The Catholic Church, AIDS, Condoms, and Specious Arguments
In a post Ross Douthaut called The AIDS Libel, he employs some dubious rhetoric in defense of the church's insistence on abstinence, vice condoms, in the face of an African epidemic. First he demands proof that African Catholics have higher infection rates. OK, to save time, I'll give him that one. But not this one:
...consider that Benedict XVI is the head of an international institution that does as much to fight disease and poverty as any NGO in the world. The Church runs hospitals, clinics, and schools; it channels hundred of millions of dollars in donations from the developed world to the wretched of the earth; it supports thousands upon thousands of priests, nuns and laypeople who work in some of the most difficult and dangerous conditions in the world. And it does so based on the same premises—an attempt to be faithful to the commandments of Jesus Christ—that undergird the Pope's insistence on preaching chastity, rather than promoting prophylactics. There are many other NGOs working in Africa that proceed from different premises, and take a different attitude toward matters sexual as a result, and if David Rothkopf prefers their approach that's perfectly understandable. But unless he's willing to tell the Catholic Church that it should fold up its charitable operations in the developing world and go home, I'd prefer to be spared the lectures on how the Pope is responsible for "massive death and suffering" among populations for whom Catholic institutions have provided lifelines beyond counting over the years, just because he isn't willing to to use his pulpit to preach the importance of playing it as safe as possible, health-wise, while you're committing what the Church considers mortal sin.
Let's begin with this: Where does the church get the bazillions it dispenses as largesse around the world? From individuals and from the incredible wealth it's amassed over time based on its influence. It didn't earn that money; it was given that money. And that bankroll rightly belongs to the world and should be spent there.
When the Pope gives up his mansions and jewel encrusted hand towels, I'll be impressed with his munificence. The church has a duty to the world to do the good it does. That's why we give it money (tax exemption, anyone?). To make the world better.
Next: Because the Catholic Church conducts large scale charity, it cannot be criticized?
It reminds me of the colonialist apologia that goes something like: "Sure, we'll apologize for our supposed imperialism in the Third World. Then we'll apologize for building all the roads and schools, etc. etc." Please. You steal my car then expect praise for getting the oil changed regularly? Why not argue that the church can't be criticized for the pedophilia it blighted the Earth with, while doing all that charity work, unless we're willing to ask them to take their ball and go home.
Douthaut should have stuck to his first tactic. He can buy himself a lot of time while his critics gather these unnecessary statistics; it's a first year debate trick but you can keep a straight face going there in this case (what if you're not an African Catholic but the only hospital for miles around is and refuses to give out condoms lest you commit a mortal sin?). But the argument that the Church can't be criticized without a simultaneous refusal of its largesse just won't fly. That's all our money; Benedict is just its steward.
Well written but wrong...
Ms. Dickerson,
your prose is a lovely read and your ability to write with invective masterly. It is unfortunate, however, that you are completely wrong. The critics seem to be correct when they say that to be anti-Catholic is the last acceptable bigotry.
Peace!
Exactly how/where does the Church gets its bucks?
You'd agree that it's among the richest, most influential institutions on the planet, no?
But, you got me: were we talking about Buddhists or Southern Baptists or atheists (who demanded foreswearance of religion before dispensing condoms), I'd have said not a word.
Debra J. Dickerson
MoJo Blogger
"Let's begin with this:
"Let's begin with this: Where does the church get the bazillions it dispenses as largesse around the world? From individuals and from the incredible wealth it's amassed over time based on its influence. It didn't earn that money; it was given that money. And that bankroll rightly belongs to the world and should be spent there."
Are you insane?
By the way, if you've gotten any tax exemptions, I'd like my money now please.
"what if you're not an African Catholic but the only hospital for miles around is and refuses to give out condoms lest you commit a mortal sin?"
Gee, I don't know, self control is always an option.
Bigotry by any other name
Sorry Debra Dickerson, but this piece of unbalanced, unreasoned shrill screed reveals that you are a bigot. I suppose you will find it comforting that your bigotry is only anti-Catholic bigotry. I say that it's ugly regardless.
Pope and Condoms
If the author of this article is wrong then we will all have to face the implications of the pontifical prophylactic hypothesis -it has ramifications beyond HIV/AIDS.
Surgeons must abandon gloves to reduce the likelihood of infection. If latex can’t protect penises, it will fail on fingers – there are more of them and they have nails!
smitisan
So anybody who criticizes anywho, anywhat, anywhere is a bigot now? What doeas that make the Pope?
"You signed the papers. You wanted to be here!" -Drill Sgt. Leach, 1971
Keep it up
tagged as:- solution
Thanks for taking on the hypocrisy of the established religious institutions. When they laud themselves for their generosity, and the privilege that goes with it, they NEVER mention how much money is denied to the public because they can shelter their income (and disclosure) from paying taxes. They hide so much and then want credit for what they do show.
It takes as much courage to criticize them as it does to point out the flaws in the Israeli argument. Those who don't pay any attention to the amount of suffering they cause suddenly defend them as so pious that we shouldn't point out what they get away with.
We should be laughing these people off the face of the earth. They do not deserve respect - even if we tolerate ignorance and superstition, we shouldn't be paying for it as well.
Preaching to the faithful to
Preaching to the faithful to put dogma over health...is bad but its worse to preach it to all, and in the midst of an epidemic that has orphaned more children in Africa than anywhere else... One person can infect many . One errant husband can infect many including a dutiful faithful wife who would be suspicious if a faith-full as well as allegedly faithful husband suddenly used a condom for marital sex..so a husband conveniently can expose his wife to deadly disease and condemn his children to being orphans in the posture of virtue. Thanks, Pope.
We know the real concern is not their lives but their possible use of anything for birth control!
Condoms in Afrida
I am surprised this interview by Edward Green, leader of the Harvard AIDs research project and a leading expert on AIDs in Africa and elsewhere has not received more attention...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702825.html
The Pope May Be Right
By Edward C. Green
Sunday, March 29, 2009; A15
When Pope Benedict XVI commented this month that condom distribution isn't helping, and may be worsening, the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa, he set off a firestorm of protest. Most non-Catholic commentary has been highly critical of the pope. A cartoon in the Philadelphia Inquirer, reprinted in The Post, showed the pope somewhat ghoulishly praising a throng of sick and dying Africans: "Blessed are the sick, for they have not used condoms."
Yet, in truth, current empirical evidence supports him.
Rethinking AIDS Prevention: Learning from Successes in Developing Countries (Praeger, 2003) by Edward Green
The author looks objectively at countries that have succeeded in reducing HIV infection rates...along with a worrisome flip side to the progress. The largely medical solutions funded by major donors have had little impact in Africa, the continent hardest hit by AIDS. Instead, relatively simple, low-cost behavioral change programs--stressing increased monogamy and delayed sexual activity for young people--have made the greatest headway in fighting or preventing the disease's spread. Ugandans pioneered these simple, sustainable interventions and achieved significant results.
Catholicism has a unique
Catholicism has a unique attitude toward sexuality. Birth control even within a marriage is considered wrong as all sexual acts must allow the possibility of a pregnancy. There are other sexual acts that the church also prohibits because they do not result in procreation. It is also one of the great reasons they oppose homosexuality. The Catholic premise is that sex is wrong unless it is solely for procreation. Looked at in this way, it is not the immorality of sex per se, it is the lack of procreative possibility. This is not a judgement, just a fact.
I do not think that
I do not think that charitable acts excuses the church from realistically looking at the AIDS crisis in Africa or absolves them from at least not interfering with attempts of others to save people from this disease. It is a dilemma in our times that dogma trumps science when it comes to protecting human life still. To me it is the height of shamefully irresponsible behaviour for the Pope to state "condoms cause AIDS" when simple stating that he continues to support abstinence would have been enough and within his scope, however I might not agree with it. By magically equating condoms to the spread of AIDs, however, he becomes a liar and an accesory to murder, I think.
Pope and African Aids
tagged as:- solution
First, these people who take it upon themselves to preach to other people that they should practice abstinance and monogamy are indulging in hubris of the greatest magnitude. Did these people go through adolescence with a total absence of gonadal influences? I challenge them to remember being age 16.
Secondly, Christ condemned only two things, hypocracy and money-changers in the temple. His commandments were to Love God and Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself.
He never mentionded a thing about sexual practices. So why are the Pope and all the other Sadducces and Pharisees in organized religion so obsessed with sex?
I my mind the only real morality is the relief of human suffering and the only sin is the creation and extension of human suffering. The relief of human suffering is what the true mission of moral people should be.
The Pope's Comments
As perhaps the most successful business (term used intentionally) - bar none - for thousands of years, the Catholic Church found that making procreation a sacrament produced a plethora of money-generating opportunities - children who gave money to the church, had many children.... and so on. With the production of many children per family, there was an absolutely assured revenue stream, always nurtured and encouraged by the carefully chosen references to Biblical text for validation. The thought of straying from the fold, challenging the edicts, or any other demonstration of free thinking was met with the threat of excommunication, damnation, and everlasting hell. Historically, the church has not distinguished itself in many other ways as well, but the arrogant and self-serving pronouncement about condoms could be considered at least consistent with some of the other situations of its own making - the whole area of pedophile priests being acceptable until someone raises enough public outrage for them to pay attention.
Fast forward to Africa, and the thought that contraception might prevent the spread of HIV/Aids... does the Pope want even the slightest hint that condoms may prevent the spread of a deadly disease, and oh, by the way, help deal with an already unsupportable and unstoppable population explosion? Um, NO! Where would the revenue come from then, for the gold, silver, silk of the vestments, or the palace that is the Vatican (or by extension, to the whole incredibly intricate and wealthy bureaucracy that is the church structure), if people suddenly took the expert's advice and predictions on the various shortages relating to population - not only food, but clean water and oxygen - and stopped having big Catholic families? If abstinence is really a viable alternative to condoms - it is also an means of birth control - so how do we communicate this razors edge of sophistication to people that are just trying to put food in the mouths of their children? How does one tell these people that their normal sexual urges have to be put on hold unless they gratify them only with the intent to procreate, and then tell them how to justify another mouth to feed!
Roman Ridiculousness
The anti-condom stance of the Roman Church is dictated solely by dogma and has a remarkable parallel in its position on abortion, in effect saying that it is better for a mother to die giving birth than to terminate her pregnancy. The Catholic Church is the Church of Death. For a delightful analysis of the principle behind all of this ludicrousness, check out:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-personhood.htm
Church Wealth
In this weeks US and news and World reports is an article that christianity is at an all time low in the US. There seems to be a minor resurgence in the NW but nothing that shock anyone. Yes the Catholic church has turned contributions into gold and the many lavish building it has (especially in ROME). IMO the Pope and the rest of the vatican are living in a make believe world where religion is important. Hint people religion (at least Christianity) is caught up in their own imminent death.
The priest sex scandal is one of quite a few items that the Church has not really dealt with except maybe to deny it. The other Christians have their own issues of money hoarding and sex scandals (of both types) on their hands. The church is hoping it will go away it will NOT.
The disgraced ministers of many churches are headlines the public has gotten used to and see through the smoke that these ministers are proclaiming and are tired of it and have either stopped going to church or go occasionally. The people that run both churches have nothing to blame except themselves.
Practically every religion is being left in the dust because people cannot trust any churches now days.
Frankly the big mouths that go around spouting HATE are just nuts. We should just not even cover any of the events as you are just helping them broadcast hate.
The people who do not believe in evolution need to be taught that one can hold their own beliefs in private and they cannot legislate or bully or anything. These nuts are lot more short than a few pennies in their brain there are missing dollar bills.
Until religion wakes up and creates a system where people can live together without hate or animosity they are doomed.
You posters are VERY VERY
tagged as:- result
You posters are VERY VERY "Spaced Out" of Reality about the Catholic Church, and how and why it operates:
(1) The Catholic Church is the Very Opposite of a Business. It is the world's largest and most ideal Charity, wityh by Far lowest overhead overall.
(2) AIDES has increased in most African countries where the Big Business of "selling" the Use of Condoms has been focused.
African Nations like Uganda and others have changed focus Correctly from Rubbers to the "One Lover Lifetime" that Society bacj to earliest Humans, and even Geese have followed, with greatest success.
And guess where homicides, domestic violence, and most human evils happen: Free Sex, no morals! Don't know reality? Check it out.
(3) The Only "Wealth", kids, that the Church has is in its Arts, Statues, Culture. still believe the make believe that the Vatican has vast wealth, etc? It Does Not!
Many Orders are Vow of Poverty.
And, the Big One: Clergy of the Church are Opposite of Your Big Money, Money is everything attitude. It is All Moral Principles of helpin others, every way, including Inner City Schools, the most ideal Health Systems And Individuals.
(4) Virtuially No Wars have been "Religious" Virtually all wars, Including Ireland, have been Groups, "Tribes", Organizations Seeking independence, political Power Using Religion for Their Earthly Reasons.
Tye Catholic Church is the Most Ideal, most Idealistic Large organization on earth. I am about to Publish on that.
And the Catholic Church has the only Idealism of any large Organization on Earth. That is why World Youth Day in Manila a decade ago drew the largest gatherihng in Human History: 8 Million people!
deluded
As an atheist, I think that most religious people are deluded. Protestants are the most dangerous type, but only because most "Catholics" are lapsed. (It is easier to see the illogic of it all in a religion so steeped in ritual, I suppose.)
It is much more apparent to those outside of ANY religion that they all have the potential to do great harm on a macro level even if they do good on a micro level. Religion can be a comfort to individual people, but it can be horrible to whole classes of people (homosexuals, women, people of other faiths). Sure, Catholics build hospitals. It's a good thing they staff those hospitals with people who believe in scientific research or they'd still be curing people with exorcism and prayer.
I really wish that people of all religions would learn to butt out. Leave everyone else alone. You don't like condoms or abortion or birth control? Fine, don't use them. But don't make it a mission to make sure I can't get them. I am not your problem. The only person you need to worry about going to hell is yourself.
Catholocism is absolutely a business. Anyone who believes otherwise is shockingly naive. And everyone moaning about the budget deficit (mostly Republicans who tend to be more religious) should take a look at taxing religions as businesses.
dickerson and the facts about the Catholic Church
It is easy to recognize an anti-Catholic bigot, because like all bigots, they refuse to consider facts. Even the head of Harvard University's aids in africa institute has said that the Pope's statements on condom and aids in africa is true. Condoms have been a failed strategy for fighting aids for many reasons in Africa and we should face up to that and look for something that does work.
Also, the idea that the Catholic Church rich institution is equally false. The Vatican's annual budget is less that a middle size American university. Catholics contribute money they have earned because they want to support the Church and its good works. The notion that its the worlds money and they should have it back is just silly, as you can say that about any one or institution that has money. Are you advocating world communism? Good luck with that. The Church does have a world class art collection, but owning priceless art does you pay you a competitive return (if it did we would have thousands of private for profit art galleries, which of course we don't). Ask your local museum if it is rich. And there are few buyers for their art, so they couldn't sell most if it to give to the poor anyway.