After the FISA Fight: An Interview with Sen. Russ Feingold
Why did some Democrats cave to the administration's wiretapping demands? "A constantly pulsating fear of being accused of being soft on terrorism."
Mother Jones: On FISA (and the Protect America Act), a lot of people were impressed with the House Democrats' performance back in February when they refused to advance the Senate bill (that extended the warrantless wiretapping program). In the interim, what happened? Where was the pressure coming from within the Democratic party to revisit this issue and not wait at least until there was a new administration in place?
Russell Feingold: This is just really amazing to me, because there's always the pressure on this. There's a very interesting thing that happens where people get fired up and people really have good instincts about civil liberties and would really prefer to be on this side. I think that's what they really believe in. So you get kind of a head of steam, which I noticed happened with the blocking of the reauthorization of the Patriot Act for a while, until people caved. And it happened for a while even in the Senate on the PAA. But what was a surprise was what the House did. I mean that was really impressive that a group of people, including Steny Hoyer and others, stood up and said, "No, we're not gonna do this."
But the problem is that there's this fear, that sort of grows over time, that somehow Democrats are gonna get hit over the head by claims that they're soft on terrorism. And it always rears its head, especially when we're heading into a recess period or an election period. We were able to make the argument early in the year that the orders were lasting for a year. So even if the law expired, the orders allowing the surveillance were still in place. Until August. But as you get closer to these deadlines, the administration uses these intimidation tactics, and far too many Democrats fall for it. There is this sort of inertia—if that's the right word—that leads to ultimately the caving of very large numbers of Democrats, even voting for an awful piece of legislation like this. That's the only way I know how to describe it. I don't know, the day-to-day pressure—it's like this constantly pulsating fear of being accused of being soft on terrorism.
MJ: How, politically, does one change that mindset— that being tough on national security means that the Democratic party has to support the erosion of civil liberties?
RF: I think you show people that those who stand firm on this do just fine politically. I like to think of myself as an example of that. There are many people like that. The truth is that if you properly articulate that you want to balance national security and make sure we protect civil liberties at the same time. And take the time to go through the arguments, which are very frankly easy to win—these are not hard arguments. When anybody really listens to it, they just kinda shake their head. Then you can prevail and show people that you don't need to buckle at the knees on this. But it requires a little patience. It requires a little faith in peoples' willingness to listen. And that's how in the long run you prevail. And I'm hoping that a lot of people who run this time, unlike a lot of people who ran in 2006, are held accountable.
I'm sure many of our candidates are gonna say, "You know, I was against immunity and I don't like this bill." Well, they need to be held accountable when they get here. And that hasn't really happened. We have a lot of Democrats, even some who voted to get us out of Iraq, who aren't voting properly on this, in a way that is, frankly, very damaging to our efforts.
MJ: What's the fix? Is there one? And when?
RF: Hopefully, under President Obama he will acknowledge, as he has in the past, not only how outrageous this immunity is—although that's gonna be very hard to deal with because the horse may already be out of the barn—but I think, even more importantly, he will have an opportunity to review these very expanded powers that are given to the government to surveil our international communications. And to say, look, we need legislation that has some sort of court review and mechanisms for control of this, because it's completely lawless. It's much harder to pass something and change it after the fact. But I'm hoping we'll have both houses (of Congress) and I'm hoping Obama will understand how important this is. And that will be a golden opportunity for him to correct one of many things that needs to be corrected from this administration. So I'm hoping it starts as early as January 20th.
MJ: What would a McCain presidency mean?
RF: You know, I think McCain would be better on this than the current administration, to be candid with you. There've been some remarks that he's made about—even though he's pulled back some on telecom immunity—he's said that he would do no signing statements. I think he knows and his people know that this administration is just out of control and is just really lawless. But the difference between Obama and McCain on the specifics would be significant. I think that Obama would be far more likely to insist on some court review and some protections against things like bulk collection of information, reverse targeting of Americans. There's no question he would understand that and I would hope we'd have a much better shot at him trying to correct those problems than Senator McCain.
MJ: What's the most egregious thing that's occurred during the Bush administration and what's the most important to scale back?
RF: It would be, I think, the overall assertion that, under Article II of the Constitution, the president can look at a clear statute that's been signed into law and ignore it because of his so-called commander-in-chief powers. Whether that means a justification for warrantless wiretapping, whether that means saying, "Look, I can do whatever I want on torture." That overall assertion is the thing that underlies many of the specifics, and that's the one that needs to be pushed back to the Youngstown Steel case test articulated by Justice Jackson.
MJ: Assuming that doesn't happen, what is the most odious piece of legislation of the last seven years?
RF: The legislation isn't as much the problem as, for example, the warrantless wiretapping program, which was instituted by executive order…. This new president, whoever it is, has to renounce these extreme powers, or it's going to start getting locked into our constitutional history. Right now the position of this administration is an outlier in the terms of our constitutional history. If this new president doesn't renounce it and say, "Look we've gotta get this back in balance," then we will have altered the nature of our very Constitution.
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It seems to me that this excuse of the bulging fear drummed up by the NeoCon wingnuts is getting old. It has got to be something else.
Is it the money? Is it the prestige? Is it the media coverage? Is it the ability to stand up in front of the people that they generally lied to in their campaign when they ran and lie some more? Is it just the ego?
When you can trade away the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution for a meager pile of pride, it's time to get physically thrown out of office on your ass.
These folks don't deserve to hold office. They deserve no public or private respect. They even deserve public ridicule of the highest order.
After seeing how many Democrats voted for this--including Obama, I've decided that I'm voting 3rd Party this November, though I'm not sure for who yet. The Dems have proven themselves clearly useless (even more so than Pelosi's "impeachment is off the table" stance) and I'm tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils. Obama has convinced me that now is truly the time for "change we can believe in" and it's becoming increasingly clear that the Democrats will not deliver that change.
I was once told that the only wasted vote is the one you don't believe in; I want to start believing in my vote again.
I agree the Oligopical DUO the RNC and DNC are indistinguishable in their corruption and stupidity. I would go even further and say that America is ungovernable. And finally that the dumbed down, in debt, brainwashed American public will get just what it deserves. A bankrupt totalitarian state. I will vote for Nader and no longer be a prisoner of the concept of voting for the best of the worst.
We have been manipulated by fear and hate to long. Those in power don't even care about spinning stuff anymore. It is just in your face, WE CAN DO ANYTHING WE WANT! Read this you wiretapping idiots.
Dear Sen. Feingold,
I believe you may very well be the last Democrat to save the Constitution document when our Democracy falls into the second Dark Ages
I admire your intelligence, integrity and fighting for our country's highest values and traditions.
Horrors..they don't want to be accused of being "soft on terrorism"..would much rather be see as being "soft" on the Constitution, Democracy, Civil Liberties, and the Rule of Law...some thing smells real bad here...makes me sick to my stomach and thinking seriously about voting for Nader
Mr. Feingold has my vote in November.
Looks like I'm voting for Ralph Nader, again.
Voting for Ralph will accomplish exactly nothing and will possibly cause some very long lasting damage. Think Supreme Court. Think. If we can get Obama in office, at least we may have a chance for a court that will put some brakes on all of this insanity.
Thanks, Senator Feingold, for all you have done and continue to do to defend the people's Constitution.
One can analyze until the day grows long about how we have gotten to the state of fear that we are in. Is it the politicians? Is it the people who are too busy to pay attention? Is it the lazy MSM?
The root of this problem goes back to August 4, 1987 when the FCC appointed by Ronald Reagan abolished the Fairness Doctrine. The Fairness Doctrine was established in 1949 during the era of anti-Communist frenzy and required that issues of public interest be discussed on the public airwaves in a manner deemed fair, honest, and equitable by the FCC.
OK, I'll admit that the FD had some issues, but it was an order of magnitude better than what the press has devolved to today. The end of the FD spawned a corporate news system where issues of the public interest are now reported from the standpoint of the corporate-owned media interest.
This has caused the death of political courage for the most part. Public figures are reluctant to speak out because if they do, they will be subject to an endless barrage of hit pieces, hate speech, lies, and character assassination by the corporation press.
Who owns corporations? Progressives and activists? Nope.
So there's your answer. If we had the FD in place, it would fix this problem by allowing victims of the right wing media to challenge them without having to spend a fortune and distract them from what they are doing by engaging the press in a battle for the truth.
If this doesn't get fixed, nothing else will, either.
-Wexler
I lost today,I am being illegal wiretapped her in Malvern Arkansas and noone will help.I have tried.when you are in A state that they all know each other it makes it near impossible.
The reason everyone "caves" on this issue is that domestic wiretapping and surveillance rounds up everyone into the dragnet, including Congress. It sets everyone up for bribery, blackmail and being forced to do the "will" of those in power. It's why our betters came up with FISA - to put a stop to blackmailing Congress into doing the "will" of those in the other branches of government. No one seems to want to bring this fact up in public discourse. In other words, "they" have the goods on "us" and can put us away if we don't go along with the program. Sad, but true. And now you know.
My congressional representative Steve King R Ia. is so very marginal of mind and has little apparent influence in the house. What he does have is a relentless, bullying, drive to create the fear and anxiety that feed the Bush agenda. We need help people. Allowing these types to control our lives, and public attitudes has weaken us as a nation. Acting out of fear has left us fearing to act.
07/21/08
Anyone in the U.S. Congress who voted for FISA and the PATRIOT ACT is a Terrorist against the Constitution of the United States of America and should be Impeached from Office and thrown out with their Rich Bath Water! No Federal Retirement and No Benefits. They have committed the worst crime against the American Citizens and the Constitution of the U.A.S.! The Civil Liberties of America have been attacked by the very people who have been given the power to uphold the basic freedoms and liberties of all American Citizens. Damn them all for such Treasonous Acts.
America is no more the Land of the Free! It has become a Fascist Dictatorship with Emperor Bush and his Dick as in shoot your best friend in the face Cheney taking it all apart the last 8 years. They should be Impeached and A.S.A.P. for failing the Oath they swore to uphold the laws and our American Constituion!
Traders and Fascist have no place in the United States of America! Not in the U.S. Congress nor in the White House! We have now become a 3rd World Country and we are not the Richest Country in the World! Just ask China and Japan! They hold all our bonds. We are $10 Trillion dollars in debt and the World Debt total is $50 Trillion and America is $10 Trillion of that $50 Trillion World Debt. Emperor Bush and his Dick only care about the Greed of the 1% Rich! They have robbed the future of our children and for generations to come of every American Citizen.
We would expect it from the Republicans who have followed like cattle to the 'Feeding Fields' of Emperor Bush and his Dick, but those Democrats have no room to talk about Civil Liberties and Freedoms when those who voted for the Treasonist FISA ACT and PATRIOT ACT to be passed.
America is being brankrupted to the tune of $500,000 dollars every 30 seconds for an Unjust War in the Mid East. Charity starts at home and the Greed of the 1% Rich is going to come back at them like a lightening bolt out of the sky one day and they will not know what hit them for such Treasonous Acts against their own country and fellow American Citizens. Only those in the U.S. Congress who 'Voted Against' the 'FISA ACT' and 'Patriot Act' can be trusted in the future to continue to do the right thing. They are the only one's who took an Oath to uphold the United States Constitution and Civil Liberties of all American Citizens. The rest of you in the U.S. Congress and White House have sold your soul to the Devil. You will not have enought money to buy your way into Heaven or any other place where you'al will be going when you leave this life on earth. You have made your bed and now only a matter of time will you have left to lay in it before the Grim Reaper comes to claim your soul for good. No one has to do it for you as you have already done it by your own actions. You call yourself Patriots? You call yourself Americans? You are the 'Scum of the Earth'. Living off the biggest Welfare System called the U.S. Congress and White House! You live like Royality and then talk like your just like everyone else who are the 99% living in Poverity in America today.
"Emperor Geroge W. Bush and his Dick as in shoot your best friend in the face Cheney and their Republican Agenda have caused the 'Daily' Suffering and Deaths of American Poor, Disabled, L.G.B.T. Community, Senior Citizens, Children, Veterans and the Unemployed by Economic Deprivation. It leaves no finger prints at the crime scene."
This would surely explain a lot of Emperor Bush's Dick secret meetings with the Oil Companies. What better way to bring down America? First they cause 9/11 to happen. Then they cause the Mid East War to happen. Then they cause the deaths and suffering from Katrina to happen. Then they cause the price of Oil to go up. The Code name for the Oil to rise was called 'Trojan Horse'. What better way for the 1% Rich in America to bring down a country called America than to finally allow the price of Oil to go up beyond reality.
We have no Oil Shortage or Natural Gas Shortage. Only the Greed of the 1% Rich who have created 'Trojan Horse' to finally happen. It is the 1% Rich who are the 'Enemy of the State'.
Wake Up America and Protest and Vote everyone out of office who voted for the FISA ACT and the PATRIOT ACT! They have Betrayed their Country and should be thrown in jail for the criminals they are to the Oath they failed to uphold in the Office they have been holding in our U.S. Congress and in our White House!
Ralph Nader is the one last best chance to return to Constitutional government, the rule of law and accountability to the American Public.
Obama's betrayl on the FISA bill not only gives the telecom's immunity for breaking the law, it also gives amnesty to the Bush/Cheney corp. for Constitutional violations. Should Obama become President, the silent coup will be complete.
*Bush demonstrated his willingness to trample and violate our Constitution through his recidivist policies from suspending of Habeas Corpus, to torture camps, to an illeagal war in Iraq, to nullifying Congressional consent through signing statements to illegal wire tapping, to openly lieing to the American Public repeatedly.
*Nancy Pelosi effectively gave the administration a green light to continue to break the law and violate our Constitution through her "impeachment is off the table" statement effectively surrendering to the Republicans before even being seated in office.
*Obama (who had previously promised to not only vote against but promised to fillibuster the bill completed the circle of complicity by knuckling under and signing our 4th amendment Constitutional rights away.
Conclusion: neither Democrats nor Republicans respect the rule of law, our Constitution, the will of the public,or accountability for their words or actions.
Should Obama become POTUS, the circle of corruption and lawlessness shall be complete and our Constitution and democracy will be dead.
Only Ralph Nader and the ACLU can restore accountability, justice, the rule of law and constitutional integrity to our nation.
how can i contact others who are victims of wiretap and sabotage by govt? lets have a forum for all.
24/7 the govt is using torture of the mind (v2k) tactics on me and my family we will no longer be silent about this. anyone listening???believe it because it is true. this goes on 24/7 in america like it does in russia...
Mr. Wexler. we are in agreement.
"This new president, whoever it is, has to renounce these extreme powers, or it's going to start getting locked into our constitutional history".
This is a total pathetic crock of bull.
No Executive branch will EVER renounce powers granted to it or acquired for itself by force/lie/coercion. It is the function of CONGRESS to provide checks and balances. This is the same lie that Pelosi spews about changes once Obama is president. Obama will continue just like Bush because he CAN.
The Founding fathers DID NOT WANT a President to decide which powers he wants to keep or relinquish. That is called Monarchy and Tyranny.
What kind of imbecile representatives do we have that they do not understand this BASIC PRINCIPLE ???!!!
Nader is responsible for Bush getting close enough to steal the presidency in 2000 and therefore everything that has happened since.
If enough progressives vote for Nader - McSame will win, and one more ideologue appointed to the Supreme Court will undo every progressive advance since Roosevelt.
Nader won't get any more than 2 or 3 percent of the vote anyway, as he has gotten previously, but that may be just enough in a close election to let America swirl down the drain.
Go ahead, idiot. Vote for Nader.
