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"If the Detainee Dies, You're Doing It Wrong"

News: A Senate investigation uncovers how torture entered the military's post-9/11 playbook.

June 18, 2008


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Over the objections of senior lawyers across the military, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, acting on the advice of the Pentagon's General Counsel William "Jim" Haynes, approved the use of 15 harsh interrogation techniques on detainees held at the US detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Rumsfeld's December 2, 2002, decision has been widely reported, but the fact that the techniques he approved were heavily questioned just one month earlier—including by senior military officials in the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines—was revealed on Tuesday during a hearing held by the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"While it has been known for some time that military lawyers voiced strong objections to interrogation techniques in early 2003," said committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.), "these November 2002 warnings from the military services—expressed before the Secretary of Defense authorized the use of aggressive techniques—were not publicly known before now."

At the hearing, former defense officials, including Haynes and Richard Shiffrin, the Pentagon's onetime deputy general counsel for intelligence, as well as retired Lt. Colonel Daniel Baumgartner, faced tough questioning from Democratic members of the panel about their roles in institutionalizing those very techniques. According to documents distributed by the committee, Shiffrin, acting on Haynes' behalf in 2002, called upon Baumgartner, the former chief of staff at the Pentagon's Joint Personnel Recovery Agency, to provide military attorneys with a list of harsh interrogation methods that US soldiers are trained to withstand at JPRA's Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape (SERE) training schools. Both Shiffrin and Baumgartner denied knowing that the information they provided to Haynes would be used as the basis for detainee interrogations in three countries. Haynes said he could not recall the details of his role in the process.

Also testifying on Tuesday was retired Lt. Colonel Diane Beaver, who in October 2002 penned a legal opinion in which she "concluded that certain aggressive interrogation techniques...were lawful."

"I have been vilified by some because of it," she told the panel, "and discounted and forgotten by many others."

Under questioning from Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) about the legal soundness of her memo, which paved the way for the use of techniques like waterboarding and sleep deprivation, Beaver, once a top military lawyer at Gitmo, demurred. "If I asked you if the UCMJ [Uniform Code of Military Justice] prohibited waterboarding, what would you say?" asked Graham, a former Air Force lawyer. "It's difficult to say," Beaver responded.

In that memo, though, Beaver writes that, in order to circumvent various legal prohibitions to techniques like waterboarding, "[i]t would be advisable to have permission or immunity in advance from the convening authority, for military members utilizing these methods." Nonetheless, her opinion, which panelist and former Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora described as "an inadequate treatment of very serious and sensitive issues," met almost no opposition from civilian and military officials and, for a short time, became the legal basis for the DOD's use of harsh interrogation tactics. In his testimony before the committee, Mora referred to the techniques as "cruel," saying they "could easily rise to the level of torture."

During a brief recess, I asked Mora how the US government can mitigate the harm done to the country's world standing by these policies, and how best to hold the architects accountable for their actions. Mora suggested that government leaders need to "create a common language with our allies that goes beyond the protections of Geneva," referring to the United Nations Agreements on Human Rights known as the Geneva Conventions. How to hold former public officials accountable for implementing these methods, he added, "is a difficult question. Politically speaking, achieving an agreed-upon framework with our allies going forward may require forgiving past transgressions. And that's a concern. That's a problem."

In his opening statement—an unusually long and thorough one for a congressional hearing—Levin provided an exhaustive history of the origins of the government's program of torturing prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, a program which later spread to Afghanistan and Iraq.

In 2002, senior Pentagon officials, including Shiffrin, sought and received information from Baumgartner about techniques used at SERE. At those facilities, members of the military are subjected to mock interrogations, to prepare them for the possibility of capture—and potentially, torture—by an enemy regime.

The schools' training program, which, at some facilities, includes the use of waterboarding, quickly became the practical basis for the department's own methods of interrogating prisoners at Guantanamo. Under questioning from Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), Shiffrin admitted that "there was probably some discussion at some point about 'reverse engineering' SERE techniques." And, indeed, on December 30, 2002, two Navy SERE instructors arrived in Cuba to teach approximately two dozen interrogation personnel how to question detainees. Some of those trained by the SERE teachers were later instructed by their own superiors not to use those methods. Others were not.

Once approved for use in Guantanamo, the SERE techniques were forwarded to US military officials in Afghanistan and shown to interrogators in January 2003, just one month after Rumsfeld allowed them. Several weeks later, after the Iraq War had begun, the techniques became standard operating procedure for all US forces there, including those stationed at Abu Ghraib.

A month after he greenlighted them, Rumsfeld rescinded his approval of the 15 techniques, at least in part because of objections Mora brought to Haynes. But, just as quickly, Rumsfeld established a "working group" to examine interrogation techniques and create a legal framework that would protect military and defense officials from reprisals in the event that their conduct was later deemed to be torture. Shortly after the working group completed its report, Rumsfeld authorized another set of techniques—24 in all—and this time he included some wiggle room: "If, in your view," Rumsfeld wrote, "you require additional interrogation techniques for a particular detainee, you should provide me...a written request describing the proposed technique, recommended safeguards, and the rationale for applying it with an identified detainee."

It's difficult, therefore, to know precisely what limits governed Pentagon-approved interrogations for months thereafter. But if the agency took the advice of the CIA, there may have been very few restrictions. On October 2, 2002, senior CIA attorney Jonathan Fredman met with staff at Guantanamo to discuss harsh interrogation. "It's basically subject to perception," Fredman said, according to minutes of the meeting. "If the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong."

Photo by flickr user burge5000 used under a Creative Commons license.

Brian Beutler is the Washington correspondent for the Media Consortium, a network of progressive media organizations, including Mother Jones.



 

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...and if you do it right, you get timely, meaningful, useful, accurate, reliable and sane information??? Who believes that????
Posted by:ken hinesJune 18, 2008 11:56:26 AMRespond ^
'the techniques became standard operating procedure for all US forces there'

I disagree with the use of torture, but some of your facts, or assertions rather, are false. This article seems to infer that torture was SOP for all US Forces there. I was there, twice, and handled detainees often. NONE of them were tortured. You can say what you like, but please keep your facts and opinions seperate.
Posted by:CMillerJune 18, 2008 5:05:22 PMRespond ^
Clearly the cat is now "out of the bag". the sad part is, with Dictator Bush at teh helm, it will all be neatly swept under the rug.

JT
www.FireMe.To/udi
Posted by:John thomasJune 19, 2008 7:04:13 AMRespond ^
These are people who would gladly kill you and your family just for being a U.S. citizen and you think just asking them where the bad guys are is going to get anything? Wow.

Granted it is unfair if one or two innocent people get treated like criminals along the way but when it comes to my family and friend's safety, interrogating 1 to save 1000 is not wrong, in fact it would be morally wrong not to.

Some of these animals were trained from birth to hate and kill. Sorry I don't believe that they should be given the same treatment as a normal compassionate, moral human being.
Posted by:TylerJune 19, 2008 7:42:37 AMRespond ^
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature (such as the mother jones crowd) and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.-- John Stuart Mill
Posted by:RaulJune 19, 2008 7:53:23 AMRespond ^
When we act like this, we are no better than the enemy. Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney and any and all who were involved should be prosecuted for war crimes. We would expect no less if this was happening to our troops in another country. In fact, we have sought war crimes prosecutions of individuals for far less than these men have perpetrated.
Posted by:LyndonJune 19, 2008 8:51:06 AMRespond ^
i wish all Americans would be struck mute by your christian god because the only thing worse then watching you ruin the world is listening to you pick scapegoats
Posted by:walt disney jr.June 19, 2008 9:34:20 AMRespond ^
Then you don't believe in the Constitution. That's okay, you're not required to, but don't call yourself a US Citizen while condoning torture.
Posted by:BJJune 19, 2008 9:41:35 AMRespond ^
A horror, now that our worst fears about Bush and his administration are coming to light – and it’s much worse than we originally feared or imagined. The twisting and perversion of legal and moral principles while trying to craft immunity for their misdeeds reveals the glaring fact that this is a rogue administration. Their attempt to effect a coup against career and long-established government officials, whose opinions did not support their Cheney-inspired radicalism, was deliberate, unified and planned, as seen in their efforts across the board: running over the career Defense and military lawyers who advised that torture was illegal was only one front in a many-pronged attack; they attempted to “starve the beast” of government, de-funding everything, then watched Katrina like Nero fiddling while Rome burned; they forced out lawyers in the Justice Dept. who long oversaw the enforcement of voting rights laws. In a special category, however, the Iraqi War malfeasance practiced by the rogue rebels from history, with the help of their generals, are tainted with the deaths of thousands of soldiers and civilians on both sides. See my antiwar blog for more uncensored commentary, at http://www.wrathofmcgrath.com
Posted by:Jim McGrathJune 19, 2008 10:57:41 AMRespond ^
Tyler-most people would probably agree that it is acceptable to "interrogate" 1 person to save 1000, but when is this scenario actually the case (outside of "24"). Your argument has been played to death (remember the questioning of republican canidates?), and it seems obvious that the vast majority of prisoners and detainees "interrogated" (meaning abused and/or tortured) are small fry jihadists, innocent bystanders and POW's. We treat actual killers and criminals in our own country much better-they have lawyers.
Posted by:Andy KJune 19, 2008 9:19:35 PMRespond ^
Anyone who disagrees with torture for information should wake up and look at what world we live in. The information gathered has probably saved your life already, or someone you know.
Posted by:Sean GriffonJune 20, 2008 8:01:21 AMRespond ^
The essence of government building power is in setting precedents. With relatively little outcry from most Americans and the media, the precedent has effectively been established that the government can administer torture with impunity. With American citizens Jose Padilla and Yasir Esam Hamdi, and Iraqi women and children being among the government's victims, how much longer will it be before the government claims the right to abuse and torture Americans accused of murder, rape, pedophilia, or even shoplifting? How much longer until the government wants to torture JUVENILE Americans for their crimes, since our government has few qualms about torturing Iraqi children? After all, terrorism grows from the seeds of smaller crimes, doesn't it? The precedents have been established, and we can look forward to the government setting new precedents in which it sells depraved Americans on the notion that torture is the best way to administer justice and deter crime.
Posted by:Robert KieferJune 20, 2008 12:01:35 PMRespond ^
Torture is NOT an acceptable or effective means to gain information. It is used by only those whom have no respect for life or decency. These "Terrorists", as they are called are no more than the result of the US government's continued meddling in the affairs of sovereign nations on behalf of big oil and other oppressive speculators. US only digs a deeper hole from which it cannot dig out of, when we torture and humiliate others.
Posted by:David RadovanovicJune 20, 2008 2:49:39 PMRespond ^
With more of these revelations open to the
general public,it has become more and more clearly evident that the Military has been
taken over by the " Israeli Gov" as well !
Posted by:JohnJune 20, 2008 4:15:07 PMRespond ^
Oh,so true and totally correct!
When will the american public wake up and
see what is going on in the White House.
There is only one way out: vote Obama !
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/ritter.php?articleid=12064
http://www.truthdig.com/report/prin t/20070702_a_declaration_of_independence_from_israel/
Posted by:BrianJune 20, 2008 6:02:12 PMRespond ^
Anyone who approves of torture is evil. There is no Global War on Terror -- it is US War of ERROR. Remember, we had no justification to invade Iraq. After over 5 long years, much death and blood baths, the USA is still trying to help IRAQ Build and maintain a military and police force!!! We can't even get the Iraqis up to snuff to defend themselves. Too many unanswered questions. TORTURE IS NOT THE ANSWER. Who teaches Who how to torture? How does it affect the The Torturer when they return home to families? Can you torture a human for long period of time and come home and just flip back to ''normal?'' WHY are we torturing Iraqis when it was SAUDIS who flew the planes and where in the world is Osama bin Laden and why is he free?
Posted by:myrakJune 21, 2008 1:03:56 AMRespond ^
...of those ordinary, compassionate human beings. If you do it to just one and get away with it, next time it could be you or a member of your family.
Posted by:And I Suppose You're OneJune 21, 2008 6:08:31 AMRespond ^
A life that is "saved" by savagely attacking another human being is a pitiful life indeed.
Posted by:CarolJune 21, 2008 6:11:52 AMRespond ^
tyler, sorry but i used to believe that,now i see it's a cover up to escape guilt. we have become them. and many here are raised from birth to hate and kill. i see it in the papers daily, the racism,sexism,eta al. while i like to believe compassion and good will ultimatily win out; i currently see how we have become worse than most nations,and yes i am ashamed of that.i served this country long ago and also now know i was just a stupid,testosterone filled kid who could be rallied to any "noble" cause. and that's where i first learned the 1 for a 1000 rule/crutch.older now and converted to coexisting w/others i went on a journey to see how the world see's our hx. it's not pretty. even iran i right. a country who hasn't started a war in 250 years being lectured by one that used the bomb and made the rules of war always fit for our current crimes,yes crimes. our country is now guilty of war crimes and should be tried on the world stage. the torture we are using is some of the worst of any countries. may what ever god forgive us.
Posted by:deep thoughtJune 21, 2008 12:42:33 PMRespond ^
The people behind these highly illegal acts should, and must imprisoned for a long long time, without the possibility of amunity or parole....
Posted by:willie duffieJune 22, 2008 8:12:38 AMRespond ^
War is never moral. Swords do not gleam with a flash of justice. Victory belongs to the bully with the bigger stick. Glorifying war, condoning torture; this is the business of revisionists and spin-doctors.
Posted by:C.M. BaronsJune 22, 2008 8:45:14 AMRespond ^
Those who believe extreme interrogation techniques are effective should actually read something (yes, I know it's a harsh punishment), and cease relying upon Fox "News" as their only source of "information."

Well trained intelligence agency interrogators have long known that detainees will eventually "admit" anything to avoid more torture. The "yellow-orange-red" security level warnings the administration employed prior to the 2004 elections, in addition to being used politically, were based largely upon the false "confessions" of a single detainee who was later proved in no way connected with Al Qaeda or any other terrorist group activity. Simply wanting to end his pain, the man told his interrogators everything they wanted to hear, and they, of course, ate it up with a spoon.

I strongly suspect those in favor of "harsh" interrogation (i.e., torture) believe we should now torture the guy for feeding false information.
Posted by:Rod TannerJune 22, 2008 9:12:07 AMRespond ^
Three words. War Crime Trials.
Posted by:EricJune 22, 2008 7:55:02 PMRespond ^

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