The great irony of the immigration debate is that the immigrants in question are far purer representatives of the "American/Protestant Work-Ethic" than those who vociferously persecute them. If the majority of the GOP only worked as earnestly and honestly as the average undocumented worker, our nation would not be in the economic mess it is today. H'mmm, maybe we should deport the sub-prime lenders, sweat-shop shareholders, and non-union growers to points south of the Texas border wall.

Good post, Jim. You have proposed a deportation plan that would rid the country of its most troublesome riff-raff!

Indeed a very nice post and comments. Individuals should be measured by their honesty, morals, and ethics. They should be evaluated by what they do when they arrive in this country and not by how they arrived.

I like the positive portrayal of some of our most productive residents, legal or illegal! Perhaps the xenophobes,invasion alarmists and fear mongers like Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck,Rush Limbaugh, and Roger Hedgecock (from San Diego) should analyze their own family's pedigree and see that some of them probably were involved in the biggest undocumented immigrant invasion and land-grabbing event in world history, the "settlement" of the "American Southwest" at the expense of countless Native Americans and Mexican citizens who were living there well before the Mayflower and Jamestown were even thought of, and who not only lost their land to these Manifest Destiny looters, but their human and civil rights, and many paid for their resistance to foreigners with their lives! Let's not be hypocrites and liars about WHO are the REAL IMMIGRANTS in "our own country!" Read the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and see if it justified the "AQUISITION" of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona,Nevada, Utah, California, and half of Colorado in a war of naked aggression against a neighboring country that NEVER did anything to the USA, the Republic of Mexico--a country that outlawed slavery in 1830, 32 years before the paragon of liberty and freedom, the USA!!! If history shows the real truth, then we are the REAL INVADERS, and we should be realistic about why the economic situation is so unequal between the two countries as we own 45 to 50% of Mexico's former territory,some of their richest states!

How would you know Jim? They won't hire Americans because we feel 'entitled' to a living wage! So, how come you're paying them more than Americans? I hope Americans start suing the stuffings out of employers who do that.

These are all jobs legal aliens or American citizens can do. They would, but their wages have been undercut by illegal aliens. I'm not a republican; and believe illegal immigration has caused many problems in different areas of society, especially in the border states. Thus glorifying these aliens in my opinion is ridiculous.

I don’t fault any of these hard working people and I am only slightly troubled by harm these workers cause the economy when they take billions of dollars out of the US marketplace and send that money back to their homelands; as I would do the same if our positions were reversed. It is the employers that knowingly hire illegal workers and our government that does not prosecute these employers for breaking the law that is the root of the “problem”.

Wow! Amazing photos. One thing really bother me a lot for long time, how come many American companies still reject Deaf American Citizen and other people with disabilities with a lot of year long trainings ready to work in any job situations?
Hello America!! You tax dollars goes to SSI to support these people because you don't know how to and be afraid work with me. Oh I see. Its easier to hire the Mexican because they don't speak any English. How ironic is that?
Just my frustrated 2cents.

Jim and Bob: Do y'all really hate Mexico so much that you want to send them all of our Snidley Whiplash wannabes? That's just hateful, man. Shame on you both.

Anonymous and NoOpenborders: It's a market economy. Workers are paid according to the (perceived) value of their skills. If said undocumented workers are being paid higher wages, could it possibly be that they're better workers? ...that they don't whine and bitch and moan about being expected to come to work on time ready to work on every day that they're expected?

Max Barton: Of course, you only wear clothes made in the US, only eat food grown in the US, only drive vehicles manufactured in the US, fueling them with gas/diesel/whatever mined in the US, watch movies.... None of your money ever leaves the US, does it? The simple fact is that barring a global catastrophe, the nation/state is rapidly becoming obsolete. You, like Good King Réne of Provence, may build high walls and fight the good fight, but walls didn't help Provence, nor China, nor Munich, nor... and fighting against the tides of history only make you a loser.

Mexico's elite, in collusion with the U.S. government, perpetuates an economy which "breeds" the poor for export. These photos are a delight to me. Having been raised by undocumented Mexican nationals in the 50's and 60's, I can say first-hand that the women -- Anita, Carmen and Manuela, who raised me --taught me more about hard work, love and responsibility to family than my biological parents. They may have been "paid" to care for me, but that did not compromise their ability to teach me compassion by example. When I hear "American" citizens espouse a "closed border" policy, the hypocrisy galls me.

You all seem to forget the tiny issue with them being here ILLEGALY.
Oh, by the way - they send money "home". That is money taken straight out of the US economy.
And don't think for a minute they pay taxes on those $!

that is actually a ridiculous statement. The IRS issues these "Illegal" aliens a social security type number so that they do pay taxes! In order to even think about becoming a resident one day you have to show that you have been paying taxes the entire time you have been living in the US ILLEGALLY here. Illegal Aliens Pay taxes! These illegal aliens are coming back to their ancestral homelands they were kicked out of because they are starving at home. they never came on a boat across oceans in order to pillage the NATIVE and MEXICAN people already here.

The United States Government issues Illegials Social Security "type" numbers? That's absurd & untrue.

However, if someone is here on a LEGAL work visa, with the full consent of the US Gov., an IRS identification number is issued.

There is a right way & a wrong way, kiddies--one way involves breaking the law. Not a difficult concept to grasp.

I am constantly amazed whenever I hear someone claim that they have the "right" to be in this (or any) country Illegially.

Using that line of thought, then anyone could go to any other country fully intent on knowingly & deliberately breaking their laws, but understanding that they would be a privilidged, special person there-so special as to be held in greater esteem than even their most well respected & highly regarded citizens. Afterall, we all have rights, yes?

To A Legal Alien and Max: do you forget about the money taken out of the non-American economies by NAFTA?
To Bix: so you're saying that Civil Rights protesters had no right to break Jim Crow laws, and they shouldn't be esteemed?
Essentially all people in the US, exceptions dually noted of red and brown, are here illegally. We have all been 'anchor-babies'. And God forbid we pay for their health care, when we barely do it for people who were born 'here'. If it wasn't for neoliberalism and transient companies, with racism, sexism, etc. intended in my analysis, then there would be no reason for border crossings. We as American consumers buy their sweat and tears; our commodity is their body.

immagrants are some of the hardest working people around... just because they don't speak english doensn't mean they don't know hot to work. they bust their assess to put food on the table. they all want the same things out of life as you "americans" is this country not the melting pot
why not ad some spice to it

ILLEGAL means against the law, break the law and you or me will see a jail. I came here LEGALLY from an spanish speaking country waited in the long lines ( first at my former country at the embassy and later on here in the States), on those very long and cold mornings outside the immigration centers , pay my very expensive fees for paperwork, pay taxes on every dollar I make, learned english and created a life here in the states. I'm also a member of the CPUSA, I'm 30years old and I love america. But ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL and there is no excuses. It is not fear for the rest of us that waited for our turn., Illegals jumped the line!!!!

I think that the girl in this picture is in the wrong business... I think that she is attractive enough to be a "Dancer"..?
And maybe she could get some clients like eliott spitzer to help her with her "Work" visa...?

DEPORT THEM ALL...!!! And the anchor babies too..!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill

El Inmigrante: If you are actually a member of the CPUSA, how can you be such a bigot? If you understand Marx, as it seems you purport, (i.e. your membership in the CPUSA), why do you love America? Nationalism and legality are just tools of the ruling class that preserve the existing order of exploitation.
Bill: You are a dull, unintelligent, and hateful man. Go back to your hovel and masturbate to Pat Buchanan.

to Justin: My love for america is no love for it's capitalist and elitist opressive system but for it's people. American people are socialist at heart because they are on the most part made of a working class majority. It is true that the system has corrupted their class view with an horrible propaganda aparatus. But even MArx agrees that the law of the land must be follow if not we are looking at a bolchevist violent revolution that has it's moment in the past but has not place on todays world. How fear is for the other millions of immigrants workers that wait for it's turn to get in the country and get a job to also send the money back to their families and paid all the numerous fees that the elite classes has imposed to us from D.C.? I love americans north and south and I will love to see a Socialist America.
People before profits!!!

That's tortured logic, El. Yet Marx never argues that laws shouldn't be followed or should, rather he simply posits that they are in place to serve the interests of an elite class. The closest he comes to mentioning violence is in a letter to Russian socialists and he says that violence is not the only means. The structural violence committed by the state is no less violent than armed struggle and because it is insidious, it's that much more dangerous. But you said, "I love America", and only now correct yourself to say "Americans". Legal or illegal, fuck the border. If you say people before profits, then you have to recognize that profits are built on laws and borders, and if many of these people didn't come here to earn a shitty salary, there would be nothing except the oppressive elements of US imperialism to crush them under its heal.

These photos spark lively debate. :) I'd like to add Popeye in the spinach field. Are we ready to pay the price of losing the backbone of our agricultural sector?

Justin, You are rigth but at this moment tearing down the borders is really utopic. A nice revolutionary thougth but not achiveable at this time in my humble opinion. I will focus more in taking down the Federal reserve bank pupet goverments such as Uribe's Colombia or Mexico and the banker elites that are the ones promoting this sources of cheap labor trade between north and south.

This set of pics made me reflect on this whole thing...
I think both nations are responsible for this problem, really ignoring it and trying to make us all believe the contrary...
Mexico's government throughout history has failed to provide a stable economic condition and we, as Mexicans are responsible to make that change.
On the other hand, are Americans really willing to take the job of a "bracero"?
I was kinda shocked when a homeless teenager in downtown San Francisco, literally demanded a dollar and acted rather offended when I suggested to get a job at the nearest 7 Eleven... all clerks at that 7 Eleven were mexicans... How come there are people on the streets of America who are young and strong, begging for money and not willing to take jobs that are gladly taken by illegal aliens???

having known people who are deported why not ask also that where is the money these people are caught with when arrested and when they are deported never given to them like any of us they worked for it but can't claim it once they are sent home and if you add up the number of immigrants times hundreds of dollars where is the police putting this money that no one can claim or ever will. Is it reported or do they do the same thing that is done with drug money (make a bust of 50,000 thousand and when drug dealer is prosecuted he only was busted with 10,000) so lets ask where is this legal money being sent to the mexican people that have been deported and worked very hard to earned it.

Very much so, El, but the fact remains that if we focus on the 'illegal' actions of the immigrants, then we miss the larger issue, which is, as you say, entities like the World Bank. The World Bank, the United States government, and so forth prescribe a series of limits that define acceptable appropriation, production, and distribution; the legality of their actions is a result of who defines what.

"Essentially all people in the US, exceptions dually noted of red and brown, are here illegally. We have all been 'anchor-babies'."

Justin, this is the United States of America and it has been the established nation for over 200 years. Nations and lands have been taken by conquest or migration since the beginning of recorded time. I don't hear the Mexicans complaining that the Spanish are on their land illegally, nor do I hear them decrying or rejecting the language they use. Using your twisted logic, Spanish is not their native tongue, but rather the language forced on the Native Americans by the invading Spanish. No one hears any stories of how the French should go home and give Canada back to the it's native residents. Virtually every nation in the entire western hemisphere has been established by a nation which came across the ocean to claim it, yet the one we hear the most about, the one which so many paint as being evil, is the U.S.

Being the nephew of a deaf gentleman (long deceased) I am fully aware of the problems and unfair treatment of our deaf Americans OS. I remember how he was mistreated by society just because he couldn't hear. My best thoughts are with you in these trying times.

Actually, have you ever heard of Oaxaca, Jokyr? Yes, they are 'Mexicans' who physically fight the predations of 'white' Mexicans. The First Nation movement in Canada is an assemblage of Indians who fought for recognition there. Your logic is the most flawed; what you are arguing is that the so-called 'invasion' of brown peoples is not legitimate so it is ok to penalize them for doing the same thing, but much less violent, than whites did some four hundred years ago. Are you asserting that if these immigrants came over with guns and exterminated whites that their immigration would be legitimate?

Correction to my previous statement: Oaxaca is a province in Mexico and its residents are Mayans.

Are you asserting that if these immigrants came over with guns and exterminated whites that their immigration would be legitimate?
=========================
Hey justin,

YES, that is exactly what we are saying..!!! Go ahead, get your hommies and come up my street with your pistolas...!!! I have a 30-.06 and 500 rnds. of ammo, as does my neighbor and 10 out or 18 houses on my BLOCK..!!! IF you have the BALLS you little candiy ASS, come up to the boarder, and TRY and take it back..!!!

The USA will fight you at every corner, and every block..:-)

Now that would be a good day of target practice...!!!

Bill

Wow, Bill, you are so overwhelmingly intelligent that my poor little arguments don't stand a chance. Thanks for the contribution!

I loved this photo essay! The window-washer Spiderman makes my heart jump into my throat, however, because I don't see any safety apparatus.
Justin and El, I thought your conversation was really interesting and for the most part respectful. I agree with Justin that the top tier of the power houses that have created this immigration cluster-f--k are more responsible for it than the struggling and hard-working people at the bottom who, at the end of the day, are really just trying to make the most of life and provide for family here and in their native region. However, I can see why El gets frustrated after having gone through the legal hassles, to see others just breeze through it. I know that's an understatement; sneaking over the border is probably quite harrowing.
BTW: Bill Nigh is proud to have gun power because, based on his language skills, it's probably the only power he'll ever have. How ironic that a man with such a poor grasp of the English language probably just boils when he hears Spanish spoken in front of him in a check-out line.

Their work ethic has never been the issue. What are the issues remain their legal status, their economic contribution vs their economic drain, and what is morally and ethical to do in this situation. Their legal status is obvious, the question is moot.

This article demonstrates the economic drain is significant when a substantial portion of their paycheck is immediately exported to another economy. True, some pay taxes, but many do not. Yet we educate their children and provide social services and benefits.

Perhaps the "they do jobs we do not want to do" is a valid argument BUT it cuts against the grain of our domestic Labor movement lowering wages domestically. Furthermore, the difference in outsourcing jobs to Mexico vs importing labor that sends disposable income back to Mexico is negligible.

Getting into what is moral and ethical is a far greater issue than I care to address here.

Gotta roll with the punches dudes. Learn the "lengua franca" and learn to "brazero". Feed your family, watch your children grow-up. There are some pretty good conversations here. everyone has a point; no one has the answer(except for bill that is.) Here's my two cents worth.

Bill: You seem angry? You need to smoke pot!

To those who love Karl: Humans are too stupid and greedy for those philosophies to work. You folks need to smoke pot!

Those of you who bemoan the "forceful taking away" of their (percieved) property: It was never yours to begin with. If the various "super cultures" like the Maya, Aztecas, Incas, etc were raping, pillaging, and taking territory from each other before the white europeans came, why are you decendant folk angry at the whites? Because they were more efficient at doing what you people had been doing (and continue to do) to each other, for centuries? "let's get rid of these pinchi gringos so that WE can exploit ourselves by ourselves!" To you folks I say...yes, you guessed it. SMOKE POT.

Where is Dr. Gonzo when you need him?

To Glenn: If by white europeans being "more efficient," at conquering you mean lost the initial battles and took over years later after 90% of the population had died off due to the white europeans "more efficient" diseases. Then, yes, you are absolutely correct about white europeans. Your inept reasoning, derived from a tiny, subset of facts is what white europeans are most efficient at. i.e. Lou Dobbs, et al. The whole story is this (and it may shock you): We(the global and only appropriate "we" in this day and age) ALL want the SAME thing. I want my meals at restaurants and car washes, and gardening, and housework, and almost every single chore you can think of to cost a certain price. Illegal immigrants want to work in those areas to be able to feed and shelter the families they have to leave. I, as a Mexican-American, am grateful for the work they do, but I would not want to hand those jobs down to my future sons or daughters. Let them have those jobs. Let us appreciate it and move our public toward the jobs we would like to have, not the jobs no one wants. Because, let's face it, I'm not going to be washing dishes to survive and neither is anyone else on this post. And, to whomever thinks they don't pay taxes. Again, tiny subset of facts. It works like this: Immigrant uses a real(borrowed) SSN, or fake SSN. Either way, money gets taken out just like on any other paycheck, with the difference being that they don't file tax returns out of rational fear.

Make yourself Mexican with this simple economics question. You're making about 8 to 10 dollars a day in Mexico. You can go to the U.S. and make 8 to 10 an hour, but to cross nowadays costs roughly $4000. That means it'll take about 3 months of continuous work with no spending to earn back your entry fee. Do you then decide to just stay for a while, and go back home routinely? Or, do you work years to bring your family in where you're now making 8 to 10 more than you were? Let me guess, the constant $5000 entry fee is going to make those trips home less frequent. What if we allowed people to rotate frequently? Allowed them to maintain and see their family in Mexico, but still work here and add to an economy that is so readily accepting. Instead, we force the very things we argue against. They stay too long. They bring their families, illegally. Let them work. Let them go home. Let them come back. A cross-border temp-agency is my solution. Or, you can build a wall and close your eyes.

Clemente. You suffer from the very racist disease you are accusing me of. Allow me to let you in on a little secret amigo. My family came to the U.S. through...you guessed it...MEXICO. I currently live in a border town in Texas. I'll give you a hint: Juarez, MX is OUR sister city. I have more spanish blood coursing through my veins that most probably 70% of Mexicans. Yes, I even come with a Mexican birth certificate. You assume too much. I have been around Mexicans ALL of my life. I've met a broad spectrum of Mexican people; From those who think that someday they'll hit paydirt and kick those pinchi gringos out of their land, to the ones that really want to forget the political Bravo Sierra and just survive. Mexico, and other latin and South American peoples are like people anywhere else on earth; they want to survive! It would be wholey hipocritical of me to do or say otherwise. As for the wall, I have a very good friend who is the supervisory person (I will not say for who or which organization here works for)tasked to make sure this wall is built. He and I are of the same mentality. Both of us see nothing but racism in this wall. Nevertheless, it is going to be built no matter what he and I beleive. I don't want it there, neither does he, and yes, he's un pinchi gringo. But hey...my father (not being American born) is fond of telling me that people deserve the governments the get. As Thomas Jefferson commented , "...all governments tend towards tyranny..." Latin Americans, Mexicans, South Americans, are living in destitution and poverty because THEY wish it. My personal opinion is that I would rather die fighting than of starvation! Yes, I was happy to see those indian folk in Chiapas fight. Many more should do so. We here in the U.S. have had it so easy for so long, that now we are becoming more and more like our former southern people. I enjoyed your argument anyway. That's what is so wonderful about the U.S. we can exchange points of view without worrying about reprisals. Hasta luego y que Dios te bendiga.

You are correct Glenn.. I am slightly racist. But, it's not toward white people, specifically. Just toward that age-old, severely outdated, white mentality that people of color are somehow lesser. The bible and the gun conquered, but it can't control(-see Iraq). There are solutions to today's issues, but if we(America) don't move away from that horrible mentality first and foremost, there is no hope whatsoever. People are people...anywhere and everywhere. We all act according to our situations and incentives. And, I am happy to know dialogue is possible. So much of this debate is statement riddled, rather than question oriented. Now, to elaborate on my cross-border temp agency idea, it can go as far as being a social securityesque network for immigrant workers, be self-sufficient, take money out for investment into the infrastructure of the donor's home country. Participants would be identified(which Americans want), a single felony after admittance would make them ineligible(which Americans want). It would be, in a sense, a monitored revolving door. A wall seeks to trap people on either side and that is beneficial for no one. Amnesty wouldn't be granted, but those already here would be at the top of the list. 8 month work stays and then go back home until your turn comes up again. Far better, in immigrant's eyes, than paying 5k with the fear of being deported before making back that money. Application for citizenship would remain the same. This would only address the issue of the latin american immigrant worker. They can work, see their families, and maintain their life abroad(what immigrants want). I'd love to hear a better solution.

@Jim don't worry, American sweatshop owners and neo-slavemasters are already in Mexico. If you think they treat illegals badly in the US, you should see American run plants in Mexico. Wages are lower, conditions are harsher, and since the Mexican government is so corrupt it will accept bribes from these Gringos, the employees have even less recourse to protection that they do in the states. So either way they are screwed.

Hey Moron,

I haven't respected ANY libs on this site, but since you use my NAME in your thing,.. you get a capital respect..:-)
I have a biz counterpart who in 1999 moved to mexico, and he pays $1.00 hr.. and the peasants are flockingto his biz... We might move our biz to Rosarito Beach soon.. The libs are making it VERy hard to make money in USA, so everyone might be moving to mexico....:-( VERY sad...:-(

[deleted]

BIll

anything illegal is extremely wrong...i mean things like jay walking, which is illegal where i live is terribly wrong. you should be shot if you don't cross properly.

Bill Nigh: "DEPORT THEM ALL...!!! And the anchor babies too..!!!!!!!!!!!"

Bill, only if you're willing to foot the bill to put your bigotry into action. Actually, how about I just pay to send you away? Deal?

BILL NIGH IS THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE!!!!!! HE WHINES ABOUT ALL THE AMERICANS WHO AREN'T GETTING JOBS BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING UNDERCUT BY MEXICANS, THEN TALKS ABOUT MOVING HIS BUSINESS TO WHERE CHEAPER LABOR EXISTS. BILL NIGH HAS NO CREDIBILITY WHATSOEVER.

Forgot to include my name on previous post that starts "BILL NIGH IS THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE!!!!!!"

You know Clemente you're correct. We should have a parallel form of social security for the border folks. As part of it, perhaps they could pay some type of annual fee to maintain administrative costs. We do have to address the tax situation. Being that these folks are not citizens, would it be proper to tax their income as such? Perhaps an international development zone extending 50 miles both north and south of the border could be considered a "Tax-Free" zone? (Only if you can prove residency with in that area) That way both Mexico AND the United States can extract commercial taxes from the joint border commerce area. Sounds good to me, and we could be self supporting, with the lion's share of the taxes going to international health system, schools, etc. By international I mean only within the 100 mile band from San Diego to Brownsville, TX.

Nitpick: Catwoman was a supervillain, not a superhero.

I have just read that 60% of american companies paid no taxes last year. Non bid contracts are going to halliburton and billions of dollars of stolen profits are going to this adminstrations friends in war crime profiteering. So a mexican that makes ten bucks an hour not paying his taxes is the problem? Its like getting hit with a hammer and complaining about a mosquito bite

Hey "inmigrante", you waited in long lines and did all that stuff legally because it was easier for you to do so that way. If it would've been impossible for you to come here legally, like it is for the ones that do so and if your situation was as hard for you back home as it is for them, then you would've done it the same thing, anybody would. If you did everything legally then I doubt these people are taking jobs from you because if your qualifications only get you these jobs then there is no legal way to do so. A master's degree is not enough for this country to like you anymore. Your fear of hard-working people is founded on fallacies. You should try some empathy before talking about fairness.

Don, let me guess where you read the 60% of US companies paid no taxes. You are just another sheep without a clue. And as far as the GOP trying to deport aliens, maybe you guys should actually read the unbiased news. There you would see the current administrations plan for alien workers that was rejected by the democrat congress. Bush wanted them to stay, dems not. Baaaaaa