Veep Debate: An End to the Sarah Palin Reality TV Show

Why did Biden not say that
Barrack voted against the war.
He should of said it over and over.

Joe Biden acted as though it was "Take your daughter to work day," beaming at Palin and laughing with her, not at her.

As she consistently switched from the topic at hand to her well-memorized but flimsy talking points, Palin actually sounded quite sharp and intelligent (if you were not aware of the facts she distorted). Her obvious lie about Obama's tax plan has been publicly refuted several weeks ago.

Palin persisted in mentioning Senate bills that Obama voted against, but Biden explained that McCain voted against them as well.

Palin believes with McCain that lowering taxes on large corporations is good for America. Reagan and two Bushes proved beyond all doubt that those "voodoo economics" dreams turn into nightmares.

What is Biden's legacy in the Senate? Let's see...in '88 he plagiarized another man's speech. He "forgot" that the eastern U.S. runs on coal. Asked a wheelchair bound gentleman to stand. Oh, yeah, he ran for president and got a whole 2 votes, or was that 1/2 percent? Either way, he's a popular guy.

Americans on the whole have chosen ignorance when it comes to politics. We want change, blind change. Remember Ross Perot? He was change, a nut job, but nevertheless change.

Veep duties, including foreign policy are learned and if it was a man in a wheelchair, Joe Biden would ask it to stand up.

I did not see the whole debate, just snippets of it on CNN, but brother does that woman scare me. Her ignorance combined with a smile that's had more excercise than her brain make me wonder just how so many American's can be taken in.

No, she's not stupid. What hides behind that very, very fake smile, is cunning. The cunning of a woman who knows how to wear it and how to say it so it sounds sincere.

Jimmy... YOU are the nut job if you think Palin would make a better president than Biden

get real

A friend of mine noticed that Palin used the word "also" a lot during the debate. I just mined the transcript: the word "also" appeared a total of 57 times during the debate, and Palin is responsible for FIFTY-TWO of them!

The WSJ should put that in their word cloud:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-DebateCloud081002-DD.html

(The cloud misrepresents Biden's use of the word "maverick," by the way--he said it 9 times, not 18.)

By my counts, Palin used the word 'also' a total of 48 times in the Vice Presidential debate compared to Biden's 3 times and Ifill's 2 times.

I got my copy of the transcript from the New York Times. Perhaps they cut a few of Palin's uses out, but at least we seem to agree that between Biden and Ifill the word was only used 5 times.

i didn't watch the whole debate, but I did notice one (what I considered) glaring discrepancy. She certainly repeated the Repub line that raising taxes will cost jobs and hurt the economy (like *cutting* taxes hasn't given us that, along with a *huge* debt that will need to be repaid). She also touted McCain's desire to cut taxes on corporations in order to "free" them to grow the economy. But she also bragged about the fact that, as governor, she *increased* taxes on oil companies in Alaska! Now how can you claim that tax increases would destroy the nation, support tax cuts as the solution to every problem, and brag about increasing taxes?

Palin did as some blogger suggested she would as evidenced by a piece of video of her gubernatorial debate in Alaska; much better than expected. She was able to portray an American politician just fine for 90 minutes standing next to a member of Congress of 30 years.

This should have everyone demanding that the PDC be sh*t-canned immediately. They obviously do not have the best interests of Americans at heart if a deranged, goof-ball, beauty-pageant-answering, D student can stand up to Gwen Ifell and Joe Bident. The FORMAT and CONTENT of the questions does not expose the candidate to any serious challenge. It simply provides them with a platform to spew their campaign slogans, and Sarah Palin did that with an expert vengeance.

First of all, Matt Gonzales should have been on that stage, as Nader should have been on the first debate stage. These men are presidential candidates with positions that are different from the other two. They actually REPRESENT REALITY.

Second, the audience should be gone. Instead, this should be done in a studio and each candidate should be allowed to pick a panel of 4 to 8 people and be subjected to cross examination. Perhaps each candidate could select their own panel of cross examiners.

Third, the "debate" should be limited to ONE TOPIC. Candidates should be warned that if they stray from the topic that they will be stopped and fined time in future answers.

What we have now and have had for many years is not a "debate" in the least. It's a dog and pony show.

Pure garbage, just another opportunity for the 24 hour cable news people to rattle their heads and wag their tongues about nothing.

Pfffffft.

-Wexler

I agree with you on that front Wexler.

Political campaigns aren't about the issues anymore. Everyone just spews forth some prewritten gibberish designed to sound impressive and win votes.

Answers are as vague as horoscopes or tarot card readings.

But its also beacuse tehre are just too many ill informed, happy to be so, voting Americans. Politicians don't need to give definitive answers to definitive problems. Just smile and wave boys and girl, smile and wave.

Previously, Palin's empty-headedness was shown to me only through sound bytes and SNL sketches. I watched the whole debate, and I have to say that she proved herself to be nothing but an airhead. Not only did she ignore every question, she'd jump from talking-point to talking-point willy-nilly. She said things like "I want to get back to energy," when energy hadn't even been a topic yet at all!

This woman is scary. If McCain were president and I had a job as Palin's secret service agent, I'd have my gun at the ready in case he had a heart attack.

I love it. Please raise your hand if you think making your boss POOR will secure your job. The dems go Arnold horshack on the subject.

Getting even for bad things in your life is not a reason to vote.

Maybe you should understand that forcing banks to give money to people who can't pay it back by FORCE of Democrats means they NOW can't loan money to people who create jobs.

My god Bill Clinton just said Democrats are wrong on this just 5 days ago. Or is Bill lieing when he says the Repubs are right.

Given who is at the TOP of the Dem ticket, I wouldn't be so smug about kids playing at reality TV shows. At least Sarah Palin didn't make up a fake Presidential seal for herself.

What Debate?
The Beauty Queen never answered a Question!

Sound familiar?
Another scripted news conference.
Sounds like Propaganda to me.
Put a Bobbin Head Doll on stage and
Joe Six Pack goes wild.
Yogi, she is brighter then the average Bear!
It’s my way or the Highway, Palin chirped!
I’ll just read Propaganda from Carl’s script.
After 8 Years of complete, utter Incompetence and Failure,
They want to sell you:
Four More Years!
What Gall!
She just stood there and spewed BU__! SH__!
All over everyone watching!
America takes it in the face again and the FAUX MEDIA Talking Heads covered it up.
So much for, truth and honesty in Politics.
Today, you get:
The same old Republican BU__! SH__!
Palin speaks with a forked tongue!
All she spoke were lies and what she'll do, is far worse.
The Highway Robbery,
Failed policies and Broken promises of The BUSH Abomination are effecting us all.
To the detriment of families everywhere.
A trail of tears follows BUSH where ever he goes
It’s time for a Change.
Help, save America now.
VOTE Bush/McCain OUT!

I'd say that most people already had made up theit minds before they weatched the debates, and therefore really didn't listen.

I think Palin did a great job, she managed to come back quickly and as far as answering questions and she was sure not to be "directed" by a biased moderator.

Biden did well also, however he put to much blame on the Bush administratin for the current economic crisis while if yo look back at the record it was republicans that were trying to warn about the Freddie and Fannie. McCain tried to do something about it himself years ago.

The truth is out there if you look it up.

to Ron Boyd:

Obama never voted against the war, he was not in the Senate at that time. That, of couse, does not detract from the fact that he most certainly was a vocal opponent leading up to the war.

Low expectations are the only reason someone would think Palin did well.

Did anyone else notice how when Palin diverted attention away from the question asked back to her scripted material, she looked like a poorly built animatronic device being switched on?

It seemed every time the discussion switched to an area Palin was not informed on (which was quite often) her mind went, click, her eyes lost focus, and she regurgitated her scripted material.

what is stunning is that you keep patting yourselves on the back oh yeah, she didn't know all the facts. Seems to me since she hasn't spent the last 36years (or there about) in Congress it's not such a surprise that she might not have the wealth of information of someone who was- Biden. Clearly tho, even with those decades he still got it wrong. but more to the point- it takes more than rote knowledge to make a leader, it takes courage, strength, wisedom, strong character those are the basics and ones inherent in Sarah Palin as she clearly proved last night. Those qualities will enrich her grasp of your facts as time goes on, a strong foundation and clearly lacking in the Dem's choice for President. A beginning of a truly remarkable woman, one of true grit and honestly....I'll take that any day.

OMG. I could barely sit in my chair during the "debate"--her grating voice and folksy mannerisms (wink, wink...smile, smile..did she do the old pageant trick of putting vaseline on her teeth so her lips wouldn't dry out with the perpetual grin?) and absolutely no real answers to the questions that she decided she wouldn't answer? SORRY---in my opinion she lost big time. Of course, no one ever went broke by betting against the intelligence of the American public. Didn't someone once say something to that effect? All I kept thinking about was Tina Fey's impersonation on SNL when asked "Did you know that when cornered, you become incredibly cute?" and she became the kittenish, cutesy "pow, pow!" person. Let's hope that the American public will surprise us all and not buy this pig in a poke, lipstick or not, of a Republican ticket. As an intelligent woman (I think) I kept wishing that Hillary Clinton was up there against her, but, y'know, good ol' Joe did a fine job--not too overbearing, not too condescending, just right. Good job, Joe Biden! You really showed your command of the questions while Palin floundered around with her four or five talking points, i.e. raising taxes, white flag, maverick, hockey mom just like you, energy.....no matter what the question was, just keep plugging on with your talking points. Biden won on substance, as if the American public really cared. Palin "won" by not making a total fool of herself....is that what we want in the White House? God, it's freaking scarey.

I understand the context, but still, Palin blessed the hearts of the CEO's of big oil. "Exxon-Mobile, Conoco-Phillips, bless their hearts". This just struck me because bless their hearts is an expression used for someone who is clueless, socially inept or just plain stupid. It is not an expression normally used about a person in a position of power or authority. It's something that is said to justify a shot you are about to take at someone who is helpless to defend themselves and to make that insult more palatable. Is she concerned about offending big oil that she has to soften the blow? Or does she think they are unable to help themselves?

And where is the evidence that they have hearts in need of blessing?

I would love to see an Obama ad showing the long lines in the south, the $3 plus gas prices, the oil companies record profit defences and her voice over all, blessing their hearts.

The Democrats just do not GET Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin is not on the ticket to set policy. That is the President's job. In a debate against a senator with 26+ years in congress, of course she is going to look short on answers. Biden has that stuff at his fingertips.
Palin brings the conservative principle in, and a character that gets involved, is direct, and intelligent and willing to learn and improve, without political double dealing. There is a reason she is successful, one perhaps people do not understand anymore - she has a strength of character and clear vision that cannot be bought.
You don't understand Palin because there isn't anything like her on the Democrat stage. She isn't full of shit.

If Joe had said over and over again that Obama had voted against the war he would have been lying. He was not in the Senate. If he had been he would have voted FOR the war just like Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, and Biden. Giving a speech is Obama's thing - voting against the tide is NOT.

Kudos to Sarah Palin's debate prep team. She finally learned how to answer and deliver a speech without going off the rails. The downside of the whole episode is that she did not answer a lot of questions that were asked based on specific points. On bashing Barack Obama she brought up too many points that have been debunked already. The subject of energy was her safe haven.

Despite all of this, I still feel cheated out of a real debate. It was totally dumbed down and her answers harkened back to her beauty pageant days. As a woman I still find her selection as a running mate insulting. I Am more intelligent that this, John McCain.

Kudos to Joe Biden for not tripping up. He handled himself very well and was masterful at defending Barack Obama's record and highlighting the non-Maverick McCain. Now let's shift focus back on the presidential contenders.

The reason he did not say it is because it's not true. Barack Obama was not in the senate at the time and therefore could not vote. He did, however, make an important speech arguing against going to war and has been praised for his judgment and insight on the matter. He could have talked about that, but not about voting against it because that didn't happen.

Dave, buddy, you and mother jones wanted to see Sarah Pailin bomb last night. she didnt, so you pull twist and dodge tricks with the facts so you can make it LOOK like she bombed. Great journalism.

I disagree with those who say she didn't look like a ninny. All that winking and those cutesy "you betcha" comments must have caused other professional women to cringe in embarrassment as I did. Any woman who has worked in almost any capacity in this world knows that if she ever acted like that she'd be a laughingstock. Sarah Palin is not a serious person and as a woman I find her style ridiculous.

I don't think Palin's performance in the debate will leave SNL hand wringing today about what to do with Tina Fey Saturday night. Some Republicans have suggested that SNL will have to fire Tina Fey now that Palin has proven she can speak in complete sentences.

There is plenty of material from the debate that SNL can use:

Palin's constant winking--who were those wink intended for?

Palin's blatant disrespect for the moderator by ignoring her questions. When asked a question, Palin switched the topic to energy and the moderator let her get away with it. If Palin had responded to Couric's question about Supreme Court cases with "I want to talk about Energy", Couric would not have let that happen.

Palin's annoying smirky smile that was plastered on her face even after Biden choked up. She was oblivious and insensitive--almost as if she had triple doses of anti-depressants.

Palin's determination to increase the power of the Vice President. The comments she made along with calling McCain her running mate shows she has little if any respect for rules or laws (troopergate,etc )and it is her way or nothing (just like Bush).

Palin's neocon remarks about Iran and Israel. Most likely it was Lieberman who coached her on foreign policy. No doubt the McCain/Palin ticket will bring us more wars.

I did not think Palin performed well in the debate--I think she was able to avoid answering tough questions and only spoke on subjects she had rehearsed in her tutoring sessions.

The fact is the interviews with Couric and Gibson did happen--she was exposed and the debate cannot make those interviews disappear. The fact that the moderator allowed Palin to get away with avoiding the questions was a failure on the moderator's part. I found Palin's folksy talk, winks, and sarcasm very condesending. I don't think women will appreciate it--many will feel she is talking down to them and find her embarrasing. I did.

Corn says: The debate, in a way, was a contest between a policy-person and a people-person.

Exactly. Great point. And this is really frustrating because this is such an important election. We need to be talking about the issues, but McCain sees opportunity only in pushing character narratives.

And this needs to be called out more. McCain shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

They BOTH bombed last night.

Neither candidate told us anything about anything.

The PDC is a fool's game designed for sound bites.

Arguing over who "won" or "lost" last night is like arguing over who won the f*cktard tossing event at the Special Olympics.

YOU lost.

-Wexler

Not a single mention from the OP on JOE BIDEN’S 14 LIES TONIGHT

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

I'm sure you have documentation for all of those 14 points.

Why don't you POST it?

-Wexler

FactChecking Biden-Palin Debate
October 3, 2008
The candidates were not 100 percent accurate. To say the least.
Summary
Biden and Palin debated, and both mangled some facts.

Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.
Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.

Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.
Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.
Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.

Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.

For full details on these misstatements, and on additional factual disputes and dubious claims, please read on to the Analysis section.

Analysis
Vice presidential candidates Joe Biden and Sarah Palin met for their one and only debate Oct. 2 in St. Louis, Missouri. The event was broadcast nationally. Gwen Ifill of PBS was the debate moderator.

We noted the following:

Palin Trips Up on Troop Levels

Palin got her numbers wrong on troop levels when she said "and with the surge that has worked, we're now down to pre-surge numbers in Iraq."

The surge was announced in January 2007, at which point there were 132,000 troops in Iraq, according to the Brookings Institute Iraq Index. As of September 2008, that number was 146,000. President Bush recently announced that another 8,000 would be coming home by February of next year. But even then, there still would be 6,000 more troops in Iraq than there were when the surge began.

Biden Fudges on Troop Funding

Biden defended Obama's vote against a troop-funding bill, claiming that McCain voted "the exact same way."

Palin: Barack Obama voted against funding troops there after promising that he would not do so…He turned around under political pressure and he voted against funding the troops. ...

Biden: John McCain voted the exact same way. John McCain voted against
funding the troops because of an amendment he voted against had a timeline
in it to draw down American troops. And John said I'm not going to fund
the troops if in fact there's a time line.

As we've pointed out before, the squabble refers to a pair of 2007 votes on war funding. Obama voted for a version of the bill that included language calling for withdrawing troops from Iraq. Biden is simply wrong to say that McCain voted against that bill; he was absent and didn’t vote at all. McCain did oppose the bill, and he urged President Bush to veto it. Bush did. Obama then voted against the same bill without withdrawal language. He had voted yes on at least 10 other war funding bills prior to that single 2007 no vote.

Palin's False Tax Claims

Palin repeated a false claim about Barack Obama's tax proposal:

Palin: Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year. That's a lot of middle income average American families to increase taxes on them. I think that is the way to kill jobs and to continue to harm our economy.

Obama did not in fact vote to increase taxes on "families" making as little as $42,000 per year. What Obama actually voted for was a budget resolution that called for returning the 25 percent tax bracket to its pre-Bush tax cut level of 28 percent. That could have affected an individual with no children making as little as $42,000. But a couple would have had to earn $83,000 to be affected and a family of four at least $90,000. The resolution would not have raised taxes on its own, without additional legislation, and, as we've noted before, there is no such tax increase in Obama's tax plan. (The vote took place on March 14 of this year, not last year as Palin said.)

Palin also repeated the exaggeration that Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes. That number includes seven votes that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on corporations or affluent individuals; 23 votes that were against tax cuts; and 17 that came on just 7 different bills. She also claimed that Biden and Obama voted for "the largest tax increase in history." Palin is referring here to the Democrats' 2008 budget proposal, which would indeed have resulted in about $217 billion in higher taxes over two years. That's a significant increase. But measured as a percentage of the nation's economic output, or gross domestic product, the yardstick that most economists prefer, the 2008 budget proposal would have been the third-largest since 1968, and it's not even in the top 10 since 1940.

Biden's False Defense

Biden denied that Obama supported increasing taxes for families making $42,000 a year – but then falsely claimed that McCain had cast an identical vote.

Biden: Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way. It was a budget procedural vote. John McCain voted the same way. It did not raise taxes.
Biden was correct only to the extent that the resolution Obama supported would not by itself have increased taxes; it was a vote on a budget resolution that set revenue and spending targets. But he's wrong to say McCain voted the same way. The Obama campaign attempted to justify Biden's remark by pointing to a different vote, on a Senate amendment, that took place March 13. The amendment passed 99-1, with only Democratic Sen. Russ Feingold dissenting. It would have preserved some of Bush's tax cuts for lower-income people. The vote on the budget resolution in question, however, came in the wee hours of March 14 and was a mostly party-line tally, 51-44, with Obama in favor and McCain not voting.

Palin's Health Care Hooey

Palin claimed that McCain's health care plan would be "budget-neutral," costing the government nothing.

Palin: He's proposing a $5,000 tax credit for families so that they can get out there and they can purchase their own health care coverage. That's a smart thing to do. That's budget neutral. That doesn't cost the government anything ... a $5,000 health care credit through our income tax, that's budget neutral.

The McCain campaign hasn't released an estimate of how much the plan would cost, but independent experts contradict Palin's claim of a cost-free program.

The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan, which at its peak would cover 5 million of the uninsured, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years. Obama's plan, which would cover 34 million of the uninsured, would cost $1.6 trillion over that time period.

The nonpartisan U.S. Budget Watch's fiscal voter guide estimates that McCain's tax credit would increase the deficit by somewhere between $288 billion to $364 billion by the year 2013, and that making employer health benefits taxable would bring in between $201 billion to $274 billion in revenue. That nets out to a shortfall of somewhere between $14 billion to $163 billion – for that year alone.

Palin also said that Obama’s plan would be "universal government run" health care and that health care would be "taken over by the feds." That's not the case at all. As we’ve said before, Obama’s plan would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. It would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care.

McCain in Spain?

Biden said that McCain had refused to meet with the government of Spain,
but McCain made no such definite statement.

Biden: The last point I'll make, John McCain said as recently as a couple of weeks ago he wouldn't even sit down with the government of Spain, a NATO ally that has troops in Afghanistan with us now. I find that incredible.

In a September 17 interview on Radio Caracol Miami, McCain appeared confused when asked whether he would meet with President Zapatero of Spain. He responded that "I would be willing to meet with those leaders who are our friends and want to work with us in a cooperative fashion," but then started talking about leaders in Latin America. He did not commit to meeting with Zapatero, but it wasn't clear he'd understood the question.

But the McCain campaign denied that their candidate was confused.
According to our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, campaign adviser Randy Scheunemann e-mailed CNN and the Washington Post the next day, saying that McCain's reluctance to commit to a meeting with Zapatero was a policy decision.

Scheunemann, September 2008: The questioner asked several times about Senator McCain's willingness to meet Zapatero — and id'd him in the question so there is no doubt Senator McCain knew exactly to whom the question referred. Senator McCain refused to commit to a White House meeting with President Zapatero in this interview.

That's not a refusal to meet with Zapatero, as Biden said. It's simply a refusal to commit himself one way or the other.

Palin's Small Business Balderdash

Palin repeated a falsehood that the McCain campaign has peddled, off and on, for some time:

Palin: But when you talk about Barack's plan to tax increase affecting only those making $250,000 a year or more, you're forgetting millions of small businesses that are going to fit into that category. So they're going to be the ones paying higher taxes thus resulting in fewer jobs being created and less productivity.

As we reported June 23, it's simply untrue that "millions" of small business owners will pay higher federal income taxes under Obama's proposal. According to an analysis by the independent Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, several hundred thousand small business owners, at most, would have incomes high enough to be affected by the higher rates on income, capital gains and dividends that Obama proposes. That counts as "small business owners" even those who merely have some sideline income from such endeavors as freelance writing, speaking or running rental properties, and who get the bulk of their income from employment elsewhere.

Defense Disagreements

Biden and Palin got into a tussle about military recommendations in Afghanistan:

Biden: The fact is that our commanding general in Afghanistan said today that a surge – the surge principles used in Iraq will not – well, let me say this again now – our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan, not Joe Biden, our commanding general in Afghanistan. He said we need more troops. We need government-building. We need to spend more money on the infrastructure in Afghanistan.

Palin: Well, first, McClellan did not say definitively the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. Certainly, accounting for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different. We have NATO allies helping us for one, and even the geographic differences are huge but the counterinsurgency principles could work in Afghanistan. McClellan didn't say anything opposite of that. The counterinsurgency strategy going into Afghanistan, clearing, holding, rebuilding, the civil society and the infrastructure can work in Afghanistan.

Point Biden. To start, Palin got newly appointed Gen. David D. McKiernan's name wrong when she called him McClellan. And, more important, Gen. McKiernan clearly did say that surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. As the Washington Post reported:

Washington Post: "The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge,' " McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a "sustained commitment" to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.

However, it is worth noting that McKiernan also said that Afghanistan would need an infusion of American troops "as quickly as possible."

Killing Afghan Civilians?

Palin said that Obama had accused American troops of doing nothing but killing civilians, a claim she called "reckless" and "untrue."

Palin: Now, Barack Obama had said that all we're doing in Afghanistan is air-raiding villages and killing civilians. And such a reckless, reckless comment and untrue comment, again, hurts our cause.

Obama did say that troops in Afghanistan were killing civilians. Here’s the whole quote, from a campaign stop in New Hampshire:

Obama (August 2007): We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.

The Associated Press fact-checked this one, and found that in fact U.S troops were killing more civilians at the time than insurgents: "As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can’t be attributed to one party." Afghan President Hamid Karzai had expressed concern about these civilian killings, a concern President Bush said he shared.

Whether Obama said that this was "all we're doing" is debatable. He said that we need to have enough troops so that we're "not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians," but did not say that troops are doing nothing else.

Out of Context?

Biden claimed a comment he made about "clean coal" was taken out of context:

Biden: My record for 25 years has supported clean coal technology. A comment made in a rope line was taken out of context. I was talking about exporting that technology to China so when they burn their dirty coal, it won't be as dirty, it will be clean.

Was it really taken out of context? Here’s the full exchange, which took place while Biden was shaking hands with voters along a rope line in Ohio.

Woman: Wind and solar are flourishing here in Ohio, why are you supporting clean coal?
Biden: We’re not supporting clean coal. Guess what? China’s building two every week, two dirty coal plants, and it’s polluting the United States. It’s causing people to die.

Obama-Biden campaign spokesman David Wade later said that “Biden’s point is that China is building coal plants with outdated technology every day, and the United States needs to lead by developing clean coal technologies.”

Whatever Biden meant or didn’t mean to say on the rope line, he has supported clean coal in the past. When the McCain camp used this one remark from Biden as the basis for a TV ad saying that Obama-Biden oppose clean coal, we said the claim was false. Obama’s position in favor of clean coal has been clear, and pushing for the technology has been part of his energy policy.

McCain in the Vanguard of Mortgage Reform?

Palin said that McCain had sounded the alarm on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago.

Palin: We need to look back, even two years ago, and we need to be appreciative of John McCain's call for reform with Fannie Mae, with Freddie Mac, with the mortgage-lenders, too, who were starting to really kind of rear that head of abuse.

Palin is referring to a bill that would have increased oversight on Fannie and Freddie. In our recent article about assigning blame for the crisis, we found that by the time McCain added his name to the bill as a cosponsor, the collapse was well underway. Home prices began falling only two months later. Our colleagues at PolitiFact also questioned this claim.

And There's More...

A few other misleads of note:

Palin said, "We're circulating about $700 billion a year into foreign countries" for imported oil, repeating an outdated figure often used by McCain. At oil prices current as of Sept. 30, imports are running at a rate of about $493 billion per year.

Biden claimed that McCain said in a magazine article that he wanted to deregulate the health care industry as the banking industry had been. That’s taking McCain’s words out of context. As we’ve said before, he was talking specifically about his proposal to allow the sale of health insurance across state lines.

Biden said five times that McCain's tax plan would give oil companies a "$4 billion tax cut." As we’ve noted previously, McCain’s plan would cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent — for ALL corporations, not just oil companies. Biden uses a Democratic think tank's estimate for what the rate change is worth to the five largest U.S. oil companies.

Palin threw out an old canard when she criticized Obama for voting for the 2005 energy bill and said, “that’s what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks.” It’s a false attack Sen. Hillary Clinton used against Obama in the primary, and McCain himself has hurled. It’s true that the bill gave some tax breaks to oil companies, but it also took away others. And according to the Congressional Research Service, the bill created a slight net increase in taxes for the oil industry.

Biden said that Iraq had an "$80 billion surplus." The country was once projected to have as much as a $79 billion surplus, but no more. The Iraqis have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year, as we noted when Obama used the incorrect figure. A $21 billion supplemental spending bill, passed by the Iraqi legislature in August, knocked down the old projection.

Biden said four times that McCain had voted 20 times against funding alternative energy. However, in analyzing the Obama campaign's list of votes after the first presidential debate, we found the number was actually 11. In the other instances the Obama-Biden campaign cites, McCain voted not against alternative energy but against mandatory use of alternative energy, or he voted in favor of allowing exemptions from these mandates.

-by Brooks Jackson, Viveca Novak, Lori Robertson, Joe Miller, Jessica Henig and Justin Bank

Correction Oct. 3: In the summary of this story we originally referred to the "president" of Spain. Biden actually used the word "government" and we have corrected the reference.

Sources
Belasco, Amy. "The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War on Terror Operations Since 9/11." 14 July 2008. Congressional Research Service. Accessed 2 October 2008.

Pickler, Nedra. "Fact Check: Obama on Afghanistan." The Associated Press. 14 Aug. 2007.

Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. "Promises, Promises: A Fiscal Voter Guide to the 2008 Election." U.S. Budget Watch. 29 Aug. 2008.

Williams, Roberton and Howard Gleckman. "An Updated Analysis of the 2008 Presidential Candidates' Tax Plans." Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. 15 Sep. 2008.

"Impacts of Increased Access to Oil and Natural Gas Resources in the Lower 48 Federal Outer Continental Shelf." 2007. Energy Information Administration. 8 Aug. 2008.

Petroleum Basic Statistics. The Energy Information Administration, 3 Oct. 2008.

NPC Global Oil & Gas Study. “Topic Paper #7, Global Access to Oil and Gas,” 18 July 2007.

Clarke, David and Liriel Higa, "Blueprints Gain Narrow Adoption," Congressional Quarterly Weekly, 15 March 2008.

"Iraq Index," Brookings Iraq Index.

Baldor, Lolita C, "General: Urgent need for troops in Afghanistan now," Associated Press. 2 Oct 2008.

"Bush: 8,000 Troops Coming Home By Feb," CBS/AP. 9 Sept 2008.

Tyson, Ann Scott, "Commander in Afghanistan Wants More Troops," Washington Post. 2 Oct 2008.

Barnes, Julian N., "More U.S. troops needed in Afghanistan 'quickly,' general says," Los Angeles Times. 2 Oct 2008.

Table T08-0164 "Distribution of Tax Units with Business Income by Statutory Marginal Tax Rate, Assuming Extension and Indexation of the 2007 AMT Patch, 2009" Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, 20 May 2008.
Related Articles

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/fa...lin_debate.html

We will never have victory in Iraq. We lost when Shock and Awe tragically began, when our invasion and occupation of the unfortunate Iraqi people bankrupted us and ruined our reputation. If McCain wins, the world will not soon forget.

For people looking for substantive responses to the questions asked, it was obvious Palin was out of her depth. She didn't look or sound out of her depth the way she did when Katie Couric and Charley Gibson pressed her on answers she gave that didn't answer the question asked. Gwen Ifill evidently wouldn't or wasn't allowed to press Palin on non-responsive answers. But to people familiar with the issues who were looking for some substance, Palin gave them nothing but canned conservative sound-bites. I believe that will show up in the polls of undecideds who were looking for answers. I think those undecideds are going to give Palin a failing grade.

For people looking for substantive responses to the questions asked, it was obvious Palin was out of her depth. She didn't look or sound out of her depth the way she did when Katie Couric and Charley Gibson pressed her on answers she gave that didn't answer the question asked. Gwen Ifill evidently wouldn't or wasn't allowed to press Palin on non-responsive answers. But to people familiar with the issues who were looking for some substance, Palin gave them nothing but canned conservative sound-bites. I believe that will show up in the polls of undecideds who were looking for answers. I think those undecideds are going to give Palin a failing grade.

Thank you for mentioning this. As someone with a graduate degree working on a professional degree, I must say she made me feel physically ill with the "cutesy" BS. It is insulting to me. If Biden had dodged those questions pundits would be in an uproar. It seemed like she was speaking really quickly to vomit it all out before she forgot it. Kinda like when you cram and have to write it all down on the back of your exam before your mind blanks out.

What a crybaby Joey is!

Where did he plagiarize the idea to cry during the debate?

Perhaps Hillary?

LOL!

Biden did not say Obama voted against the war because Obama NEVER voted against the war, plain and simple. Funny how some base their trust in a candidate on some claim with no foundation in reality...

"A beginning of a truly remarkable woman, one of true grit and honestly....I'll take that any day."

Than let her come back again, in about 8 years.

"Where did he plagiarize the idea to cry during the debate?"

Wow, you are some piece of work. The man was talking about losing his wife and child, and, almost, losing his other 2 children.

Bob C, from what I understand the McCain campaign negotiated for a 'lighter than usual debate' for Sarah Palin. As a result Joe Biden also had to dumb down his rhetoric a bit to also appeal to the same voters Palin has been targeting. I still assert that we were cheated out of a real debate.

Palin..."stuck to well-crafted talking points, recited them with passion and conviction,"

And anyone in these debates doesn't? Of course, depending on which side one is on, they are either talking points or dew from the lips of God.

Joe did fine. Palin showed the rest of the country that a governor of Alaska can be a VP. Very big of the rest of the country.

Come on, David. You can't think Palin was actually good. Perhaps she was effective, because most voters don't think very much. Two points:
1. She insulted Gwen Ifill by basically saying early on that she would not answer questions and that she would say what she pleased. By the way, I took that as a personal insult, that she doesn't care enough about our country to answer questions from a prominent journalist (again).
2. She wants to expand on the extra-constitutional powers Cheney has assumed?
I don't defend Biden, but he only obfuscated in the most conventional way, Palin ditched the whole process and tried to turn it into a tape loop for her sound bites.

When will Sarah Palin release her Tax Returns

It takes more than a smile and a wink to get my vote.

It takes more than a smile and a wink to get my vote.

Me too.

Got to at least have a nice butt and a good pair of legs.

does 'people person' now mean 'hollow shell'?

Frank Steinsvik observes:
Biden did not say Obama voted against the war because Obama NEVER voted against the war, plain and simple. Funny how some base their trust in a candidate on some claim with no foundation in reality...

Anyone willing to do 2 minutes of research would discover that after running a Senate campaign that stated "At some point you've got to stand up to George Bush and say NO on funding his war", Obama has yet to say NO on one thin dime of funding for George Bush's war.

It's been "Yea" on every war funding bill to come through the legislative pork-pipe.

I'm sure many don't want to hear about that sticky little fact while they're eating up BHO promises, and convincing themselves that Obama is The Anti-War Guy (who just happens to think we should be even more deeply mired in combat operations in Afghanistan, and probably expand them into Pakistan, too).

You want more foreign war?
This presidential race offers you two candidates who are with you on that.

If you don't, then you'd best be considering McKinney, Barr or Nader, because they're the ones clearly and unequivocally opposed to our current, interventionist policies.

We got winked at and "maverick"ed repeatedly.
Palin recalled to my mind "confabulation", talking clearly and earnestly without content. Common with people with dementia and some forms of mental illness. They can speak intelligently but if you pay attention you realize that there is no content -- only words and phrases.

What was left out here were all the mis-statements by Biden which only FOXNEWS has challenged. Guess when Biden talks the MSM takes his words as the gospel of the day.

Palin won this and most likely would do even better against Biden in a rematch and would slaughter Obama head to head. Love to see that one!

America is the real winner here as they saw an unedited and uncut version of Plain. The message here is clear...no taped interviews. Especially with ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I did watch the whole painful Palin debate and I would just like to know why she was winking at the audience. Did she think that the 'cutesy homecoming queen' look was what the American people were looking for. We have nothing in common, she and I. I have been a working mother of five. I have yet to clear $50,000 after 24 years of teaching and I don't really want to get my rewards "in heaven" as she suggested. Come on America, let's get some real answers. It is not Miss Congeniality contest, Palin.

Sarah Palin is truly a professional politician. Only a politician could fill up a ninety minute debate with glib nonsense. She did not answer one question with anything substantial. Knowing that if Joe Biden said anything the least bit dismissive of her, he would be branded as sexist, condescending, or patronizing. She constantly made snide remarks to and about Joe Biden without fear that he could treat her the same way. At the risk of my being branded sexist, condescending, patronizing, or dismissive Sarah Palin is just like John McCain - truly an annoying slime ball.

Abraham Lincoln said: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. “

Sarah Palin has removed ALL DOUBT for ALL TIME!!!!!!!

Sarah Palin is truly a professional politician. Only a politician could fill up a ninety minute debate with glib nonsense. She did not answer one question with anything substantial. Knowing that if Joe Biden said anything the least bit dismissive of her, he would be branded as sexist, condescending, or patronizing. She constantly made snide remarks to and about Joe Biden without fear that he could treat her the same way. At the risk of my being branded sexist, condescending, patronizing, or dismissive Sarah Palin is just like John McCain - truly an annoying slime ball.

Abraham Lincoln said: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. “

Sarah Palin has removed ALL DOUBT for ALL TIME!!!!!!!

The debate (I use the term in it loosest sense) was a made for TV event with the participants setting the rules. Might be good for the candiates but worthless for WeThePeople.

Whoa!!!! Several posts back 2 {or maybe more) people made an issue of how many times Governor Palin said "also".
Am I missing something?
What the hell difference does that make?

Good ole Billy Beers, profiled Obama supporter easily done by his comments.

Love the way this level of bloggers wallow in the the gutters and sewers of Chicago politics.

Ace,

What is your favorite part about Palin not being "full of shit"? Is it that she lies so freely (bridge to nowhere), gives the finger to the law (troopergate subpoenas), Distorts facts as if nobody's listening, now has the lowest polling numbers she's ever had in her own state? The list seems to grow with her every action. Words are useless, look up the facts.

The 2 Vice-nominee's of the DC Money Party, arguing away and laboring to find snippets of disagreement, is all down to policy over narrative.

Sad, really. Biden's selection reveals how far the Dem's will go to avoid anything else but the same old, same old foreign interventionist, prime-that-Pentagon-pump-as-solution-to-economic-woes saw.

Just to underline their point, the Money Party foists a bailout package to pay off their pals' debts (decorated with tasty earmarks), transferring their debt onto OUR backs.

Meanwhile, the Money Party ciphers fritter away their debate-time juggling softball questions before November 4, and silently DARE us to throw them out.

As a third-party voter: I don't have any problems seeing the total hypocrisy of the electoral pageants. After all, it was the two major political parties who shut out third party debates, back in 1988.

"Democratic," indeed....

Because Barack Obama didn't vote against the war. He wasn't in the U.S. Senate in 2003.

Now, my turn.

When exactly did the U.S. and France push Hezbollah out of Lebanon, Senator Biden? Put more succinctly, what the hell were you talking about?

Biden said FDR went on TV before there was tv.
Obama said he has campaigned in 57 of the 58 states. He also said as President he'll be dealing with foreign leaders for 10 or 12 years.
But Sarah Palin is an idiot, right?

One other thing never mentioned. McCain is not a natural born citizen and ineligible to be president under the constitution unless Bush did a signing statement or something.

"Debates" are funny in that they produce about as many winners as there were watchers. Anyone who heard what he/she wanted to can declare the winner. How in hell anyone thinks Sarah said anything in particular that she herself might understand and recall... be my guest, try diagramming one of those serial run-on sentences. Sure couldn't recall promises; surely not keep them.

That was the work of a master kaffeeklatcher, and it doesn't belong anywhere in serious government. Alaska Governor? Big deal. Population there is about the size of South Chicago, and mostly rednecks. And remember, it is President of the U.S.A. that she's running for.

Lot of good comments. I think Palin parroted a lot what she was coached at, and avoided by changing the subject. The cutesy, down home part was a little annoying, but one thing has not been brought....ok Joe..right Joe well now Joe ... vs Govenor Palin......Govenor Palin.....I think there was little respect coming from Sarah Palin to Sen. Biden in favor of "down home talk..?"

William, you are a man after my own heart. Do you think anyone is listening?

It will take one hell of a lot more than a vagina to get my vote! Anyone who thinks Palin did well should teach my tenth grade class one day, they'll realize that my tenth graders can do hell of a lot more than she did. Evading questions under the pretense that she doesn't have to answer the questions the moderator asks shows she doesn't even know what a debate is, it is not an informal chat, it is a well thought out argument over a given topic, not one of her choosing. get real!

So you too gargle drano !

Obviously, this was not a debate but rather a mainstream circle jerk aimed at the American simpleton.

Gwen Ifill is obviously dead from the neck up and David Corn's post held me for about a paragraph.

anotherview writes:
Good ole Billy Beers, profiled Obama supporter easily done by his comments.
Love the way this level of bloggers wallow in the the gutters and sewers of Chicago politics.

Laughably wrong, 'view!

I'm voting for Change this election, alright, but it won't be just a slogan, because it won't be for either P.O.S. from either wing of our single ruling party.

Bob Barr is getting my vote in the Prez race.

What "this level" of blogger was attempting is usually recognizable to those who are not Humor-Challenged.
'Billy Beer', itself, is a joke.
Anyone old enough to have been drinking age during Carter's administration could tell you that.

As to Chicago, I've been there more than a few times, and what I can tell you is that This Hoosier gets queasy just about the time I hit the Cook County line.

It will take one hell of a lot more than a vagina to get my vote!

Absolutely!!

Nothing but the correct Party Label will do!

Um, David. Palin used the word "Maverick" four times. Biden used it eight times. I counted.

There is obviously nothing wrong with using the word "also"--but in the case of Palin's debate performance, her extraordinary reliance on the word is symptomatic of 1) her "folksy style" [not a problem] and 2) her inability to answer a question directly and intelligently [big problem].

It really bothers me that what most commentators, including this one, are talking about post-debate is Palin and McCain. No, she did not make a fool of herself, as she has in previous TV interviews. But since she didn't say much of anything substantive, and Biden said a LOT that was substantive, and since the country is going to hell in a handbasket, could we now all agree that Sarah Palin wasn't as embarrassing as many of us in both parties expected her to be and get back to the issues?

I watched the debate from a safe distance, in Norway. Biden was clearly the winner, armed with facts, all sorts of support to back himself up with (lots of statistics, for example). He was brilliant. Palin skirted around the questions, relied on her folksiness. At times she didn't even understand the questions and prattled on about something off-topic. Palin is thick, no question about it. She lacks focus and insight. This is a person who, you will recall, attended FIVE colleges to get a four-year bachelor's degree. Her past does not bode well for her future.

Palin: Brown shirt clone with canned responses with a mix of Nazi propaganda-"the"Big Lie", McCarthyism, and adolescence.

You really don't understand
Sarah Palin's appeal to millions
who have been betrayed by
Washington politicians and want
nothing more than to cast their own vote against all of them. Their lives have been desroyed by Congress and the President.
Her life is her selling point, not her words.http://www.counterpunch.org/conn10012008.html

Yet McCain must've been aware of the many thousands of dollars his campaign manager was making, for years and straight through this past summer, as a lobbyist for FreddieMac.

Just one thing he's responsible for - the Violence Against Women legislation which is very important for women. Don't be an idiot - do some research before saying stupid things.

She hasn't even shown that she's at all interested in events outside of Alaska.

Running for President/Vice President is asking for the faith and trust of the American People -- and the offices should be treated with the utmost respect and solemnity.

We are in deep trouble (foreign policy, energy policy, monetary and financial policy, healthcare, education) thanks to the stupidity of the past twenty-something years of half-baked, failed policies in Washington, DC.

This race is not supposed to be a you-betcha by golly chat, talkin' directly with the folks in America, with shout-outs to the family -- how in the hell does this pass for showing us that Palin has the stuff to be Vice President (or, God Forbid, end up as President)? It sickens me that we have set the bar so low that we find Palin's "performance" acceptable given the urgency of finding a president and vice president who are fully qualified for the responsibilities awaiting them. Her resume would have been THROWN OUT if she had been applying for an executive job in any other company in America! I've seen college students with better backgrounds! She can't tell the truth! If she's adequate for Alaska, great -- let her stay there where she can't cause too much trouble "watchin' out for Russians" in her back yard.

You can pick away at what Biden said to see if it is precisely correct in every detail (and yes, there was TV during FDR's time in office), but overall he is knowledgeable, experienced, smart and sincere AND in touch with the middle and working classes in this country.

This ain't high school debate class -- God save us from idiots like Sarah Palin.

The "gee whiz" stuff along with the winking and eye batting are insulting. Talking down to the public so we can all believe she understands us and identifies with us? I hope McCain continues to keep her under wraps. Who needs any more of her? Totally phoney!

I always felt that ALL debates should be on radio............

I always felt that ALL debates should be on radio............

David:
Biden Did make a Big
Mistake!
He said that the U.S. and
France drove Hezbollah out
of Lebanon! When did that
happen? Never!

William - seriously. Is that all you got, buddy?

Donny - Please save us all the pain of your misery. Create a clear message with a point before letting your fingers fly. Much appreciated.

Joe Biden was masterful, professional, and VERY knowledgeable, while Little Miss Folksy reminded me of Ellie Mae from the Beverly Hillbillies with her "shout-outs" and wink-winks. Where's the depth to the Barbie Doll? SHE HAS NONE!

The top-of-the-fold headline I caught walking by the newsstand today said, "Vice Presidential Debate Spirited But Cordial." How progressive.

Palin supports nuclear aggression against Russia and Armageddon in Israel, and Biden is cordial. Style over substance, the progressive mantra.

Palin builds a political career on hate and intolerance, and Biden is polite. To progressives, manners matter most.

People hear, see, and fill their goodie bags (between their ears) with sound-bites from these debate side shows of the items they want to see and hear. What they actually and often take away is something completely different.

Check your goodie-bags people! I think a certain horse in this race crapped in your precious bag of sound bites.

I agree with middleclass that she appeared to be animatronic at times.
She also reminded me of Miss Teen South Carolina at times, when she was unable to formulate complete and understandable answers to the questions that she was so unwilling to answer.

I'd like to see an SNL skit that represents her as a cheerleader at the debates. She stated the obvious and gave cheers for her ticket. "We're gonna stop greed and corruption!" (But how?) We're gonna just like Joe Sixpack!" (Really, how?) "We have the BEST plan for America!" (Please tell us what that is!) "Gooooooooooo Mavericks!"

Dead On Macbunny!

I kept waiting for that "for instance,such as" beauty pageant moment!

To see Palin debating was very painful. When she gave a shout out, I thought I was watching a MTV Award show. What a poor representation of the American Woman.

the more of this garbage i see the more we need ralh nader.

All Palin did was raise the bar for every budding beauty-queen-wannabe for their Q&A segment during the pageant. The question: What do you want to be when you grow up? "Why, Vice President, of course!"

I really had a hard time following most of what Palin said, mainly for the reasons I already posted, but this response to the sub-prime mortage meltdown really irked me. First I am not your average "hockey Mom" and my husband is no "Joe Six Pack" and I really am tired of her referring to the average american in that way. Second I felt a little insulted when she proceed to give me a little lecture on how not to live beyond my means.

"One thing that Americans do at this time, also, though, is let's commit ourselves just every day American people, Joe Six Pack, hockey moms across the nation, I think we need to band together and say never again. Never will we be exploited and taken advantage of again by those who are managing our money and loaning us these dollars. We need to make sure that we demand from the federal government strict oversight of those entities in charge of our investments and our savings and we need also to not get ourselves in debt. Let's do what our parents told us before we probably even got that first credit card. Don't live outside of our means. We need to make sure that as individuals we're taking personal responsibility through all of this. It's not the American peoples fault that the economy is hurting like it is, but we have an opportunity to learn a heck of a lot of good lessons through this and say never again will we be taken advantage of."

Palin, was indeed an embarassment to women. She is clearly shallow, cutesy, and out of her league. Luckily for her she was treated with kid gloves by Ifill and Biden. Palin repeatedly refused to answer the question, or engage in the dialog, preferring for obvious reasons to stick to her well-coached talking points. Her claim that she and McCain stand for women's rights, and her cloying and offensive "shout out to the 3rd graders" put women politicians, and women everywhere back about a century. This was not a PTA meeting, but a national debate for the office of the Vice Presidency. This is a person who could, in a nightmare scenario, have to step in as the President of the United States of America. She is not ready. She is not qualified. She is shallow, dumb, and still a tool for McCain, Rove, Big Oil, Cheney, and she is no friend of America or the American people. She's a good actress successfully playing the part of a snarky but engaging Miss Congeniality, but that is all.

What are we, morons? 8 days of intensive coaching does NOT turn a know-nothing into a suitable candidate to ascend to the Presidency in a crisis! I'm surprised to see MJ buying in to the media personality BS when the Republic has been crashing and burning almost daily. Biden should have shredded her the way Bensten did the last "pretty little cupcake" to aspire to veepdom - Dan Quale. As Mencken has told us "The public is an ass". Stick to the news and issues MJ and leave the soccer mom fluff to Katie Couric.

SNL has plenty of material on Palin. I can hear the skit now. She will be asked a dozen questions and will answer none of them. It will be hilarious and on YOu Tube soon.

Q: blah blah blah economy?

Palin: "Evil, in Paulson's proposal, really I say, we target. I have the need to this, taking shots from that. And as I've on as usual and some decisions that was - Congress not support that invasion of being made."

(generated by)

palinanswers.com

lolololololo

A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one. - Ben Franklin

Barack wasn't in office when the war started!!

There's pictures that maybe Palin was wearing an ear piece
here is the url http://willyloman.wordpress.com/

Once again.. as always... no substance from either party. Same ol crap... I don't want a soccer mom OR a Washington insider to be President. I want a BUSINESSMAN who will kick ass and KNOW what he is doing.

And the Bailout... more crappola... millions in pork, and written by lobbyists. Most of Congress has NO IDEA what they were voting for other than the cliff note versions they reviewed, possibly.

This is a BAD joke on America.

Please, support The FairTax

Very good points... problem with most of America today is the reliance on "sound bites" and "internet spam" for so-called "facts". No one reads or researches to actually find the truth.

Case in point.. I am a strong proponent of the FairTax, and have had numerous people argue with me about it, and from their statements I know immediately if they have ever actually READ anything..like the 2 books that explain it... the answer is always... "NO! But I looked it up at this or that website, for the condensed version". Honest to God... Nobody reads. You all deserve what you all get.

McCain and Palin are REPUBLICANS, not Mavericks. No matter how much they want to call themselves 'outsiders' they are REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS, just as devout as George Bush and Dick Cheney.