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News: What happens to Iraq veterans who speak out against the war?

September 29, 2008


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On the fourth anniversary of the start of the Iraq War, in March 2007, Marines Adam Kokesh and Cloy Richards joined a group of other Iraq Veterans Against the War in a mock combat patrol in Washington, DC. Wearing fatigues, a uniquely powerful symbol at a war protest, they pretended to arrest fellow protesters, throwing them to the ground, zip tying them, and leading them away. Other IVAW members passed out fliers explaining the guerrilla theater and noting that it wasn't sanctioned by the military.

Not long after, the two Marines, both of whom had served tours in Iraq, were notified that they were under investigation for potential violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The code mandates that soldiers who wear uniforms at political events may be penalized with an "other than honorable" discharge, one step above a dishonorable discharge; they can lose health benefits and be forced to repay grants, including GI bill assistance.

The probe came even though technically, Kokesh and Richards weren't bound by the UCMJ at the time of the protest: They were part of the Individual Ready Reserves, a group of soldiers who've left active duty but still have time remaining on their eight-year military contracts. IRR status is mostly unpaid, and legally civilian.

Kokesh promptly fired off an email to his deputy commander, refusing to cooperate with an investigation he viewed as "political harassment." He wrote, "I am deeply offended by the attempt to keep me under the thumb of the organization to which I pledged my life and served so devotedly." The commander responded that Kokesh was being recommended for discharge; Kokesh, in turn, demanded a public hearing. At the hearing, in June 2007, with throngs of supporters and media standing outside the Marine Corps Mobilization Command in Kansas City, a panel of officers imposed a general discharge—the military equivalent of a C-minus report card, but with benefits intact.

For Richards, events unfolded differently. He had too much at stake to fight, having been recently diagnosed with 80 percent combat disability: He had sustained a brain injury during a mortar attack, was on the waiting list for knee surgery after an accident involving a cannon, and had attempted suicide multiple times due to severe PTSD. Upon learning of the investigation, he stopped wearing his uniform at protests.

The number of vocally anti-war soldiers appears to be growing. The IVAW alone signs up 12 to 15 new members each week; one-third of their 1,300 members have joined since February. Appeal for Redress, an online petition to end the war, has gathered more than 2,200 soldiers' signatures since late 2006. "You take an average group of soldiers and ask them, 'Is the war worth it?' and you get close to a majority saying it is not really necessary or viable," says David Cortright, author of Soldiers in Revolt: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War, who has been touring and speaking at bases. "The anti-war sentiments are much more pervasive now in Iraq."

As a result, soldiers say, the military is increasingly trying to silence them with formal threats as well as less official intimidation techniques: At their own discretion, commanders can enact "non-judicial punishments," such as imposing a diet of bread and water, enforcing longer work hours, and requiring intensive physical activity like hauling sandbags back and forth or running for hours in full gear.

"There has definitely been an uptick in complaints," according to Mike Lebowitz, Kokesh's lawyer and a National Guard officer, who receives up to five emails per week from soldiers or their families seeking legal advice related to anti-war activities. He specializes in military free speech. "The military is infamous for punishing people for expressing political beliefs," he says. "The intimidation or threat of ramifications to soldiers is very pronounced."

In the heyday of the GI protest movement during the Vietnam War, draftees might have been thrilled to be threatened with a discharge; a popular underground cartoon depicted a soldier refusing to fight, with the caption, "What are you going to do, fire me?" In today's volunteer force, many enlistees are career soldiers who can be fiercely protective of their benefits, pensions, and wages—which, advocates say, makes them more vulnerable to intimidation.

Even some historically conservative veterans' organizations say limits on speech have gone too far. "I may disagree with [these soldiers'] message, but I will always defend their right to say it," says VFW head Gary Kurpius. In the Kokesh case, he says it's clear that the military is "trying to hush up and punish" the reservist, via "a form of first-amendment-rights suppression."

To be sure, when they enlist, soldiers knowingly forfeit some of the freedoms they enjoyed as citizens. The military is required to maintain political neutrality; political activity is allowed only when soldiers are off duty and out of uniform, and if they make it clear they are not speaking on behalf of the military. But enforcement of these rules, soldiers say, is haphazard, with charges such as "disloyalty, contempt, and unbecoming behavior" applied disproportionately for anti-war activities. (The UCMJ's Article 134 gives the brass a great deal of leeway, allowing punishment for any activity that "threatens good order and discipline" or brings "discredit upon the armed forces.")

In February, the Pentagon reissued its official directive regarding soldiers' political activities, as is common during election years, with a few additional restrictions. Soldiers, it said, can write letters to the editor, but they can't participate in organized letter-writing campaigns; nor can they display political signs larger than bumper stickers on their cars. While on duty or in uniform, they can't use "contemptuous words" when describing high-ranking government officials or participate in partisan campaigns. Most notably, the rules for the first time apply to National Guard and Reserve soldiers, who are being deployed at unprecedented levels.

"It's hard to explain how much the military has control over your entire life," says Sergeant Selena Coppa, a career Army soldier and single mom. She faced retaliation starting in 2007 after criticizing the war to fellow soldiers and at an IVAW protest. The Army launched an inquiry, but she was never formally charged. "The investigation was seamless and easy," says Coppa. "It was the informal retaliation that was severe." According to Coppa, one superior officer threatened to have her committed to Walter Reed's psych ward. He also claimed he'd provide her ex-husband, against whom she had a restraining order, with her address. Fearing reprisal, Coppa didn't report the threats, which means there is no paper trail of the incident. But, she says gravely, "It is not unreasonable for a soldier to not want to speak out against the war."

Army spokesperson Lt. Colonel Anne Edgecomb says her office is unaware of instances of informal retaliation and states that such behavior "would undermine good order and discipline" among the ranks. But, she adds, "If someone is unwilling to operate within the prescribed limitations, he or she should not join in the first place." Aside from appearing before a discharge review board, there are few avenues for recourse in disciplinary matters. Filing a report with the Pentagon's inspector general's office leads to an investigation involving unit command, which many believe will instigate more harassment. According to Lebowitz, "The public won't hear about 95 percent of these cases because soldiers just want to quietly resolve them and move on, with as few repercussions as possible."

Under the Military Whistleblower Protection Act soldiers may take their grievances to Congress, but that involves risks as well. The Appeal for Redress site explains in great detail that soldiers who sign are protected by the Whistleblower statute. Even so, founder Jonathan Hutto says many are still too scared to sign. Seemingly with good reason: After signing the appeal last year, and shortly thereafter vocalizing her thoughts on the war to the New York Times, Air Force Sergeant Tassi McKee was suspended from her work assignment, stripped of her security clearance, and interrogated by superiors. Her complaint to the IG earned her back her military assignment, but her reputation among superiors remained tarnished.

Since his hearing, Kokesh, who now studies political management at George Washington University's graduate school, has received scores of emails from soldiers and veterans thanking him for speaking up. He testified before Congress last May about his experience and has participated in numerous IVAW events—in uniform. Even Richards, inspired by Kokesh, has found a way to keep protesting, but through poetry, and much farther from the limelight.

*Correction appended: An earlier version of this story neglected to mention the fact that Air Force Sergeant Tassi McKee spoke out to the New York Times about her thoughts on war after signing the appeal, which contributed to her being apprehended.

Justine Sharrock is a contributing writer for Mother Jones.



 

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Comments:

This is why the next CIC needs to relinquish those executive powers and restore balance to the three branches of government again. In the long run, this is the most important task the next president must achieve in his four years.

Go Obama!
Posted by:Lyssa BarnesSeptember 29, 2008 11:48:23 AMRespond ^
Man this is really scary stuff. Is ACLU on it yet?
Posted by:JOEL KAUFFMANSeptember 29, 2008 3:30:05 PMRespond ^
The officers attempting to punish free speach are violating their oath to uphold the constitution. They should be summarily discharge under less than honorable circumstances.
Posted by:billybookwormSeptember 29, 2008 4:13:31 PMRespond ^
The Army has such a hold on our young Soldiers that it amazes me everytime someone does have the courage to speak up.

On another note, I owe Mike Lebowitz my entire military pension. The command came down on me hard, and he stuck up for me and got me completely vindicated so that I could retire with dignity and full benefits.
Posted by:Army NCOSeptember 29, 2008 4:29:43 PMRespond ^
AS A VIET NAM ERA VET{DRAFTED} WOULD NEVER AGAIN BE DRAFTED, I AM APPALLED AT THE LACK OF REJECTION TO GOVT. POLICIES BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC. NO MONSTER DEMONTRATIONS. HAS THE AMERICAN PUBLIC(SHEEPLE) BEEN SO INDOCTRINATED, THAT WE NO LONGER NO RIGHT FROM WRONG?
Posted by:JOHN BROOKSSeptember 29, 2008 5:02:22 PMRespond ^
it's the y generation. they are completely and utterly disinterested in anything that hasn't been 'properly' branded and marketed. for example, look at the democratic primaries.

"political demonstration? omg, that's so uncool."
Posted by:bazookaSeptember 29, 2008 7:07:52 PMRespond ^
This just goes to show that absolute power corrupts.We as citizens of this great country have had our freedom of speach rights removed and the very ones that have given all for that right are suffering the most.This President has crowned himself Ruler Supreme and hidden behind Executive Priveledge for way too long.Hopefully our new Commander in Chief will restore dignity to his office and only use our forces to protect us and the world from falling prey to the forces that would harm our saftey,instead of occupying contries to export their welth and freedom to the SUPER RICH Tyrants called wall street.
Posted by:Michael BELLSeptember 29, 2008 7:27:03 PMRespond ^
I don't think it really matters a whole lot what the 'Joes' think. And, here's why: Refer back to Smedley Darlington Butler, who ultimately ended up siding with the Bonus Army stationed in their Hooverville encampments. Encampments that were driven out of the Capitol by forces directed by Patton and McArthur, I believe. Butler felt strongly against the war(s) that he'd been involved in, although he was apparently rather talented at the whole war thing, Major General and CMOH awardee and so forth, but his/their efforts to change the general path of things and get the soldiers their promised bonuses resulted in disappointment and violence. And, that's about what I think is going to end up happening here. Note that the story talks about health benefits and so forth. That seems to be a rather common method of coercing and blackmailing people these days, taking away their 'benefits', and you have to go through all these hoops to get an employer to help you get said benefits, promises promises, I say, the DOW just lost almost 800 points in one day, I forecast that some healthcare companies are going to be going out of business or restructuring and being taken private in the interest of keeping the actual hospitals open, there's so much money in the mix these days that's the driving force for the war, and there's so much corruption, incompetence, and gross mismanagement, and a long-standing lack of public accountability that accompanies all these Sagan-esque sums, I think that, given time, a lot of stuff is going to shake itself out, and the opponents of the war are going to recieve one reward: The capacity to say,'TOLD YA'!
But, at what expense? If you track the news at all, then you might have latched onto the fact that this country, the US of A, is awash in red ink. We're import-heavy, have been for years, import goods, import oil, sell debt, not a tenable position, financially. I think we're generally going to be in for some hard times, and ultimately that means the military's going to have to cut back too. I read that there's supposed to be something like 700 military bases now, that's got to cost a lot of money. But, who gets it all? Boeing shareholders? CEO's? Oil magnates and foreign royalty? The company that makes the bullets? Unions?
I 'vote' for a return home from Iraq, for what it's worth. Alas, a lowly peon doesn't get to 'drive' this train, but from all appearances, there does seem to be another train on the track headed in the opposite direction, called the Reality Express. Those cinders sure look painful, but better to bounce and roll around in those and risk a sprained ankle than still be aboard when the global agenda people finally succeed in stacking up our military but good. In other words, as a soldier, you have to stop, and review your Oath. That whole, "I, state your name,..."(NO, state YOUR name), and deciderer if what's going on/has gone on matches with your estimationer of the Consetushinor. This is where there comes a division line between 'soldier', and 'mercenary'. That blank-blanked piece of paper. Technicalities? Yeppers, techicalities like the Geneva Conventions, which partially sprang from the Nuremberg trials, which taught us that "I vass chust followink ordters" was NOT the correct answer.

I pronounce 'corruption'. And, it's far from being exclusively an American problem. But, anytime you talk about an institution that has the physical ability to basically park a tank anywhere in the world that it darn well feels like, you're going to see ambition raise its' ugly head, and that's where they're supposed to be talking about all the lessons learned and all that, but it really comes down to Congress, and their capacity to exercise control and oversight over the military, and how much money goes out the door, and for what, and and and, and whether or not they've got something that starts looking and acting like domestic royalty in our own country on a quest for empire.
I was once in the service, got out years ago, and I got out because frankly I started having my doubts. I saw some stuff, or at least thought that I did, that I felt merited further consideration and questioning prior to wearing the uniform again. And, those questions I think are at least partially illustrated here. They can have their machine guns, their mega-budgets, their global this and global that, I think we, as a Nation, crossed the proverbial Rubicon a long time ago in terms of the fabled military-industrial complex, and now live in a day and age when abilitationer equals permissional, more or less, and it's gotten that way because people kind of gave up on trying to participate in government, due to insiders, unions, and other shut-out stuff that results in a ballot that leaves you choosing between Clown #1, and Clown #2, and doesn't really precipitate a lot of the decidering down to the Citizen level, and, if you've been watching the news these last several months, you never hear people called that anymore, you're a 'consumer' now, a statistic for all intents and purposes, and statistics are numbers, numbers don't have rights, numbers line up in columns, like little ASCII soldiers, marching across the mega-spreadsheets of marginal relevancy.
Meanwhile, there's a lot of people that aren't going to sleep too well tonight after the DOW's flogging. Tomorrow's another day, maybe if all these 'defense' outfits stop being profitable, there'll be less push for wars overseas, and more of an effort to bring a lot of our military home. I support that on basis of one final argument: It's been 6 years now, in Iraq. If it's not democracy by now, time to pull the plug. No more Vietnams. But, hard to see, the future is... \../
Posted by:BertSeptember 29, 2008 9:03:03 PMRespond ^
The Military Command from the highest levels in Wash D C LIE about deaths and incidents, e.g. Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch.

Abu Ghraib: Only Army Reservists met court martial and sent to prison for posing in pictures and immorality. The personnel who interrogated detainees (several interrogated to death) apparently never named, never tried, and not in prison.

The problem seems to be Lack of Leadership and lack of honor from the Top Down.
Posted by:Myra KinderknechtSeptember 29, 2008 9:33:44 PMRespond ^
to John Brooks:
It's because we don't have a draft anymore.A small percentage of the population bears the brunt of our misguided military crusades and the rest get to ignore it or be tough guys from well behind the front lines.My girlfriends brother was one of those(Rebublican of course) who was all for us being in the current wars, but he wasn't nearly as enthusiastic when she asked him when he was going to sign up.I think we need the draft reinstated with absolutely no deferements or exceptions.Everybodies kids from 18 to 35 go to the front lines for 2 years in whatever capacity, but all go to the front lines.Then you'll see the huge protests, especially from the parents when they realize their kids are going too.
Posted by:zqahttSeptember 29, 2008 9:41:14 PMRespond ^
First of all, bread and water and diminished rations punishments are prohibitted. Secondly, these men were not punished for protesting; they were punished for wearing their uniforms while protesting. They knew full well that was a violation of the UCMJ. They can speak and protest whenever they want, but they cannot speak for their entire branch or the military.
Posted by:AnonymousSeptember 29, 2008 11:44:58 PMRespond ^
It is a privilege to wear a military uniform. By wearing one to a demonstration w/o permission, you are mis-representing the uniform. IRR or otherwise, if you were granted dispensation from your original requirement, you are still bound by the rules of the game. Look at it this way, if you worked for a private company and said things in public detrimental to that private company while wearing their uniform, would you be invited to return? No.

Take the uniform off and the 1st Amendment is all yours. It's just that easy.

p.s. I thank all who are serving and that have served, no matter your opinion.
Posted by:JingoistSeptember 30, 2008 2:05:48 AMRespond ^
Are you really a "volunteer" if there are no other comparable options available to you in the private sector?
Posted by:JT BarrieSeptember 30, 2008 10:42:20 AMRespond ^
Jingoist,

A set of military fatigues is not in the same camp as a cop uniform. It's not a crime for a non-soldier to wear a set of fatigues (minus patches), so why in the world should it be an offense of any sort for an off-duty, off-UCMJ soldier to do so?

And zqahtt has got it exactly right. The enabling factor to all this aggression is the fact that law-makers by and large know that their own offspring will not be put in harm's way. The "volunteer" military is not really voluntary, if the only alternative a person has is to starve without a job, and watch one's family starve too. Recruiters target the segment of society they know need the money badly enough to take a critical risk to get it. No son or daughter of a member of congress is so bad off that they'll risk their life in a war zone for a chance at a decent wage.

This is why the Bush Twins should be drafted. First there would be the scandals about Daddy slipping them into the cushiest non-combatant staff slots. Then, when/if they actually had to go boulevarding in an up-armored Hummer, we'd finally get some non-combat options from the Decider's Orifice.

We should not artificially insulate our policy representatives from the consequences of their actions, even if those consequences include losing a son or daughter to hostile fire. America is a DEMOCRATIC representative republic -- those making the decisions for all of us need to share in the downside of those decisions, as well as the upside, or we aren't getting the REPRESENTATION we deserve and want.
Posted by:Dan MortensonSeptember 30, 2008 4:01:42 PMRespond ^
The word "sergeant" was spelled wrong...twice. You lose some the force of the article, especially among us military types, when you can't even spell-check a fairly common word. Article was good, but mind your editing!
Posted by:ScottOctober 1, 2008 7:17:25 AMRespond ^
Funny how only the enlisted man is in violation of rules. No one seems to reprimand the brass for squandering lives and the money of US taxpayers. In fact, they get rewarded money for violating the rules. Same old boring whining by those who are in leadership roles. Yes, roles. After all aren't they leading by example? The brass break the rules so the rank and file break the rules. What does wearing a uniform harm? It's who's in it and what they do. So let's see, wearing a uniform and exercising free speech or wearing a uniform and lying to Congress and stealing from the taxpayer. Which is a worse violation of rules? Hmmmm, let me th
Posted by:MoeOctober 1, 2008 8:48:03 AMRespond ^
The sad thing it will become a thing if John McCain (who loves the idea of being a war president) becomes president. He will bring the draft back. I will ship my son off to another country. I don't do it lightly because I come from a family with over 60yrs of military service. But this is crazy sending our young people off to a war in Iraq. The war on terroism should be done by different police agencies around the world. We shouldn't use troops.
Posted by:southernyankeeOctober 1, 2008 2:31:19 PMRespond ^
The war on terror IS done by police forces around the world. But the trouble is some of them cant be trusted, All of our live we are faced with racist comments from all around us. Stemming from Hitler and the Jews to Al Quaeda and the Americans. As a result of Governments propaganda we are left confused and in a position not knowing who is telling the truth. A soldiers actions are a direct reflection on its countries morals. Seriously what is the point of war anyway. Nobody achieves anything in the long run. Saddam Hussein was defending his countries oil reserves. The americans were trying to get fuel for their cars. OIL. It belongs under the ground it keeps our planet alive leave it where it is or we will all die. Oh and I would like to see these politicians send their children out into the war zone under the same conditions as everybody else. I believe Prince Harry made a change in that area. Why did they make him leave ? It is British tradition that the future King of the country stand out front and lead his army to victory. Prince Charles served in the Military. I have studied many European wars and the King usually stays till the battle has been won. I dont understand why he was made to leave when he expressed that he wanted to stay. According to many documentaries made on Prince Harry he is quite a marksman. I missed the one on Prince William so I cannot comment on him. Come on Charles let them be men too.

I read a movel written by an ex British Military man called Chris Ryan "the one who got away" and I would like to quote "once was enough for me".

If the governments award a pension to the returned war veterans. Surely they should have realised by now that it is a waste of their money and it would be better to have these men stay at home and learn a trade and help to develope the economy of their own country.

Come on guys how much do you need to be able to say WE WON THE WAR ?

Nobody wins the war, in the long run all it does is cost money.

Look back to the second world war. Many of the SS Officers are now being charges with war crimes. Dont you think that this is embarrassing to their country ? Raping and pillaging are not supposed to be part of a soldiers protocol. All it does is remind the rest of the world of what that country is really like.

How many "Superior Officers" are actually worthy of the title commanding officer ? And how many of them are just another pitiful excuse of human error? It all sounds a bit Roman like to me. Go back to your history books and look at what has been done in the past. We are currently experiencing a world wide food shortage. If all we do is train our men to be soldiers then who is really the loser.

I know that if my country was being invaded, the first thing I would do would be to set fire to all the crops JUST SO THE BASTARDS ENDED UP WITH NOTHING.

How long can anyone survive without food.

War is nothing more than a representation of SPITE and GREED.

You will never acually succeed in wiping out an entire race of people becuase some people are smarter than others.

Rule of educational succession. Smart parents breed smart kids. Honest soldiers breed Good warriors.

Executing your soldiers upon arrival home will leave you defenseless.


I worked as a bio chemist for twenty years. I know exactly what war is capable of doing to the people.

America you should have never interfered in the Vietnam war. You were fed Bull[deleted]. Once again you were fed Bull[deleted] about the war in Afghanistan too.

And of the rumour about it being the JEWS are true what do you expect ? E=MC2. We love you Albert Einstein. After all he was a German JEW.

I love to study WAR you can really see who the good nations really are.

But then how do we know its not really them. I mean manufacture guns and ammo sell it to a nation to destroy another and guess what TOURISM GOES BOOM.

Politics nothing more than a bunch of laws made to suit the politicol party on power at the time. Nobody really cares about the people.


OR DO THEY

Truth politicians dont really like to work.

Wiping our the general population is NOT A VERY SMART IDEA.

Treat the general public like [deleted] and they wont work.

CATCH 22

Back to the soldiers. Good on ya guys keep ya chin up and thank you for not making Australia look like the rst of the world we really are a nation of suckers.


WE LOVE YOU !!
Posted by:GROW UP DICKHEADOctober 2, 2008 10:01:12 AMRespond ^
It is entirely against the UCMJ for troops to wear their uniforms at political protests and they know it. They also know it is not allowable to speak with the press while in uniform unless authorized to do so. No one forces them into this commitment; they are all volunteers. However, intimidation because of differing political viewpoints is unacceptable, but unfortunately also very human. Believe me, it goes on in the public sector,as well, but is veiled in ways that are hard to pinpoint. Bottom line: be prepared to take the heat to express and defend your views so do it when and where it counts most. It's called being savvy.
Posted by:Lynne October 3, 2008 9:58:29 AMRespond ^
ATTENTION Lynne


WRONG - Its called trying to cover up the fact that the so called leaders of the country are trying to deny stealing lying and basicly backstabbing eachother to gain financial control of the worlds financial market.

There are too many smart arse ex militants that think that they know everything. When the truth is that they are nothing more that pawns in a stupid power struggle. Too man of these ex militants have children that are born rude and full of an anti war attitude. Fuelled by their ancestors regret for what they have done in the past.

Sometimes it is necessary for war. Cruel as it may seem but you all volunteered. Nobody made you go. If you do not obey the rules then there is no other choice but to punish you. I know a detective that has a bee in his bonnet because a certain higher ranking female officer caught him out not doing his job. A police officer is supposed to use their judgement in all situations and not victimise people in order to get revenge. Certain members in the security agency have been given privilged information and go on to use it to their own advantage after they are dismissed from the armed services.

Some people who have been in the military too long loose their ability to accept that they have had their turn and it is time to retire and allow the next generation to "ASSUME THEIR POSITION" in society.

What is your problem ?

Where are your children. I heard your son is a manic depressant and your own daughter has a very low opinion of you.

The truth is this you can try to hide from your mistakes but you cannot actually do it.

YOUR CONSCIENCE WILL ALWAYS LET YOU DOWN.

I have very little respect for any members of my family. They have a strong history of military service and basicly all they do is bark orders and try to outrank eachother. This is nothng more than bullying.


Peter Rose is a prime example of this.
Posted by:VICTIM OF CHILD NEGLECTOctober 6, 2008 2:15:33 AMRespond ^
The German told her his name was Peter Rose.

Posted by:OVER YOUR MISTAKESOctober 6, 2008 3:08:25 AMRespond ^
hey "victim of child neglect"

shut up.

I hate the war. I think war is inherrently evil. that does NOT mean we should disrespect soilders. Both of my parents were in the army, so i know where you're coming from, but pull your head out of your ass and look at the suffering of some one besides your worthless self. people are products of their environments, and the millitary is as strict as it gets. it trains ordinary people to become killers. that's the whole purpose of a millitary. If people are drilled again and agian on things, you can't expect them just to forget after they get out. My dad almost broke my arm once when i was younger. I had snuck up and jumped on him and he just reacted. he didn't mean to, he was simply responding as he had been trained. Millitary training leaves life-long habit. You're a completly insensitive, self-centered moron to expect people to throw of years of training just for you.

Grow up, cretin.
Posted by:Not self-absorbedOctober 6, 2008 6:49:34 PMRespond ^
Regular troops get hasseled, but Gen Stephen Blum can applaud George (oops) John McCain as he slams Obama at a NG "Convention"?????
Posted by:TJS (LtCol USAF (RET))October 7, 2008 1:05:59 PMRespond ^
this is complete bull. Those punishments are made up like all this crap. all of you should go move to europe and by employed becuase your sucks like you guys.

PS I would sign up before being drafted
Semper FI
Posted by:a smart nonclosed minded October 13, 2008 6:52:49 PMRespond ^

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