Veg-O-Might
Do you need to eat meat to get ripped?
UPDATE: Join us for an expert-led reader forum April 13-17 on MotherJones.com around the question: Is organic and local so 2008?
the natural olympia is one of the pharmaceutical-free-bodybuilding circuit's premier contests, and even without steroids, its competitors look less like men than ideas of men as imagined by comic book artists—with rough-hewn backs and abdomens like stamped iron panels. As the annual event gets under way in a ballroom at an airport hotel outside San Francisco, gaggles of these impossibly beefy men strip down to Speedos and skimpy "posing trunks" backstage. They lather themselves with Dream Tan, their skin colors gradually homogenizing into a slim range of black and bronze. They line up in front of mirrors and rehearse their poses. From time to time, someone takes a pull of beef jerky.
Kenneth Williams sits in the audience, waiting for his turn to preen. The 41-year-old is irrepressibly handsome, with a mayoral smile, shaved head, and tiny triangular tattoo under his left eye. At 6 feet, 190 pounds, he's "still in the baby stage"; he hopes to gain another 25 pounds. After a four-year hiatus from bodybuilding, he's spent the last seven months resculpting his musculature—all on a diet of fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts, legumes, and lots of soy protein.
In a feat that he claims "shocked the world," Williams placed third in the novice division of the Natural Olympia in 2004, becoming a major figure in the exceedingly minor subculture of vegan bodybuilding. So far, just a few vegans have infiltrated the elite levels of professional sports, such as Kansas City Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez, the former Atlanta Hawks guard Salim Stoudamire, and Ultimate Fighting Championship bruiser Mac Danzig. Williams is on a mission to inflate his body into a bulging rejoinder to the myth that you can't build muscle on a plant-based diet. "If you think of a vegan," he says, "you think of someone who is skinny and frail, who has issues. A tree hugger. Smells funny. I'm putting the breath of life back into people. I'm out to save lives."
Williams is also out for fame—huge, ridiculous fame, and all the money and influence that come with athletic stardom. "The legend of Kenneth Williams" is not a phrase he is uncomfortable using. It's only a matter of time, Williams believes, before big companies realize what a "conscious athlete" can do for their brand. "This is what I want: $10 million with $2 million cash in hand," Williams told me a few days before the Natural Olympia. "Imagine 'Nike Natural.' When Nike gives me a deal, I'll outsell Michael Jordan." Then he pitched me his ideas for hybrid car commercials.
When the "Open Men Tall" class is announced, Williams and 11 other competitors file onto the stage, toe a yellow line, and follow a monotonous cycle of commands: "Quarter turn to the right...Abdominals with one leg extended...Lat spread...Face front." Bodybuilding is about exhibiting muscles, not using them. Thus the 20-minute series of poses that isolate parts of the anatomy while a long table of judges, like usda inspectors, silently grade the meat in front of them.
Williams, far stage right, transitions fluidly between poses, almost tai chi-like. He is impressively chiseled, but it's impossible not to notice that he's dramatically smaller and less defined than nearly everyone else. When a Briton with angel-white hair assumes the signature "pump you up" pose, called "crab most muscular," it looks like he's wearing a rubber strongman suit. Williams, like many bodybuilders, says he doesn't know his own measurements, but it looks like his chest is a good 12 inches smaller than the 50-inch ones around him. He is fit, yes. But the former arena football player and firefighter looks like a mere underwear model among titans.
There's a certain Neolithic simplicity to building muscle by devouring the muscle of another living thing. For example, Dexter "The Blade" Jackson, last year's Mr. Olympia and a three-time Arnold Classic champion, routinely bookends a day of steak and chicken eating with 10 egg whites. ("My metabolism is very special," he notes.) Meat is such an obvious delivery device for protein that bodybuilders often use the two words interchangeably. When I tell Jackson that I am writing about a vegan bodybuilder, he is incredulous: "There's no way you'd be a pro bodybuilder without meat. I've never heard of anyone who doesn't eat protein."
"I can't think of any reason why muscle can't be built on a vegan diet," says nutrition professor Marion Nestle, the author of What to Eat. Going vegan, she explains, should have no effect on the performance of normal athletes, provided they eat a balanced diet. But bodybuilders' diets are anything but balanced: When they're bulking up, they may consume between 1.5 and 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day. That's a ridiculous amount, Nestle says, about twice what's recommended for strength-training athletes and enough to cause chronic kidney problems. And because plant-based sources of protein are generally far less concentrated than animal sources, a vegan muscleman must eat even more food (or protein powder) than a carnivore. Nestle says the thought of protein-pounding bodybuilders, vegan or not, "makes me want to throw up just to think about it."
it was at 3 a.m. five years ago that, while fixing a middle-of-the-night meal, Williams "had the awakening." "I had two pieces of fried chicken, rice, and salad," he recalls. For some reason, he couldn't stop glaring at the chicken. "I was thinking about all the killing and the destruction going on in the world. And I looked down at that chicken and said, 'I'm eating death, and I don't even know why.'" He scraped the meat off his plate and went back to sleep a changed man.
He had never heard the word "vegan" before. All he knew was, "The spirit told me, 'Nothing from an animal. You don't eat nothing from an animal until you find out what's going on.'" He entered the 2004 Natural Olympia to prove a point to his meat-loving gym buddies, "not knowing," as he puts it, "that the stardom was just around the corner."
Elliot Katz, president of the Bay Area-based animal rights group In Defense of Animals (ida), heard about Williams' feat and started going to local gyms, asking if anyone knew the vegan bodybuilder. One gargantuan fellow, Katz remembers, told him, "There's no such thing."
Katz eventually found Williams and made him the poster boy for a campaign with the catchphrase "Go Vegan and No Body Gets Hurt." Pictures of Williams balancing a yellow chick on his deltoid or hoisting a massive wicker cornucopia of fruits and vegetables appeared on billboards and in vegetarian magazines. He went to animal rights conventions and hosted 52 episodes of Undercover TV, which featured footage of animal abuse inside factory farms, rodeos, and zoos. After a four-year break from competition, early last year, he realized the best way to continue his vegan evangelism. "The universe said, 'Ken, it's time to get back into bodybuilding.'"
We popped into ida's Marin County offices, where Williams wanted me to meet Katz, whom he now considers a mentor. (After some catching up, Williams helped put a heavy wooden desk back against the wall; a couple of employees had dragged it out to rescue a potato bug.) Katz told me he sees Williams as the clearest contradiction to the assumption that "if you're a vegan, you're just this weakling kind of a thing."
Williams generally eats between 210 and 250 grams of protein a day—what you'd find in about 2.5 pounds of lean top sirloin. He eats six or seven meals daily, and a few mornings before the Olympia, I watched him prepare his second breakfast. He made a shake: water, 50 grams of soy protein, and three supplement powders made by HealthForce Nutritionals, his sponsor. The drink looked like pesto and tasted like a forest floor, but Williams seemed to genuinely enjoy it. He has three of these a day, supplementing a diet of tofu, red and black beans, nuts, lentils, and leafy greens like kale.
Bodybuilders generally spend three to four months "cutting up" before a competition—having blown up muscle, they now whittle away everything else. In the week before a show, this sculpting process intensifies, as they reduce their sodium intake and gradually cut back on water. "You're trying to drain out all the excess water and get paper-thin and dry," explains Williams, who took an herbal diuretic for two days before the Natural Olympia. In pursuit of the perfect body, the vegan bodybuilder, like all bodybuilders, subjects himself to indignities not unlike those visited on industrial cattle.
Which only highlights the irony of Williams' quest to cure what he calls our "eating psychosis." As we talk about adopting a more sustainable diet, should we see a guy who eats four times his share of protein as a role model, or the equivalent of a biofuel-powered Hummer?
finally, after a judge dismisses the contestants, Williams shakes out his hands and arms, claps enthusiastically a few times, and exits. As he turns, a large tattoo of the ida logo—the silhouettes of a dog, cat, and rabbit—comes into view on his upper left arm.
He knows immediately that he hasn't won anything—he will, in fact, finish 12th out of 12. "I've done everything the universe told me to," he says backstage. He heads into the ballroom to watch the top class of marquee competitors and support his friend—a tanklike Nigerian in a green velvet G-string named Moses Ajala.
Williams whispers to me that he hopes to qualify for this elite class in two years. He's determined to keep eating "what the gods and goddesses put on Earth for us to eat," bulk up to 215 pounds, and win the whole thing. "I want to come in big," he says.
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no, you don't need meat to get ripped
I think it's great that you're giving some press to vegan bodybuilders (even if this guy is a bit weird, what with the "universe" talking to him and all), but I don't think you really answered the question that is the frame and subtitle for this article: Do you need to eat meat to get ripped? You don't really answer the question, but I think the answer is definitely no, we don't. You rightly point out that it takes a certain uninformed worldview to use protein and meat interchangeably, but you make a similarly unfounded statement (in the form of a question, a la Fox News) when you ask "As we talk about adopting a more sustainable diet, should we see a guy who eats four times his share of protein as a role model, or the equivalent of a biofuel-powered Hummer?" It's not just the raw amount of protein/food that a person eats that matters. It's the source of that protein/food, how much energy went into growing/transporting it, what other types of land use its raising displaces or preempts. A vegan eating "four times his share of protein" has a less land- and energy-intensive diet than an 80 pound carnivorous schoolgirl. And you focus on why he's smaller than the other bodybuilders and you seem to implicitly say that it's because of his diet. But, based on the figures you've provided, he's eating 2.62 - 3.11 grams of protein per kilogram lean body weight per day (I was charitable and assumed that he was 7% body fat). As the nutritionist points out, this is a ridiculous amount of protein to eat. In fact, the most recent studies in exercise physiology have shown that even the most ripped bodybuilders following the most extreme exercise regimens have never been shown to be able to utilize more than 2.2 g/kg. The body just can't utilize more that that. So, from the perspective of what the body can actually utilize, he's getting as much protein as all of the other guys, so his diet is not the reason. What the reason is, I can only speculate, but you can rule out protein intake. Plus, anyone who knows anything about gaining muscle knows that you can eat all the protein you want, but if you're not working out, you're not gaining muscle. If all you had to do to get big was munch protein bars and Big Macs... well... everyone in first world countries (almost all of who get more protein that they need) would be ripped.
So, props for covering a story that doesn't get much mainstream press, but I don't think you did enough research on nutrition.
the fact remains that
the fact remains that venison is high protein, low fat. (Also, numerous studies, some carried out by the Nat'l Park service have shown repeatedly for decades that hunting maintains healthy population of animals that aren't already endangered.) Another great meat to eat for the high protein/low fat content is kangaroo, which would have a great shock value in North America, but down under is similar to deer hunting here. (Though Kangaroos are far more dangerous than deer.) I for one, believe that vegans can be just as healthy as people that still eat meat - nutrients are nutrients, regardless of source.
This guy is far from weird
This guy is far from weird as have had the privileged of spending time with him. What a terrible assumption/ comment coming from an MJ reader. If we all did a little less judging and assuming, the rest of the world might pick up on it.
Ripped
'Ripped' is different then toned. It requires different fuel and different training.
In the natural world, veg animals have higher endurance, to help them run away from predators, even packs of predators. Thus, a normal vegan diet (which is short on protein), nonetheless provides very adequate fuel for conditioning and toning of muscles for endurance. That is what most people would be best advised to aim towards, as it is ultimately the endurance of organs which provides the best overall life-span. But some people are more motivated by the endurance of their orgasms then that of their organs. Excessive muscularity provides men (and some women) with the body-image they need to get jumped by the 'right' sorts of people. I have nothing against them. I just think the whole question is a bit silly (and intrinsically inorganic).
PS> Protein is basically protein. A few amino acids are difficult (not impossible) to acquire without animal sources. A 1-hour briefing provides all the necessary info to locate as much veg. protein as anyone needs to compete with any other body-builder.
Respectfully submitted~
Flex THIS
Take a minute to talk about bodybuilding, all by itself, nevermind how people got 'ripped' or whatever, and talk about the other use for your muscles, namely, 'work'. Nobody likes to work, that's for undocumented mexicans or something, right? Well, no. 'Back in the day', you worked your biceps and triceps and abdominal muscles and hip flexors and what haveyou shoveling out the barn, nailing boards together, and women did the same stuff, and people weren't standing around admiring themselves in the practically nude in front of cameras and so forth. But, as the recession winds on, chances are people will have less time for beauty pageants, and be more engaged in down-to-earth pursuits like supporting themselves through 'work'. Poverty IS ugly, and chances are, more people will be getting a chance to experience it for themselves, and that won't leave a lot of money for nutrition supplements and stuff like that.
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a vegan diet is NOT short on protein
Trollstein said "Thus, a normal vegan diet (which is short on protein)"
Vegan diets are NOT short on protein... period. Most adult males do not need more than 50 grams of protein per day and this is not at all hard to achieve on a vegan diet. I do it every day and it does not take any special planning or vigilance. It just happens when I eat enough calories. It's really that simple. Vegans that are into bodybuilding and endurance sports like marathon running may need to be a little more vigilant about protein, but as the math I did above illustrates, there is no reason that all the required protein can't be provided through plant sources. Mr. Williams is eating 2.62 - 3.11 grams of protein per kilogram lean body weight per day, more than even a bodybuilder's body can actually utilize.
Trollstein said "Protein is basically protein. A few amino acids are difficult (not impossible) to acquire without animal sources."
Difficult? Not really. Lysine is the amino acid most likely to be the limiting amino acids for vegans, and all legumes have it in abundance. It you can manage to eat some peas, beans, lentils or peanuts every day, you're fine. Unless the rest of you calories are coming from sugar, you're also getting enough of the sulfur-containing amino acids (methionine + cysteine).
I used to think that vegans had to really worry about protein and try hard to get it. If you look into the matter, you'll see that this is not the case. True protein deficiency (kwashiorkor) is virtually unheard of in the first world, including vegans. Getting enough protein is really, honestly, truly not an issue. Anyone who says different doesn't know what they're talking about (and the lack of specificity in what they say will illustrate this nicely).
So the next time someone tells you that a vegan or vegetarian diet does not provide enough protein, ask that person how much protein they need in a day. Nine times out of ten, they will have absolutely no idea. Shows what they know.
Vegetarian Bodybuilding
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One of the main 'bibles' of modern bodybuilding is Clarence Bass' Ripped series. He won the 1978 and 1979 Over 40 class of Mr. America and Mr. USA (precursors to the Olympia) eating peanut butter sandwiches and very little if any meat; he was and is primarily a lacto-ovo vegetarian. 'Nuff said.
Veg Bodybuilding
I think this was a great story to post. I am a powerlifter, and vegan and female - a combination that is pretty much unheard of in the strength and muscle world. I got harassed consistently by the carnivorous men in my gym until I set state records. I make better gains all the other women in my weight class and eat completely differently, and have developed a "bodybuilder" figure while actually trying NOT to.
Meat does not equal strength or muscle mass, protein is protein - unless your steak is full of growth hormones, then that might be another story. I'd like to see the sport change their position on diet in general and stop touting a meat-and-dairy only diet because it is not the only way to do it.
One thing I do not agree with though, is the sheer amount of food these guys eat. I am pretty sure they could get away with 20% less and still make huge strength and size gains. The body can only absorb so much protein, even when under that kind of stress, and on my 2000 calorie, 120 g protein/day diet, I make do.
LINK: LINK: If this vegan
LINK: LINK: If this vegan shaved - we would have a new Mr Universe right there.
LINK: If this vegan shaved -
LINK: If this vegan shaved - we would have a new Mr Universe right there.
V Bodybuilder
It's wonderful that the word is getting out a bit more on bodybuilding in general. Let alone a vegan or vegetarian one at that. It answered a very important question in this post too, that you don't particularly need meat to grow that big. Protein is just where it's at. Whether that's from meat or, soy, nuts, etc.
- Julie, consultant for Credit Report
Not sustainable
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I'm not impressed.
He didn't do it on a sustainable diet.
What is the point.
So you have to ship all those neato foods long distances, high carbon footprint, not locally available, can't sustain it in the brutal weather of winter in northern climes.
Eat meat.
What is really amazing is all this work they go to yet they are doing nothing. Nothing is achieved. Sad.
Not sustainable?
Vegan diets are much more sustainable than meat/dairy diets! Where are you getting this silly information? The United Nations FAO put out a report entitled "Livestock's Long Shadow" in which it documented how the livestock industry is the number 1 cause of global warming and a huge environmental polluter in many ways.
To be fair, local food is always better, but 1) most meat is not local, and 2) if we recognize animals as organisms with their own interests in avoiding pain, being with their families, and possessing the most basic desire forfreedom, we cannot ethically enslave and eat them!
I agree that for most of us
I agree that for most of us it doesn't matter, but all protein is not created equally in terms of bio-availability to our bodies. Just like the calcium in a glass of milk is more easily absorbed than that from a bunch of spinach, vegetable protein is not as accessible as animal protein.
Secondly, it is surprising to me that powerlifters, bodybuilders or other athletes would ingest large quantities of soy given that soy can reduce testosterone and soy estrogens can mimic our own natural estrogen in the body to have feminizing effects.
I would sure like to know
I would sure like to know more about this vegan bodybuilder, until not so long ago I thought this can't be possible. Any chances for us to take a look on his diet?
When the "Open Men Tall"
When the "Open Men Tall" class is announced, Williams and 11 other competitors file onto the stage, toe a yellow line, and follow a monotonous cycle of commands: "Quarter turn to the right...Abdominals with one leg extended...Lat spread...Face front." Bodybuilding is about exhibiting muscles, not using them. Thus the 20-minute series of poses that isolate parts of the anatomy while a long table of judges, like usda inspectors, silently grade the meat in front of them. Oh really? Thanks for letting us know. Mike from grow taller 4 idiots review guide.
Who are all the biggest animals & what do they eat?
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Great article and comments!
But to all those people who have been brainwashed into thinking that they must eat meat (and dairy for calcium) for protein and iron I pose this question:
Who are all the biggest and strongest (land)(and sea?) animals on Earth and what do they eat?
Elephants, giraffes, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, buffalo, bison, yaks, cattle, camels, horses, mountain gorillas etc.
And what do they eat: RAW VEGAN FOOD!
The largest meat-eaters are probably bears and are they (except Polar Bears) not omnivorous and actually eat a large proportion of vegetable food?
So the largest carnivores are probably Polar Bears, lions and tigers.
And yes, they are big strong animals, but compared to elephants?
(And interestingly, according to interpretation of fossil records the large herbivorous dinosaurs were by far larger than the carnivores.)
So what do we need to eat to get enough protein (and calcium, iron, B12 etc)?
P.S: Universe Talking!
I understand what Kenneth Williams is referring to as I also "listen to the universe" although I usually refer to it as listening to "Life" or "Love" or "Incandescence."
This may seem weird to someone who has not yet developed this ability that we all have.
But, may be one day, one moment...
bodybuilding
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Shipping and such
[So you have to ship all those neato foods long distances, high carbon footprint, not locally available, can't sustain it in the brutal weather of winter in northern climes.
Eat meat.]
Meat specifically, even if local, usually have a larger carbon footprint than any dry-goods type vegan foodstuff, even when counting in the transportation from australia to northern Saskatchewan or whatever (food usually travels rather efficiently, it's how the shopper gets to the store that tend to matter more). Milk fares a bit better, and eggs too. The fact is that most meat animals, also ruminants, are usually fed large amounts of imported feedstuffs, especially soy, in the northern areas of the world. Even when grass-fed, your local beef wouldn't be much better than imported legumes, carbon-wise.
[What is really amazing is all this work they go to yet they are doing nothing. Nothing is achieved. Sad.]
Agreed. Maybe one could think of bodybuilding as what car racing is for the car industry, a way of development and to see wether the cars can indeed achieve their full potential on different sorts of fuel, even if the production versions would usually be stuck in traffic most of the time anyway...
Confused
Why, if your eschewing a crippled world view, by not eating meat, would you want to attempt to ascribe to the advertising worlds idea of the perfect musculature? Seems mildly contrarian, like the folks who drive a Prius. It seems to be saying "I only want to appear to be differnt, because different would actually be, well, different."
You certainly need to take
You certainly need to take other vitamins and minerals in order to get all the protein you need else you will just be hurting your health in the long run
Vitamins/minerals are not the same as protein
Everybody, even meat eaters, should take a multivitamin/mineral supplement daily.
Vegetarian Bodybuilder Can Build Big Muscles
Good info. I am very sure Vegetarian Bodybuilder can build big muscles like meat eater. But they need more soy protein to help them on the way to bodybuilding success.
Some people attain their
Some people attain their desired body figure due to their self-discipline. Yes, if you rally want to have the ideal looks, you have to follow certain measures. It is similar with being successful in a business. Raser Technologies is taking a good thing and then doing something awesome with it. Raser Technologies just made a hybrid car out of a Hummer. The company has unveiled a plug in hybrid edition of the Hummer H3, a bold move in any case. Raser, now traded on the NYSE, is the company behind the E-REV engine, an extended range electric engine that will go up to 40 miles per charge when fully electric, and gets up to 100 mpg when using hybrid driving. It will take some hefty personal loans, though – available in 2011, and if the previous cost of a Hummer was prohibitive, it ought to take some hefty installment loans to get one from Raser Technologies.
Vegan is just as good, in a lot of ways.
Protein is protein. It doesn't matter how you slice it, although those of us who still cling to eating meat will swear to the deliciousness of a steak. (Especially a good NY strip, about 1 in. thick...I'm starting to drool.) That said, yeah, a vegetarian or vegan diet (and I am cognizant of the difference) is just as nutritionally filling as a diet that includes meat. Beans, for instance. Granted, when you eat them you run the risk of creating a personal odor that would strip the varnish from the foot locker, or send people running for the exits...on an airplane. Midflight. Really, it's true - protein is always protein, it doesn't matter if it comes from meat or not. The vitamins we absorb from food are more or less the same, regardless of source, so things which can be achieved nutritionally through eating a vegan diet will accomplish the same things as if a person didn't. Yes, a steak is far more gratifying to some people, but it's not for everyone, not to mention that beef and pork are actually that nutritious of meats. For those that want to still eat meat, you're better off partaking of an activity that many vegans decry - hunting. Granted, it might lump you in with Ted Nugent, which many people would decry (although Uncle Ted is actually quite the conservationist - he's planted more trees and raised more animals than any vegan possible to name, including any member of PETA) but the fact remains that venison is high protein, low fat. (Also, numerous studies, some carried out by the Nat'l Park service have shown repeatedly for decades that hunting maintains healthy population of animals that aren't already endangered.) Another great meat to eat for the high protein/low fat content is kangaroo, which would have a great shock value in North America, but down under is similar to deer hunting here. (Though Kangaroos are far more dangerous than deer.) I for one, believe that vegans can be just as healthy as people that still eat meat - nutrients are nutrients, regardless of source.
Why not? Vegetarian food
Why not? Vegetarian food helps to drop excess weight and not to fatten again. Being healthy is simple, furthermore you reduce the risk of chronic diseases such as coronary artery disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and even cancer.
دردشة منتدى منت
I am a vegan. Great to hear that I can get ripped!
Very interesting article. I am a vegan too and trying to get ripped. I was told that I need animal proteins to to be able to build big muscles. I am glad the hear that I can build muscle and burn fat without having to eat meat.
good
I read your article.The things you have written sound very sincere and nice topics i am looking forward to its continuation.
It's all in the amount
Really from the comments, there's many school of thoughts on the advantages of veg proteins and meat proteins. And there's no actual right or wrong when it comes to proteins be it plant or animal. What you really need to remember is always eat in moderation.
Thanks for a great article.
Thanks for a great article.
from Turbulence Training Works
Been really focusing on low
Been really focusing on low fat meats like fish and chicken. Trying to gain weigh and stay cut.
Sustainable and healthy
This Vegan style is the most healthy way to eat I have ever come across. I ate flesh most of my life, and after a very bad blood work up at the age of 50 I stopped eatting all animal products. The next year, without pharms of any kind, my levels were so much better than normal my Dr. was amazed. I have gained such muscle mass, and the weird thing? I have added an inch to my height, which probably means I am standing taller because of a healthier structure. Many are losing bone density at my age. As far as sustainable, I am able to keep my food products as long as I was able to keep flesh products. I eat nutritional yeast, high wheat gluten, tofu, all the fruits and veggies I can get my hands on. I have introduced so many vegan foods into my husbands diet he has lost over 10 pounds and his muscle tone is much firmer.
There will always be someone lending misinformation to the public, -such as the story that soy causes cancer- so if you are in doubt, try it for yourself, then make your own decisions.
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Great article
Love the way the article is written. Brings out the details of the competition.
great content
I like the way you gave the info behind the going ons of the competition.
