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The Hack Gap Revisited: "Lipstick on a Pig" Edition

When I saw the video clip of Meghan McCain saying, "No one knows what war is like other than my family" I knew that she meant to say "No one knows what war is like BETTER than my family." So I didn't write about it on our blog.

Then I saw that conservatives are actually acting outraged over this "lipstick on a pig" nonsense. And it smacked me in the face: the hack gap had struck again.

The hack gap is the difference between political observers and writers on the left and on the right. Those on the left (most, anyway) give the benefit of the doubt. They have a sense of shame. They are willing to consider the validity of something before running with it. And they don't try to disguise obviously phony outrage as genuine outrage.

As this "lipstick" thing illustrates (as well as any example you can find with five seconds of searching), the right doesn't operate the same way. And that's one of the reasons why it wins.

And let me add that I'm aware I occasionally complain in this space that the left doesn't play tough enough. And I'm aware that by not writing about the Meghan McCain clip, I would appear to be committing the sin for which I criticize others. But I'd like to believe you can get tough without being disingenuous. And besides, our readers would revolt if I treated an obvious verbal slip by a candidate's child as indicative of something more serious. The fact that Limbaugh's audience eats that sort of thing up doesn't necessarily mean ours does.

The takeaway? The left has two problems: a lack of hacks and a lack of a market for hacks.

Update: Mike Huckabee refuses to be a hack.






Comments

PARTY ANIMALS

NEWSWIRE:
"...the difference between a hockey mom and a Pit Bull? Lipstick."
-- Sarah Palin
"You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."
-- Barack Obama

If you can let the sleeping Pit Bull lie,
And avoid the donkey and its hooving,
Then here's a rule for pigs you should apply:
They're only lying when their lipstick's moving.

www.newsandverse.com
Light verse, ripped from the headlines

Obama doesn't respect women. We are very conscious about our weight and to call Sarah a pig is not the way to take the high road. I am not voting for Obama. Especially the way he treated Senator Clinton.

Posted by: Maria on 09/10/08 at 7:02 AM  Respond

JS,

"And besides, our readers would revolt"

I gave up on you a while ago and I see nothing has changed.

"The takeaway? The left has two problems: a lack of hacks and a lack of a market for hacks."

Why would THAT be the takeaway not that the GOPhers are hacks with a market for lies?

You sir are a bit too tooly for my taste.

I wonder why you do such shoddy work?

Posted by: capt on 09/10/08 at 7:14 AM  Respond

Maria,

You should take a close look at McCains record on disrespecting women. It's impressive to say the least! He's been disrespecting women his entire life--including his own wives. He cheated on the first wife, then married the one he cheated on with! Then there's the many stories of verbal abuse by McCain to women.

Posted by: Brian on 09/10/08 at 7:15 AM  Respond

Maria, Obama did not call Sarah a pig. He used an OLD phrase to talk about putting a shine on sh*t but it still being shit. This is a phrase that Obama has used before and that McCain used in reference to Hillary's health care plan last year. It had nothing to do with Sarah.

Posted by: rob on 09/10/08 at 7:19 AM  Respond

Maria,

Did you even listen or read what Obama said. It had nothing to do with Palin and everything to do with McCain's policies.

The way he treated Clinton? How about the way she treated him? Why is it okay for women politicians to do whatever to whoever they want?

Obama...a man raised by a single mother, a husband and a father of two girls...doesn't respect women...riiiggghht.

Posted by: blue on 09/10/08 at 7:22 AM  Respond

She is a pig. If the hoof fits...wear it

Posted by: RMP on 09/10/08 at 8:04 AM  Respond

Hey rmp,

Like i said to a poster earlier, since you are now calling Sarah a "Pig", and MJ thinks it is fine, does that mean that we can start calling obama a "N****r"..?

You better be careful how LOW you go, because it can get real ugly, real FAST..!!!

Understand...Boy ?

Bill

Posted by: Bill Nigh on 09/10/08 at 8:54 AM  Respond

I love women. My mother was one, my wives have been women, and I have four incredible daughters. Women are wonderful, intelligent and fascinating.

I have always supported women wanting to be treated with respect, given equal pay for equal work, and given every opportunity to smash any glass ceiling anywhere. My best bosses have been women.

But when a woman asks for special treatment because she is a woman, I say no fair. If they agree to be in the kitchen and cannot stand the heat, get out. Sarah Palin accepted McCain's invitation to become his running mate, and that means no-holds-barred. If she wants to be vice president, and maybe--God forbid--president, she better get used to being slapped around all over the world. Hillary Clinton was slapped around pretty roughly during her campaign, especially by McCain and Obama, and she suffered greatly from vicious criticism when she was First Lady. She took it, not like a man, but like a very dignified, strong woman. I do not remember her whining that the boys were too rough.

Now Palin has not asked for quarter. It is, as usual, the media that have gotten on this lipstick thing because it's a soft news day and it's moronically easy to get the attention of people who don't think further than their own lips. Sarah will punch back, we can be certain.

But if she does play the poor-abused-girl card, let her have it, and make sure she is never a heartbeat away from being president. She would show her weakness, and a weak president we do not need. Or an old one, either. (Actually, as a fire breathing liberal, I think her ship, and McCain's, needs to be sunk now.)

Mr. Nigh,

Sarah Palin was not called a pig by anyone. But if she were, women would, rightfully, be extremely angry. However, call Obama a n***** and African Americans, rightfully, would burn this country, which they built, to the ground, figuratively, of course. The least that would happen is that Obama would be president for eight years. Come to think of it, maybe someone should . . . nah, he'll win without using a standard Republican smear, like they used on John McCain in 2004.

I fundamentally disagree with Mike Huckabee on just about everything. However, he always impresses me with his humor, candor, and lucidity.

I never want him in public office anywhere near me, mind you. But I'm glad he sees stuff like this and can call it what it is. He was one of the few conservatives who cut Obama any slack when the whole Wright thing blew up, too, and was one of the few who really voiced appreciation for Obama's speech on race.

Posted by: John on 09/10/08 at 10:06 AM  Respond

Posted by RMP:---

"She is a pig. If the hoof fits...wear it"
=============================

So Mr Fredrick, as you can see from the above post, i was revering to RMP who HAD called her a pig.. Correct...?

Of course no in in the MCCain camp has evercalled him that, but you have to understand that if the dems want to fight dirty, they will get MORE than they had ever bargined for...

Understand..?
Don't think that the balck people are the only ones in theis country with a long memory. I know a whole lot of families who still refer to the Civil wat as the "War of Northern Agression".

I think it is an outdated concept, but in millions of families it is not..:-)

Bill

Posted by: Bill Nigh on 09/10/08 at 10:09 AM  Respond

Complete Obama quote : "John McCain says he's about change too, and so I guess his whole angle is, 'Watch out George Bush -- except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics -- we're really going to shake things up in Washington,'" he said.

"That's not change. That's just calling something the same thing something different. You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. You know you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it's still going to stink after eight years. We've had enough of the same old thing."

Where's the reference to Sarah Palin? There isn't any. It's a common phrase and Obama even explained the context. So common even John McCain has been known to use it.

John McCain: In Iowa last October, McCain drew comparisons between Hillary Clinton's current health care plan and the one she championed in 1993: "I think they put some lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig." He used the same line in May.

McCain has proposed to bankrupt the country even faster than Bush with bigger tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% and more tax breaks for fossil fuel industries. Think any of that would trickle down to the rest of us? He'll give you a tax "credit" less than half what it takes to go out and buy health insurance for your family but you're on your own after that. He thinks we can throw the Russians out of the G8 when in fact the Russians would have to vote themselves out. Even the Bush Administration thinks that's nutty. Everyone from the Iraqi government to the Bush Administration has adopted Obama's timetable for getting out of Iraq but McCain still wants to stay for four, a hundred or a thousand years, or whatever it is this week.

Pigs will fly before any of that works.

Posted by: markg8 on 09/10/08 at 10:17 AM  Respond

This is the most ridiculous back-and-forth argument I've ever heard of. Everyone that is arguing about this must not have anything else to talk about. It is SO obvious that Obama has been using this reference long before Palin came in as the nominated VP post for Republicans, and its obvious that anyone that takes it literally is, for lack of better words, dumb.

Posted by: Brittany on 09/10/08 at 11:18 AM  Respond

The funniest thing about this besides the faux outrage is that Sarah most likely could care less about the statement and is busy cramming for her debate with Biden. Or doing her hair.

Vote for McCain / Palin for better treatment for women is like becoming a trustee in a German concentration camp in WW II. You may avoid the gas chamber for a while; at the end of the day you will be both dehumanized and dead. All you will have bought is time and an awareness that you just didn't get it.

Posted by: Jim on 09/10/08 at 1:59 PM  Respond

If he had said, you can put lipstick on a 50 cent whore and she is still a 50 cent whore, I could understand what the fuss is about!

Posted by: Rodney Byrd on 09/10/08 at 2:21 PM  Respond

Some people are looking for any reason not to vote for Obama to avoid the fact that they are racist. The way you twisted the truth, it sounds like you’re a Republican anyway!

Posted by: Rodney Byrd on 09/10/08 at 2:26 PM  Respond

Maria said,

"Obama doesn't respect women. We are very conscious about our weight and to call Sarah a pig is not the way to take the high road. I am not voting for Obama. Especially the way he treated Senator Clinton"

I think this story has been beat to death. Everyone and I mean everyone knows now that the McCain campaign's cry for an apology was a distraction to get the media focused on this sophmoric lame act by McCain&CO., to avoid talking about the problems and scandals that are surfacing about Palin.

The troopergate story shows extreme abuse of power by Palin and more and more is surfacing about this story. The phoney story about the bridge to nowhere and the firing of her chef to the way she took money from tax payers to live her own home are serious problems for the campaign.

What appalled me most today was that the press bought into it. However, it seems to have backfired on the McCain campaign--Palin is looking weak-as if she needs the "good ole boys" to defend her honor and it only focuses on her inability to speak to the press without a script. There is a reason they have her in hiding--they dont want the public to find out who she really is.

Posted by: nnorman51 on 09/10/08 at 2:30 PM  Respond

To Markg8:
"Pigs will fly before any of that works."
These days, pigs are flying all over the place, lipstick and all. Better find another expression for "ain't gonna happen." The old expression is going to offend someone's sensibilities. Like Rush Limbaugh or Karl Rove.

Posted by: lawyerfan on 09/10/08 at 2:31 PM  Respond

I didn't think anything about Obma's comment. I believed he was referring to McCains inability to understand anything about the way government works. Yes he (McCain) was in isolation in Hanoi but that only proved he couldn't have any idea what was going on in American Policy decisions. He has absolutely no experience. He is a fraud

Posted by: Charley Barcelo on 09/10/08 at 2:41 PM  Respond

I am with Frederick Fuller.

I am a woman and I am totally disgusted with the McShame campaign. Can't he win an election on his own merits? Now they are demanding an apology on a trumped up claim that Obama called Palin a pig. Any intelligent person who listened to his entire address knows he was refering to policies, not Palin. Obama better not apologize because it is not warranted.

And 10,000 lashes to the each anchor in news media for not digging deep enough to expose the fact that John McCain himself is accused of using the exact same phrase.

Pity on all people that actually may fall for this latest diversion. I noticed that most of the news outlets have not managed to give as much airtime, if any to Ron Paul's assertion of no confidence in either the McCain or Obama tickets. Perhaps this is why the McShame camp has chosen to start this false furor.

Posted by: Lyssa Barnes on 09/10/08 at 4:15 PM  Respond

the real pig is Pelosi

Posted by: adam on 09/10/08 at 4:21 PM  Respond

Enough already. Obama did not call Palin a pig, but apparently McCain has decided Palin is a pig. McCain would rather drag Palin in as being the pig, instead of McCain's economic policy being like a pig with lipstick. McCain has made a mountain out of a molehill and undoubtedly has hurt Palin's feelings. McCain appears to think it is better to complain about what Obama supposedly meant because of his lack of economic understanding, and blame his lack of ability and understanding on a supposed reference to Palin, than it is to actually have an economic policy, as he has stated for all the world to hear that he knows nothing about economics. McCain is the one who is disrespectful of Palin --- not Obama. McCain should apologize to Palin. McCain is trying to use Palin as a cover up for himself [McCain] not having an economic policy, or McCain would not be trying to get Obama to apologize for telling him his economic policy is like putting lipstick on a pig. Since McCain can't tell what's going on any better than that, McCain should not even be considered for president of the United States. Obama has nothing to apologize about. McCain's economic policy is like lipstick on a pig.

Posted by: MarthaA on 09/10/08 at 4:42 PM  Respond

McC's misdirection of BO's comment is a artful use of misdirection. It tells me McC has been listening to the GOP Master of Propaganda, Karl Rove, who is also directing the salvage operation made necessary by McC not properly vetting the Pit Bull. What Palin said about lipstick would work in the outback of Alaska, but in a Presidential election, I'm sure McC's handlers were shocked. Then there's the question of out of wedlock pregnancy, within the party of family values, morals and ethics, that also required Karl's immediate services to put lipstick on the P....forgive me, the dear young person who is now going to grow up much faster than we ever imagined. Nice wording Karl! The PB and McC only need one vote to win and that statement may do it!

Harry Truman said: "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!" All's fair in love, war, and American Politics. May the best Liar WIN!

P.S.: I want to apologize to the Talent on Loan From God Guy as I just didn't have time and he might think I am slighting him. I suggest you all check with him to get all this Right.

Posted by: Ted Gilmore on 09/10/08 at 6:42 PM  Respond

Palin is not a pig, that of course is subjective, but what she is a Caribou with personality problem, she lies, she bully's, "throws her fat ass around" to get what she wants, see Trooper gate for clarification, and thats not even the tip of the ice berg.
She has a problem keeping her legs closed,"albeit the story coming out sept 15th In the National Enquirer about here having and affair with her husbands business partner, this should provide some comedy relief for all concerned.
The RNC has already threatened to sue but to no avail, the story has been printed and should be hitting the stores soon,
I wonder what they'll call this, jelly roll gate?Or the spread em moose folly's

Posted by: nightslider on 09/10/08 at 7:10 PM  Respond

Maria,
I would agree with you if Obama had referred to Sarah Palin as a pig. But he didn't! He was discussing McCain's health care program and used a common expression indicating that someone is trying to disguise the truth: "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig." There was no reference whatever to Sarah Palin! For the McCain campaign to cry that this was somehow a sexist comment directed at Palin is patently misleading - and cynical. And for the record, McCain has used the same expression - "You can put lipstick on a pig, etc." - at least four times in public during this presidential campaign. Don't vote for Obama if you disagree with him on factual matters. But for heaven's sake, don't be taken in by the distorted interpretation of his remarks being put out by McCain's campaign.

Posted by: Paul on 09/10/08 at 9:21 PM  Respond

Can you put lipstick on a pitbull and call it a Hockey Mom? BTW I understand that Gov Palin's son played only a couple of years at a very junior level...

Posted by: mikie on 09/11/08 at 1:55 AM  Respond

MarthaA: Thank you for the comic relief...it was great!!!

Palin will finally come out of hiding later today. She is supposed to be speaking to Charles Gibson. Let's hope he asks her if SHE thought Obama was calling her a pig with lipstick. That way we can stop talking about it and move on to the lies she's been telling and the hypocrisy she's been living. For example: We all know that Palin is pro-life, even in cases of rape and incest. We all know she preaches abstinence-only, in her religious beliefs, her personal philosophy, but more importantly, on a political level, she supports FEDERALLY-FUNDED abstinence-only sexual health education instead of comprehensive sexual health education. Every study has shown that abstinence-only programs DO NOT WORK!!! Yet, she will continue to use OUR tax dollars to support abstinence-only sexual health education. Here's the irony and hypocrisy: her 17 year old daughter, as we all know, is pregnant; so much for abstinence. BUT, Internet reports suggest that Palin herself was pregnant when she got married. She was married on August 29, 1988 and, according to Internet searches, her son Track's birthday is April 20, 1989. She either had him pre-mature or she was pregnant. I guess her political philosophy should actually be, "do as I say, not as I do." Or "You know what they say the difference between a pit bull and a Hockey mom is? Hypocrisy"

So how does the right-wing, conservative, family values, abstinence-only, religious-touting, Republican defend that?

Posted by: Common Sense in Politics on 09/11/08 at 5:14 AM  Respond

Obama's remark "Lipstick on a Pig", gaff or calculated?

Only if you believe Barrack Obama is a gifted orator who knows how to play to an audience, would you be offended by a remark that seemingly jabs Sarah Palin?

You would also have to know the street use of this term, analogous to putting a paper bag over a woman's head before sexual intercourse.

Posted by: Vic on 09/11/08 at 5:43 AM  Respond

I can't believe how full of BS the GOP is and how people continue to fall for it hook, line and sinker even after 8 years of it. We have got to be the dumbest nation on earth!

Obama was not talking about Palin. Watch the freakin' clip, fer chrissakes! He was talking about the McCain campaign claiming to be different from the Bush admin. The "lipstick on a pig" phrase has been around forever. A while back, McCain used the same phrase to describe Hillary Clinton's healthcare plan. Was that sexist or was he just using a well-worn common phrase?

Does the GOP somehow have a copyright on the word "lipstick" after Palin's lame one-liner at the RNC? Give me a break!

I have not voted for a Democrat or Republican for president in a long long time. I hadn't planned on doing so this time, either. Now, for the first time, I'm actually considering voting for Obama because the GOP not only continues to sink to new depths, but also because the absurd way they run their campaigns has reached new heights.

Posted by: bizona on 09/11/08 at 6:49 AM  Respond

I agree that fairness is a liberal value, and it has cost us dearly. If Obama loses this election it will be because of slimy "win by any means necessary" McCain tactics. It is difficult to know where to draw the line between standing up to them and becoming them, but I hope Obama finds it.

Re: lipstick. Why did Palin crack the lipstick joke in the first place? Hilary spent her whole campaign trying to prove she was just as tough as the boys, and the Republicans, when they weren't smearing her, were taking notes. So now here comes Palin saying "Look at me, I'm a girl! I have a womb and I wear lipstick!" Now, if anyone criticizes her (or uses the term "lipstick" in any context) they are labeled sexist or disrespectful to women. And the only people who would care are... liberals. Nice win-win for McCain. If you look at the actual policies of the candidates, it becomes painfully clear who is disrespectful to women, and it is NOT Obama.

Posted by: AM on 09/11/08 at 7:44 AM  Respond

As ABC News showed last night, McCain has used the phrase "lipstick on a pig" three times during his campaign against Hillary Clinton, in direct reference to her policies. Obama didn't mention Palin at all when he used that phrase - he was talking about the McCain policies. Get the facts, people!

Posted by: Scott Baker on 09/11/08 at 7:45 AM  Respond

I feel sorry for people like Maria and Vic. The McCain campaign is about Anything But the Issues, and their phony outrage over this non-story is just another example of that.

The fact that people like Maria can't see that Obama's comment clearly had absolutely nothing to do with Palin is proof that their tactics are working.

Americans are proving themselves to be dumb as doorknobs. The Republicans are masters at exploiting that.

Oh, and last night on Letterman, Obama said that if he were referencing Palin with that comment (while emphasizing that he was not), she'd be the lipstick on the pig, not the pig.

Posted by: Stosh on 09/11/08 at 8:12 AM  Respond

The only way Sen. Obama's comment can be linked in any way to Sarah Palin is they both used the word "lipstick" in a speech. Only the ignorant and gullible would assume Obama was referring to Palin when he made his lipstick comment - or perhaps GOP fundies who are doing their best to divert attention from the real issues. Last month the GOP was fussing because Obama wasn't wearing a flag pin on his lapel; this week they are fuming because they insist Obama called Palin a pig. What about the REAL issues: War, the economy, Big Oil, getting rid of Bush and his cronies and his policies and making sure no one like him ever sets foot near the White House again? Those are the issues that really need addressing. Right now I personally could care less about Palin, her lipstick, or anything else about her. I think we are all in serious need of Getting Back On Track.

Posted by: Big Jim McBob on 09/11/08 at 10:21 AM  Respond

(See above for details)

Posted by: Bill Nigh is a barnyard idiot (as usual) : ) on 09/11/08 at 12:21 PM  Respond

Has anyone else noticed that it's the Republicans who heard the phrase 'lipstick on a pig' and thought immediately of Sarah Palin?

Just thought I'd point this out. What we are to make of it, I haven't a clue.

Posted by: Mrs. Garside on 09/11/08 at 1:10 PM  Respond

There's only wrong thing with Obama. He does not think the American public is stupid. He's wrong. Just the fact that so much flak is being given to a funny remark (and even funnier if it was really intended for the pit bull with lipstick as she calls herself - my view is if it talks like a duck and thinks like a duck it's probably a duck - in other words if Mccain thinks it describes Palin and she thinks it describes her well, as one guy said, "if the hoof fits - - ". Obama never said anything that Mccain hasn't said at least 5 times, so what's the double standard based on? Would she have been supposedly offended at the one I was raised on, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"? Well, yeah, that really fits her - lets face it - pigs have taken a dive to new depths in the animal world this year.
The whole silly and phony outrage over an either witty or innocent remark (to Obama fans, of which I am one, he can do no wrong), proves the two main cable news stations are on top of what they think their viewers want to hear and the only thing they understand - anything that can be torn apart, criticized, made controversial, scandalous, confrontational, and with a little luck, lots of nasty mouth watering violence thrown in which is their secret fantasy (the media CNN and FOX and their public) and of course the more insignificant, the better.
because that way they don't have to get off their sorry asses and actually do anything like real journalism.
(Sorry Jack Cafferty, this does not include you. You should go to work on MSNBC.)
On second thought stay there, you are = you are really needed as the only sane head in the house.

Every republican I know loves violence, killing - animals in person, people by proxy (that's why war is so popular with them), think there's nothing wrong with torture or killing civilians including their children, or anyone at all of a different culture, race or religion. They actually quote the bible as justification for their disgusting lack of humanity, with the god given right to destroy all those who aren't christians but after manipulating them for every cent that can be bludgoned from them first, and any sidelines of toture can be just considered an entertainment bonus. How that differs one iota from the fundamentalist beliefs of the terrorist sects is a big mystery to me. They are two of a kind. The most self defining description of a Republican is greed for money and things it will buy -if it takes destroying the planet and its wildlife and habitat and environment to achieve that goal so what? If the ruthless can be kept in power and those are the ones who usually are, you can control or limit the education of the ones who aren't so there will always be a huge field of undereducated to exploit until its all wiped out by manmade catsstrophe - a nuclear war (No, Bush, not nucular)or climate corruption from all that oil that should have been eliminated many years ago and would have but for republican greed..

The fact that whoremongering, excuse me, that's warmongering McCain has gotten as far as he has
proves there are way too many stupid people in this country to feel safe. It's my home too and I think its time to say more than that's enough. I'm sick of people spouting evil hatred intended to cover their obvious bias and bigotry - I'm sick of stupidity that would consider giving power to a woman who believes a child conceived in rape and or incest should be born and I assume raised up by the mother (or left to rot in an institution?) or would deliberately bring a deformed baby into the world to suffer for years or uses power to whip or exploit or just plain manipulate, who lies in every pulic propoganda speech - who must have signed a real sweetheart of an arrangement with the sick and senile old man who can't quit ogling her - and who is apparently winning over at least the stupidest segment of the republican party and believe me that can be an incredibly mind boggling group with unlimited stupidity who to this day still believe the Iraguis were responsible for bombing the Trade Center. -That's because they don't listen, because they can't understand what is spoken and they've never read a book in their lives. The richwat one percent who control the wealth, mostly republicans. encourage their ignorance by sponsoring useless "news" media who avoid anything like facts or truth like a pig avoids a bath, even one with lipstick.

I will not accept Mccain as president even if he manages to brainwash, bully or buy his way into the presidency or just plain stacks the vote like Bush did with crooked machines. It is not a democracy if the vote includes input from a big group of idiots who should have never been allowed out of the 4th grade schoolyard, where they still are mentally. I hope Biden rips her guts out and just let Hillary onto her. I disliked Hillary when she was so snipey to Obama but I would love to see her take Palin apart - maybe there is something to watching tortue after all. Our gal Hillary was too handicapped with a bossy husband who would try to control Obama and who didn't find her real swing until it was too late but she is so astronomically superior in every way to Palin's white trash persona that it can't be equated..

I seriously think this country may never come together again and you know what - if the republicans rule I don't want any part of it. It's sick enough as is - and that's now a world wide opinion. Or I may join up with what I predict will be an undergrund movement to take our country back from the corrupt. Mccain is one of them and Palin is worse.

Posted by: dy foley on 09/11/08 at 7:21 PM  Respond

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