No, no, I'm fine with DADT, really. Let's keep it. Because as long as it's around I am and any other boy willing to kiss boys is 100% safe from the draft.

Haha, I'm torn between supporting DADT to keep myself safe from the craziness that is Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan and wanting to repeal it in the name of equality...

It's a shame Pace brought this up. It's frightening that Brownback defended him. Why inflame the issue? The military needs as many people as they can get right now.

I find it interesting that homosexuality & adultery are considered immoral by the army, but apparently rape, including the rape of another soldier, is not. The army moves quickly to dismiss people for being gay, or being accused of being gay, but rape---well that's apparently not a moral concern.

Gay soldiers can serve with distinction. A soldier who does his or her duty, regardless of his sexuality, is a trusted colleague and not a threat to good order and discipline. How do I know this? Because I have been a soldier for eleven years, and I have served with several gay soldiers.

In many cases a soldier's sexual orientation is something of an open secret--the soldier's comrades know that he or she is gay. And they don't care, as long as he or she is a good soldier. As an NCO and an officer I was made aware (often by the soldier in question) that I had gay soldiers serving in my unit. I never once reported a gay soldier to the chain of command, and would not recommend a soldier for removal on the basis of his or her sexual orientation.

It just doesn't matter. In this day and age, we have a hell of a lot more to worry about than who a soldier is sleeping with in their off-duty time. I mean seriously, what's more frightening, IEDs or a troop who finds other men attractive?

It is actually a dangerous practice. Having been through and having known people that have gone through security clearance, homosexuality is a topic that always comes up. You can get security clearance if you are openly gay; however if you are closeted gay (Say married with an affinity for secret trysts) you will not get clearance. This is not a moral issue; it is one of being black-mailable. The US military is creating a class of black-mailable military personnel because no one (This was a Clinton policy) has the balls to stand up for what is morally right.

Hajo

The high ranking officials are afraid of what they can't manage. They see homosexuals as a threat and the easiest way they know to manage it is to keep it out. It is unfortunate that no one has the balls to do what is really morally correct.

I am not gay and I would be afraid to join the army if I knew there were gay people there. It's fear not prejudice. Maybe there are a lot of people that feel the same way which may explain why it is that way. I don't have any sources of data for such a claim but I'm not the only one that's for sure.

Curt - perhaps you ought to examine why you have this fear. Frankly, I'd be afraid of the bullets, IEDs, and such, but I have no problems with including gays and lesbians in our Armed Services.

Actually, curt, it is prejudice by it's first definition, i.e. 'a judgment or opinion formed before the facts are known'. Do you know anything about real gay people or do you just know little bits and pieces you've heard from other people who don't really know gay people? In either case, I would be interested in hearing what a real war veteran had to say to you about asserting that your fear of serving your country is based on the prospect of fighting alongside a gay person. Because I'm sure that any soldier who has fought in a real conflict might respond with something like: "Stop worrying about who's looking at your ass, soldier, and pay attention to the battle at hand."
Hajo, that was an interesting point you made and I agree this creates yet another vulnerability in our armed forces.
Can Ralph Fleming qualify the assertion that gay people are 'the scum of the earth' in a factual way? I won't question the misfit thing - that's a compliment considering who in this country is considered a 'fit'. But how sad that to Ralph misfits and scum are the same thing. Some of the greatest minds, best innovators, advancers of the human condition have been uncontrovertable misfits. Sometimes they have been misfits during their time, but now would be part of the 'norm'. Ideas change and people who are smart enough to evolve do so.

Ralph Fleming's comments were deleted by the moderator (me). We do not tolerate hate-speech in the MojoBlog.

The fact that gays are not allowed in the US military is another sign that America couldn't care less about history. First of all, the other arguments stand: a gay man is no less capable of performing the duties of a soldier than any other man; gay men are shunned, but the sociopaths, the rather-too-girdie and the not-very-bright or the just-a-slightly-bit-nervous are just dandy when it comes to being in a theatre of war where, ahaha, you have to rely on the next man to cover your ass.
Please America, forget that the Spartan army encouraged homosexuality in its ranks because it fostered a drive to protect your mate during battle. History has proven that when it came to waging war, the Spartans were a force to be reckoned with. The fact that the US Army would rather shun people who want to serve with distinction over the ones who can barely muster enough presence of mind to serve at all is another sign of how skewed its morality is towards a portion of its population.
Also consider that the political leadership of the armed forces is not homosexual [at least not openly] but the manner in which they wage the war, pardon my French, is decidedly gay [which I do not, in the slightest bit, mean to use as a slur against homosexuals, thank you very much].

RE: Austin's
"I'm torn between supporting DADT to keep myself safe from the craziness that is Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan and wanting to repeal it in the name of equality.."

Those middle-east nations would be your best neighbours if you stopped your troops from raping their oilfields.
Ever notice that the US doesn't feel a burning need to 'bring democracy' to Iceland, or any other place that doesn't have oil, or geo-political advantage?

p.s. I think you may be a victim of corp-media news plunder. To cut some of the crap, check out democracynow.org

If I were a young American male and I didn't want to fight this gawd-forsaken, illegal invasion of a foreign country....I'd tell the recruiting officer that I was gay and had no intentions of using the Don't ask, Don't tell BS.
This policy of DADT is a piece of crap...it's OK apparently to 'die for your country' but by gawd don't let anyone know you're gay. It's just as easy to get a bullet in the back - mistakenly on purpose - from a fellow soldier who 'hates gays'. Why die for a country that despises you for who you are, but be willing to die for the privilege of knowing you are despised by Americans in general. I bet there wouldn't be any 'medals of valor or any other kind of acknowledgement for your 'heroic' act.
America and its people are the most hypocritical people in the world - for a supposedly 'democratic' country.

Ok...why do some people have the assumption that gays and lesbians are some kind of sex hungry dogs. These are PEOPLE like you or I. They are no different. You go to Iraq and don't screw anyone for that duration what makes you think they can't do the same. Half of them (like half of you) have significant others back at home for them. Do you believe that if you are with a gay soldier he will be unable to control himself?

Funny how even when we believe we live in equality its all bull.

Waldemar: >

I think you may have misunderstood my meaning. The war and damage that America has inflicted, not the countries' populations, is what I was calling "craziness" that I want to avoid.

Confuzzled brings up a very valid point. The first roommate I ever had in college made the assumption because I was gay, I would naturally wish to sleep with him, which was assuredly not the case. Nevertheless, he moved out within two weeks, and never slept in the room with me before then. What a strange people we -- correction: they -- are!

The 2000 Supreme Court decision of Boy Scouts of America case related to this resulted a constitutional recognition of the right of private organizations to allow whom they want and/or restrict whom they want. The army is a private-public service that can decide who they want in. By voicing a want to change a policy of a private organization that you are not a part of, you are in fact voicing a motion to rid them of their constitutional rights. By going for equality, you will have taken some away; equal protection of law garunteed under the 14th ammendment.

What am I missing, Michael? My tax money doesn't fund the Boy Scouts - it does help fund the Armed Forces. I think your argument is baseless.

I agree. Michael's example may well extend to the following: outlawing women, African Americans, and people under 40 from Congress. (Of course, that's generally how it goes, anyway.)

I feel anyone can serve. I have served. But when I look at the soldiers in Iraq,I see one unit, one body of soldiers defending freedom, who cares whether you are gay or straight? The world doesn't need to know. All we need to know is that there are young brave men and women defending our freedom and our country. No one should get special privileges because their openly gay that's insane and it demoralizes the standards of the Military code of Justice. I still have a desire to serve my country again, but due to a mistake I made when I was 22 years old, I have a felony now that is preventing my re-entry.People make mistakes in this journey called life and it should not be held against them for the rest of their life in my opinion if their desire is to still serve their country. That's what the military is all about, doing something that most american citizens won't do, which is to lay their lives down for the freedom of this great nation. Every soldier who serves is awesome and unique in their own way and it doesn't matter if they are gay, straight or have a felony. Having served my country was rewarding and if the opportunity is presented again for felons to serve I would be the first one with my name on that list to go and serve again proudly besides my brothers/sisters in battle. So stop please with all the gay rights and who got felony convictions. The ultimate goal is to keep 9/11 from happening again in this country and defending freedom until the end of time and enjoying the experience of having done something great for this Nation we all call home.