10 Ways to Trade Up
How Obama can fix the climate, raise billions for clean tech, and send you a fat check.
though it's not been mentioned much lately amid the sea of bailout headlines, the global economy isn't the only thing melting down right now. So are the polar ice caps. As nasa climatologist James Hansen has warned, we are nearing—if we haven't already passed—the tipping point at which the concentration of carbon in the atmosphere becomes so high that feedback loops will cause it to keep increasing on its own even if humans never emit another CO2 molecule again. To keep the planet habitable, he says, we must cut emissions not 10, not 20, but a full 80 percent by 2050; anything short of that will lead to "global cataclysm."
Fine then. We need to fix the climate, and we need to start yesterday. President Obama plainly understands this. His environmental rhetoric has focused mainly on things like wind farms and green jobs, but the backbone of his climate policy is actually an ambitious program that, if done right, will reduce greenhouse gases and raise desperately needed revenue—and, most important of all, has a fighting chance of making it through the congressional sausage factory in one piece. If he sticks to his guns, the idea will be a household term before the year is out. It's called cap and trade, and it springs from a simple yet surprisingly hard-to-answer question: What's the best, and fastest, way to reduce pollution?
When serious environmental regulation began in the late '60s, the default approach was "command and control," which is exactly what it sounds like. Take, for example, the Clean Air Act of 1970. It gave the government power to regulate six airborne pollutants, and the epa did this by setting firm limits on these pollutants. That's the command part. States then developed various mechanisms for meeting epa standards; one was to require companies to install "Best Available Control Technology" for reducing pollutants. That's the control part.
Command and control works: Back in the mid-'70s, Los Angeles, the smog capital of the country, suffered through 200 days per year of ozone levels above the federal standard. Today it has fewer than 100. But is there a better way? More to the point, is there a cheaper, more flexible way? Enter cap and trade, a concept that's been the go-to approach in environmental wonk circles for years.
The theory is straightforward. Suppose you have two plants, and the first one is able to eliminate one ton of pollutants at a cost of $10,000. The second plant, perhaps because it uses a different fuel or newer boiler technology, can do the same for only $4,000. Under command and control, if you required them to remove one ton each, the cost would total $14,000.
But what if all you mandated was that two tons of pollutants be removed overall (the cap part) and allowed the plants to work out how to do it? Naturally, the first plant would just pay the second plant $4,000 to remove an extra ton of pollutants from its emissions (the trade part). At first this seems suspect: The first plant is being allowed to merrily pollute away. But you've still removed two tons of pollutants, and since it was done more cheaply—for $8,000 instead of $14,000—you can afford to ratchet down the cap. You can require that three tons of pollutants be eliminated overall, and since this still costs only $12,000, everyone comes out ahead. The public gets cleaner air, and the plants save money.
Sounds great, you say, but does it work in practice? We found out in 1990, when the Clean Air Act was modified to address acid rain pollution caused by sulfur dioxide from coal-fired power plants. Instead of requiring every plant to install a specific cleanup technology or meet a specific emission rate, the epa simply set a nationwide cap on the total volume of SO2 emissions and required power plants to own a permit for each ton of SO2 they emitted. Each plant was allocated a certain number of permits, and if a plant reduced its emissions to the point where it didn't need all its permits, it could sell them to the highest bidder.
The results were better than anyone expected. According to figures collected by the Environmental Defense Fund, power plants regulated under the Clean Air Act didn't just meet the cap but ended up with about 20 percent lower emissions overall—at about one-third the cost estimated before the law's passage. Not all of that extra reduction was due to the trading option, but it's clear that the flexibility of the permits—and the chance to make money by selling them—motivated plants to cut emissions as much as possible, as cheaply as possible. (You can check out the emissions market for yourself, if you'd like, the same way you'd check an online broker to see how your stocks are doing. At press time, emissions-credit broker Evolution Markets listed a permit for a ton of SO2 at about $185.)
Carbon emissions, given that they are perhaps the defining feature of our economy, are a more daunting problem than SO2 ever was. No single proposal will solve the problem—not solar panels, wind farms, green buildings, better cars, new train lines, or new power plants. But if there's a single force that can help drive all the other innovations we need, it's putting a price on carbon emissions. That's the base on which we'll build everything else. And the way that price will be set, it now seems, is the stuff of an epic political battle that will begin this spring if Congress takes up a global warming bill. So as the rhetoric heats up, here are the 10 key things to keep in mind.
1. Price matters. Honest. The whole point of cap and trade is to raise the price of emitting carbon. If power plants have to buy a $100 permit for every ton of carbon they emit, the price of electricity will go up, and people will use less of it. Likewise, if refineries have to buy a permit for every ton of carbon their gasoline produces, the price of filling your tank goes up, and you end up driving less.
True, this effect sometimes takes a while. Gasoline prices in the United States more than doubled between 2002 and 2007, for example, and drivers barely responded. In economic lingo, the "elasticity" of gasoline consumption is low: It takes a big increase to make any kind of impact on people's driving habits. Nonetheless, it does work. Total miles driven started to flatten out in 2006 and finally dropped sharply last year, when a gallon of regular hit $4. (Interestingly, driving hasn't increased significantly since—economists blame the recession.)
What's more, price signals allow all of us to cut our carbon use in our own way, instead of being stuffed into a regulatory straitjacket. For example, driving and eating meat are both fairly carbon intensive. If the government requires everyone to cut back on their gas use and meat consumption equally, most of us will have something to be unhappy about: Maybe I really love my sirloin, and you're attached to your suv. But if instead it raises the price of carbon—an increase that will be reflected in the price of carbon-intensive goods—we'll each give up the thing we care about least simply because the cost has gone up. You might keep your Jeep and eat more tofu, while I'll keep eating steak but buy a Prius. And carbon is reduced just as much.
2. Yes, it's basically a tax. If you think that buying a $100 permit to emit a ton of carbon is pretty much the same thing as paying a tax of $100 per ton of carbon, you're right. And if you talk to economists, you'll find that most of them actually prefer a straight tax. It's simpler, more consistent, and more predictable. Dan Rosenblum of the Carbon Tax Center, which advocates a straight-up tax, calls that approach the "gold standard" and asks, "If you're going to have a tax, why not have the best possible tax?" Even some conservative economists, like Greg Mankiw, a former chairman of George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisors, support a carbon tax as a way of more accurately capturing the true economic cost of carbon emissions.
Cap-and-trade plans have a couple of specific disadvantages over taxes. They produce economic uncertainty because permits are sold on the open market and prices vary the same way stock prices do; that's a problem for companies trying to decide which technologies are worth investing in. As Rosenblum puts it, "If you don't know where prices are going to be in two or three years, you can't invest rationally." Moreover, international trade organizations have a lot of experience harmonizing taxes and tariffs, but they haven't been very good at setting quantitative rules for how much pollution should be allowed. And since the entire world eventually needs to agree on a set of carbon pricing tools, this matters. A lot.
So we had the Bush
So we had the Bush administration over-exploiting terrorist events to grow the state, reduce freedom, win elections, and now we have the Obama administration using the same fear-based tactics to assault what's left of our natural rights. Fascinating how fascism reinvents itself using different pretext. What's to be understood with government, is that anything wrapped up within the appropriate rhetorics and going after objects of popular hatred (corporations and islamo-fascist today, Jews yesterday, entrepreneurs always) can be implemented to the benefits of the state.
TO JCR: The Obama
TO JCR: The Obama Administration is NOT using fear-based tactics. Unlike the Bush Administration, where everything was based on secrecy and lies, the Obama Administration is simply stating the truth. And...what is a "natural right?" I'd say the only "natural right" anyone has is the right to live as long as "nature" intended.
cap and trade
Nobody believes James Hansen anymore except the kool aid drinkers. He is a whacko crank—probably mentally ill.
Wow
Where has this guy been? And could you please use current/accurate data on the polar regions? And what hubris: "we need to fix the climate"......if only mankind had that kind of influence....
Cap and trade is a hideous pyramid scheme to fleece EVERYONE...and at the same time exercise control over corporations and individuals.....hasn't mr.gore been shown to be the charlatan he is for this idea to be in the toilet where it belongs?
Cap and Trade
Kevin Drum. Listen to me. You have got toget some help. I don't what kind, maybe an intervention, but you have to do someting. This whole-Save the Planet-thing, has turned in to something akin, to believing in SANTA CLAUS. The so-called, Cap and Trade nonsence, has nothing to do with 'Greenhouse' anything. It's about MONEY. Lots and lots of MONEY. Ask Al Gore. I understand, that when he's not buying and selling Carbon Credits from HIMSELF, he's busy putting SUCKERS' MONEY in to his 'Environmental' HEDGE FUND. I understand that the Church of England-(soon to be, The MOSQUE of England)-has, recently, deposited the hefty sum of about $150 MILLION, in to Als' little Banky. You see...He NEEDS this money to stop GLOBAL COOLING. I mean, GLOBAL WARMING. I mean, GLOBAL CHANGE. Although, I don't understand why you'ld wanna STOP Global CHANGE? Isn't 'CHANGE' good? I thought the whole idea for voting for the IDIOT, was because he was gonna bring us CHANGE? NOW you're saying that change is a BAD THING? The point is, Kevvy, these High Preists are taking you, and your head in the clouds buddies, for a ride. Not a long ride, mind you. Just to the BANK. It's time to snap out of it. In case you haven't been paying attention...It's getting COLDER. Idiot.
an cooler heads prevailed
or in this case they didn't.
it's a downright shame that such emphatic oratory is not practiced more.
it's also a shame when such such obvious enthusiasm is predicated on such colorful language.
I think I understand the premise, but the evidence is lacking. The premise is scattered and confused at best. Evidence non-existent.
The problem with the written word is that it can be analyzed more effectively and repeatably. So when you proceed on your emphatic tirade without evidence then you loose your audience. When you refer to "The MOSQUE of England" any person with basic decency will be repelled by your obvious racism. And that looses your audience. If you are 15 or 16 or a religious extremist, then you have probably reached your "best" with this piece. If you are not, I recommend an analysis of your strategy and your message - because they are very weak.
It's the Math
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The breakdown of the greenhouse effect is as follows: 95% water vapor, 4.72% natural activities (volcanoes, decaying plants), and .28% human. The United States produces a quarter of the human contribution.
Considering we contribute .07% to the greenhouse effect, it would be quite a feat for us to "fix the climate."
Hmmm
Actually water vapor spends very little time in the atmosphere. It is a response to the real climate drivers -- CO2, methane, NO2, ... . Maybe you should visit www.realclimate.org.
On the other hand, I don't have much faith in cap & trade. It more or less assumes we are going to continue pursuing the globalized economy and the pointless consumption needed to sustain it.
Well, actually...
Actually I did visit realclimate.org. Once it became apparent they were interested in an agenda rather than the science, I stopped reading.
Funny how a 1% change in water vapor can mask the "real climate drivers".
"Once it became apparent they were interested in an agenda
than the science, I stopped reading."
Translation: Don' gimme no stinkin' facts!!
So the science doesn't fit with your ideology, and with you ideology trumps all. We already knew that about the science deniers out there.
thank you for your ignorance, please come again
ah yes, one of the climate change folks who don't think humans are contributing detrimentally to the planet.
I also liked "Once it became apparent they were interested in an agenda rather than the science, I stopped reading." Strong work. Instead of relying on even the pretense of evidence you just dismissed them.
Don't tell me - humans lived with dinosaurs also?
The problem with logical discourse is that it requires logic and actual discourse, neither of which you want to entertain. You treat anyone not like you or who doesn't think as you, as less than you. You MUST be correct and the other person MUST be wrong.
And you tagged your initial comment as a solution? Really?
You haven't solved anything - unless you consider looking the other way and ignoring the problem. Oh wait, you don't consider it a problem. But then how can you solve something you don't consider a problem?
You are either a genius, or something else. Something tells me you don't care what I think anyway.
Human Profiles Don't Settle Global Warming Issues
"Instead of relying on even the pretense of evidence you just dismissed them." I gave them a thorough reading as I did all sides to the issues. They, like you, never address how to "solve" what you call a problem that we control only .07% of.
"But then how can you solve something you don't consider a problem?" By pointing out that it isn't a problem. The earth is cooler now than it was a decade ago in spite of increased human-related carbon emissions.
"Don't tell me - humans lived with dinosaurs also?"
So much for your "logical discourse".
First you said you stopped reading
and then you try to backtrack and say you gave it a thorough reading. You need some truth therapy in the worst way.
cap and trade
Cap and trade is another perfect receipe for unintended consequences and corruption. Look at the details of the basis of the trades...the "saved carbon emissions" could qualify as poetry. Consider the competitive aspects of high energy costs on the economy...higher than our competition.
The straight carbon tax leaves us uncompetitive...but it satisfies the anti-carbon itch without so much thievery.
www.hedgehogparty.com
Try to keep up, OK?
Another nail in the coffin of the global-warming movement: a sensor used to measure the Arctic ice pack drifted out of position, and the result is that the current ice
pack had been UNDERestimated by an amount the size of California!
AGW is a fraud perpetrated by idiots who have no inkling of what real science is.
Science deniers can create lies
faster than bacteria multiply.
Get Real
I can't believe that you are still wasting resources with articles on global warming. (Oh, pardon me, climate change!) Hansen and his little buddy Al "Chicken Little" Gore have been thoroughly discredited by real scientists, using real data.
The only people who worry about the deadly poison carbon dioxide are politicians and brain-dead journalists. For heaven's sake, exery living animal on the planet exhales CO2! Most humans consume vast amounts of it in sodas, beer and baked goods every day. To claim that carbon dioxide is harmful to the environment is like saying that water is harmful, because it causes flooding and erosion.
I am sick to death of being whined at and lectured to by gullible idiots.
Lawrence E Jones
The wingnuts attack
Well, Kevin, I suspect that you've attracted the attention of a wingnut blog who have sent their astroturfies over. Maybe they think if the shout "global warming debunked -- Hanson mentally ill" loud enough they will actually sway public opinion.
No, NOT "thoroughly discredited" -- but I do see an upside to people like "Lawrence E Jones" because we'll be able to sell our low-lying waterfront property to them. And here we kids were worried that the family home on Tampa Bay becoming unsaleable when the old folks pass on. I'm truly hoping for a lot of these idiots putting their money where their mouths are to prove to us that sea levels aren't rising, too.
extraordinary...
... how many climate change denialist nutters are populating this comments field.
Had no idea these lunatics bothered with MoJo! Is someone paying them to come here? Why would they read it otherwise?
Adam
Do your homework
Name calling won't change the fact that "AGW", now referred to as "climate change" because the earth hasn't cooperated with the stupid models used by Al Gore's disciples, is baloney. I'm about 100% certain you haven't actually looked into the science, because I'm assuming you are smart enough that if you looked it over, you'd realize what a con-job the Al Gore crowd is trying to pull.
They're pulling the planetary equivalent of the kid who got caught with the stolen watch in his pocket, and who has to come up with ever more twisted and convoluted answers to a very basic question. How is anyone supposed to have any faith in this phony climate "science" when the hucksters selling it have gone to such extreme lengths to avoid admitting that they just don't know what the earth will do.
You want to talk about "deniers"? How about the denial of the MWP, and the phony "Aerosols" explanation of the cooling from 1945 to 1975, and the phony data from NASA, and the obsession with Arctic ice since it's been established that Antarctic ice is EXPANDING? How about the documented lies and exaggerations in Gore's "documentary" (what a joke!), and the predictions of this decade's temperatures (all wrong), and the warming on other planets in our Solar System? The list is long.
So people like you resort to name calling. That's really impressive. How about becoming familiar with the science instead??? It's a little more work, I know. But wouldn't you rather know what you're talking about???
Will you run and hide like so many other enviros, when your policy prescriptions impoverish millions more people, and kill many other, because it's based on junk science? Or will you do the unthinkable, for the enviros, and step forward to say "I was duped! I should have done my homework! I feel like a fool! But I'm worse than a fool, because my intellectual laziness actually KILLS!!!
I won't hold my breath waiting for that day. I only hope Al Gore's around when his "theory" has been thoroughly obliterated. Politician that he is, he'll find a way to claim he was with us all along.
Climate change.
Just one issue with your rant.
The sea ice in the Antarctica is expanding because, due to global warming, the glaciers on the Antarctic landmass are accelerating their movement into the sea, creating more sea ice, get it?
The rest of your rant is just as ignorant.
No it has not warmed and is
No it has not warmed and is not sliding into the sea. Antarctica is getting colder as a whole and at a very fast rate. Besides the poles do not matter it is the equitorial oceans that matter for they contain the most energy, and they are cooling. Go out and read something before you start spiting out koolaid. I am a farmer and have had to start growing shorter daylength corn due to the growing degree days comming down.
More Name Calling
I didn't say anything at all about "sea ice". The MASS of Antarctica is expanding. It's getting colder there, and it's snowing more. Another inconvenient truth.
And yet another is how you refer to my "rant" but you don't refute the facts that I have presented. I'm not ranting. I'm presenting. I notice your response contains one untruth and no other facts.
Very impressive. And you top off this display of critical thinking by calling me "ignorant". You may be right. I am ignorant, if by ignorant, we're referring to my inability to be deceived by Al Gore and the phony IPCC.
Phony data, disproven "science", lies and hidden agendas. That's what you are defending by your name calling.
You should be embarassed. It will take time. You will need to learn to discuss, and dump the name calling. That will require that you become acquainted with the facts. I know it's a lot of work, but after your recovery you will feel that it's been worth it.
It's pretty telling that you can't cite a single source for
this BS you're spewing...other than maybe some rightwingnut science-denying "source" which is, of course, also completely fact free.
And more name calling (no surprise).
I will continue to avoid jumping into the gutter of name calling with you.
FYI, this is not an essay, but a discussion. And frankly I don't need to cite sources because, as an example, NASA's "errors" were publicly admitted BY NASA!!! It would be like citing a source for the fact that today is Tuesday.
I notice that among your use of the words "spew" and "rightwingnut", you also cite no sources, nor to you even pretend to make statements of fact.
If the intellectual underpinnings of AGW are so strong, then why the name calling? You could just convince me with facts. You probably won't believe this, but I'm very concerned about the planet, and about pollution generally, but I don't find the IPCC or Al Gore very convincing. There is more govt money in AGW, and researching it, than Exxon, and others, could ever give to opponents, but you don't see any possibility that there's a feeding frenzy, and possibly an agenda at work?
It's puzzling. You are losing the debate, and yet you are absolutely convinced (based on the assertions of SOME scientists) that AGW is real. Why the need to demonize? If your case is so strong, present it!
Please explain the 1998 predictions (IPCC and others) that the next decade (this decade) would be even warmer. Doesn't it give you pause that their predictions are only now being, uh, revised. I would think you'd be concerned that they (many AGW believers) have now reversed course and, with straight faces, predict COOLING. And, of course, they have explanations that were conspicuously absent a decade ago WHEN THEY WERE WRONG!!!!
I'm sure you are an enquiring mind. Help me out here. You must be questioning the accuracy of the models. You know, the ones that predict 100 years from now, but which are, so far, inaccurate for 10 years. The same ones whose advocates now admit will be wrong for 10 more years. But we're told "Watch out, then in 2025, cause it's REALLY gonna get warm then. Many of these same experts, in 1989, were already screaming about a warming that was barely 10 years old. Now they say that the past 10 years of flat to cooling temps are "too short a time span to be relied upon. Interesting double standard, huh? CO2 is up 5% in the past 10 years, but temps are flat to down. That's not what the models and all the experts said was supposed to happen. How can you continue to buy it? Each turn of the thermometer sends the AGW crowd scrambling (in hindsight) for explanations to avoid discrediting the "theory" that they have presented as fact.
It makes me laugh.
I think it should make you laugh too. It makes me laugh that it apparently doesn't make YOU laugh. It makes you name-call and avoid discussion.
Where's your confidence?
By "homework" we can only conclude that this one
is referring to going to his favorite rightwing disinformation site online and swallowing whole the BS propaganda that it churns out by the rail car load and then take it out and disseminate it.
LOL
I'm still waiting for those of you obsessed with name calling and avoiding debate to step up, be adults, and show me how smart you are.
So far, all I've seen you do is personally attack people you don't even know.
It's really pathetic to see you set such a low standard of behavior for yourself. I'm starting to think you lack knowledge of the subject matter, because rather than put on display your command of climatology and give us a real informative post, you just accuse, and name-call, and avoid substance.
You wouldn't be so dismissive if you didn't thoroughly understand the science yourself, would you?
Would you?
Would you?
I'm waiting to be wowed!!!
You said it, Adam. Isn't
You said it, Adam.
Isn't there a middle school science teacher out there for you all to annoy with questions about how yo pa ain't no monkey? Get a fucking job.
You said it Adam
Seriously people. Isn't there a middle-school science teacher out there that you can annoy about how yo pa ain't no monkey? Get a job.
'Scuse me while I feed a troll
"Fascinating how fascism reinvents itself using different pretext."
Yeah, fascism = giving people a choice between using a market mechanism to decide how they want to contribute towards saving the planet, or paying more if they just don't feel like helping out.
Feel the jackboots.
Global Warming... Cap & Pay.
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I think the concept is garbage; Those who believe the Global Warming hoax are ignoring history.
I think the Global Warming believers should be forced to pay for this hogwash, and the rest of us left to use our money in a more productive manner.
A two-fer!!!
A display of ignorance about science AND history in this one. Keep 'em comin'. We're enjoying the fools' parade you and your fellow wingnuts are giving us today.
Nuts
This talk is nuts. We're headed for depression and you want to turn our energy infrastructure upside down on top of it?
10 ways to trade up
Where will the poorly educated public school graduates get jobs if the price of electricity goes up because of cap and trade and manufacturers send even more jobs to China which will not change its polluting ways?
Because my body is 60%
Because my body is 60% water, the laws of nature are reversed in there POLARity when scientists are on the take from the wealthy elite, you know, the elite who don't own the oil companies or the power plants or any of the major corporations or banks, just the media and their going to make alot of money off this system, believe me....this isn't a hoax...IT'S IN ALL CAPS SO YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT. Every AMERICAN should read this.
It's all pollution
Global warming aside, there are cities down here in the rural south I can hardly breathe in! I don't need a scientist to tell me we got air problems, I can smell 'em. Y'all need to get your heads out of the sand and try some of what used to be air for a change.
"You signed the papers. You wanted to be here!" -Drill Sgt. Leach, 1971
Ooops!
Did I just write "cities in the rural south?" Oh, man. Still, when I have to spend a day in Birmingham, takes me about three to get over it, and some spots that used to be in the sticks are about as bad. So put me down for anything that'll clean up this mess.
"You signed the papers. You wanted to be here!" -Drill Sgt. Leach, 1971
Need a better way to undo global warming
Kevin quotes Hansen, "To keep the planet habitable we must cut emissions not 10, not 20, but a full 80 percent by 2050; anything short of that will lead to 'global cataclysm.'" The world isn't going to make an 80% cut. In fact, with the increases that will come from China, India, and the rest of the developing world, man-made emissions will continue to increase, even if the US makes a cut. Furthermore, Hansen says we may have passed the point of no return, where even an 80% cut won't be enough.
It follows that we cannot successfully fight global warming by cutting emissions. We have to find some other means to cool the planet.
Furthermore, it's conceivable the planet is warming but emissions may not be primary cause. In that case, some alternative cooling process might save us, whereas cutting US emissions would be a waste.
David
Global warming - how conveeeeeeeeeeeeeenient
Global warming advocate’s most fundamental problem is that it is so conveeeeeeeenient a rationale for masking neosociialist ideological ambitions that anyone with any sense must question it even if there were irrefutable evidence, instead of mere computer projections based on self-serving design assumptions - which there isn’t.
It is simply all too convenient that the measures “necessary” to “save the planet” fit precisely with those necessary to advance neosocialism’s fondest ambitions. It is also no coincidence that many of the key ingredients of effective propaganda are employed – attaching an unpopular cause to a popular one to gain the effect of positive association, appeal to authority, emotional attachment to polar bears, etc.
I don’t know whether the data irrefutably supports planet saving measures or not, but I do know that the overwhelming majority of people, including scientists, who advocate draconian measures don’t know either and are just running their mouths in support out of herd instinct rather than reason based on facts.
I have looked in vain for any “save the planet” measure that would seriously mitigate against the neosocialist agenda. Until I find one, I will remain on the side of the nay-sayers whether they are right or not.
MAN MADE WARMING
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MORNS, WE DON'T NEED CAP AND TRADE AS THERE IS NO MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING. THE EARTH HAS BEEN COOLING FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS.
Another one
who thinks all-caps somehow will somehow win the argument. All it does it reinforce the desperation and ignorance of the ones who resort to this silly, childish practice.
My goodness. Kevin, I'm
My goodness. Kevin, I'm glad the people who commented on this article don't work for NOAA. Although I sort of get a kick imagining how if they did, whatever remains of AIG would try to price "100 year" flood insurance (you know, those things which are happening every 5-10 years in lots of places.)
One thing they are right about is that there is a smörgåsbord of mitigation techniques, and we need to choose wisely. Missing from that graph linked is the fact that wind power is the only form of direct mitigation -- unlike solar power, for example, wind turbines remove energy directly from the atmosphere.
"...wind turbines remove
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"...wind turbines remove energy directly from the atmosphere."
Baloney. They merely convert that energy into another form that (unless it's sent to the moon or deep into the earth) appears someplace else but sufficiently close to constitute a non-issue . In this "closed system" the energy differential is zero and the sum total is preserved.
In other words, your statement is false.
Any engineer/scientist that thought about it would understand.
CSS/HTML Note: There's no
CSS/HTML Note: There's no indication on my Firefox for Microsoft Vista that "don't work for NOAA" and "a smörgåsbord of mitigation techniques, and we need to choose wisely" in my previous post are both hyperlinked.
Scientific illiteracy
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"We need to fix the climate, and we need to start yesterday."
Global warming -- lately called "climate change", is the liberal equivalent of "creation science" for the bible thumpers.
If someone feels so strongly that we must do "something", then plant a tree, pray to your deity, pat yourself on the back but keep your hands off my wallet.
Helping the environment begins when you do it with your money, your time and your effort, not using the government to force me to comply with your pipe dreams and fantasies.
It's hard to know where to start with this dinosaur
Not only denies the science but thinks that all we should have is a voluntary effort by individuals. Does this clown believe we can all just do as we please. Would he apply this to the gov. building roads or creating a military for defense? "Well, if a person wants a road, he should build it with his own money (and I'll be glad to use it free of charge)." No doubt he thinks of himself as some sort of John Galt character. Trouble is with those John Galts: when things go wrong they're the first ones to demand that someone come in a bail them out. The banking and finance cartel in this country is full of John Galt wannabes until they f*** things up so bad they have to beg for a rescue.
Alternately; one could
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Alternately; one could simply build enough nuclear power stations to handle the US electrical needs. By building several hundred identical plants, you could sufficiently have an economy of a profitable scale. This would decrease CO2 emissions, and be profitable in the long run.
But, without a strong movement to nuclear power, we can be assured of one thing: The world will burn every barrel of oil that can be extracted.
The world will burn coal for decades to come.
That said; d'you know that there's an underground coal deposit in china that produces as much CO2 emissions as all the cars and trucks in the US every year?
Consider that.
With world forces like this? Cap and trade is a laughable attempt at reducing CO2 output.
If the environmental movement as a whole want to succeed, they need to ditch the "We can conserve our way out" theme. It's not going to work. Go ahead; reduce your carbon footprint. Make it so by the time you die, you have had no effect. Lovely sentiment. But the world will not be following in your footsteps.
India and China grow, steadily. More and more people. More and more energy per person.
If the US won't develop an effective way to CO2 free energy for ourselves, then I highly doubt the chinese adopting an eco-friendly way in lieu of us.
Build some Nuke plants. Seriously. Heck, maybe you could build enough wind farms for the people of today. But can you imagine the demand by 2050?
We need to be realistic. Wind power shows, time and again, that it addresses a nitch market. We need a technology that can run the whole economy.
The NIMBY contingent weighs in
Calling for a couple hundred nukes for the country but you can be damn sure they wouldn't allow one to be built with 50 miles of where they live.
Cap vs Tax
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tagged as:
- solution
The tax is better. The major environmentalist worry is that some of us claim that "the cap ensures emission, which is more important than stable prices". But I feel that this argument is wrong. Changes to emission rates happen very slowly. If we implemented a tax, and it was insufficient to meet our emission targets, we would see it coming years in advance and implement built-in triggers that would raise the tax, or lower it if we were ahead of schedule. For example, the tax could be based around biannual targets. Every other year, we could evaluate whether we were on, above, or below target, as well as look at what is currently being built, and tweak the tax up or down as necessary to put us back on target. There is no reason to believe, from an environmentalists point-of-view, that we couldn't be very close to the targets using a tax.
Additionally, getting the tax wrong by a few dollars a ton either way really won't have a significant economic impact. Wildly spiking prices for permits due to mis-calculations concerning the cap and how much everyone thinks everyone else will emit, however, could cause serious short-term turmoil.
The tax is more transparent (ok, maybe this is a bad thing in politics), easier to implement, and easier to harmonize internationally.
Global Warming
Apparently the author of this article has missed where a technical glitch has caused arctic ice to be underestimated by a size aproximating the state of California this winter. Hansen's credibility is not worth much anymore since Soros had to release his non-profit returns showing how much money he has been paying Hansen to parrot what he wants to hear (almost a million bucks.....and he is a federal employee isn't there something illegal about that?). Also, Hansen's agency is the one that keeps "screwing up" the temperature data that says we have never been hotter until internet people find the mistake and get it corrected. The result? We have actually been cooling since 1993 on a global scale.





























