Should Parents Who Call God Instead of the Doctor Be Punished?
In Wisconsin, this week's trial over Kara Neumann's death marks a new battle over children's health care rights.
Last Easter Sunday, 11-year-old Kara Neumann of Weston, Wisconsin, lay motionless on her bed, too weak to walk or speak. If her parents had called the hospital that day, Kara might have lived. Instead, Dale and Leilani—followers of the Unleavened Bread Ministry, an online church that shuns medical intervention—knelt in prayer beside her. Kara died a few hours later of diabetic ketoacidosis, a result of undiagnosed and untreated juvenile diabetes.
Are Dale and Leilani guilty of reckless endangerment? That's a question juries will start to answer this week as Leilani stands trial May 14. (Dale will be tried separately in June.) If convicted, each parent faces up to 25 years in prison. "The free exercise clause of the First Amendment protects religious belief, but not necessarily conduct," Judge Vincent Howard of Marathon County Circuit Court wrote when he ruled that the Neumanns must stand trial on charges brought by state attorney Jill Falstad. Howard has ordered all parties in the case not to speak to the media.
The highly anticipated trial has opened a new front in the long-running war between some religious communities and the medical establishment over children's health care. "We are not commanded in scripture to send people to the doctor," Unleavened Bread Ministries preacher David Eells said in a statement to his followers, "but to meet their needs through prayer and faith." Under current Wisconsin law, his followers aren't commanded by the state, either. Part of the legacy of the 1996 Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act, which included a landmark exemption for parents who do not seek medical care for their children for religious purposes, is that parents cannot be accused of child abuse or negligent homicide if they genuinely believed that calling God, instead of a doctor, was the best option available.
While all states give social service authorities the right to intervene in cases of child neglect, criminal codes in more than half also provide additional protection for religious parents who forgo mainstream medical treatment. Sen. Lena Taylor (D-Milwaukee) and the Church of Christ, Scientist in Wisconsin are currently working on legislation that may further impact children's health care by creating an "affirmative defense" for religious parents who choose "faith healing" over mainstream medicine.
In light of Kara's high-profile case, faith-healing communities around the country are worried about losing the right to treat their children according to their religious beliefs. "The way the law is worded right now is confusing and makes it seem like we have a shield to recklessly endanger children," says Joe Farkas, legislative affairs representative for the Church of Christ, Scientist in Wisconsin. "Our church loves children and we want to protect children...We want to have an 'affirmative defense' where parents relying on Christian Science treatment are given a fair opportunity to explain why they believed their action was in the best interest of their child," he adds. Christian Science, developed by Church of Christ, Scientist founder Mary Baker Eddy in the late 19th century, believes "Infinite goodness, realized in prayer, heals." One Wisconsin-based Christian Science website features a montage of children's drawings thanking God for healing everything from a severed thumb to a pet rat.
Not everyone is convinced that the Church of Christ, Scientist puts children before dogma. "Sen. Taylor should be deeply suspicious of their requests," says former Christian Scientist Rita Swan, executive director of the nonprofit Children's Health Care Is A Legal Duty. "The Christian Science church lobbies around the country for religious exemptions," notes Swan, who dedicated her life to "protecting children from abusive religious and cultural practices" after watching her infant die of meningitis—another curable disease. "Our son was having convulsions and the faith practitioner said we had to look at the positive side—he was gritting his teeth because he was planning an amazing achievement," said Swan. "Only when it was too late did we learn that symptoms of healing and divine intervention were actually signs of illness and suffering." Since then, Swan has exposed unnecessary deaths, found outbreaks of polio and measles at Christian Science camps and schools, and interviewed adults who are handicapped today because their diseases and injuries went untreated during childhood. Nobody knows exactly how many children are affected negatively every year by their parents' religious health beliefs, says Dr. Sara Sinal, who has written on religion-based medical neglect for Southern Medical Journal. "It is suspected that many deaths go unreported and unrecognized, particularly in closed communities."
Religious objection to medical treatment can be traced back to the late 1800s in England, when a sect called the Peculiar People ended up on trial for allowing generations of children to die as a result of their decision to reject doctors and medicine. Today, many Christian fundamentalist groups routinely spurn some or all mainstream health care in favor of faith healing through prayer. Jehovah's Witnesses accept some medical treatment but oppose blood transfusions, believing that only Jesus Christ's shed blood can redeem them. Scientology eschews certain psychotherapeutic drugs. The Amish, who are members of an Anabaptist Christian denomination, often reject invasive medical procedures. Christian Scientist families similarly claim religious exemption from childhood vaccination programs and most routine medical care.
Mental illness is an area that remains especially taboo in orthodox religious communities. "A lot of fundamentalist Christians, including pastors, believe that people have mental illness symptoms because they do not pray hard enough or do not believe in God enough," says John McManamy, mental health journalist and author of Living Well With Depression and Bipolar Disorder. McManamy notes that "religion is often a very positive experience for people with mental illness," but extremists cling to a "medieval belief that mental affliction is the result of the work of the devil and lack of sufficient faith in God."
More disturbingly, doctors who have religious objections to standard medical procedures now have federal protection. The most dangerous section of the so-called "conscience rule," which went into effect in January, bars health care institutions and employers from requiring "any individual to perform or assist in the performance of any part of a health service program" if it would offend his/her religious beliefs or moral convictions.
Prosecutors often file charges in religion-based medical neglect cases, and Christian Scientists have been convicted on charges of manslaughter. However, many convictions are overturned due to the ambiguity created by religious exemption laws, says Shawn F. Peters, author of When Prayer Fails: Faith Healing, Children, and the Law. "The argument that the law is confusing—you apparently can treat your child with prayer under one statute, but not under another—is a strong one that has worked for faith healing parents in some states," says Peters. An Oregonian couple was charged last year with criminally negligent homicide in the death of their 16-year-old son, who died from complications of a severely painful but easily treatable urinary tract infection. Earlier this year, a judge refused to drop criminal charges against another Oregon couple in the death of their 15-month-old daughter, who likely would have survived had she received antibiotics. And on May 8, a court hearing for Colleen and Anthony Hauser began in Sleepy Eye, Minnesota; the parents, part of a Native American organization called the Nemenhah Band, claim a "spiritual right" to try to cure their 13-year-old son of Hodgkin's lymphoma with healthy food and vitamins. Doctors contend their son has a 90 percent chance of recovery with chemotherapy and radiation.
The medical community has long grappled with religious traditions that jeopardize their patients' health. "Fundamentalists tell us their lives are in the hands of God and we, as physicians, are not God," says Dr. Lorry Frankel, a professor at the Stanford School of Medicine and author of Ethical Dilemmas in Pediatrics. "We respect people's religious beliefs and try to compromise, but we won't deny treatment that will save lives."
Organizations that have called for repealing religious exemptions include the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association, National District Attorneys Association, Prevent Child Abuse America, National Association of Medical Examiners, and CHILD Inc. "Too often, deference to religion in contemporary American society has resulted in us subordinating all other values," says Dr. Richard Sloan, professor of behavioral medicine at Columbia University Medical Center. "The law must recognize that the right of children to live supersedes the rights of their parents to free expression of religion."
Deena Guzder has reported on human rights issues from New York, Tehran, and Mumbai. She is the author of a forthcoming book on progressive religious radicals for social justice, currently scheduled for release by Chicago Review Press in 2010.
Page 1 of 1 
Don't get an abortion
Wait 16 years and torture your kid to death with an untreated UTI.
This is like the old Christian joke
A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."
Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle."
With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, "I don't know what you're complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter."
Our fundamental rights AND responsibilities
-
tagged as:
- solution
In a free society, it is our fundamental right to deal with life matters, which include our own health and well-being, on our own terms and in our own ways. In exchange for this freedom… along with the benefits of infrastructure, goods and services, we have responsibilities to the society and culture within which we live.
It is my belief it is the responsibility of parents when deciding to have a child, to raise their child in ways that are beneficial to her/him flourishing in the world as an adult. In this way, parents have a responsibility to become aware of options that benefit their child. Therefore if parents fail to pursue these options, and it is clearly demonstrated that this failure resulted in the lessening of ability for their child... then the parents are responsible.
And if the lessening of ability is death, then the parents are responsible for negligent homicide and should be criminally liable. Wisconsin and the entire country should remove restrictions (religious or otherwise) on prosecuting parents whose ignorant behavior results in the death of their child. After all, if the religious or other practice actually worked, and the child recovered fully, we would not be having this discussion right now.
www.changing-history.com
Yes, They Should Be
As a child growing up in a religious cult who refused doctors
and psychiatrists, my opinion is yes, these people should
be punished. Not allowing children medical and psychiatric
care is absolutely unquestionably child abuse. The children
are too young to be ANY "religion". That is a choice only
adults can make.
Can you tell us which cult?
Multimedia Editor, Mother Jones
http://www.motherjones.com/authors/laura-mcclure
I too was raised in a
I too was raised in a faith-healing cult. Too many people I knew personally died as a result of these religiously protected practices. If adults want to rely on prayer for their own health, fine. But they shouldn't be permitted to force these decisions on children, who need the protection of all citizens from dangerous beliefs and practices. We need to quit being so damn deferential.
Please correct your incorrect comment about Jehovah's Witnesses
This comment in your article is *inaccurate*:
"Jehovah's Witnesses accept some medical treatment but oppose blood transfusions, believing that only Jesus Christ's shed blood can redeem them."
Jehovah's Witnesses should never be lumped together with fundamentalist groups. We do not practice or believe in modern so-called "faith healing".
For Jehovah's Witnesses, medical treatment in general is a personal issue which does not conflict with our religious beliefs. There is nothing in the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures which forbids seeking medical assistance for the improvement of one's immediate health or to recover from illness as quickly as possible. The Gospel writer Luke was a physician, was he not?
Therefore, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES as a group MAY ACCEPT MOST MEDICAL TREATMENTS. The refusal to accept blood transfusions has less to do with everlasting redemption by Jesus Christ's shed blood (though it is not entirely irrelevant) than the fact that, in several instances, the Bible actually forbids taking blood into one's body: Genesis 9:3,4; Leviticus 17:10-12; and more recently in Acts 15:28,29
As a matter of fact, Jehovah's Witnesses' refusal to accept blood transfusions combined with the AIDS/HIV contamination of the blood supply has spurred an unparalleled cooperation between Jehovah's Witnesses and the medical community. This partnership has resulted in amazing advances in safer bloodless medical technology and surgical techniques.
Jehovah's Witnesses were, and still are, the willing "guinea pigs" for cutting edge bloodless medicine. When blood is not involved in a medical procedure, patients recover more quickly and have fewer complications. Because of it's better mortality and morbidity rates, bloodless surgery and other bloodless medical treatments are becoming the standard of care.
The general public is therefore a beneficiary of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses where blood transfusions are concerned. Be thankful for that, if you wish.
My family is JW and they do
My family is JW and they do accept medical treatment. [except for blood transfusions, of course]
Melanie is misinterpreting the data.
"When blood is not involved in a medical procedure, patients recover more quickly and have fewer complications."
Yes, I cannot think of a time I ordered a transfusion for a skinned knee. (In other words, while this statement is true on its face, it implies the exact opposite of what Melanie is suggesting.)
Bloodless medical treatments are nowhere near becoming available or effective, let alone the standard of care. Were that the case, the Jehovah's witness who died last week from his motorcycle crash might have survived. Believe me, if there were an effective blood substitute, I would have given it.
However, as a doctor on the night shift, I think it borders on abuse the number of children who are drug to the emergency department at all hours for benign common maladies that do not require any treatment and who, because of parent's insistence that we do something, are made worse for their treatment.
Also as a doctor, I don't
Also as a doctor, I don't think it is reasonable to punish families for refusing medical care. The history of medicine is fraught with fraud and well-intentioned but harmful treatments. Our success is a relatively new development, and while I know we save lives on a daily basis, we also fail many. We should not punish parents who remain skeptical of us--there are some good reasons for skepticism. How many people will sacrifice their savings to see a doctor just in case their child's symptoms could be serious?
God vs Children's Health
I totally disagree and really must say I find it hard to believe that you as a Doctor have taken this viewpoint. Children are exactly that children. The child must be given the opportunity for medical assistance. Any parent who refuses treatment by a doctor for an ill child should face the law. This child's life could have been saved by a doctor. I feel that a jail term is appropriate for this death by ignorance.
Wow, just wow. How can you
Wow, just wow. How can you be so naive. How can you be so stupid. Well our child is sick, so lets pray... Oh she died. Must be God's will. We can make more no worries.
That is the way these kind of stories translate to me. I am a believer in God. I also believe that God Created the Earth, Solar System, Galaxy, Universe, and what ever is bigger then that. Further more I believe that god created rules that go along with his creations. Rules that 5,000 years ago we had not the language nor the scientific understanding to describe. Rules today that we have discovered to be chemistry, physics, quantum physics, and yes Medicine.
How ignorant do you have to be to see that we are understanding the rules that God set down when he created the cosmos? How ignorant do you have to be to still cling to the myth that everything was created in just 7 days? How ignorant do you have to be to sit next to your child and pray for them to get better? When God has given us the tools to cure her, and you still do nothing. What kind of monster sits and does nothing while their child dies?
What idiot actually thinks that God is looking out for each and every one of us, personally? Like our own personal secretary. Making sure that we get the jobs we "deserve", and the right house, and the right cars, and get our kids into the right schools... these are all choices that we make on our own. People like this can not bare the thought that there is no one looking out for them, and tending to their every whim and need.
That fact of the matter is that these are people that can not handle the FACT that they alone are in total control of their lives and their destinies. That single thought scares the hell out of them. Because they are not a special petal on a special flower, in the special garden of God, they are in fact just like everyone else on this planet.
They should be put on trial, and if found guilty, they should spend a very long time in jail; thinking about what the difference of a phone call to the doctor would have made in the life of their child.
Faithhealing
Any parent who allows their child to die because they believe the child's illness will be cured by god should be incarcerated in a facility for the criminally insane.
When will we evolve?
-
tagged as:
- solution
When will we evolve sufficiently as a species to eliminate religion from our lives? If a parent thought laying thier sick child in a mud puddle in the sun would cure their illness, and the child died as a result of the lack of a readily available treatment, there would be no doubt tht the parent would be prosecuted. Why is this any different?! We now know that the thunder and lightening is not gods battling in the sky, or bowling, and that throwing virgins into a volcano will not keep the volcano god happy and quiet, or that Persephone doesn't go to Hades and consequently cause winter (which inplies that, from the northern hemisphere's perspective, that the southern hemisphere must be hell...), or that we don't get sick from getting cold or going outside with wet hair - why can't so many get over this imaginary friend for grown-ups? It's just an excuse to not take responsibility for one's self - you just can't really blame a lowly miserable flawed sinner...
When we will evolve to the
When we will evolve to the place where there is no place for religion in society, is when the police, military, government or some other man-made institution rules over us like little automatons, and takes away our freedom of choice, and makes our every decision. What can you, as a simple human being do for me that the almighty already hasn't done for me, and more? He has given me, and will continue to give me, my life and ability to the enjoy my life with His liberty and freedom. Take your secular religious notion and practice your damning theology on someone body else, and see and experience what real elimination of secular religion feels like and really means!
Underwhat circumstances can
Underwhat circumstances can the the state overrule parental rights?
Underwhat circumstances can
Under what circumstances does the state not have the responsiblity to protect it's citizens (no matter the age) from negligence resulting in death?
there are a million
there are a million circumstances - parental rights are overruled by the state when kids are taken away from their parents and put into foster care... But basically it boils down to neglect, which easily includes lack of necessary medical care.
I don't seee why
someone should b forced to accept modern medical science as valid. The world around us is shaped for all of us by beliefs and dogmas, things that none of us can escape. Look at our trusted medical system, that as the doctor said, has a history fraught with examples of false cures and failures up to the modern day. I mean, on the downside you can't hit God with a malpractice suit when your child dies, but, on the plus side, Merck doesn't pay for God's vacations either.
Furthermore, the earth has much more of our species than it can support - so we are going to finance the prescription ever-medicated survival of the chronically ill who grow up in environments where learning a christian fundamentalist reality that we know that we disagree with if we support this policy... brilliant.
This article or issue is not
This article or issue is not about the chronically ill. It's about giving life-saving antibiotics and the like - commonly and easily treatble illnessness that untreated result in death. Choosing to let your child die instead of giving them some antibiotics - that's criminal.
Think before you type
"so we are going to finance the prescription ever-medicated survival of the chronically ill who grow up in environments where learning a christian fundamentalist reality that we know that we disagree with if we support this policy... brilliant"
Either you accidentally just espoused the killing of children just because they are being raised as Fundamentalists, or you actually think that would be a good thing. Look, I hate the ridiculous garbage they spew as much as any other non-christian, but that doesn't mean they should be dead. Especially true for their innocent children who are just parroting back what they hear at home until they are offered the whole truth and allowed to make a decision on their own.
Yes, there are too many humans on Earth. Yes, it is terribly depressing that as responsible people realize this and rethink having kids of their own, there are some wackjobs cranking out 18 kids in a litter. The answer, however, does not lie in killing people. Allowing someone to suffer a slow medical death is particularly egregious. Even most Christians have the compassion and intelligence to avoid this. To hear such a thing come from an "enlightened" person is utterly disgusting. I would like to sarcastically thank you for playing right into the "Atheists have no morals" stereotype.
The quality of this
The quality of this reporter's insights is extraordinary.
Why does everything have to
Why does everything have to lead to such a "control" factor?
If ppl are stupid enough not to do anything about their own lives ...SO BE IT....
IT'S CALLED POPULATION CONTROL!!!
If their faith can't save them
(and their intellect and judgement calls can't either)
IT'S DELETING ANOTHER CARBON FOOTPRINT *seriously*
in other cultures it's considered karma or destiny
why does this country feel the need to control
*EVERYTHING & EVERYBODY & EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE* ? ! ?
for something to really concern yourself with go see.....
http://www.ifamericaknew.org
look at the graph on TAXES (midway down the page)
NOW THERE IS SOMETHING TO REALLY GET JACKED UP ABOUT ! ! !
This isn't a debate over people doing what they want
It's a debate about people doing what they want in terms of their kids lives. Kids who, while they are the responsibility of their parents, are not the property of their parents. Kids who may grow up to decide that medicine isn't such a bad thing.
If these people were killing themselves, I'd be all for it. The problem is they are killing their children. The same children who are so precious and defendable when they are a cluster of cells are left to suffer in the hopes that an invisible ghost will reach inside of them and kill micro-organisms or mend broken bones or cure diseases. How many people have grown up to decide that the religion they were raised under just doesn't suit them? What do you say to a person who has come to this decision, but was already crippled by an easily curable case of measles? "Sorry, your parents have the right to torture you under the law because you are their property and don't have your own rights. You surrendered those rights when you were born."
Last point: Examining a nation that allegedly doesn't sponsor one religion over another, I find it deeply troubling that a "Christian" might be allowed the rights to deny a human being medical services, but my Rastafarian brothers can get locked up for personal use marijuana which is integral to the Rastafari faith.
This is what happened to me.
This is what happened to me. I'll have hip problems my entire life from not getting proper treatment as a teen for a dislocated hip. It could have easily been fixed with physical therapy, but after waiting three years (till I became a legal adult and could seek medical care without my parents' approval) there was only so much that could be done. Some days it still pops out of place and gives me great pain. I didn't chose that; the adults who were responsible for my care left it to "god" and he failed to show up. If god really cured these people, no one would object.
not their lives
If the parents wish to decline medical treatment for themselves and die, fine, but the kids are not in a position to have taken such a radical decision. As such, the rights of the parents must first be to protect the well-being of the children. If they will not do that, then as a society we must take care of these children ourselves. Whether the parents refuse to do their duty because they are addicted to crack or religion makes no difference. The fact remains they haven't protected their children.
Well, I am atheist, so to me
Well, I am atheist, so to me it is obvious. And there are no bigger hypocrites than religious people.
Quite the quandary. The
Quite the quandary. The parents are obviously pro-life (anti-choice), yet out of indoctrination, have essentially killed their child.
While I agree that this is a form of population control, the child was in no position to make a decision regarding their medical treatment, and therefore, the parents are responsible. But again, it's their child and their loss to live with. Shouldn't that be enough punishment alone.
If you're pro-choice (which I am), think about that.
Lock these assholes away and
Lock these assholes away and any other god jerk who denies their child medical attention!
This reminds me of a story...
A New Orleans man was sitting on his porch as the first winds of Katrina were blowing. A bus from his church drove past, and his friends called to him to join them. He refused, saying "The Lord will take care of me." Later, hw was looking out his second-floor window. A boat went past, and the people in it offered him a rescue. Again, he said, "The Lord will take care of me.". Finally, sitting on his roof, a helicopter offered to carry him to safety. "The Lord will take care of me."
He died. In heaven, he said, "Lord, I trusted you! Why did I die". The reply? "I sent you a bus, a boat and a helicopter. What more did you want?"
If there is a god, he should tell the Neumanns that he gave them a phone, a 911 system, doctors and ambulances, ask them what more they wanted, then send them to their own personal hell.
OK, was what they did smart?
OK, was what they did smart? No. Was it right? Maybe not. Do I want my tax dollars to support them in prison? Hell no. Let them live with the stark consequences of their willful ignorance.
Sterilization
-
tagged as:
- solution
I agree that I don't want to pay for these people in prison, so the only real solution is forced sterilization of both the neglectful mother and father. They are free to live as they choose, but they can't bring another child into the world, only adopt (and let the adopted children die, if they make the mistake of becoming ill).
I can't decide how serious I am about this solution.
Terrorist Threat
The greatest terrorist threat to democracy is religious fundamentalist...and now we must sadly add that they are also a deadly threat to there very own children. In an enlightened society, governments purpose is to do the most it can, for the good of the most people. Any state or nation that does not protect its innocence children and others who can no longer speak for themselves is knowingly supporting torture and genocide. The founders of this nation grappled with religious intolerence amongst the 13 colonies and came up with the 1st Admendment to the U.S. Constitution. They understood the need for religious freedom and the need for the government to be seperate from religion so that it could unbiasly monitor and control religious intolerence between different religious beliefs and within religious beliefs and sects. It is past time for these states and this Nation to take appropriate action to curb these abuses within any religion that breaks the laws of this Nation and then cries, "God made me do it".
Religion and healthcare
With almost 7 billion people here, if a religiously observant person refuses health and science care for illness, and the patient lives, well, swell. And if the patient dies, give that person a Darwin award.
Of course they need to call
Of course they need to call a doctor, and should be punished for leaving the fate of a sick child in the hands of an imaginary being. Religion is not the answer to problems, it is the problem, and anyone who would pray instead of calling for real medical help should be punished. The more religion declines the better off we all are, it does the world no good to trust in make believe beings, and I can't conceive the #s of people who were killed or maimed in the the name of some make believe God though out history.
Medical Errors - A Leading Cause of Death
-
tagged as:
- result
The JOURNAL of the AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION (JAMA) Vol 284, No 4, July 26th 2000 article written by Dr Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, shows that medical errors may be the third leading cause of death in the United States.
The report apparently shows there are 2,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery; 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals; 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals; 80,000 deaths/year from infections in hospitals; 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medications - these total up to 225,000 deaths per year in the US from iatrogenic causes which ranks these deaths as the # 3 killer. Iatrogenic is a term used when a patient dies as a direct result of treatments by a physician, whether it is from misdiagnosis of the ailment or from adverse drug reactions used to treat the illness. (drug reactions are the most common cause).
I have no religion, yet would still wager a wise man would think twice before subjecting oneself to modern "medical" treatment. We absolutely need to preserve our freedom to decide for ourselves.
If capitalists want to treat medical attention as a 'product' and sick people as 'consumers' then I retain my right not to 'buy'
Perspective
-
tagged as:
- solution
I don't doubt that the numbers you listed are correct. However, I don't think you're thinking of this in the right way.
I looked around for the number of people who seek medical treatment in a year, but my google skills have failed me. I did find that the same number of people were treated by injuries sustained by lawn tools as were killed by iatrogenic causes
The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) reminds consumers to practice safety and common sense when working in their yards and gardens this summer. About 230,000 people each year are treated in hospital emergency rooms for injuries relating to various lawn and garden tools.
http://www.kidsource.com/CPSC/riding.mower.cpsc.html
Point being, what do you think the chance is of dying because of medical treatment? I'll be generous and say 3%. What do you think the chance is of dying of total absence of medical treatment? I won't even venture a guess, but I whink we can agree that it would be way above 3% Maybe by an order of magnitude. Look at death rates from the 19th century. How many people died of TB and Cholera and Polio? Now we have simple treatments or vaccines for all of these.
I understand being skeptical of the bullshit pharma-run healthcare system we have now, but you have to believe that most doctors still take their Hippocratic Oath seriously.
Top 5 causes of death by number, 2004
# Heart disease: 652,091
# Cancer: 559,312
# Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 143,579
# Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 130,933
# Accidents (unintentional injuries): 117,809
Again, 225,000 is a big number and should be a hell of a lot smaller, but if your kid has the measles or is vomiting blood or has turned yellow, let a doctor take a shot before he dies.
Perspective
Your point is taken to heart.
Note that I don't refuse 'any and all' medical treatment for myself or my family, and I wholeheartedly agree with those who commented on this site regarding the tragic stupidity of people who blindly turn away good-proven help in the face of pain and death for their children.
My concern (and I don't think this to be selfish, but necessary) is more of a slippery slope nature. I don't want to be 'forced' by a panel of physicians and politicians to 'accept' what they consider 'good odds of success.' The mention in the article of the child with lymphoma as case in point. One doctor might claim a 90% chance of survival, another 70%, and another 80%, but they are only discussing 'survival' rates, not anything else. Living or dying is not the only consideration here. Plus, predicting survival rates is like predicting the weather...it's scientifically based sure, but there's a lot of speculation going on there. Then at what point do we say a treatment has good odds of success (60%...50%)...what if all the treatments available have odds of success less than 50%, do you still force the patient to 'accept' the 'best' one...do these odds take into consideration the humiliation of radiation poisoning, balding, teeth falling out, uncontrollable bodily functions, etcetera...who decides these 'symptoms' are worth the 40% chance of survival!
Sorry for the rambling nature of this, the point is that it is up to me and my family to ultimately weigh the 'odds' of the various treatments offered, get second opinions when possible (which could include from other cultures) and decide what makes the most sense.
The day I get overruled by a bureaucrat and police officer is the day I stop taking my children to the hospital (bad for society and my family)...then you all would decry me as irresponsible and criminal, and I would continue living (alienated in poorer health) as the last truly free person out there.
Sick child care versus preventative
I wish this article (and others on this topic) would be clear about the difference in treating life-threatening illnesses versus minor illnesses or the choice for certain preventative care. I agree that religious beliefs should not put a child at risk of harm or death. I know people of diverse faiths - fundamentalist Christian and some Hindus - who choose not to have their children vaccinated and face similar criticism for it. As a mother, I have left prescriptions unfilled in lieu of seeking a more homeopathic option. At what point, will I no longer have that option? Will I have no choice but to pad the pockets of the health care industry?
DYSTOPIA
I find it amazing in a society and a website that in voracious rabidity defends the right to slaughter 50 million babies in cold blood suddenly finds a heart for life if they are opposing a religion.
___________
In both cases, the life of the child should be the concern.
I frankly see clearly the politcal action committee and platform of the democrats in their murderous baby abortion scheme for "equal womens rights" is A TERRORIST OPERATION THAT USES MURDER OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN ORDER TO FURTHER A POLITCAL GOAL.
___________
I see as well the religious group is different in the sense that they BELIEVE their actions will produce life, not death.
_________
Therefore in the former case of terrorist political action of abortion on demand, those conjoined to the matter are guilty of premeditated murder in the first or accomplice degree.
While those accidentally causing death for the 14 year old much the opposite of their intent, could be charged at best with a negligent homocide, although I'm not certain even that is proper. I would say that in the climate we have today they would have to be charged with INSANITY instead. I cannot imagine even a small minority of answers from authorities or the general public that would say they thought the prayerful healing would work. So - the defense definitely is insanity.
_______________-
In the case of the 50 million abortions, however, the murderers and their supporters know full well they are exterminating a baby (unique DNA human different from the mothers DNA can be used as court evidence for example), and they have their excuses and justifications for it, which are wholly defined by their politcal movement for it. It IS TERRORISM. Classical definition.
No punishment of course is allowed because, like 3rd world heckholes or middle east barbaric sand governments who allow other atrocities on a regular basis, the crime of baby murder has been made legal.
________________________
So the two crimes are different, the religious one is a crime of insanity, we must go with that because we have very little scientific evidence if any that religious prayer miracle healings work.
In the abortion murder scenario, it would be a first degree for the mother and doctor, and close to that for attendants and helpers, in an HONEST society. Of course in that same spirit of honesty and rule of law - exceptions for the mother's life is absolutely neccessary, although should NOT be required. If a pregnant Mother wants to go through with a risky delivery that may in fact cost her life, she should be allowed, as one cannot demand she assist in murder of her own child. She has the right to take the risk or avoid it. Self defense, no compulsion to murder, or a hope that both survive with a happy ending.
__________________________-
PS - for those ready to pounce I am not a bible thumping right wing christian.
I am a scientist.
A blind lunatic proffers insanity, and is corrected
How can a person possibly become this DERANGED.
" The greatest terrorist threat to democracy is religious fundamentalist...and now we must sadly add that they are also a deadly threat to there very own children. In an enlightened society, governments purpose is to do the most it can, for the good of the most people. Any state or nation that does not protect its innocence children and others who can no longer speak for themselves is knowingly supporting torture and genocide. "
1. we are not a DEMOCRACY, we are a " republic, for which it stands".
2. Stragnely enough non religious fundamentalists just strangle , shoot, or beat their children to death. 70 percent of the USA claims last week to be "Christian" believers. FUNDAMENTALISM is fading fast, but WAS BIGTIME ALL OVER AT THE FOUNDING OF THIS NATION, YOU GODDAMNED QUACK ! Quakers Puritans and Amish/
3. " Any state or nation that does not protect its innocence children ..."
LET ME GUESS, YOU FORGOT ABOUT THE 50 MILLION ABORTIONS HERE, THE 4,500 ABORTIONS PER DAY, RIGHT ?
and, you're all for them, 1000% !
4. I'd like to point out that it takes a turd screaming "Christian fundamentalist !" from an abortionist mass murder supporter for them to defend their goddamned death cult of baby murder for the democrat women party equality platform.
____________________________________-
Therefore it is the heigth of hilarity when some goobering moron spews out xtian fundamentalism that abhors abortion is the greatest threat to the children of the USA or any nation -
No, it is absolutely proveable the greatest threat to the any generation of childen is in fact ABORTION.
________________-
Anyway congratulations to the lunatic poster, you got one kill on the fundie wackos and they have 50 million kills on you.
You're winning mister mass murderer.
Parents offering their
Parents offering their childrens' lives to their gods?
We used to call it human sacrifice, didn't we?
Jehovah's Witness Children & Blood Transfusions
SUMMARIES OF 1400 JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MEDICAL & OTHER COURT CASES
The following website summarizes over 900 court cases and lawsuits affecting children of Jehovah's Witness Parents, including over 400 cases where the JW Parents refused to consent to life-saving blood transfusions for their dying children:
DIVORCE, BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, AND OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AFFECTING CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com
The following website summarizes over 500 Jehovah's Witnesses Employment related lawsuits, etc, including DOZENS of court cases in which JW Employees refused blood transfusions, and/or other cases involving Worker's Comp, medical, health, and disability issues:
EMPLOYMENT ISSUES UNIQUE TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESS EMPLOYEES
http://jwemployees.bravehost.com
this is such a tricky
this is such a tricky subject. The way i think if you a doctor can save you please go to the doctor. I am not sure if the courts should get involved.
God's Love found in the care of people
-
tagged as:
- result
i believe in God...as exemplified by Our Lord Jesus Christ (who is God the Son)...and He did heal a countless people because God intends our life to be healthier and and our life span longer...but we are all merely human beings...also capable to be in need of healing...
and as much as Lord Jesus Christ said, "love one another"...then we must also depend upon one another...especially for everyone's welfare to be cared for...human beings have been blessed by God with an intelligent mind...found in the search to alleviate the health of the needy...and that includes welfare professions to uplift the health of those who are in need...
therefore, everyone must appeciate this God-given gift when intelligence is used to uplift the health of all Humanity...then God's Love is found in the care of people...this could possibly be a better fulfillment for the purpose of religion for a genuine faith...to protect the welfare of the needy...
but in this situation...there is also God's forgiveness...but then again, caring to protect the life of others (especially one's children) is also part of the government system...such as the law...
It is a complete nonsense. I
It is a complete nonsense. I am shocked to read about things like that nowadays. We are living in the modern society and still there are some naive people that believe GOD will do everything for them? It is crazy. This kid was absolutely innocent, and we can say that her parents left her to die. We have to do something with the people like these. But it is hard to look after everyone.. People just have to realize that the God won't do everything for them and that's all.
Hot miniclip Action Games
Hot miniclip Action Games Barbie Dress up Games Bratz Girls Games Cartoons Games Celebrity Games Coloring Pages Games Cooking Games Drive Games Girls Dress up Games Kids Games
Makeover Girls Games
Other
Puzzle Racing
Roiworld Games
Room Decor Games Shooting
Sports Games
العاب
girls games
العاب هانا مونتانا
العاب فلة
hguhf
العاب طبخ
العاب باربي
العاب بنات جديدة
العاب
موقع العاب
العاب سيارات
العاب سبيستون
العاب براتز
العاب اولاد
العاب بنات فقط
العاب قص شعر
العاب مجانيه
العاب ستروبري شورت كيك
العاب رقص
العاب بنات
العاب
العاب بنات
العاب تلبيس
العاب اولاد
العاب براتز
العاب باربي
العاب طبخ
العاب مكياج وميك اب
العاب اطفال
العاب سيارات
العاب قص الشعر
العاب
العاب فلاش
العاب ماريو
العاب بنات
العاب g9g
العاب
العاب بنات
العاب طبخ
العاب اكشن
العاب سيارات
العاب باربي
العاب طبخ
العاب باربي
العاب بنات جديدة
العاب
موقع العاب
العاب سيارات
العاب سبيستون
العاب براتز
العاب اولاد
العاب بنات فقط
العاب قص شعر
العاب مجانيه
العاب ستروبري شورت كيك
العاب رقص
العاب بحرية
العاب زوارق
العاب جديدة
العاب فلة
العاب هانا مونتانا
يوتيوب
العاب
العاب بنات
girls games
العاب g9g
العاب براتز
العاب اولاد
hguhf
عيش سفارى
العاب تلبيس باربي
العاب براتس
العاب بنات شمس
يوتيوب
العاب
العاب بنات
العاب
العاب بنات
العاب تلبيس
العاب اولاد
العاب براتز
العاب باربي
العاب اكشن
العاب تلبيس زفاف
العاب سونك
العاب
العاب ماريو
العاب
العاب باربي
العاب مكياج و ميك اب
العاب طبخ
العاب تلبيس بنات
العاب ترتيب
العاب ديكور
العاب بنات
العاب اطفال
العاب كرتون
العاب سيارات
العاب اكشن
العاب ذكاء
العاب دراجات
العاب رياضية
العاب قتالية
العاب بازل و متاهات
العاب ورق
العاب تصويب ونشان
العاب حربية
العاب فلاش
العاب مغامرات
العاب تلوين
العاب عربية
العاب قص الشعر
العاب تلبيس فنانات و مشاهير celebrity
العاب بنات دولز
صور
فيديو
العاب
منتدى العاب شمس
توبيكات
برامج ماسنجر
افلام
مسجات
قصص وروايات
برامج كمبيوتر
رموز ماسنجر
العاب شمس اكشن
العاب شمس تلوين
العاب شمس فلاش
العاب شمس فلاشات مضحكة
العاب شمس دراجات و دبابات
العاب شمس طبخ
العاب شمس العاب
العاب شمس قتال و حركة
العاب شمس اطفال
العاب شمس تلبيس
العاب شمس عربية
العاب شمس براتز
العاب شمس سونيك
العاب شمس تلبيس افراح
العاب شمس مغامرات و الغاز
العاب شمس ذكاء
العاب شمس ميك اب
العاب شمس باربي
العاب شمس اولاد
العاب شمس قص الشعر
العاب شمس سيارات
العاب شمس كرتون
العاب شمس ورق
العاب شمس ترتيب غرف
العاب شمس ماريو
اخبار المراة
تدبير منزلى
ترفيه
عالم الحياة الززوجية
ملابس اطفال
قمصان نوم
نصائح طبخ
اطباق سريعة
معجنات
شوربات
ساندوتشات
ديكور
لفات طرح
لفات حجاب
عالم حواء
ريجيم ورشاقة
مطبخ حواء
ازياء
حناء
عطور
ميك اب
صور
قصص
اسعار الذهب
وظائف
فيديو
اتيكيت
فساتين محجبات
ازياء
اكلات
حلويات
الطب البديل والاعشاب
صحة المراة
العروس
اكسسوارات
مكياج
ديكور
عصائر و مشروبات
تفسير الاحلام
طبخ
العناية بالازواج
العاب بنات
العناية بالشعر والبشرة
صحة المراة
زواج
قمصان نوم
الثقافة الجنسية
عبايات
ديكور
العاب سيارات
العاب العروسة سيو دولز
العاب باربي barbie
العاب براتز
العاب تلبيس
العاب ديكور
العاب طبخ
العاب قص الشعر
العاب مشاهير
العاب مكياج
العاب هانا مونتانا
العاب تلوين
العاب حيوانات
العاب ديزنى
العاب سوبر ماريو و سونيك
العاب كرتون و انمى افلام و مسلسلات
العاب اولاد
العاب الغاز
العاب ذاكرة و ورق
العاب مغامرات و اثارة
العاب باربي
العاب اكشن و مغامرات بنات
العاب ديكور و ترتيب الغرف
العاب تلوين رسوم متحركة
العاب ازياء و فاشون و موضة التلبيس
العاب مشاهير
اخبار
افلام
افلام كرتون و مقاطع انمى
كليبات المرأه عالم حواء
كليبات و مقاطع متنوعة
مقاطع فضائح
مقاطع فيديو دينية اسلامية
مقاطع فيديو رياضية
123 peppy
مقاطع مضحكة
توبيكات
يوتيوب
العاب
games
العاب بنات
العاب شمس
برامج سوفت
عالم حواء
العاب بنات
العاب بنات يومية
العاب g9g
العاب
hot miniclip
نادى السيارات
عالم السيارات
دليل
العاب جيمز
برامج
برامج انترنت وشبكات
صور وسمايلات ماسنجر
اخبار
مسلسلات اجنبية
افلام اجنبية
تحميل افلام
تنزيل برامج
ثيمات موبايل
نغمات موبايل
شات
تحميل العاب
مسرحيات
افلام كرتون وانمى
اغانى
اناشيد
يوتيوب
توبيكات رومانسية
توبيكات اسلامية
برامج بورتابل portable
العاب تورنت
ميديا واعلانات
اناشيد طيور الجنة
صور
مسجات
قصص
توبيكات رومانسية
توبيكات اسماء
العاب صغيرة للاطفال
توبيكات اغانى
توبيكات اسلامية
صور سيارات
كاريكاتير
صور بنات
عالم حواء
ازياء
مطبخ
ديكور
برامج الكمبيوتر
برامج انترنت
العاب العرب
العاب هانا مونتانا
هانا مونتانا
تعاريف drivers
ويندوز 7 windows
برامج كمبيوتر
برامج نوكيا
ايفون iphone
تورنت
برامج تحميل و داونلود
webcam ويب كام
برامج تحويل الفيديو و الصوت
العاب كمبيوتر
جدار نارى فايروول firewall
Kaspersky Internet Security
antivirus انتى فايروس
فوتوشوب
برامج صور
برامج نت
WinRAR
ياهو ماسنجر
برامج فيديو وصوت
p2p
برامج عربية ومعربة
منتدى برامج سوفت
برامج
