No, Utah students are not carrying concealed firearms on campus "in the wake of the latest college shootings," they have been carrying concealed firearms on campus for years.

And since there have been no students blowing each other away for copying answers in class or whatever else you think the danger is, I fail to see why you think this is a problem. Don't you have to demonstrate an ill effect? Or is just your speculation that it's bad enough to judge whether or not it's a bad policy?

The only ill effect I have seen thus far of people carrying guns onto campus have been at universities where legal CCW permit holders are barred from carrying.

Show me evidence that Utah's law has a detrimental effect, or show me how Gun Free Zones prevent school massacres. If you can't, then what is your case, exactly?

["Show me evidence that Utah's law has a detrimental effect, or show me how Gun Free Zones prevent school massacres. If you can't, then what is your case, exactly?"]

Who needs a REAL problem to wring their hands over?

All we need is a vivid imagination, and a lurid story about what COULD happen where students can legally carry defensive weapons. (...and never mind what HAS happened where they COULDN'T!)

( I don't feel any better thinking someone in the room believes he's got the Die Hard focus to avoid all the fleeing bodies and the pandemonium and take out only the deranged shooter who started it all.)

What's wrong with you, so you want me to hide amongst the bodies and hope that the shooter runs out of ammo or kills himself before he gets to me? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. This whole fear that the good guy with a gun might hurt another good guy in the room while trying to get the bad guy is ludacris. Is there a chance that I could hurt someone in the challenge to take out some psycho that is clearing the room, yes but there is also a chance that I might save myself and a few others by taking him out before he kills that one good guy I "might" have hurt. I mean come on, you think that the guy in the room that's babbling psychotic nothings is a better option, you want to bet that somehow you'll be able to dodge his bullet or be one of the "lucky" survivors, well that's fine. But me, I'm not going to hide and hope and beg for my life like that.

What has this country come to. When some nutbar can walk in to a class room or cafeteria and start picking people off and we just cry and huddle together. Is that what our response is, hide under a table and hope that he doesn't hit my vitals as he murders my classmates? Wow, the sheeping of America is almost complete.

you pro-gun people live in a fantasy world if you think you're going to stop a shooting on your own. be realistic: your bravado isn't going to do you a lot of good when somebody is firing round after round at you in a crowded room and getting down is the only thing that won't get you shot. besides, if a would-be killer knew people might be armed they would just change tactics. most of these killers commit suicide anyway, so how is the threat of a gun going to dissuade them?

ban handguns.

Guns don't kill people; people with itchy trigger fingers and no training or self-control kill people. 'Nuff said.

["you pro-gun people live in a fantasy world if you think you're going to stop a shooting on your own. be realistic:"]

Realistic? OK.
Look for a story on Vice Principal Joel Myrick, of Pearl Mississippi.
It's not all that easy to find, because it's a case where an armed citizen DID put an early end to a school shooting spree, ALL on His Own!
But damn! MSM sez You just AREN'T supposed to KNOW about THAT! (which is why You DON'T!)
www.davekopel.com/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

["your bravado isn't going to do you a lot of good when somebody is firing round after round at you in a crowded room and getting down is the only thing that won't get you shot."]

Explain that to the soldier who knows he/she can either cower on the ground and wait for one to hit, or send some back the other way.
Anyway, if getting down is the only thing that won't get you shot, why did so many who got down STILL get SHOT?
The military teaches you to get down AND shoot back. That's not about "bravado" (which is stupidity), it's about survival.

["besides, if a would-be killer knew people might be armed they would just change tactics."]

Like how, do you suppose?
Shoot up a nursing home instead?
I say MAKE 'em change tactics!
The one they've been using to date is working FAR too well..., for THEM.

["ban handguns."]

Talk about your fantasy world!
Jamaica took it one step farther in 1974, banning ALL private firearms ownership.
Launched house-to-house searches and gun seizures. (wouldn't that just make you WET yourself with a feeling of security?)

Guess what it did for Jamaica?
They're third in the world in murders per-capita! With a murder rate 7.5 times HIGHER than ours.
www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita&int=-1

Also, among the top six, South Africa, Mexico and Russia have much stiffer 'gun control' laws than we do, and all have at least three times as high a murder rate as ours.
I'd be willing to bet quite a few of the 23 countries with higher murder rates than ours also has stricter civilian disarmament laws than we do, but I don't have time to look 'em all up.

["most of these killers commit suicide anyway, so how is the threat of a gun going to dissuade them?"]
From police Captain Massad Ayoob:
{"Israel began the program of armed citizen guards in the schools after the Maalot massacre in the 1970s, when a large number of children were slain in a terrorist incident. The volunteer parents work in plain clothes, armed with concealed semi-automatic pistols, and are trained by Israel's home guard.
It is significant that in the more than a quarter century between Maalot and the incident mentioned above when the citizen guards shot down the terrorist in the school in 2002, not a single child was murdered in an Israeli school! [...]
Of course, the politically correct hand-wringers want nothing to do with this. Sadly, being helpless themselves, sheep tend to instinctively fear anything with canine teeth. Many of them cannot distinguish between the wolf and the sheepdog, and thus fear them both equally."}
www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob81.html

Hoo-Ray for Gun Control!

So, we should do away with guns and this will result in lower deaths? What about the other crimes that are sure to rise? Also this, you can't stop illegal aliens, or drugs for the most part from comming accross the border, how do you stop the illegall gun trade that is sure to erupt? After the steller job this country did in protecting the citizens of New Orleans , after Katrina, I say more guns and training! Why doesn't Israel have as many murders as the United States? after all they are an armed country. Could it be the United States corrupt gene pool, lack of education and a criminal justice system that codify's it's criminals? No it is not a gun problem , it is a society problem, and our's is corrupt with out morals or compassion. Therefore I will keep my gun, you can put your trust in 911 or the local police if you want, but being a criminal justice student I see and know the truth, guns save lives.

NMC trots out the frequently used illogical position: That guns are murderous, dangerous and deadly effective devices in the hands of a criminal, yet useless, fumbling, ineffective objects in the hands of a defensive shooter.

Nevermind that concealed carry permit holders train with and shoot their guns far more often than criminals or these school shooters, who usually have little experience with guns until they walk into that school, and never mind that people use guns effectively in self defense every single day without blowing away random bystanders.

In other words, never mind the reality—instead lets immerse ourselves in the fantasy worst-case scenario which, while plausible, hasn't happened.

Chicken Little.

How does all this supposed pro-gun 'logic' diminish the tragedy of the events? I see ONE anecdote about a prinicipal in Miss - Big Deal. Guns are used everyday in self-defence? Jamaica as an example of how banning guns increases murder rates? All of this is more NRA drivel - what are your sources for all of these assertions? How about some footnotes people. And another point-visualize the fun of a gaggle of 'trained shooters' in a crowded locale with guns drawn trying to identify the threat among screaming paniced people - there will be additional tragedy that day I assure you.

Here's a post on current legislative activity to make it more difficult for employers to keep guns out of the workplace.

http://hrheroblogs.com/theword/2008/05/15/guns-laws-and-the-workplace/