Whilst it's none of my business how you bring up your kids I have to confess to reading The Chronicles of Narnia as a child and never realising the religious views of the author. I read the Dark Materials trilogy more recently and I was similarly unaware of the authors view of religion.
Are the Snopes the people who thought Harry Potter was anti religion?

Have you even read the books? There is nothing in The Golden Compass that can be construed as anti-religious (although I admit I haven't read the final book in the series, which includes the revolt against God), except by those who make it their business to be offended by anything not specifically approved by their church.

I appreciated this article very much. I am a devout Christian (a children's director) who believes in an inclusive church, far removed from the right-winged conservative Christians. I rely on Mother Jones for my news interpretation so I can't be too weird, right?

This review helped me take a reasonable approach (instead of an emotional one) to decide how to advise parents.

I too, a recovering Southern Baptist, who has only set foot in a Baptist church to sanctify my marriage (and only because the 87 year old grandmother thought it was "proper", otherwise it might as well have been in a barn). My point: I also read The Golden Compass (as well as the other two books in the trilogy) - and because when I pleasure read I often take things at face value (because in my real life, everything I read I must analyze and critique), I had no idea there was any death of good or encouragement to support this view at all. If it was not for my husband - who pointed this out (because I read the three books after he did) - I'd never have noticed! I sound like a real flake in admitting this but just REALLY ENJOYED a great read about a girl heroine (for a change!) who was having some amazing adventures. Since I have no kids, I don't know how I'd feel about taking them to see the film, but I can't wait to see The Golden Compass on the big screen when it is released. I just did not care so much for the other two Dark Material books (wandering, hard to picture). And to pick up on the Chronicles of Naria - loved them as a kid and as an adult, and to me the Aslyn = Christ connection was pretty obvious. Thanks.

I guess I'll have to see The Golden Compass twice (once for each eye) to help make up for the business it'll lose. Years ago -- would that I could remember the dictionary the definition was in -- I read a definition of "agnosticism" that fits me quite well: The doctrine that holds that creation and the creator are unknown and unknowable. I've never liked the wishy-washy street definition of agnostic as someone who just isn't quite sure one way or the other.
At any rate, may the Golden Compass always point true North!

It amazes me that people who purport to know the books still manage to pen an idiocy such as "The Chronical's of Narnia", Then: since the author, Philip Pullman, practically writes that he has a problem with "an existing God", why does he bother imagining a plot in which a senile God "is killed?" Just HOW can anyone kill something that does not exist? What a waste of time, effort and energy by a whole bunch of people arguing pros and cons on this immaterial premise, when all that hubris could better be directed at, oh, let's say, solving a REAL problem, a problem that affects ALL OF MANKIND, such as global warming?

All that is done here is simply add more much unneeded hot air.

I think instead, I will go see "A Christmas Carol" - after I see some disturbed flick ofthe same tenor as the "Golden Compaass" (let's hear the roar of protest now)such as, hm, let's see - the "Matrix?" Or some other non-??demonic movie.
And - oh yes: Bah, humbug.

Bah, Humbug is right; Xmas is lame and so was your post. A writer such as Pullman, regardless of his non-belief, writes FICTION novels. And if he gets inspired to write books that make fun of a fake god, then so be it. You certainly could not appreciate such talent coming from any Freethinker. As for the Matrix being demonic, pull your head out of your *ss, it's a movie for darn sake. Oh by the way, daVinci was a closet atheist himself.

god and religion are not innocent, temporary, fun little fantasies like tooth fairies or easter bunnies. and, that is why you should raise your kids with the truth and not allow them to be indoctrinated. wise up!

Religion is politics- that's all there is to it. You can just as easily swap Republican and Democrat with Catholic and Baptist. Trouble with a lot of religions is they get caught up in what they think their particular god is and isn't, will do or won't, and they forget that "god" is in how we live our lives. Dogma.
God or whatever invisible superior being or force may or may not exist, but the real issue is how we act while on earth. Jesus wasn't the only one to tell us to treat or fellow humans right. He wasn't the only one to tell us that "heaven" and God is within us. In fact, you don't even have to believe in a god to feel the satisfaction & connection to existence when you help someone in need.

This is a very well done article which goes right to the point. I was immunized as a child: it was the whole nine yards, Southern Baptist Sunday School, Sunday Service, Vacation Bible School. I chiefly remember that the church janitor had memorized the entire Bible. And I also remember pasting alphabet soup letters onto a piece of plywood painted to look like an open book -- we were listing all the books of the Bible, and some of that list even remains with me. But not much else. I got off lightly, and hope your kids do too. My wife is another story. She ran into a very bad crowd of evangelicals, who were really keen to push the fire and brimstone, and she still hates the sight of them. There were guitars involved as well, and happy clappy music, and it's spoiled folk music for her every since. What a shame.

The only thing I get from reading this article and the accompanying comments is that people with an inability to carefully and critically read good stories will miss out on some of Pullman's larger points. In my reading of the trilogy God and the angels are created by the emergence of human (or possibly any sentient) conscience. God is not in fact killed by Lyreal but instead dies accidentally and somewhat tragically as a forgotten afterthought (not of Pullman's but of those in the story responsible for his well-being). And, there is a war waged against the Angel that has taken God's mantel upon himself. The great battle portrayed in the final book in the end really results in recognizing that humanity is composed of good and evil, that people with the best of intentions can do evil and that people with evil/bad intentions may be capable of doing good - this is a very strong component in the humanist tradition. Additionally the final portion of the story addresses the emergence of girl and boy, somewhat innocent in the ways of the world, into full fledged creative, self-aware, and compassionate woman and man. Pullman is retelling the story of Eve and Adam in a way that should encourage children on the edge of young adulthood to fully explore who and what they may or can become.

A quote from a well known 19th century philosopher:
The meaning of our cheerfulness.— The greatest recent event—that "God is dead," that the belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable—is already beginning to cast its first shadows over Europe. For the few at least, whose eyes, the suspicion in whose eyes is strong and subtle enough for this spectacle, some suns seem to have set and some ancient and profound trust has been turned into doubt: to them our old world must appear daily more like evening, more mistrustful, stranger, "older." But in the main one may say: the event itself is far too great, too distant, too remote from the multitude's capacity for comprehension even for the tidings of it to be thought of as having arrived as yet; much less may one suppose that many people know as yet what this event really means—and how much must collapse now that this faith has been undermined because it was built upon this faith, propped up by it, grown into it: for example, the whole of our European morality. This long plenitude and sequence of breakdown, destruction, ruin, and cataclysm that is now impending: who could guess enough of it today to be compelled to play the teacher and advance proclaimer of this monstrous logic of terror, the prophet of a gloom and an eclipse of the sun whose like has probably never yet occurred on earth?.. Even we born guessers of riddles who are, as it were, waiting on the mountains, posted between today and tomorrow, stretched in the contradictions between today and tomorrow, we firstlings and premature births of the coming century, to whom the shadows that must soon envelop Europe really should have appeared by now: why is it that even we look forward to the approaching gloom without any real sense of involvement and above all without any worry or fear for ourselves? Are we perhaps still too much under the impression of the initial consequences of this event—and these initial consequences, the consequences for ourselves, are quite the opposite of what one might perhaps expect, not at all sad and gloomy but rather like a new and scarcely describable kind of light, relief, exhilaration, encouragement, dawn ... Indeed, we philosophers and "free spirits" feel, when we hear the news that the "old god is dead," as if a new dawn shone on us; our heart overflows with gratitude, amazement, premonitions, expectation,—at long last the horizon appears free to us again, even if it should not be bright; at long last our ships may venture out again, venture out to face any danger; all the daring of the lover of knowledge is permitted again; the sea, our sea, lies open again; perhaps there has never yet been such an "open sea”. (From Nietzsche’s The Gay Science)
That news hasn’t reached Washington yet—I mean the news that God is dead—which means it makes perfect sense for the leaders of our country to take a bite of Jesus’ body and chase it down with a drink of Jesus’ blood but by God don’t take a bong hit for Jesus—because here it is not even a Supreme Court question of doing it, it’s illegal to even suggest doing it. Of course God’s do not die as people do, they require a far longer period of time—I mean imagine the anguish in Ancient Greece when the Gods fell from grace and a sense of Godlessness descended upon the empire, Apollo having to give way to Dionysus or say a philosophical God created literally by contemplation and needed not for morality’s sake but purely for logical necessity, or what of Democritus the atomist and openly an atheist, but even for Greeks and Romans who knew many gods and understood the meaning of no god as well, new God’s can rise up and replace old ones; even the use of hedonistic thought like that of Plotinus could be rewritten and assimilated by Christian thinkers to replace the neo-platonic triad of Saturn, Jupiter and Uranus with something far simpler, like say Father Son and Holy Ghost or even among our beatniks as “Dadio, Ladio, spook” . Who knows what lies in store with our DNA conceptions of life(perhaps it’s not much more than a potential Astrology—“Mr. & Mrs. Smith we have our interpretation of your son’s DNA map and it looks like he’s destined for greatness”. . . . . ...and then the next day he’s run over and killed by a drunk driver or even better he dies of a stroke”, then again DNA could be so fanatical in usage that the entire hierarchy of society could fall within the domain of its probabilistic logic and the truth of its ability to forecast the well being of individuals accurate enough that when you received your gene map interpretations not long after conception that your entire future is in effect predetermined, or say our Hark, Hark, three Quarks for Muster Mark concept of the physical universe becoming reduced to a mere means to justify divine intervention—where the ‘quantum leap’ of indeterminacy is nothing more than Kierkegaard’s leap into the absurd (which is in essence faith), where the absurd itself is used as a means to prove the existence of god—that there is no causal connection between events is how God can intercede) As a species we are suckers for tales, and even what we call rational is not much more than irrationality that by means of collective possession wins the position of the dominant accepted story. That in part is the beauty of art; that it can show that what is rational or irrational are caught within an inexplicable absurd universe—that in a sense laughs at our hollow descriptions (it laughs because it cannot laugh, it cries because it cannot shed tears). That the world is absurd, that we are merely a temporal phenomenon here today and soon, all too very soon lost for all eternity as though we never existed doesn’t necessarily negate life and whether kids will go toe to toe with mom depends a great deal on mom going toe to toe with them.

If we were truly created by 'God', then 'God' must be the Earth. I have seen many people live without 'God'. I have yet to see one live without Earth.

How sad that your children are being deprived of a childhood filled with Christ's purpose, regardless of your experience. Perhaps your selfishness will be a wakeup call for those that use organized religion as an intermediary, and for those like you who are too short sighted to see the light for themselves.

John Barlett

SPOILER -- don't read this if you plan to read the books.

I'd just like to point out that the main character, Lyra, is a girl caught up in the intrigues surrounding her father's scheme to expose the (fictional) church's imposter god. She doesn't kill God in the books "so that everyone can do as they please" -- in fact, nobody kills God!

In the final battle scene, the corrupt angel that has been posing as God meets his doom in an accident; one could call it a death from old age. The imposter's death allows everyone access to a happy afterlife when they die.

This entire column seems to have been written by taking the message of an hysterical e-mail to heart, without researching its claims.

It's sad to see a secular individual trying to micro-manage and control the ideas her kids are exposed to.

Especially when it comes to a harmless, and possibly quite enjoyable, piece of fantasy.

Perhaps this author's own upbringing runs deeper than she realizes?

Thank you for your article, I have to say that I really enjoyed the reading.
I am an atheist and when I start to think about what I will tell my children about God, Allah, Buddha or whoever, I really do not know what I will do:
Neither my father nor my mother believe in God but my mother just told me, that she feels sorry about not telling me God exists. She thinks that believing in God helps you in rough times, and though I do not share this thought when I think of my life, all in all, she might be right.
When I started to read your article, I was upset about the 'christian fanatic' who will not allow her children to watch a movie about this wonderful story (you see, I really love 'his dark materials' and this story which doesn't tell the reader about black and white, good and evil like all the other books). But when I continued, I realized that it isn't as easy as I thought in the first moment. All in all, you are right to let your children make the choice when they are older and more experienced, if you can say so.
I 'lost' my faith when I was eight and as a consequence, I am neither baptized nor confirmed because I think it is pure hypocrisy to do something like that just because of the money.
But telling a little child that God does not exist, is like locking a door for it's mind because it might never find a way to God (not the church) back again. So here's the dilemma: influence the child by own thoughts or let it make it's choice later? I think nothing is wrong or right in this case.
But I am getting off the subject: All in all, your article is well written, but I have to admit that you seem to be a little too strict against this story. It is not God who does these horrible things to the children, but the church and if you would take a look at the whole picture, you would see that there is no difference to our world.
Though I do not believe in his existence, I doubt that God, if he would be real, wanted to torture and burn innocent women in giant fires in the medieval times or spread Aids around the world because he doesn't like condoms.
Really, I doubt that.

This morning, I read an interview of Philip Pullmann in 'der Spiegel', a german magazine.
There, he is asked about his book and his opinion of the church. He answers, that he neither dislikes the church nor God himself, but is an enemy of theocracy, which he tries to point out in his books.
I think this is the answer to this whole article, concerning the question if children should watch this movie or not, if Pullmann is against church and God or not.

I had a very real experience as a young agnostic while experimenting in the occult that left no doubt in my mind as to the existence of the supernatural. I became a "born again" Christian because I figured if there was a great evil there had to be a greater good. After years of searching the 1,000+ sects of the Christian religion I became disenchanted with how mankind has changed God's Word to suit their own lust for money and power. The news is rife with our spiritual leaders and their respective churches involvement in drugs, hookers and young boys as a direct result of power corrupting and absolute power corrupting absolutely. The very word "Christian" means Christ-like and was not even coined until later in the 1st Century and these hypocrites are as far from being Christlike as the Pharisis were from God in Christ's time. I also came to realize that Christ was a Jewish Rabbi who Himself said that he did not come to change God's Word, but to fulfill it.So if you want to be Christlike you'd be a good Jew who hangs out with hookers and tax collectors (the dregs of society, feeds the needy, comforts the grieving and heals the sick. All and all, there is nothing wrong with ANY of that and no matter what your beliefs it doesn't hurt to love one another. Christianity is for the most part Paul's religion and he has to be the greatest ad-man in history who put a lot of words in Jesus' mouth that Christ never uttered. I doubt that Christ Himself would recognize the vast majority of the churches that claim to be the one true church, and let us not ignore the fact that the three religions founded by the sons of Abraham; Judaism, Christianity and Islam have been responsible for more deaths of the innocent supposedly in the name of God than any plague in history and remains so to this day due to the misinterpretations of ruthless men to suit their agendas. I carry God's Word in my heart and teach my children to seek Him there, NOT in the misguided rhetoric of the door to door pitchmen with pamphlets denouncing Harry Potter as satanic to entice you to fill their coffers. If atheism is your gig fine but let kids make up their own minds and let them read both series of books, throw in Harry Potter and the Wizard of OZ then have them read the Bible; read the Torah and the Koran as well. There are common threads in the big three and ALL of them promote caring for one another, especially the indigent. Even an athiest should appreciate THAT in the name of humanity. I have learned that good and evil are in the hearts of the beholder and I believe good and evil have very real spiritual representation. I am not perfect but I try to refrain from outright hedonism; make an effort to follow God's basic tenents and not judge other's for their beliefs(OK. Maybe I mock Scientologists, but not out loud; I mean come on!)We founded this country on freedom of religion which includes freedom FROM region. I teach my children to seek God with an open mind and heart but to remember that a good portion of our founding fathers were Unitarian and on record as being against the nation being percieved as being founded on any religion for a reason. Read the Constitution. Believe what you like, but allow me my own beliefs. If you don't want your children to see a blasted movie, don't. But to try to make your kid's "mini-mes" stifles their opportunity to analyze issues unbiased and perhaps discover something that fulfills them even more than your personal ism.

I can't help to ask: what makes you say religion is a-rational? Who tells you (or us all for that matter) about religion, god and the whole thing? It's people, with their own interests, ambitions and organizations they belong to. The catholic church does a great job at seperating us from god. It seems that all those infidel burners believe that the ONE needs their help to get ONEs will done. I'd call that blasphemy. And yes, the written word. Compiled several hundreds of years ago, these are the words of humans. They tell us about eternaty in hell or heaven. Ah, well, the earth was flat back then. So the real decision you have to face goes further than god or no, its materialism or is there something else.
I've made my choice, no more questions.
Enjoy life either way,
marcus

I see people who dont believe in God talk about Karma. God is like that. Actions always have repercussions, good and bad.

Most of society's beliefs about bibical truth are not actually biblical. When Jesus talks about "hell", he talks about the garbage dump outside the city walls ("Gehenna"). He also talks about people being locked out of the party thrown by "the master" while the good and faithful servants are welcome inside. The hellfire and damnation sermons that many of us were raised with are not really based in biblical fact, unless you're looking strictly at the book of revelation (can you say "symbolism"?). Also, the idea that we're supposed to figure out anything during our lives is ridiculous. That's the purpose of faith and the reason for God's forgiveness. Expecting any human to understand God is the same as expecting an ant to understand the internet. Before anyone judges Christianity (for example) they should make the commitment to read the New Testament from cover to cover. If you want to judge Judaism, read the Torah cover to cover. Islam -- read the Quran. Read every bit of scripture you can get your hand on. Then decide what you believe. To decide not to believe without first doing the research is not only lazy, but potentially the greatest insult you could give to an omnipotent creator. If you're willing to take that risk rather than invest some time in reading, then I have to question your intelligence.

HOWEVER, shame on the person teaching your children beliefs that you don't hold.

I was raised as a Catholic, much to my surprise after grade school and going to a public high school I learned that is was indeed public and not protestant which I was raised to believe. After that one instance I questioned everything about my religion and sought out other religious ideals and thoughts and beliefs. Over and over I was amazed at the amount of brainwashing goes on to sustain religions amongst the children of its followers. My daughter asked my to get her baptized and I refused saying when she was an adult and could comprehend the idea of God we would discuss it. At 17 now she fully understands why I did not baptize her. Knowing what I was brought up to believe was falsehoods, lies, misdirection, the GOD gap etc. I don't see how this book or film would have a negative impact on any children after they are taught Armageddon, the End of Days, the slaughter of our supposed saviour, the sheer brutality of religious text? I could go on with the problem with religion and those parents who refuse to teach their children the atheism is an option. I am always going to be Catholic, even though I know what a fallacy all religion is, the brainwashing had a long term impact and will not repeat that same mistake upon my children. Jesus is slaughtered and yet we hear complaints that god is killed, doesn't anyone else see the irony of it? We christians teach gods only begotten son was murdered, and then people criticize a novel or book that kills god? We already have that book it is called the Bible.

Thanks for giving a rare voice to agnostics! It is so easy for the religious to criticize us in their holier than thou voices. It is much harder for us to stand up for our beliefs and our lack of beliefs! Keep up the good work.

Killing an imposter playing god is not the same as killing god...unless you're an aethist. (Sorry, bad joke)

Not that you're arguing this implicitly, but...humanity is rational? We may have created the idea, but, despite the enduring efforts of economists to argue otherwise, we seem to prove ourselves irrational on a fairly regular basis.

It strikes me as a dicey choice, equating god and the toothfairy. On one hand when he discovers that the toothfairy isn't real, god might go the same route. On the other hand, reinforcing the existence of god as having a direct hand in your son's life might have some real consequences down the road. Hard to say what, but good luck!

As to the reaction religion continually has against fictional works that brush upon ideas that they find threatening to their existence, might it not be seen as simply the acknowledgement of their own origins?

_The Golden Compass_ is literally the next book I intended to read. Because the movie is coming out, and I want to read the book first, to see the story with my own eyes before I see someone else's interpretation of it.

Your post was way out of left field for me. I had no idea there was this much at stake for some people. Doesn't change my plans a bit.

I was raised Unitarian. And I'm heartily glad. Because I was raised to think for myself, the adults around me expected it and gave me credit for being able to do so. They were (and are) always available to discuss things with me. Both sides often end up learning something by this. I remember, when I was less than ten, hearing that God was all around me. None of the adults stopped me when I was going around looking behind trees and benches for him. And none of them told me what to believe. Some told me what they thought, but also said that my view might be different. And that that was OK.

I, too, had a Jehovah's Witness friend from school attempt to convert me. It didn't work. I found the coloring books and the multiple choice teaching books to be so boring and limited in their worldview that I went straight to the Bible. And formed my own view.

I'm really sorry you believe that your child's mind is so fragile that you need to lie to them about such things as the tooth fairy and God. If it's good and true, the ideas will speak for themselves. And your kid will develop mental strength and an inquiring mind by being trusted with the task of forming their own opinions. I know I'd feel really betrayed when I found out that my parents were lying to me like that.

This is such a bizarre post. I've read only the first book of the trilogy, but it is an astonishing work of the imagination.
Debra Dickerson has invented a book -- one in which a recognizable Christian God is murdered in a way that would traumatize children -- and then criticized it.
Her criticisms hold for the book she has invented, but they have nothing to do with the Golden Compass. You could read the book in a state of of blissful theological ignorance -- or certainty--and be quite content.
Debra, what other books haven't you read that you'd like to write mini-essays about?

Oh - how silly of you - by forbidding children to see the movie, you'll make them REALLY want to see it.

Sure glad I'm not Debra Dickerson's kid.

the golden compass is not cool I can tell. But why does the maker hate GOD that stupid DORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God is real he is not false read the bible gen.1:1-rev.10:12.Hemadethe earth so don't hate him love him!!!!!!!

I'm going to heaven pray and you will to.

I don't know why you would hate God because our entire world is based on him.THINK ABOUT IT!!! The time line is based on his Beloved son Christ. You know B.C and A.D.
Just comes to show you how ignorant and stupid you are. May God have mercy on you.

Maybe it is why they now use BCE/CE, Before Common Era and Common Era. Someone came to their senses.

Keep up the good work Jacob! I'm proud of you and so is God.

This might help you with your arguement that "our entire world is based on him". Google the words "Golden Ratio" and read about it on some of the sites you find.

Sorry to interrupt, please continue. Once again, the ongoing discussion of the article, is to me, more intelligent and engaging than the original post.

I was just irritated to see someone picking on a kid!

God is alive and he can NOTTTTTTTTT DIE!!!!!!!! Sostop killing God in kids pray my frend pray please, go to church and God will live in you and I am a pre-teen. Try this for size!!!!!!!!!!!

I see people who don't believe in Karma talk about God. Karma is like that. Actions always have repercussions, good and bad. -- Heh.

"Why give them Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny but give them the straight skinny on God?"

Why lie to children about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, or God? I understand that lying to children is fun and useful, but it certainly isn't required, fun or useful. Personally beyond the non-understanding of the books and taking information from a spam as 'real' the most disturbing part of the article was that somebody went to the trouble of indoctrinating your child against your wishes. That's creepy... evil creepy.

The Tooth Fairy,Santa,and the Easter Bunny are fables God is not they are just some thing to tell kids for fun you are not lying.But,if you say God is not real then, you are lying like The Golden compass so don't lie. OK

lol. Tooth Fairy, Santa, etc. are all "inoculation" against religion. They teach young adults that not everything your told i true.

His Dark Materials are just very good children's books, better than Narnia. Yes their a response to Narnia but neither is an exercise in evangelism, nor will either infect your kids.

You just another paranoid pointlessly over protective American parent.

>>The Tooth Fairy,Santa,and the Easter Bunny are fables

They are untrue things told to children as if they are true.

>>God is not

How do you know? I daresay the evidence for Santa Claus is better and still a myth.

>>they are just some thing to tell kids for fun you are not lying.

Are they true? Do you know them to be false? Are you by definition telling your children something knowingly false in order to make them believe it? I don't see how lying to your children isn't lying if you have fun.

>>But,if you say God is not real then, you are lying

How so? If you suggest that other mythological figures aren't real or are real, either way you aren't lying. But, if you somehow suggest that this one isn't real you are lying. You apparently can only lie when you deny one mythological figure is real when it isn't real, and yet are not lying when you claim others are real when you know they aren't. -- You have some odd logic rattling around that head of yours.

>>lol. Tooth Fairy, Santa, etc. are all "inoculation" against religion. They teach young adults that not everything your told i true.

Apparently teaching children that you're a liar and other people might also be liars is a goal to be desired.

The Tooth fairy, Santa,ect. are not true but, God is true I wish you would listen.

I know God is true because in good times I walk with in bad he is caring me.

Romans 1:18-32 says it all.

I can't wait to go to heaven Bro. Joe can you.

romans3:23 says it all to.=)

I started to read your article, completely prepared to disagree with you. But when you said that your kids are 4 and 6, I suppose that is too early in their lives to grapple with the nonexistence of a god. Reviewers say that the 'god issue' is pretty much wiped out of the movie anyway, so I think you would have little to be concerned about. When my kids were 12 and 14, though, they didn't enjoy the Golden Compass; they said the plot was "too babyish". So if Pullman's books are actually for children instead of for adults who like fantasy novels, I suppose ages 9-10 might be more appropriate for children to read the Golden Compass. In general Hollywood sucks, and reading is far better than watching any old time.

loser

So is The movie so are you

f**k you

I dont recall finding the Golden Compass an anti religion book when I read it. And I have heard many times that Aslyn in Chronicles of Narnia portrays Christ, but I dont really see it. There have been hundreds of stories were the a hero / leader like person dies, and comes back to life. In fact, In Narnia, Aslyn chooses the spot to be sacrificed because of the magic within that particular pedestal which would bring him back to life. Jesus didnt pick a certain spot or cross because it had magical writing on it that would bring him back to life. I really dont see the connection unless you stretch the truth and insert your own beliefs into it. If that is what you want to do, then Lord of the Rings or any movie/book could be considered Christian , even the Golden Compass. What I can see , and its not fiction, is how organized religions use the believers as a way to assert the leaders personal wants and desires as a power over others.

Oh, and if Christian boycotts are suppose to harm the movie, I'd suggest looking at Harry Potter movies and books. It didnt make much of an impact on it.
I think Organized religion thinks they have more power than they do. And really, most today arent true believers and will do whatever they want.

the movie is fictional get over it!

The His Dark Materials trilogy is not Athiestic and it is not Agnostic. In the story, God most certainly exists.

And Jacob, are you also going to Santa's workshop at the North Pole? Because the evidence to support your believe that you are going to heaven is of the same caliber as the evidence that supports the idea that you're heading north to visit with Mrs. Claus and the toymaking elves.

My daughter, Kate, wrote this in a discussion group on FACEBOOK. She's 17.

Premise from some groups (teens) Boycott Movie because it will encourage young people to read the book series and turn against religion.

Per Kate:

"I read The Golden Compass and His Dark Materials when I was a little girl. I enjoyed reading them.
and no, they CERTAINLY did not turn me into an atheist.

People often underestimate children when it comes to books- and believe that they can't separate reality from fiction- Remember when people thought the Harry Potter books would turn kids into Satanists? All they did was turn kids into readers.

Anyone who thinks that His Dark Materials (series) is an attack on God probably hasn't read it. I don't think one can boycott anything until they know what it is- so I mean, you don't have to contribute to Phillip Pullman’s profit margin by actually buying the books, you could use the library. However, before you boycott the books-- you should read them.
(Think "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer") Read them, and THEN disagree with them, hate them, boycott them (but please don't burn them).

And I know a lot of people say, "I don’t have to read the books to know what they're about" but that isn't really true, because everyone interprets literature differently.

I think a book series whose main characters abandon faith and "kill God" in order to "do as they please" would be despicable. I very strongly believe "His Dark Materials" is NOT that book series.

And even if they WERE that book series, I wouldn't try to stop people from reading them- because faith is stronger than a movie or a children's book series. Nobody (not even a child) will read these books and stop believing in God. No one can "make" someone else stop believing in God.

I am not saying I agree with Phillip Pullman, or the movies, or anything. I am just saying that you can't accept that these books are wrong just because someone tells you they are. We have to think for ourselves. I am very much pro-thinking. And I am certainly pro-books.

We can't challenge something by hiding from it, by boycotting it- I mean, obviously, it's not the movie itself that people dislike, its the ideas behind it--
and you can't boycott an idea. In fact, boycotting an idea just makes it stronger, it gives it credibility. Which is the last thing this group wants, am I right? Does this group consider "His Dark Materials" to be a threat to the Bible?
Of course it isn't!

If these books are anti-religious? Well, then Phillip Pullman has the same rights as you or I have- the right to be wrong.

If we believe, and others don't, does this somehow lessen our faith, make it smaller?

I think not."

Have'nt we done this one before?

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright mourning hours, who ran to the marketplace, and cried incessantly, “I seek God! I seek God!”

“Whither is God”, he cried. “I shall tell you. We have killed him—you and I. All of us are his murderers. ….There has never been a greater deed; and whoever will be born after us—for the sake of this deed he will be part of a higher history than all history hitherto.”

Here the madman fell silent;

“I come too early,” he said then; “my time has not come yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering, it has not yet reached the ears of man.”

It has been related further that on that same day the madman entered divers churches and there sang his requiem aeternam deo. Led out and called to account, he is said to have replied each time, “What are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?”

from: “The Madman”
__Nietzsche

NO Jag I know he is not real but, God is so I'm not go to the north pole.!.

thanks a lot..

In my world, seeing or not seeing the Golden Compass was and is a non issue for me (and yes my kids). I hear it is a good myth anyhow (the movie) along with Narnia (from the god people). I hope we evolve to a point where being good does not need some myth. I have found that pure guilt (or fear of guilt) tends to push the being good (at least from my kids). Anyhow, the hoopla about the Golden Compass is somewhat old news anyhow. Anyhow, anyhow all these things have been going on for thousands of years. So, I guess we are stuck with the god thing. Debra, as a journalist you should go back and research this god thing that, yes, even the Greeks (and their philosophers) had to figure out. The net is that goodness is not dependent on god. It is the guilt of badness that causes god to pop out. Obviously, all this repeat offenders (the god people) do need a god. Otherwise, they could very well be running around doing some nasty crap. ahh, imagine a mind where god is a non issue. Nature just opens up and looks so wonderful!

As an atheist, I found the condescension towards religion too much. Atheists can appreciate and respect religious beliefs in others. I would say they ought to, if they want their own religious beliefs (atheism) to be respected as well. Faith is a fundamental right I would never deny anyone, even though I disagree and do not share their belief.

What I found explicitly offensive was not so much the anti-religious sentiment, because it wasn't that profound. It exists, sure, but not in any effective form.

What I found extremely distressing was the ending, wherein hundreds of "Russians" are slaughtered, as if that's a good thing. These "Russians" are cast as evil, and the very way they behave and speak their "evil" sounding language suggest to children a form of hatred. So, these Russians are slaughtered, decimated, and they all deserved it - that's the message.

Does not one of you find something WRONG with that?
Does not one of you have a problem with that?

That's the real indoctrination I objected to in this movie. There are hundreds of thousands of children who have been indoctrinated into thinking Russians are evil and it's heroic to kill them.

But of course, I imagine you have many rationalisations in your mind right now, defending this "kill the Russians" aspect of the film, you may even say it's quite warranted because Russians are pretty evil, etc..

Indoctrination, yes, very much indeed. The problem is, we're always truly blind to the doctrines.

discussing books or films you have not read or seen is strictly for school.do your homework before your next essay.

its common for reviews to be inaccurate e.g. reviews saying that happy feet was heavy handed about global warming

I saw the movie as a family endeavor and found it ugly in color, sound, effects, characters and story line tho I didn't notice any anti religious aspect. I confess I fell asleep so may have missed it, or because it was fantasy, of which I am not fond unless it's really good, I couldn't get that involved. Neither I noticed, did my 9 year old grand daughter get that involved in it. I consider all religions fantasy, duh. (Show me one iota of proof, ever) and the one true maxim is that creation is unknown and unknowable. Entertainment if it's well done can include a god or gods whether they get killed off or not, but in real life religion is anything but entertaining. It has caused more bodily harm, hate and separation, poverty, misery, wars and death by torture than any other one cause including instinctive territorialism, so no thanks - I would not and refused to let my kids be indoctrinated with such an evil concept and felt uncomfortable with Santa Claus, tbe tooth fairy, the easter bunny etc.as well, until they were old enough to know they were entertainment for little kids. Totally harmless though still lying. Religion is lying to the max
and should only be dumped on the feeble minded who can't
understand anything else, not combined with the other fairy tales of childhood as harmless, or defended or to brainwash or frighten helpless kids..
The blogger who was raised unitarian had the most honest and thougtful upbringing and claiming a religion probably deters some of the cruelty kids will practice at their parents direction to kids who are raised as honest atheists or agnostics. It's sort of normal for kids to believe in fantasy for the same reason lots of adults never outgrew it. Kids do not know better because they haven't yet learned things. Many adults do not know better because they are too stupid or too lazy to pick up a book. Religion in a nutshell.Opiate of the poor (and ignorant).