to bring your cell phone so you can call 911 if some shooting starts.
then wait...........
My god, what a fine American family. Time for another breakdown I guess.
The posts of several people in particular, 1 sided story, Dana Selihan, Will Sterling, Concerned Reader, Subdjoe, Wayne's Mom, First Shirt (Airborne!)and my friends Tsm002 and Emglish Mike.
The issues here are about a woman in her 60's who was involved in the anti-gun movement. What were her motivations? I would say, that based upon her actions, perpetrating a fraud wasn't one of them. It's more like joining another political party to see if it is for you, or at least, getting a sense of balance of both sides. You can't fault someone for that. I'd say the paranoia was misdirectd, but that's just me. When facts that support a position are fragile and thin, the proponents of same tend to be a bit paranoid about any critique, no matter how minor. Regardless, here's my take on things as a 50-plus Midwestern guy.
PERCEPTIONS AND VALUE JUDGEMENTS
What makes you feel the way you do about firea