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HBO's Self-Hating Ageism
I've never seen HBO's Hung. Long hours, new baby, refusal to give Comcast one more dime of my money. But I've heard it's good, one of those things that, like The Wire, or Mad Men, or Weeds, I'd have to content myself with getting to a season (or three) after everybody else, but be extremely psyched to rent.
That is until I read this NYT profile of Anne Heche, the star of Hung, which was clipping along in its Anne Heche weirdness, until I got to this doorstopper of a sentence:
“We auditioned a lot of people,” says Colette Burson, the co-creator of “Hung.” “It is incredibly difficult to find beautiful, talented, funny women over 35.”
Um...WTF? No secret that ageism against women in Hollywood is rampant, ridiculous, repugnant. But so naked? And from a woman? Who is herself 40? What form of self-hating do you even call that? Plus were we not just subjected to 18 months of cougarmania from Hollywood?
I can think of a ton of actresses over the age of 35 who are beautiful, talented AND funny. Let's start with Amy Poehler, Sarah Silverman, Christina Applegate, Jane Krakowski, Mary-Louise Parker, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus, who had a poignant (and of course, hilarious) discussion of ageism in the entertainment industry with the Hollywood Reporter (see clip here). Like being cast as a mother of someone you're only 8 years older than. Or being told, as Christina Applegate was, that at 35, she was too old to be on the cover of a glossy mag (ladies, my offer to put any or all of you on the cover of Mother Jones still stands).
But back to Colette Burson. Shame on you. [She's issued a long clarification, see below.] As for the rest of us, ponder these facts when you go to buy your next ticket, or pick your next rental. Guess I won't be renting Hung after all. [I'll take her at her word and give it a shot.]
Actresses over 40 account for 9% of movie roles. Actors over 40 account for 30%.
Anne Bancroft was 36 when she played Mrs. Robinson in The Graduate. Dustin Hoffman was 30.
Chances that a Best Actress winner portrayed a prostitute, a nun, or a mute: 1 in 8.
UPDATE: Burson gave a long impassioned clarification to Melissa Silverstein at WomenandHollywood.com, who'd interviewed her previously. I'm reprinting it here in its entirety, because a) only fair b) while it may let Burson off the hook, it goes to show just how deep the problem is:
I do think it’s always hard to find pretty and funny. It’s a difficult combo and it’s something that’s talked about in Hollywood. Blonde and funny. And that is definitely true with Anne. She’s very funny and real and she’s blonde and she’s pretty. And this role happens to be for a beauty queen who needed to have serious emotional acting chops and at the same time was funny. [stay with her, people...Though also: Meg Ryan anyone? Roxanne Arquette?]
In terms of the quote: it is such a shame that I was either too tired to express myself correctly on the issue or part of my quote was left out because it is something that I think about a lot and I actually consider myself a warrior on front lines of this issue. It’s something I am actively involved in on a daily basis in a way that most people are not. Nevertheless I do think that the part that I would have added or the part I hope I did add was that it is difficult to find an actress over 35 or over 40 who is funny and talented and is still working and has not quit the business.
And by difficult I mean harder than you think. There are not hundreds of people who show up for the auditions because you need someone who has been working, and you need someone whose agent sends them. In my personal experience I know five actresses off the top of my head if not 10 who are around the age of 40 who no longer go on auditions anymore because they are too fucking bummed out by how few roles there are.
Just to illustrate: Dmitry (Lipkin her husband and co-creator of Hung) and I went into CAA and we were talking about all the different roles and I said what we are really going to be looking for is an actress around age 40 who is talented and funny and yet can really act. They seemed to not want to address my question so I brought it up again and they said what about x? (a well known 45 year old film actress) I said no, we don’t want to cast celebrities. We want to cast real women and this is a rare opportunity. We don’t want you to send us your beautiful starlets. Send us real women with real bodies who can act and who can be comedic. And he looked sort of sheepish and said I’m really ashamed to tell you we don’t have anyone like that on our list.
I said you mean to tell me that you this huge agency can’t send us a woman who is 40 and they said no. And he said I know it’s horrible but it’s the state of the business that they really aren’t a lot of roles for them.
It’s such a bummer. When you cast a role, casting agents will send you who has been working. My friends who haven’t had a job in five years who quit because it was such a fucking bummer they are not sent out because they don’t have managers anymore. They are not in the game anymore and it’s not because they aren’t talented. Of course they’re talented.
So what I am saying is that it’s hard and the situation is more complex than you would think. Because we are one of the few shows that frequently has these types of roles open…like the role of Tanya. How often does that type of role occur? Jane Adams is this gem and people say why don’t we see her working more? And the answer is because there haven’t been that many roles for her. We actually wrote a role for a failed poet who is over 40 and she is not ms fabulous. She doesn’t wear clothes from Neiman Marcus or Fred Segal.
So I hope the message will get out there. Maybe I was tired, maybe I was a dumb ass but I feel so passionately about the issue. But that aside our actions on a daily basis is that we fight this issue. We conceive of characters that are women over 35 of all body types. We debate them and we fill them out in the writers room. So please forgive me for the asinine quote but look at what we are actually doing because we passionately care about this issue.
Wow, CCA doesn't represent one comic actress over the age of 40 who has a real body? What does Oprah (client) say about THAT!
Update II: More on CAA here.
Clara Jeffery is Co-Editor of Mother Jones. You can follow me on Twitter here. That's how Melissa Silverstein contacted me, you can find her here.






























HBO's Self-Hating Ageism
Great commentary on Colette Burson's thoughtless words. I have to think they were thoughtless, or at least hope they were thoughtless. My hope is that maybe Colette got caught up in the hype of her new show and excitement of being in that world. I wonder if New York Times guy, Alex Witchel actually called Colette Burson and spoke to her. If so, I kinda hope that Colette was on the phone feeling nervous and spoke her words about beauty out of simple nervousness about being quoted in the NYT. I suspect she has already started back-pedalling on her words. She better. She's getting a pretty nice smackdown on Twitter now. She might want to throw some water on the flames before she ends up at the table facing Barbara and Whoopi.
Other funny actresses over 35:
Tina Fey
Diane Keaton
Cynthia Nixon
Parker Posey
Samantha Bee
Rachel Dratch
Drew Barrymore
Cameron Diaz
Margaret Cho
Janeane Garafolo
Portia Di Rossi
Kristen Wiig
Debra Messing
Megan Mulally
Jennifer Anisten
Courtney Cox
Lisa Kudrow
we could play this game all day
Maya Rudolph
Bonnie Hunt
Bebe Neuwirth
Catherine Keener
Annie Potts
Frances McDormand
Holly Hunter
Minnie Driver
Sandra Bullock
Kristin Scott Thomas
Tea Leoni
Emma Watson
Geena Davis
Edie Falco
Toni Collette
And this, combined with the list above from Anna Clark, just begins to scratch the surface. The idea that there's some sort of vacuum when it comes to funny & beautiful women over 35 is one of the stupidest things I've heard in a while.
Hot Funny Women over 40
Shame on YOU Colette Burson!!! How sad that there are any women who allow themselves to swallow the swill that is the hollywood sexist ageist discriminating machine!!! Props to Clara Jeffrey for exposing this ongoing travesty.
No talent and ruined looks
Sad and true at the same time and it`s an industry insider telling the truth. They all look worn, tired, botoxed and tucked and with massive amounts of makeup. Rotten feet, unhealthy skin, scar-twitching ruins with an ongoing, evergrowing, sense of unfullfilled entitlement. Afterall just vaudeville "beauties" made a bit glossier since the inception of colorprinting...always envied but nevertheless at the bottom of the intellectual foodchain.
Clear this man
has not read "The Relationship Reconstruction Project" and needs to learn how to treat woman.
Sounds like another male
Sounds like another male link in the hollywood sexist ageist machine to me...
In fairness, I think you are
In fairness, I think you are missing her point. She was talking about beautiful, talented, funny women over 35 who are also (a) available for that gig and (b) suitable to play the character -- a somewhat bitter mother of teenagers in her mid-40s. NOBODY mentioned in the article or comments would fill that bill. For some of the listed women (Tina Fey, Cameron Diaz), the job is way beneath their pay grades; for others (Sarah Silverman, Margaret Cho), the job is outside their interests/skill sets; and others.
You could only make this
You could only make this statement if you were also a part of the "machine". Congrats for making that as plain as day.
Missed the point
Yes, I think the author missed the point too. An actress would have to be *available and in the 40-45 age range* All the actresses you mention - Amy Poehler, Sarah Silverman, Christina Applegate, Jane Krakowski, Mary-Louise Parker, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus - are already working on/starring in their own shows. And these are shows that were built around them! That says a lot right there. Plus everyone knows now that television is the place for over-40 actresses to shine; it's not the movies anymore by a long shot.
Unless you interviewed her
Unless you interviewed her there is no way you could possibly make that assumption. Take it for what is written. Remember what happens when you assume.
I recorded the first episode
I recorded the first episode of Hung. About 12 minutes into it, I stopped watching and deleted it. Stupid premise, stupid show.
Love it!
I am officially a fan. I live in Hollywood and the sexism and ageism sucks.
I'm guessing you spend most your time in a huff
...if that comment offended you enough to blog about it.
It IS incredibly difficult to find beautiful, talented funny women over 35. Also quirkily-handsome, funny young men, as Burson might have noted had the Times writer been profiling Charlie Saxton; lord knows what alarm in you that would have tripped.
And though this seems painfully obvious to me, I guess not: Stressing the casting challenge Heche solved was a nice way for Burson to compliment her star in an important profile of her.
Shame on her? Shame on you. Your kind of humorless grievance-monger give the rest of us liberals a bad rep.
humorless vs. clueless, who wins
This is crazy. Do you think that the beautiful/talented/funny 25-year-old women who were auditioning for roles in 1999 have all vanished off the earth's surface? Is this just a fact in your world? You know, actresses don't vanish into the winds like old seed pods when they hit thirty.
I'm not offended by the comment as a matter or ageism or sexism, I'm offended by the sheer, utter stupidity of it. It's insulting to hundreds, perhaps thousands, of actresses who could have been good in Ann Heche's role. She wasn't stating a preference for a type of actor, something where there's artistic license. She and you are both stating it as some kind of fact: these women just literally don't exist.
Honestly, could you be any more superficial?
In addition, this thoughtless remark that you're endorsing is the complete opposite of HBO's casting strategies in the past, which have brought us many brilliant actors who did not have the name recognition or looks of Anne Heche. Among many choices, I might point out 46-year-old Edie Falco, who is not especially attractive, but who is an incandescent actor in both comedy and dramatic roles.
My point -- and I believe
My point -- and I believe Burson's -- was not that these women don't exist, or that one shouldn't look for them. Just that casting any role is hard. And it is. There are far fewer beautiful/talented/funny 25 year-olds out there than it sounds like you imagine, too, which may account for your difficulty absorbing our simple point.
"It IS incredibly difficult
"It IS incredibly difficult to find beautiful, talented funny women over 35..." yet another comment from a link in the hollywood male driven sexist ageist machine thinking with the little head.
I bet it's like this in all
I bet it's like this in all industries; I know it's true in entertainment:
There is a perception among people not in a position to know that the world must be bursting with talented actors, if only those in power would open their eyes/broaden their criteria/"stop thinking with their hollywood sexist ageist mach..." oh lordie, you sound like a pill.
It makes a superficial kind of sense, I suppose. I mean, there sure are a lot of people in the world, right? You just gotta figure a bunch of them can act. Cuz, guy, and stuff, how hard is acting?
And yet, I don't care what you are casting -- and between TV, films, and commercials there is a demand for all races, ages and looks -- the casting sessions are always endless, serialized disappointment. When someone walks through the door who has the goods they are snapped up immediately. Which is why the chances of finding someone who is beautiful, talented, over thirty-five, and not already Sandra Bullock are pretty daunting.
And, by the way, absolutely worth the effort. Burson certainly didn't give up. She just mentioned it wasn't easy.
So by all means bite her and my head off, indignant huffs are the crack of liberals, and free!
But later, if only for a moment, give some thought to the crazy idea that maybe the woman who does this for a living knows what she's talking about.
I didn't know that Sarah Silverman was beautiful
Thanks for cluing me in.
Liz Taylor was beautiful; so was Greta Garbo.
If Silverman is beautiful, then so is every female on the face of the earth - in a general, Holden Caulfield kind of way.
I like 'Hung' so far. I thought that the scene between between Tom Jane and "Molly" in Episode 4 was beautifully done and I also want to say that I really like the actress Jane Adams, too. Not only does she play her part (as the pimp) well, she's also - what I would call - beautiful, in a quirky way.
lord have mercy
You know, I really like being a guy, but sometimes my fellow chromosome mates remind of the guy in "Throw Momma From the Train" who wrote a whole short story that was basically a list of women he'd like to sleep with.
Not everyone is to everyone's taste. Not everyone on that list above is going to be beautiful to everyone.
However, Sarah Silverman is widely considered attractive, and many would say beautiful. In fact, she uses her looks in her comedy by playing against type, being gross, unfeminine.
http://www.topnews.in/usa/files/sarah-silverman-wins-EMMY-Award.jpg
http://www.mtv.com/shared/promoimages/movies/movies_blog/060307_sarah3.j...
On Being Male
Oh, my dear lord, she's gorgeous.
For the most part anymore I feel the same about being male as I do about being a member of the human species: rather embarrassed and apologetic.
This post and several
This post and several comments are completely clueless. Anna Clark -- great suggestion of Diane Keeton to play a mother of teenagers in Hung. And pointing to people like Fey, Poehler, Louise-Parker -- who *already have their own shows* and would not very well take a smallish *supporting role* in a non-network, HBO series -- is beyond absurd. This is not a role for a superstar (Anne Heche is far from a major TV/movie star), and suggestions like Jennifer Anniston, Minnie Driver, or Sandra Bullock for that role are just ridiculous. Those women almost exclusively do films now, and nearly always leads, for major money. They are not going to be taking calls from an HBO casting director about an audition to play a supporting role!
Look, I share your disgust at Hollywood, and that video of Applegate, Poehler, etc reveals a lot of what is wrong about Hollywood, but this stray comment is not really deplorable. Taken alone and shorn of context, yes, it could look bad. But the real point she was making is that it was hard finding "a beautiful, talented, funny women over 35" who would be available and willing to play a tertiary, supporting role on a brand new HBO series, without breaking budget.
doubt it
I find that hard to believe. Did you ever notice that the supporting actors in a film or TV show -- the unknown folks -- are often better at their craft than the stars? This is because there are lots of talented people, on the one hand, and the qualities that make you a star are not all talent-related. Less and less so, these days.
I suspect there are thousands -- literally thousands -- of "beautiful, talented, funny women over 35" who'd like to play a supporting role in an HBO series.
I think the key point here is ...
... that the original post and comments like mine weren't strictly focused on Hung. The comment made by Collette Burson was the cue for a larger reflection of the place (or non-place) of talented, funny, beautiful actresses who are over 35-years-old. Burson's comment was indicative of a larger culture that renders these actresses invisible. Clara Jeffery's post and comments like mine were efforts to make sure the talented gals out there very much ARE visible-- making it easier for their counterparts (who, yes, are available and appropriate for the role Burson's casting) to be seen and recognized.
Critiques that the names thrown out are silly because they don't fit Burson's particular casting needs this particular show seems to be missing the point.
Nevertheless the push-back
Nevertheless the push-back here is justified. A discussion about the larger subject of ageism in Hollywood is absolutely one worth having, just not on Burson's back.
For goodness sake, the woman was doing the very thing the crabbier commenters here seem to be advocating -- hiring an over-35 actress. She noticed it was difficult. "Shame on her?"
At minimum you too are missing a point here.
You can keep your worthless crap
I think Ms Bursen should take a long look at the industry she works in, the audience she's targeting, and the messages she's helping to send...as should ALL film and TV execs. 90% of the films and programs being shoved at us from NY and CA are either crass, superficial garbage (that preach to us AND our children that self-indulgence and materialism are the way to go) or worthless remakes of perfectly good films and shows that can still stand on their own quite well, thank you very much. It's a money grab for people who already have enough money. It's a photo-op for yet another famewhore. Personally, I've reduced my movie-going to MAYBE one film/month and watch mainly British programming. At least there is something imaginative coming from across the Atlantic.
Beauty and talent
I wont blame Hollywood for being so cruel about pretty actresses, I would blame our superficial society that discriminate the ugly, the handicap and the overweight not to mention gays, minorities and the list goes on. So, be sure your child is beautiful and looks like a supermodel if you want her or him to be accepted in the social group.
comment to beauty and talent
"I wont blame Hollywood for being so cruel about pretty actresses, I would blame our superficial society that discriminate the ugly, the handicap and the overweight not to mention gays, minorities and the list goes on." Isn't that comment a bit of an oxymoron? Hollywood/the media IS the machine that has not only designed but is continuing to perpetuate the superficiality described.
Did anyone read what she had to say?
Did anyone read what Burson had to say before coming up with these lists of famous actresses? That she wasn't looking to hire CELEBRITIES. And isn't she hiring the over 35 demographic, unlike most in Hollywood? Is this the best Mother Jones can do when choosing a target?