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Hillary Clinton's Little-Noticed Israel Problem

News: HRC's position on Israel could mean a significant departure from longstanding U.S. policy. How come no one cares?

April 3, 2008


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Though Senator Barack Obama has never—neither in his Senate votes nor in his campaign literature—strayed from the conventional position of support for Israel, he has in this primary season been dogged by the issue. The flare-up last week surrounding Obama's allegedly "anti-Jewish" campaign cochairman, sparked by a piece in the conservative American Spectator magazine, was only the latest instance in which his foes have suggested that Obama has an "Israel problem." Yet even as Obama has been subjected to intense scrutiny, Senator Hillary Clinton has received virtually no attention for taking an unconventional position on Israel (albeit in a direction approved by pro-Israel hardliners). Her vow of support for Israel's claim on an "undivided Jerusalem," if enacted, would mark a major—and problematic—break with longstanding U.S. policy.

Under the heading "Standing with Israel against terrorism," Clinton's official policy paper, released last September and currently touted on her campaign website, states, "Hillary Clinton believes that Israel's right to exist in safety as a Jewish state, with defensible borders and an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, secure from violence and terrorism, must never be questioned." With the phrase "an undivided Jerusalem as its capital," Clinton seems to take a hardline position on a deeply contested facet of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and a position like this should have garnered at least passing interest from the mainstream media. So how come nobody's paying attention?

The answer may lie within the long history of empty rhetoric on Jerusalem doled out by presidential candidates. Perhaps the lack of interest can be chalked up to uncertainty in how to interpret Clinton’s position. Or it may be that right-wing pronouncements that give short shrift to the Palestinian side are simply not seen as remarkable. (An exception to the media silence on Clinton’s position was the American Prospect's Gershom Gorenberg, an Israeli.)

Clinton is toying with one of the few most important final-status issues that will have to be resolved as part of any two-state solution. Israel captured the eastern half of Jerusalem during the 1967 Arab-Israeli War. While Israel has declared the whole of an expanded Jerusalem its capital, the international community views east Jerusalem as occupied territory and the potential capital of any future Palestinian state. In recognition of the contested status of Jerusalem, the United States and other countries maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv.

"Jerusalem is not only of political, religious, and emotional significance to Palestinians. It's the cultural and economic capital of any future state of Palestine. To carve out east Jerusalem from the rest of Palestine would be to deprive of it the geographic area which traditionally has been the heart of the Palestinian economy," said Philip Wilcox, a retired U.S. Foreign Service officer who served as consul general and chief of mission in Jerusalem and is now president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, a D.C. nonprofit. "It's an absolute deal –breaker, and there will be no peace if there isn't an agreed political division of Jerusalem."

If opposing a compromise on Jerusalem is a deal breaker, one would think there would be more importance attached to Clinton's words—especially appearing in the unequivocal construction of Israel's "right to exist" that "must never be questioned." If Clinton did, as president, endorse Israel's annexation of all of Jerusalem, it could mean nothing less than a repudiation of the concept of a two-state solution. And while her position mirrors that of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), it actually puts her at odds with some prominent Israeli officials, notably Vice Premier Haim Ramon, who have publicly spoken about the need to cede the Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem. One explanation for this incongruity, offered by all of the half-dozen experts I spoke to on the subject, is that Clinton’s statement is nothing more than election-year rhetoric. That is, her stand may tell us more about the fraught politics of Israel/Palestine in the United States than it does about how a Hillary Clinton administration would approach the conflict.

"I think it is said in the knowledge that this is a rhetorical commitment only. And that all past presidents once coming to office have recognized that the problem of Jerusalem is one that has to be resolved through negotiations," Wilcox said. That interpretation would be in keeping with an old tradition of presidential candidates making empty promises on Jerusalem. A favorite, going back to Ronald Reagan, is to pledge to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. Both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush made and then broke that promise and, in so doing, had to repeatedly waive the requirements of a 1995 law—of which John McCain was one of 76 Senate cosponsors—demanding the embassy be moved.

This campaign season, none of the remaining candidates seem to have made that pledge, at least publicly. Earlier this month, however, Haaretz reported that a Clinton surrogate told a Cleveland audience that Hillary Clinton would move the embassy to Jerusalem. John McCain, for his part, was quoted on his Mideast trip last week as saying that he supported Jerusalem "as the capital of Israel"—a weaker formulation than Clinton's. His campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

So is there an electoral gain, at least perceived by the candidates and their advisers, to making these types of promises? While it's impossible to know how many American Jews would vote on the basis of Jerusalem, the most recent American Jewish Committee poll found 58 percent opposed to compromise on the status of Jerusalem as a "united city" under Israel's jurisdiction, putting them in line with Clinton. But the number of American Jewish voters is not that high. M.J. Rosenberg of the Israel Policy Forum, a dovish advocacy group in Washington, believes that voters simply aren't part of Clinton's calculus. Her Jerusalem position," he said, is "designed to appeal to money people. The single-issue donors in the Jewish community tend to be far to the right. It's throwing red meat out to some people who desperately want to eat some red meat. It's not a serious commitment."

But to discern whether Clinton is serious about moving the embassy or supporting an "undivided Jerusalem" as Israel's capital, one has to look at the history of her position and undertake the not-so-simple task of interpreting it.

Clinton's rhetoric dates back to when her husband was attempting to broker a compromise on the holy city. She first took the position in 1999, prior to announcing her candidacy for the U.S. Senate in New York. (It was later in the same campaign that Clinton was slammed for hugging and kissing Suha Arafat, the wife of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, at a ceremony on the West Bank, where Suha, speaking in Arabic, accused the Israeli government of using poison gas against Palestinian women and children. Hours after the event, Clinton condemned her.) "I personally consider Jerusalem the eternal and indivisible capital of Israel," she wrote in a letter to the president of Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, echoing the exact language favored by some Israeli politicians. That stand was interpreted in the media as an obvious pander, a play for support among the hardline segment of New York's sizable Jewish community. "Israel's new friend Hillary Clinton, born-again Zionist" read the headline in her hometown paper, the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. As Michael Tomasky later wrote in Hillary's Turn, his book about the 2000 campaign, "The Jerusalem question is always an issue in New York campaigns, and anyone running for dogcatcher in New York signs on to the position Hillary took."

Her position might have been New York politics as usual, but it had serious implications for her husband's administration. A spokesman for Bill Clinton's State Department immediately distanced the administration from her comments, saying that the "first lady was expressing her personal views" and that the U.S. position on Jerusalem—that it was a matter to be negotiated between the parties themselves—had "not changed."

And, yet, despite Hillary Clinton's strong words in '99 and today, there is still linguistic wiggle room that allows her to support the idea of a Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem. "Well, [Clinton's statement] is strong, but if people are determined to be a little bit creative in the way they interpret these things, ‘undivided' sometimes literally means 'don't put the barbwire back up,'" said William Quandt, a professor of politics at the University of Virginia and a longtime observer of America's role in the Arab-Israeli conflict. "In 1967 there was a divided Jerusalem," he added, referring to the period before the 1967 war when Jerusalem was physically divided, a state of affairs to which no one wants to return. Clinton's campaign did not respond to a request for clarification of her position.

Then there's the ambiguity embedded in the very term "Jerusalem." James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute, notes that it can be construed several ways. "Is it Jerusalem as defined by its municipal boundaries in 1967? Is it what Israel unilaterally and illegally annexed that was recognized by no one, including the United States government? Is it the expanded greater Jerusalem that now includes the settlement belt?"

But no matter how Clinton defines the borders of Jerusalem or whether the policy paper is intended as empty rhetoric, her position is emblematic of her record on Israel. As others have pointed out, her campaign position paper on Israel doesn't even mention a two-state solution. She virtually never utters the word "Palestinians." Her Senate website describes her as "a leader in supporting Israel's right to build the fence"—what others call the wall—that juts deeply into the West Bank and has been widely criticized for violating the human rights of Palestinians. She personally toured the barrier in late 2005. All this, and yet somehow Barack Obama is the only candidate whose position on Israel has drawn fire.

Justin Elliott is an editorial fellow at Mother Jones.



 

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How is it the place of Americans to tell the Israelis and Palestinians what their peace settlement will look like? They're the ones who have to live with it, not us. For an American, even a president, to say Jerusalem will or won't be divided is ridiculous. I'm hoping to hear an American politician say he/she will help the Israelis and Palestinians however we can, whether it's offering ideas to get past disagreements, offering a neutral ground for meeting, economic aid to both sides, but we can't tell them what to do.
Posted by:Eric FergusonApril 3, 2008 10:44:12 AMRespond ^
It's well known that due to the strength of AIPAC it is impossible for any candidate to be elected to US national office without sucking up to Israel. Period. Many elected officials speak their true minds after leaving office, but none dare do so with the expectation of being elected or re-elected. It is a sad commentary on our weakness and our willingness to support regimes which continually violate international human rights laws, such as Israel, Saudi Arabia and China. Not surprising when considering how the current administration also violates them.
Posted by:Mary HughesApril 3, 2008 10:57:05 AMRespond ^
for the last comment after a recent survey was taken from the american public by an independent organization, they found a large majority of American jews beleive Israel isn't the most important topic on debate, and actually care little for it compared to other issues Americans seem to be facing, the poll also showed that a large majority of Americans support Jerusalem being an undivided state, so why this author cant comprehend why people aren't attacking her for her statement is pretty dumb since they all agree with her
Posted by:JoshApril 3, 2008 12:20:19 PMRespond ^
The Democrat Demimondaine and Consummate Pandering Politician: Hillary Clinton

On November 15, 2005, Senator Hillary Clinton stood on the Jerusalem side of The Wall and was quoted in Ha'aretz, expressing support for The Wall because it "is against terrorists" and "not against the Palestinian people."

Senator Clinton,-as most of Congress- have NOT ventured to the other side of The Wall to view the economic and psychological effects of The Wall, which has been deemed illegal and must come down by the International Court of Justice in the Hague. [I addressed this in detail in "MEMOIRS of a Nice Irish-American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory" ]

After reading Senator Clinton's inaccurate, insensitive and pandering remarks in Ha'aretz, I immediately contacted her through her website, but my email bounced back, for I am no longer a New York constituent. This really got my Irish up, for unlike Senator Clinton, I was born and bred in New York and I am more New York than Hillary will ever be.

Not being one to ever give up, I then snail mailed Hillary a respectful letter expressing my distress over her obvious pandering and blatant denial of International Law and informed her of the many gaps and lack of 'security' along The illegal Wall that I knew about from my visits to Israel Palestine in June 2005 and in January, March and November 2006. Every taxi driver, would be 'terrorist' and I knew the way into Jerusalem from Bethlehem without going through security checkpoints and The Terminal.

The only response I received from Senator Clinton was to be put on the DNC's mailing list soliciting funds.

Clinton has continued to fuel the fire of my Irish ire during her hustling for AIPAC bucks:

"I was deeply saddened and outraged by the suicide bombing in Eilat this week. Some are saying that Eilat was bombed because Israeli's efforts at self-defense through its security fence have been so successful. But Eilat is a tragic reminder of the threats that Israel faces everyday and underscores the importance of our continued support for Israel's right to protect and defend her people. The highest priority of any government is to ensure the safety and security of its citizens and that is why, as I have said, I've been a strong supporter of Israel's right to build a security barrier to keep terrorists out. I have spoken out against the International Court of Justice for questioning Israel's right to build that fence of security."

If The Wall were actually built on Israeli land, Clinton could get a pass on her procuring for AIPAC funds, but a map of The Wall super-imposed upon Palestinian aquifers clearly illuminates that The Wall is all about grabbing land and resources from the indigenous peoples of that land.

Reported in the august, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, "Financed with U.S. aid at a cost of $1.5 million per mile, the Israeli wall prevents residents from receiving health care and emergency medical services. In other areas, the barrier separates farmers from their olive groves which have been their families' sole livelihood for generations." [Page 43, Jan/Feb. 2007]

In Jeff Halper's April 2005 edition of Obstacles to Peace, A Re-Framing of the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict, he wrote, “Missing from Israel’s security framing is the very fact of occupation, which Israel both denies exists…and that “security” requires Israel control over the entire country…rendering impossible a just peace based on human rights, international law, reconciliation.” [Page 1]

During one of my four interviews with Jeff, he told me this joke:

“The Israeli government simply does not want to take responsibility and the USA government ignores the situation. Do you know why Israel does not want to become America’s 51st state? Because then they would only have two senators!"

They certainly have one vocal demimondaine and ultimate craving consummate pandering politician in Hillary.


Eileen Fleming, Reporter and Editor WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Author "Keep Hope Alive" and "Memoirs of a Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"
Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu" and "13 Minutes with Vanunu"

Posted by:eileen flemingApril 3, 2008 3:51:30 PMRespond ^
It's certainly valid for Mr. Elliot to suggest equal treatment for Sens. Obama and Clinton. It's quite another for him to make "hay" over Sen. Clinton's remarks as "breaking with longstanding U.S. policy," when I'm sure I've read in MJ before where the author has made pro-Palestinian statements without acknowledging any veracity to the Israel side of the argument. And then to associate her with an "American Spectator" statement in order to cast her as a "conservative in liberal clothing" is just reprehensible. Her statements may have not been "politically correct," but just because someone supports Israel doesn't mean that they're conservative or "fundamentalist-Christian-waiting-for-the -rapture" mentality. I see fundamental problem with liberal mentality; I'm a liberal and Jewish, yet somehow far-leftists somehow see the two as incompatible. After all, liberals wear their "hearts-on-their-sleeves" and slobber over every downtrodden people story without regard to mitigating circumstances. In other words, if you're "rich and successful" (not necessarily the case with Israelis) then it must be your fault! You have alienated so many Jews who have gone off and joined the mindless conservatives just because of this very issue. I am not one of them because my country comes first! You guys might try thinking about that before you go off and mindlessly blame Israel for all middle east woes!
Posted by:Stuart RovinApril 3, 2008 5:16:00 PMRespond ^
Isn't Dictionary.com wonderful; you can have a definition for say, demimonde, in just seconds! Maybe you, Ms. Fleming, need to ask yourself a more fundamental question about what caused those conditions for which politicians "have NOT ventured to the other side of The Wall to view the economic and psychological effects of The Wall.;" that question would be "What caused those conditions in the first place?" Was it Israel's imperialist land grabbing practices, or maybe a whole litany of Arabic propaganda (from places like Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, etc.) and broken promises from same and a general lack of care by the Arab countries that let their Palestinian brothers and sisters languish in despair and poverty. Maybe you also need go over the entire history of the region and find the places where Israel helped the Palestinians i.e. they supported Hamas in the beginning because of the great social welfare the movement performed; only later did they become mostly terrorists. You represent the frightful ignorance of the far-left, who use much the same tactics as the blood-thirsty, salivating conservatives that tune into "his hugeness, Druggy Limbaugh."
Posted by:Stuart RovinApril 3, 2008 5:29:04 PMRespond ^
Hmmm... I am waiting for the day when we can talk about Palestinians' rights to defend themselves or Palestine's right to exist. The fact that those conversations have yet to come up in mainstream media is a sad statement about our inability to see beyond the words and into the humanity of a people.
Posted by:GinaApril 3, 2008 11:00:00 PMRespond ^
How is it that American people can't see through Hillary. Anyone who can disregard the rights of down-trodden nation like Palestinians can not and should not be trusted. What's wrong with Americans?
Posted by:Parviz MirbaghiApril 3, 2008 11:55:59 PMRespond ^
i seldom if ever read what a US politico says. i also skip, if i read them, dwelling on their utterances.
what's important to me is what the SD (state deprmnt)and the invisible hand that guides US says. even better, study what SD does or did. and the answer is clear: palestine never rises again; while pals get ousted. so, what's left cannot b divided. thank u
Posted by:bozhidar bob balkasApril 4, 2008 6:26:52 AMRespond ^
The author neglects to mention (very important) that the disputed West Bank was NOT captured from "Palestine" in 1967. It was captured from Jordan--who has a peace treaty with Israel.
It therefore can not be legally "occupied" (even though people refer to it as such for convienience).
Only through lies does the 'Arab cause' gain its moral justification. Which is generally quite good enough for most of the world. The establishment of Israel was a liberation movement for the protection of the single most oppressed population in world history. The fact that they have thrived is simply too objectionable for the oppressors, who, through a waterfall of lies and double-standards have turned them into the picture of the Nazis which they themselves had successfully escaped.
Lying about Jews is the last fashionable crime.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 4, 2008 6:40:41 AMRespond ^
Stuart Rovin -

I'm not sure how you're interpreting the article's stance as 'Israel is to blame for all the problems in the Middle East'?. You seem to be suggesting that Israel has been only benevolent toward the Palestinians, who can therefore be be blamed - completely - for their plight, and that's just dishonest. Why is it so problematic to acknowledge that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians has been callous and oppressive?
Posted by:Emma SullivanApril 4, 2008 6:42:14 AMRespond ^
"Why is it so problematic to acknowledge that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians has been callous and oppressive?"
Because the Arabs mistreat each other far worse then Jews ever did. Without the 'race card' in the equation, no one pays attention.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 4, 2008 8:20:00 AMRespond ^
Jerusalem does not belong to the State of Israel. Jerusalem belongs to the world, to Jew, Christian and Moslem alike. The Old City should be under the administration of some international body. For any grup to exlaim exclusive ownership of the Holy City is blasphemy.
Posted by:Larry D. MosleyApril 4, 2008 11:23:45 AMRespond ^
Larry, the Old City is rather effectively administered by Israel and allows the diverse religions and sects to manage their affairs. For example, the status quo inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, where half a dozen Christian sects have claims, functions normally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church _of_the_Holy_Sepulchre#Status_quo

The Waqf that controls the Al Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock is granted full authority to deal with affairs on that site, with the exception that when worshippers show up with rocks to throw on the heads of Jews worshipping ten feet away and fifty feet below, Israeli police show up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waqf

And the Armenians handle their affairs in the Armenian quarter.

This is all in very stark contract to the Jordanian, British, and Ottoman administrations of the Old City, which were all disastrous to varying degrees for one or more communities.

It is land, and it has been under political control of someone for over 3000 years. To assert that no sovereign body should be running the day-to-day things makes no sense -- real people really live there! Somebody has to keep the water running, pick up the trash, review building permits, provide basic police, fire, and emergency services, and all the rest!
Posted by:Pan-JerusalemiteApril 4, 2008 12:14:56 PMRespond ^
"For any grup to exlaim exclusive ownership of the Holy City is blasphemy."
More Hebrew bashing . . .just like before . .
The Vatican is an exclusively Catholic nation/state. Mecca is the exclusive HQ of Islam. The Jews (by contrast) have provided for protection of all disparate group's rights and peaceful enjoyment of their holy properties and yet they are the "blasphemes".
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 4, 2008 12:50:04 PMRespond ^
Why doesn't anyone look at Israel/Palestine and see the need for a one-state solution? Really -- what makes Israel/Palestine that different from South Africa in the 1980s?
Posted by:GregApril 4, 2008 1:28:10 PMRespond ^
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org /jsource/US-Israel/Jerusalem_Relocation_Act.html

The Jerusalem Embassy Relocation Act of 1995 appears to officially affirm Jerusalem as the undivided capital of the state of Israel. If this is so, then Sen. Clinton's position is consistent with that of the former Clinton Administration which failed to veto the bill. I may be wrong on this, but this is my current understanding of this issue. As far as I can tell, the United States has already acknowledged Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel. And, YES, this is a major concern for those of us who'd like to see a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Posted by:WilliamApril 4, 2008 1:39:14 PMRespond ^
richardKane
@verizon.net
Both Hillary and McCain will put an end to the touch of evenhanded policies that includes President Bush.

If we are still fighting Muslims under her term, people won't have Bush to blame and blaming Jews in general will become overweening. So if Hilary gets the nomination, the pro-Israeli lobby will have to switch to McCain. Because McCain will be blamed for all the wars he gets into especially in Latin America and not the Jews which will happen if Hillary win.

McCain's next 100 years rhetoric is a little like Hitler's 1000 years rhetoric.

I'm scared.

Justin Eliot how could your write such an article without mentioning McCain as well.
Posted by:Richard KaneApril 4, 2008 1:45:17 PMRespond ^
The Zionists have consistently rejected a one state solution. No Western government presses the issue. If the Jews cannot maintain a demographic majority, then Jewish democracy and the Jewish character of the state would be undermined. A one-state solution would mean roughly equal numbers of Arab Muslims and Jews.

Scholars suggest that there is a fear among Jews and ardent Zionists that if Jews do not control their own state, they might fall victim to serious persecution again in the future. Personally, I think a federated country with a Jewish state and an Arab state would be great because a united Holy Land is desirable. But, so far, neither side has embraced this. If you read Mearsheimer & Walt, they also mention the positive attributes of a one-state solution, but they go on to explain the obstacles. This is why a two-state solution is the prominent proposal.
Posted by:WilliamApril 4, 2008 1:46:07 PMRespond ^
Hillary needs to wake up and smell the occupation! Is she so incapable of seeing the impact her stance would have on the Palestian people? I wonder what else she has planned for the rest of the world. Shame on her and her foreign policies.
Posted by:ConcernedApril 4, 2008 2:38:04 PMRespond ^
Josh-Jerusalum is not a State, either divided or undivided.
Posted by:doloresApril 4, 2008 3:13:05 PMRespond ^
One state versus two states:
At the core of Islam is the concept of a singular state regime. Therefore, fundamental Islam does not recognize Syria -versus- Jordan -versus- Kuwait, etc.. From the perspective of the zealot Muslim, all are part of the total and single nation-state of 'Islamic Arabia'. All are to be controlled by a single 'caliph', who is a religious leader first and a head-of-state second.
How does this apply to Israel? Israel is therefore seen not as a second state but as a third. This is important to understand, in order to appreciate why the parties have been unable to reconcile their differences for the past 90+ years. Thus, there is no set of national Israeli borders, either large or small, which would pacify the Islamic pan-national quest. All consider the Jewish Nation an apostate and religiously illegitimate aberration.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 4, 2008 3:14:30 PMRespond ^
Are you kidding? Or just naive? The reason the media hasn't picked up on Clinton's position on an "undivided Jerusalem" is because they're only interested in the horse race - not the issues. They're too busy bashing her for exaggerating the risk to herself on the Tusla trip. They're too busy handicapping the odds of her winning the nomination.

BTW, I voted for Obama.
Posted by:Pat TibbsApril 4, 2008 3:41:25 PMRespond ^
American corporate media is extremely zionist and prevents any meaningful resolution to this problem and is a great factor to why our political system is broken---our politicians have to swear allegiance to Israel not the USA or they will not gain office.
Poor America--unable to save itself from the zionist corporate media.
Posted by:NORMA DOSKYApril 4, 2008 3:52:43 PMRespond ^
What Norma said.
Posted by:opeluboyApril 4, 2008 5:03:40 PMRespond ^
Supporting Israel for Christian reasons is the biggest blasphemy I've ever heard. Jesus said to "love thy neighbor." And remember, it was the Jews who turned Jesus over to the Romans. The Israelis are not Christians, but certainly hypocrites. It is amazing that they are doing this tothe Palestinian people after what they suffered at the hands of the Nazis. It's too bad that there's not a body strong enough militarily to enforce International Law. We also put to death many Nazis at Nuremburg for doing the very same thing we have done to Iraq--aggressively attacking a country that did not provoke us, and had no WMDs or any other threats to us. What they have is a lot of oil.
Posted by:AlanApril 4, 2008 5:20:13 PMRespond ^
It is impossible to believe Hillary has given any serious thought to Jewish ethics. With her coming on from the secret Sojourners group she caters to the right wing absurdity that God is a real estate broker. On top of that there is a slurring over the issue of the Palestinian identity in which meshuggahs
such as David Horowitz claim that "Palestine" and "Palestinian" are made-up names.
Posted by:Frank LornitzoApril 4, 2008 6:53:01 PMRespond ^
you think things are bad now, wait tii bamma draws out our troops, and gives iran the go ahead to do the israelis what they have been promising to do, or do you think hes going to stop his muslim brothers, wake up!!
Posted by:jerryApril 4, 2008 11:55:38 PMRespond ^
iwouldnt brag about that
Posted by:jerryApril 4, 2008 11:59:30 PMRespond ^
"zionist corporate media"
racist lies.
Moreover, the notion that the Jewish 2-percent of the U.S. population somehow controls the entire country--is as stupid as believing that Ronald McDonald is God. The US generally supports Israel because very few Americans are as ignorant as Norma. The typical American can redily see that Jews live in peace and contribute highly where ever they happen to be. Of the approximate 750 Nobel prizes handed out since 1901, 162 were presented to Jews.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/nobels.html
Perhaps the Nobel committee is part of this "Zionist" conspiracy to deprive everyone else of their legitimate rights.
People like Norma are understandibly jealous and blame Jews for all their personal inadequacies.
In reality, the US news Media has finally settled somewhere near neutral, after decades of blatent bias against Israel. Israel survives in spite of thousands of years of accumulated hate.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 5, 2008 5:46:16 AMRespond ^
Trollstein - your denial of the obvious is laughable. Denying the reality of the stranglehold on our foreign policy, political institutions, politicians etc., by Zionist/Israeli interests, does not change the facts. People are slowly waking up, you are trying to keep them sleeping, it won't work. An occupation is an occupation, whether by the US in Iraq, or Israel in Palestine. Sin is sin, murder is murder, whether by Apache helicopters and hi-tech bombs from the air, or by cutting off food, water and electricity from the Palestinian population on the ground - whatever is sowed will be reaped - God said it, you can't change it.
Posted by:bennieApril 5, 2008 9:20:25 AMRespond ^
Coming from New York Jewish family roots, I am nonetheless supportive of an Israel that, ideally, manages to fit the Palestinians and the Israelis together. For more clarification, a state that combines worshippers of three major religions together without them cutting each other to pieces. Religious wars have gone on for centuries- isn't it time to end the vicious cycle?

Hillary's "pandering," as it is referred to in this article, merely reflects the overall policy of the US. Don't bite the Palestinians, but favor the Isrealis. Personally, I think that it's time for some acknowledgement on the part of the US that if it had helped the thousands of Holocaust refugees who tried to flee by allowing them to become citizens instead of turning them away repeatedly, then maybe this whole thing wouldn't have happened.
Posted by:SueApril 5, 2008 9:40:03 AMRespond ^
We have supported Israel since 1948 and with $31/2 billion yearly it's time to say 'adios'
When you pay the piper, you should call the tune but Israel has snubbed us from day one but never shy in taking handouts and American's hard working tax payers money. RIP Israel and let them sort it out.
Posted by:Tom WoodApril 5, 2008 2:33:58 PMRespond ^
bennie:
Thank God that rediculous opinions like your's remain in the slim minority. As if Israel is the only controversial subject in the world. About 100 other topics are truely more important, yet, Israel gets the attention day-in-and-day-out.
"stranglehold on our foreign policy"
Abserd and racist.
Tom Wood:
"I'm anti-Jew"
Who would have guessed?
You're an idiot too, although at least a candid one.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 5, 2008 3:25:40 PMRespond ^
In the month of March, 2008, the Obama campaign raised $40-million from over one million seperate and individual donors. Exactly what sort of "stranglehold" compels Mr. Obama to be supportive of Israel?
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 5, 2008 4:00:06 PMRespond ^
Thank you for an excellent heads-up on a critical issue that all the candidates are dancing around. Recently we have had to deal seriously with the Q of Race in the US, it is now perhaps time-overdue to deal with the Q of the influence of AIPAC on US policies in the Middle East. It's a volatile subject -- sobeit, it's time to honestly address the suffering of the Palestinians as the land literally disappears beneath their feet and into the hands of Jewish Israeli settlers.
Posted by:prairdogApril 5, 2008 6:24:06 PMRespond ^
I have wondered for a number of years why the US keeps supporting Israel. If, let's say, there was a war between Columbia and Chile. The US Navy had one of our spy ships off the Columbian coast. This ship was listening to all of the radio traffic and anything that was thought to be significant. Then the Columbian Navy and Air Force attacked this ship (which is 25 miles off the Columbian coast). There are many US Naval casualities, both wounded and KIA. What would the US do???? Well the same type of incident happened to the USS Liberty in the 1967 War. The Israeli Navy and Air Force attacked OUR ship. The US NAVY DID NOTHING to protect this ship, as a matter of fact the rescue planes were told to "return to base". What about Michael Polland who is currently in a US prison for passing along to Israel numerous secrets. Why DOES the UNITED STATES keep supporting Israel? So they have Nuclear weapons, why not "Let Go and Let GOD". The Neocons and the Christian Religious Right HAS to SUPPORT Israel. The Bible tells them so. Fu** that whole idea.
STOP SUPPORTING ISRAEL
Posted by:Nala EgralApril 6, 2008 8:42:43 AMRespond ^
Assuming, arguendo, that the USA stopped all its support for Israel tomorrow. This would include moral support, financial support and political support in the United Nations. What would change? Absolutely nothing. The US provides 5% of Israel's budget. No earth-shattering crisis there. The UN Security counsel might pass one or more of its typically lopsided resolutions, which Israel would probably ignore and the Security Counsel would have no further (practical) power because its members are typically spineless.
I can't believe I am arguing with such ignorant people.
The Jews have been routinely blamed for every problem in the world for thousands of years. These assorted accusations have always included outright lies and gross distortions.
History repeats itself.
If anything, the variety of racist comments found herein reinforces the absolute need for a Jewish homeland.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 6, 2008 9:08:19 AMRespond ^
a zionist has a rationalization for each zionist crime. Palestine? what's that? it never existed. so, how could have jews attacked a nonexistent teritory? it's an ideal rationalization.
a zionist also declares (tho tacitly) that no new nations can rise; thus, new claimants such as kosovars and pals for selfgovernance or statehood cannot be right. then there is a refrain about int'l laws; written, of course, by evil empires to cement land gains which they obtained by sword.
one could go on and on about these 'chosen' people whom yahweh commands (actually rabid priests) to utterly slay all canaanites.
and if yahweh existed, wouldn't he have given (not promised) jews at least a continent; or, better yet, a planet of their own? but world will never forget your crimes against humanities.
Posted by:bozhidar bob balkasApril 7, 2008 3:40:12 AMRespond ^
Jews are the ONLY minority ethnic group in the history of the world who has managed to consistantly thrive AS MINORITIES.
Jews live in total peace and are quite productive members of societies in dozens of countries. In the USA, the total percentage of Jews is 2% and the total percentage incarcerated prisoners is something on the order of 0.01% (of total prison population). Of this tiny group, all but a few mentally ill ("son of sams") were convicted of "white collar" crimes (non violent). Yet, put these same Jews in their own nation and all of a sudden they become the enemy of mankind? Ridiculous. They become what they always have become, the hunted and hated.
The truth be told, those in the anti-Jew world (such as bozhidar bob balkas) can't deal with the universal success rate that Jews have attained. It incenses them because it tends to verify something they can't tolerate. Namely, Jews "chosen" status. Mind you, such a status need not actually exist for there to be a body of people who nonetheless fight and argue against it (for political hay). I for one do not believe that God has selected any ethnic group over any other and I also do not believe that God bequeathed any real estate to any ethnic group. These are all "straw men," set up by those who need something reasonable to argue against in public. Nor to I believe that "Zionism" even exists. I am a leftist supporter of Israel for an abundance of reasons, none having to do with God or "Zionism", which, like the infamous "protocols of the Elders of Zion" exists as an antiquated work of fiction.
What the anti-Jew world REALLY can't tolerate is the possibility that by putting all those Jews together into one "think-tank" so to speak, that marvels of science and medicine will begin to emerge. This is the core objection to the Jewish National Homeland. Its the same basic (emotional) objection that a marginal school-child (with problems at home) has towards the smartest one's in the class. In the case of Israel, its de-evolutionary and therefore highly dangerous and counter-productive to the future status of mankind.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 7, 2008 6:24:42 AMRespond ^
one expects a zionist to not only call people names but also to select facts to show jews as the best people in the world. and when one rejects this, one is antisemitic or antijewish. by namecalling alone, one admits he hasn't anything valuable to say.
trollstein doesn't espy that if one is anticatholic, antizionist, antijudaist, antimohammedanism, one is not nor can one be antiirish or antipolish, antijewish, antiiranian, antiisraeli; one can be only against what these people do.
nobody is accusing any canadian, lest he be first a jew, pole, iranian and then canadian, of not being peaceful or productive.
if a jew or a serb would engage in any activity that damages our country, even then i'd be quiet about it because there are laws to deal with that.
by invokinng meritocratic qualities jews have you mean to say, i educe, that the more worthy one is, the more rights one should have. why would you evoke meritocracy unless with intent to posit tacitly that it entitles you to a special right or privelege?
this is no way to talk people; tho you may believe whatever you want; just don't say it. i'm not a scientist; thus, i will not get into why so many jews excell in so many fields. i do have some ideas about it but will write about them only if asked. ok! no more dysphemistic nor euphemistic labeling. or i'll erase you.
Posted by:bozhidar bob balkasApril 7, 2008 9:13:22 AMRespond ^
I have only two photo clipped from magazines from the Clinton. One is a cover of Newsweek: "They're back. Clinton wins. Gingrich goes. Monica who?" I kept the cover because I was so relieved when American voters opted for public government issues over tawdry scandal.
The other photo is of Bill Clinton and the Palestinian and Israeli leaders of the time. Advances toward peace were being made at that time.
Posted by:Kathy GianniniApril 7, 2008 10:13:28 AMRespond ^
bozhidar bob balkas writes:
"i'll erase you. . . "
Let me see if I understand . .
As a 'scientist' you know how to erase people?
You wrote:
" . . one admits he hasn't anything valuable to say"
That of course is in the eye of the reader. I frankly do not expect you to find anything valuable in my statements. These are mainly posted for the benefit of those readers with more sense then yourself.
If you visit the high-level "think-tanks" all over the world, you will predominantly find an abundance of three ethnics:
Chinese, East Indian and Jewish.
This is not any coincidence. It is the result of the fact that those cultures promoted education (reading and writing) for the most thousands of years throughout history. In the case of the Jews, their success numbers are further enhanced by the fact that today's living Hebrews are the offspring of the ones smart enough to survive numerous dozens of genocides throughout history.
This does not entitle them to any special privileges and my previous post made no such allegation. It simply explains the chemistry whereby certain non-Jewish blame them for all the world's problems. Plain ol' fashion jealousy. At the risk of repeating myself:
1 year before Israel gained independence, Pakistan succeeded from India. The USA and England both supported Pakistan. Millions of Hindus packed up and moved out of Pakistan and millions of Muslims went the opposite direction into Pakistan. That's what happens when a country is born through independence. Not unlike dozens of other similar examples throughout modern history.
Now, how ridiculous would it be if the Hindus who left Pakistan in 1947 were still today living in shanty-towns and calling themselves "refugees"? Who would care one lick for them? Who would blame Pakistan for their poverty? Of course, no one. Only the Jews are universally hated enough to qualify for the full-court international press, all day, every day for 60 years.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 7, 2008 12:06:30 PMRespond ^
Hillary's real problem is her fund raising. A glance through the disclosure and Jewish literature makes it clear that she is their candidate of choice and they provide most of the campaign contributions she receives. If she is elected her paid-for positions could be a major source of further Middle East instability and a major threat to the U.S. www.opedinfo.com
Posted by:CamsalisApril 7, 2008 3:50:54 PMRespond ^
Give it up, Tollstein. Israel is its own worst enemy. The daily headlines tell the bare bones truth of Israel's atrocities against their neighbors. The stories are never picked up by the evening news and the history of the abuse is never given, like Palestinian rage happened in a vacuum. Israel would be better off if Jews like you would face the truth and work for a solution instead of being part of the problem. Fewer and fewer Americans believe you. We aren't stupid and we're not illiterate. Are you?
Posted by:camsalisApril 7, 2008 4:01:53 PMRespond ^
i wish to report that the comment by trollstein posted apr 7 at 12:06 is engaging in personal attacks. please check it. he also (probably deliberately quotes only half of one of my statments. he also puts words in my mouth. in a post by him apr 7 at 6:24 am he says this "those in the anti jew world (such as bozhidar balkas) and goes on another tangent. thank you
Posted by:bozhidar bob balkasApril 7, 2008 4:58:22 PMRespond ^
Camsalis:
You wrote:
“Israel would be better off if Jews like you . . .”
I have not mentioned my religion and I assume you can’t even see what I look like from an ethnic perspective. For all you know, I could be an Arab-Muslim. But your assumption reveals much about your other beliefs, namely, based on innuendo.
While I do not agree with every decision Israel makes I firmly believe that its critics:
a. Expect behavior which no other country would engage in (double-standards) and
b. Routinely lie about history and even profoundly spin current events to wrongly portray Israel in the worst possible light.
Under such conditions, I have made the only equitable decision, to stand behind Israel and more importantly, its people, the single most hunted humans in the history of the world.
Apply any reasonable standard of fairness and the Israel-bashers are revealed as either latent or blatant Jew-haters. Some (on this very blog) have boasted of same. At the end of day, Israel/Palestine is a minor problem compared to:
1. Pollution and global warming
2. The ongoing genocides of Africa, which have claimed millions of innocent lives.
3. The oppression of women in many Islamic dictatorships and the violent Islamic revolution, per-se.
4. Energy independence.
5. Tibet
And literally dozens of other issues, all more important to the world and the USA then the problem which militant Islam created for itself and wishes to blame on the Jews with abundant help from the white anti-Jews (and amazingly, even some Jews).
The exact same people who believe that undocumented Mexicans, who have been in the USA for 10-minutes have rights to remain, nonetheless would also assert that Palestinian-Arabs born in Syria or Jordan or Lebanon and claiming “refugee” status have no rights to remain where they were born and instead, have rights to immigrate to Israel--where they have never set foot. Only Jews are subjected to such double-standards of fairness and such has been the same case for 2,000 years.
I have no more patience for Jew-haters and I will not apologize for the Jewish nation, which was born by not one but two sets of international laws, 30 years apart. Those who condemn Israel do so by re-arranging history in cheap dime-store tactics, like the shake-hands buzzer or the chewing gum that turns one’s teeth black. The fact that a mob is gathering to affirm the gross revisions of history is unimpressive to me because it is EXACTLY the same sequence which has repeated itself throughout recorded history. Jews created the black plague (penalty—death) Jews were guilty of “host desecration” (alleged abuse of communion wafers in the dark ages—penalty death). Jews poisoning Gentile wells (penalty--death). Jews were responsible for the introduction of African blood, in order to pollute the pure Arian bloodlines (penalty—death) Etc., etc.. In reality, Jews are responsible for only one crime, being more collectively advanced then their detractors. Of course the ignorant use further ignorance to promote their ignorance. What other intellectual weapon have they?
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 7, 2008 9:57:06 PMRespond ^
I wish to report bozhidar bob balkas for ebgaging in anti-semitic remarks and besides, for being a 'gavone'.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 7, 2008 10:02:08 PMRespond ^
I agree with Mr. Ferguson's view. However, we are assuming the US has a neutral role in this complex conflict. Unfortunately, our $6 billion/year in foreign aid to Israel doesn't help matters. Likewise, our consistently pro-Israel legislation doesn't either. There are reasons Palestinians don't trust the US to be a neutral host to a peace process - a biased party cannot be neutral. Perhaps if we stop funding both sides and allow a truly neutral 3rd party to help them negotiate, maybe then we would see some results.
Posted by:BasharApril 7, 2008 10:10:11 PMRespond ^
Israel has already committed itself to a one state solution. The only question is whether there is room for Arabs in it. Get used to it.
Posted by:johnApril 7, 2008 11:49:06 PMRespond ^
John:
There is already a 2-State status. The second state is called: 'Jordan' and it used to be known as "Palestine" for 1,900 out of the past 2,000 years. The Hebrews have been offering a THREE state solution since 1948, which the Arabs have consistantly either rejected outright or, more recently, covered their rejections with abserd demands such as the patriotion of 5-million so called "refugees" into Israel proper (Arafat intafata of year 2,000).
The "Jordanian Citizenship Laws" of 1967 (BTW) call for citizenship to automatically be granted to all people Jordan aquired with its aquisition of Palestine, but specifically EXCLUDES Jews. The same is true of the more recent Iraqi "right of return" which singles out Jews for exclusion in its new constitution.
Lies are not merely the enemy of the Jews, they are the enemy of mankind.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 8, 2008 4:19:52 AMRespond ^
Greg, the relationship between Israelis and Palestinians today is nothing like the Apartheid state of South Africa. In fact, the South African Jews were at the forefront of combating the racial discrimination against blacks in South Africa. For more on this whole topic, I recommend Prof. Gideon Shimoni's work: "Jews and Zionism: The South African Experience"
Posted by:StephanieApril 9, 2008 12:05:42 AMRespond ^
To the anti-Jew, not only is everything Jewish automatically bad and unjust but everything which is unjust eventually becomes associated with Jews.
Thus, Israel becomes not only an "apartheid", 'Nazi' regime but the 'well-spring' of all the world's problems.
Posted by:TrollsteinApril 9, 2008 6:15:37 AMRespond ^
"Moslem brothers" ?
I would like to ask the editor to throw your slanderous crap out of here.
Posted by:Frank LornitzoApril 9, 2008 7:05:50 PMRespond ^
Billay isn't what hey made us think they were in the 90's. Win at any cost and hey are bought and pd for by the AMA, the oil industry, etc. They are anti African American and definity anti semites. I dspise her. I have supported barack from the start and will continue to do so. Someone ought to send this to Wolf Blitzer. We need more press over the poor VICTIM..they millionire many times over , Billary Clinton. They are as bad as the Bushes.
Posted by:Deborah LescoApril 11, 2008 9:59:42 AMRespond ^
Mccain, Obama, Clinton....(our government)...
They're all beholden to the Jew, oops,I'm sorry, to the Israelis.
You mine as well make Tel Aviv the U.S. Capital and Israel the 51st.state!!
Posted by:garryApril 14, 2008 12:18:28 AMRespond ^
What did you expect Hillary to say? She's always been completely controlled by the Lobby, and it's a Zionist cabal that runs her present campaign.
Posted by:Dick FitzgeraldApril 14, 2008 9:05:24 PMRespond ^
Israel has no borders nor constitution because it hasn't finished stealing all of the land. Ben Gurion, Golda, and all of the other Zionist terrorists have one goal in mind stated over and over and over. Eretz Israel.
Why do we even bother discussing any kind of peace when the Zionists have no intention of creating peace. Ever.
Posted by:BARRYApril 15, 2008 12:32:12 PMRespond ^
Troll: To the anti-Jew, not only is everything Jewish automatically bad and unjust but everything which is unjust eventually becomes associated with Jews.
Thus, Israel becomes not only an "apartheid", 'Nazi' regime but the 'well-spring' of all the world's problems.

Remarkable.
Zionism is clearly a mental illness.
Posted by:BarryApril 15, 2008 12:41:58 PMRespond ^
She is a liar and cares for no one but herself no morals sums it up .
Posted by:somegalApril 16, 2008 1:39:15 PMRespond ^
Hi Mom!
Posted by:Jim BernardApril 17, 2008 10:42:02 PMRespond ^
The comparison withother people is nonesense as the american people do not support or fund any nation as much as it does isreal, and the american people don't need the permission of those other nations to get an "elected" representative into government. The isreali lobby almost dictates who get into the american senate, why is this? Because the americans felt sorry for the jews after ww2 and they took full advantage of this sympathy to do in america exactly what the germans accussed them of doing in the lead up to the second world conflict. If america does not deal with this issue, it will remain in a position where it needs jewish permission to get people elected. The current ass kissing is not by accident, and the current war on terror is not by accident, it is exactly what is in isreals interest.
Posted by:ThomasApril 23, 2008 5:56:33 AMRespond ^
wouodn't such actions she is talking about cause the price of oil to rise, and thus cause american economy serious problems? She has put isreal before americas interests, why don't americans ask her about this?
Posted by:A.ParkerApril 23, 2008 5:59:38 AMRespond ^
The Senator from New York certainly sings a tune different from the one she used to sing when she spoke of Palestinian suffering.
Posted by:mackApril 24, 2008 8:38:20 AMRespond ^
Tom Wood: You, the US, haven't supported Israel since 1948. You have supported Israel gradually since you saw that it is profits the US defense, economic and political interests, since 1968. The US annual support for Israel is about 2.9$ billion and as a matter of fact it is direct assistance to the US military industry. This money oils the wheels of the military industry market and keep the jobs of hundred of thousands of employees alive. Israel tried twice in the 80th to lower the size of that assistance but the US government persuaded them to keep the assistance as it is because more of the 80% of that aid is finding the way back to the US industries.

For decades, the United States and Israel have maintained strong bilateral relations based on a number of factors, including strong domestic U.S. support for Israel; shared strategic goals; shared democratic values; and historic ties dating back to U.S. support for the creation of Israel in 1948 (Which renewed in 1968). U.S. economic and military aid has been a major component in cementing and reinforcing these ties based on both interests.

Strategic relations with Israel are the among the better investments of US. You have to remember the US gives Israel 2.8 billion loan a year in order to buy US products. Israel spends most of the money in the US market and helps having it rolling. Israel spends 80% of the money for U.S. military and manufacturers' purchases. A small help, one would say, but very unique, because those purchases help the US military industry to maintain jobs for hundred of thousands of workers, because Israel shares intelligence, technological and scientific information, know-how, unique experience in developing electronic and avionic matters, inventing and building high-tech platforms and military goods with the US. Arrow missiles, UAVs (Israel has been the first and most competent developer of UAVs and now leads in that field), C3I, Avionics, fighting techniques in urban and desert combat and more.

For years, Israel has been America's secret weapon in defending the interests and lives of Americans for the United States. Late General George Keegan once said that: "Israel is worth 5 CIAs". Israel gave to the US every information and materials of Soviet missile systems, radar systems, ammunition and planes - all of which were sent back to America for inspection. Billions of dollars would have been spent on reverse engineering to learn how to defend against them had U.S. industry NOT had the captured Soviet equipment which Israel sent to America. Israel's assistance shortened the number of man-hours and money and ensured the quality to develop counter-measures against Soviet technology, missiles, radar multi frequencies and more. Israel, despite her minuscule size, gave back to her ally, America, more than any other nation ever had. RIP Israel's haters and let the free world flourish!!!

* Larry D. Mosley said: "Jerusalem does not belong to the State of Israel. Jerusalem belongs to the world" – That is resembles the saying that NY doesn't belong to the US but to the UN and to the world. That's just a pity Shiity trash.

Btw, I think that Trollstein is the most intelligence, clever and trustable poster around here and I agree with his concept of interpretation the political actions in the ME.
Posted by:Abe BirdApril 28, 2008 5:06:48 AMRespond ^

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