Exclusive: Inside Gitmo with Detainee 061
Shortly after German-born Murat Kurnaz arrived at Camp Delta, intelligence reports show the plan was to let him go. What happened?
IT WAS LATE September 2002, and construction crews were just finishing work on the main prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, when three German intelligence agents arrived on the island aboard a U.S. military plane.
The reason for their visit was sensitive. The Pentagon was still arguing that those held at Guantanamo were "the worst of the worst" and "the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the Earth," but behind closed doors CIA officials were coming to the conclusion that a number of detainees had no links to terrorism, and were working on a list of prisoners to be set free.
One of the detainees being considered for release was Murat Kurnaz, a German-born Turkish citizen who had been pulled off a bus in Pakistan the year before and turned over to U.S. forces. Since then, American security agencies hadn't turned up any evidence that he belonged to a terrorist group or posed a threat to the United States. But before clearing his release, the CIA wanted the Germans to interrogate him and offer their stamp of approval.
After they arrived, the agents were led out to a trailer near the dusty sprawl of cell blocks known as Camp Delta. Inside, the air conditioner was on full blast, and Kurnaz, a stocky young man with blunt features and a thick red beard, was seated on one side of a long table, his hands and feet shackled to a ring in the floor. The men took turns questioning him—about the nightclubs he frequented in his wilder years, about his reasons for embracing Islam, about his journey to Pakistan and the heavy boots he bought before leaving—while a hidden camera rolled in the background.
All told, they spent 12 hours with him over two days, concluding by the end that he simply found himself "in the wrong place at the wrong time" and "had nothing to do with terrorism and al-Qaida," according to German intelligence reports.
They discussed their findings with CIA and Pentagon officials, then boarded a plane back to Germany. During a stopover in Washington, D.C., one of the agents visited the local branch of Germany’s foreign intelligence service, the BND, and reported back to headquarters via a secure phone line, saying: "USA considers Murat Kurnaz's innocence to be proven. He should be released in approximately six to eight weeks." A few days later, a Pentagon release form for the detainee was printed and awaiting signature.
"At that point, the picture was clear," says Lothar Jachmann, a retired spy who headed the intelligence-gathering operation on Kurnaz for Germany's domestic intelligence agency, the Office for the Protection of the Constitution, and was briefed on the Guantanamo visit by one of the agents. "We had nothing on him, and we had gotten feedback that the Americans had nothing on him either. The plan was to let him go."
But Kurnaz was not set free. Instead, he spent another four years languishing at Guantanamo, where he was repeatedly designated an "enemy combatant," despite evidence showing he had no known links to terrorist groups.
Lawyers for Guantanamo detainees often argue that their clients are being held based on thin intelligence, but Kurnaz's case is the first where the record clearly shows that evidence of innocence was ignored to justify his continued detention. His story, pieced together from intelligence reports, newly declassified Pentagon documents, and secret testimony before the German Parliament—much of it never before reported in the United States—offers a rare window into the workings of the secretive system used to hold and try terrorism suspects.
MURAT KURNAZ, the son of Turkish immigrants, was born and raised in Bremen, a rainy north German port city, where he lived with his family in a simple brick row house. His father, Metin, worked the assembly line at a Mercedes Benz plant, while his mother, Rabiye, stayed home with him and his two younger brothers. On Fridays he and his father attended the neighborhood Kuba Mosque, a storefront sanctuary with a barbershop, bookstore, and cavernous teahouse where old men in crocheted skullcaps huddle around plastic tables.
Mosque-goers remember Kurnaz as a shy, quiet boy who didn't take much interest in religion. "He was a normal Muslim Turk, who prayed once in a while, but was not very observant," says Nurtekin Tepe, a local bus driver, who has known Kurnaz since he was a child. Instead, Kurnaz spent his time watching Bruce Lee movies, dreaming about motorbikes (he hoped to get one and drive it 110 miles per hour on the autobahn), and lifting weights, often with his neighbor, Selcuk Bilgin, who had many of the same interests, though he was six years older.
This began to change in the fall of 2000. Kurnaz, then 18, was working as a nightclub bouncer; Bilgin had a dead-end job at a supermarket. Some of their friends had started getting in trouble with the law. Feeling there must be something more to life, both men began to take a deeper interest in Islam. Before long, they had cut pork from their diets, grown their beards long, and started attending a new mosque, Abu Bakr, which was located in a dingy, fluorescent-lit office building near Bremen's main train station and preached a strict brand of Sunni Islam.
Around this time, Kurnaz also started searching for a Muslim bride, and in the summer of 2001 he married Fatima, a young woman who hails from a rural Turkish village. The union was arranged by relatives, and the couple met only once before the ceremony. The idea was to bring her to Germany as soon as her paperwork was sorted out. Meanwhile, Kurnaz and Bilgin made plans to travel to Pakistan. The reason for the trip has been a matter of much debate, but Kurnaz claims he was worried that he didn't know enough about Islam to be a good Muslim husband and wanted to study the Koran before Fatima's arrival.
The flight was scheduled to depart Frankfurt on October 3, 2001, less than a month after the 9/11 attacks, but even before Kurnaz and Bilgin boarded the plane their plans began to unravel. Bilgin was stopped at passport control because of an outstanding $1300 fine levied after his dog ran away and attacked a bicyclist. Unable to pay, he called his older brother, Abdullah, in Bremen and asked him to wire the money. Instead, Abdullah phoned the Frankfurt police and urged them not to let Bilgin fly. "My brother is following a friend to Afghanistan to fight the Americans," he said, according to police reports. "He was stirred up in a Bremen mosque."
Questioned by police a few days later, Abdullah, who unlike his brother has a poor grasp on German, said his words had been taken out of context; he'd feared Kurnaz and Bilgin might get caught up in the conflict, but didn't know for a fact that they had plans of fighting. But by that time, the wheels were already in motion. Bilgin was arrested and Bremen police launched a criminal investigation into him, Kurnaz, and two other men who attended Abu Bakr. Germany's domestic intelligence agency also got in on the act, sending an undercover agent to the mosque to ferret out information.
Meanwhile, Kurnaz, who had gotten on the plane without Bilgin, was traveling through Pakistan, unaware of the commotion his departure had caused.
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IS THIS THE WAY FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK IN THE US? THAT'S NOT WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS OR OUR FOUNDERS BELIEVED.
A NAzi is a Nazi is a patriotic Nazi must do his duty and torture perverts everywhere.
How much of this kind of thing has to happen before something is done about it? Or maybe it's so easy to ignore because this stuff is happening to Muslims. If it happened to your Uncle Bernie, I bet something would happen damned fast.
As Americans, we are all responsible and should all hang our heads in shame. This is a human being, made in God's image. What in the name of all that is holy are we doing.........
The is the (vice Presidents?) cockanamie idea of counter terrorism. Anybody in the vicinity or shook hands with somebody who shook hand with somebody in the al-Quaida
will be disappeared. A plague on the jerks who participated in these acts.
The administration believes that the end justifies the means. So, we have the beginning of a Fascist regime here in the good ole U.S.A.
No, it is not OK to torture. The threat from within is far greater than the threat from "terrorist". Our government officials are the ones we need to keep our eyes on.
Yeah, it sounds good. War on Terror!!! Just like the War on Poverty, and the War on Drugs.
These wars are really profitable for some people.
I think we should have a war on people who care more about NASCAR than they do about liberty. Wake up people before it is too late.
Thank you Mother Jones. You have been fighting for a long time and I appreciate it.
So what is the problem?? I read this 2 times specifically looking for any torture the second reading, none found. Again, what is the problem. But one question I do have, is spending 23 of 24 hours in solitary, only one hour a day out of your cell, considered torture? This is the normal routine, not any special punishment of the prison.
Halliburton built jail at Gitmo on a no bid contract given out before President Clinton left office.
Response to Okane: So its O.K. to keep a man in prison with solitary confinement indeterminately if somebody calls him an enemy combatant And there was some torture, I don't know what Okame considers reading.
How do we know Okame isn't an enemy combatant? How can he prove he isn't?
USA stop being ridiculous and release the man. Enough is enough.
I'd like to read a book written by one of the guards that could punish this many in solitary for giving his blanket back. What was HIS story? Whose parents raised him to treat another human that way? Where was he from? How do we toleratet this? It's a crying shame.
robert okane: There's a troll under every bridge, isn't there?
So you'd have us believe, would you, that being held for four years, for friggin NOTHING you ever did, isn't torture? Kept in solitary, paraded in leg- and handcuffs, by three MP's, down to the hearing room every couple of weeks, for another tribunal "review," that never can quite see that you don't belong there?
That isn't torture?
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kill your Faux "noose" channel.
IF THIS POOR SOULS PLIGHT ISN'T GROUNDS FOR IMPEACHMENT OF THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION, EVEN DISREGARDING HOW WE WERE TRICKED INTO AN ILLEGAL WAR, ETC.. WHAT IS? HOW CAN THE CONGRESS ALLOW PEOPLE TO BE TREATED IN THIS WAY? I KNOW THAT BUSH & CO. NEARLY SHREDDED THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION, BUT WHERE DOES IT END?
So what is the problem?? I read this 2 times specifically looking for any torture the second reading, none found. So, posted it to forum at **** PositiveCupid.com **** , which has become the #1 dating&support community serving herpes, hpv, hiv or other STD people in the world, to ask for help.
This article took my breath away. And if this Bush/ nazi regeime does not pay for this atroscity i will loose even more faith in the system than i already have. After reviewing the story i can only conclude that the us is just as bad as any communist countryeer treated thier prisoners, and with out furthur rehtoric, we shouldt have impeached the monster bush is a long time ago and this might not have occured. I am ashamed to be an american.
As the author notes, this is a somewhat old story. Many Germans have followed it for more than a year. While MJ should hype it to promote sales for the forthcoming English translation of a notable book, it's worth wondering about why a US news outlet waited so long to publish their "exclusive" version of it. There were probably other more interesting stories to report. Still the delay gives those of us so inclined further reason to shake our heads in disbelief.
Maybe they can make a movie, just see The road to Guantanamo a british movie.
OH GROW UP ALL OF YOU PANSIES. THIS IS THE REAL WORLD AND THERE ARE REAL TERRORISTS OUT THERE AND THEY WANT TO KILL AS MANY AMERICANS PLUS THEMSELVES AS THEY CAN. SO WHAT IF ONE GUY WAS INNOCENT. I'D RATHER WE TORTURED AND IMPRISONED ONE INNOCENT MAN THAT SEE 3000 MORE AMERICANS DIE, UNLESS IT WAS 3000 MORE IDIOTS LIKE MOST OF YOU.
You honestly believe it was
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You honestly believe it was arabic suiciders who destroyed the WTO? one innocent man over 3,000. huh? okay then why dont u volunteer to be tortured and ur statement makes no sense...... " SO WHAT IF ONE GUY WAS INNOCENT. I'D RATHER WE TORTURED AND IMPRISONED ONE INNOCENT MAN THAT SEE 3000 MORE AMERICANS DIE, UNLESS IT WAS 3000 MORE IDIOTS LIKE MOST OF YOU."" how does torturing him prevent the death 3,000 more americans if he's innocent. Are you retarded? Do some background research.
response to KATIE on april 1; Your highly enlightened and compassionate response is an outstanding example of why America is so well loved and admired by the citizens of the world.
"...Your highly enlightened and compassionate response is an outstanding example of why America is so well loved and admired by the citizens of the world."
Who gives a shiite what other citizens think of America!
Really, WHO GIVES A SHIITE? F.U.C.K. 'EM Ustah! Most of them are gonna hate us anyway, and if they're Islamic, they want to slit our throats regardless of what we do to appease them. Wise up, dumbazz.
And Katie is right - you people are a bunch of pansies! I think part of the problem is arm-chair-quarterbacking. You bunch of pissing, whining pansies have never been out in the rest of the world to see first hand what it's really like. Instead you rely on crap that is regurgitated here, or at the Daily Kos, or by Pig Woman Rosie O for your "knowledge". Get off the fuc-kin' computer, get a passport/join the Peace Corps/join the military and go out to see some of the shiiteholes of the world and what the US is doing to better their situations, instead of bashing your own fuc-kin' country first and foremost.
What a bunch of elite, socialistic losers.
Re: Did his part, how about you? Why would you bother to even go to the "Mother Jones" news web site when you are obviously confused angry and hateful...Maybe, (or maybe not) you are in the military or was in the military, either way you have some huge problems. Maybe you have been involved with torture or other things that you have a need to justify your actions to your self and others...Writing hateful comments, stereotyping others who you have no clue as to who they are, or where they live, what they have done...And the Rosey O comment, issues with liberals, gay issues, what ever, you have the problem, I don't watch tv, there is too much propaganda and garbage in it, like the constant lies and propaganda on the Fox News network, where most RW Bush worshipers get their misinformation, fear and hate...Bill Ocrazy should be charged with inciting hate crimes, he has incited many unbalanced angry racists to attack muslims and immigrants...Since you obviously have hate anger and war issues, that verge on radical fascism, you may keep a heart attack or stroke at bay by avoiding liberal sites and the radical right wing fascist sites...Anyway you shake it, you and the female commenter need to chill, get counseling, tranquilizers, go fishing, get spiritual...There are political, religious and philosophical radicals who are willing to die for their beliefs, and they aren't just Muslims...There are some very brain washed dangerous American right wing military types who love to kill and think they are in a Holy war against the Muslims in the middle east...The young man in the article was psychologically tortured, because of unbalanced dangerous military people who kept him in prison without any real cause...In war the old mentally balanced US always officially, followed the Geneva Convention, which sets humane reasonable rules for the treatment of prisoners of war...This was set up, so our own soldiers who were prisoners had a chance to survive the prison camps. In the middle east, no American soldier will have a chance if captured by enemies..They do have a chance of being tortured to death by very revengeful and angry radical terrorist types..In the US, all we really have to fear is each other, the division between radical fascist, greedy, war monging right wingers and normal educated people who can think for themselves,is huge...The Bush Gang have gone fare beyond reasonable "Just Cause" to hold many prisoners, and they have gone against our own laws and constitution by torturing and holding people without cause..It's almost like a bunch of evil sadists who want any excuse to hurt, torture or otherwise harm other humans and maybe animals are in charge...Paranoid, crazy, insane people who see little terrorists behind the bush, or just hate Muslims...Crazy minded war mongers who kill for Jesus!!!...What we all knew, just became official today, Bush and Gang deliberately misled, and lied about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he could attack the country and occupy Iraq for profit, oil, and power...Ranting angry crazed comments that justify or trivialize torture and imprisonment are the Red Flags of a mind that is seriously twisted, in pain, and a danger to himself or herself and others...We had no right to invade Iraq, and we have a new angry population of terrorist, who hate the crazy murdering invaders called Americans, who destroyed their country, killed innocent, men women and children without just cause. Bush and gang has made all Americans targets of hate, he has made our lives unsafe, and at risk for attack, especially if we want to travel out side of the US...What they do not understand is that the citizens of the US have been under attack by the Bush administration too...We have watched our rights being taken away from us, we are no longer safe from harm by our own government...And we all know it, but usually keep it to ourselves...We need to leave Iraq, get our military out of danger...Our soldiers should never be used as pawns for power, profit and oil, they should only be used to protect our own country from invasion and harm...Using them as pawns is criminal and wrong...And torturing any war criminal is wrong, and jailing someone for years for being a suspect with no proof, is wrong...Where are your morals, what happened to you that your sense of right and wrong is so twisted that you see no problem with this? You need to get out of the US, and view others as who they are, fellow human beings who are just trying to survive, and of course there will always be the radicals who want to force there beliefs on others through violence, bombs or torture...Hopefully, you will not be identified, captured and tortured by angry radicals who know they are right, God is on their side and you are an evil heathen..At this time you just happen to be one of them, (change your country, religion and ethnicity) and you think you are right and are obviously hateful hostile and dangerous to be at large. I see your type as terribly oppressive, wanting to rule over others by force in whatever form you can use. If your type could rule, we would not have any opinions that are allowed to be spoken other than yours, there would not be a Mother Jones, comment section..We would be simular to China, with state controlled internet. I hope for the sake of all that is good and loving that American's who are for the constitution, who believe in separation of church and state, freedom of religion and speach and in democracy can take the US back, make it for the people, by the people...It was a wonderful concept, or ideal to strive for, maybe we will be able to get it back..
Hey ma,
Nice speech. Well written, calm, and insightful to the liberal mind. I take it you're on the squad of left wing arm-chair-quarterbacks who would rather sit back in the cushy confines of the safe, prosperous society that this nation provides, and berate that very nation rather than support or defend it against its enemies. Sure, you'll attend some bullshiite demonstration or rally and feel you're doing your part, but really. It's all just take, take, take for you folks. How do you live with yourselves?
I don't know if Mother Jones is a news web site as you state, or a commentary web site, since the "news" as they report it is obviously slanted, which is not a hallmark of news journalism. But I digress.
I do enjoy (to an extent) occasionally reading the whining and ranting of liberals - it lets me stay abreast of the mindset of those who wish to tear down our own country rather than defend it. I don't think I'll ever understand or agree with your positions, but it's an interesting read. (By the way, many of our Islamic enemies are now here within our own borders, many living as legal residents with millions of dollars coming in from the Saudis to support them, their schools, and mosques here in the US. That's not paranoia or Kool-Aid talking, just facts uncovered during a little research into Islam, the religion/way-of-life that commands its followers to slit the throat of Kefirs, Infidels, Unbelievers... Americans. But I suppose you don't have a problem with that... I'm sure you think that's America's fault too. Again I digress - that's another topic and argument for another day).
I have to wonder ma, since you don't watch TV, how do you know that, quote: "there is too much propaganda and garbage in it, like the constant lies and propaganda on the Fox News network, where most RW Bush worshipers get their misinformation, fear and hate... Bill Ocrazy should be charged with inciting hate crimes, he has incited many unbalanced angry racists to attack muslims and immigrants..." You get all that information without even watching the show? Interesting. Are you a sheep that just follows along with what others write about Fox/O'Reilly on the left wing hate sites? Being a Huffington Post adict doesn't seem like a good way to become informed and enlightened ma - you should know better. Personally, I can't stand most of the anchors on MSNBC anymore, so obviously twisted and slanted are their views and reporting. But, I watch them occasionally to get "the other perspective". (And having done so, I am amazed they can get away with such unabashed hate speech and outright slanted "journalism" and favoritism. But hey, they're on cable and they have the First Amendment, so I won't begrudge them their right. I just feel sorry for the saps who only watch that drivel and believe it is the true news.
When you say, "In war the old mentally balanced US always officially, followed the Geneva Convention, which sets humane reasonable rules for the treatment of prisoners of war...This was set up, so our own soldiers who were prisoners had a chance to survive the prison camps. In the middle east, no American soldier will have a chance if captured by enemies..They do have a chance of being tortured to death by very revengeful and angry radical terrorist types.." You sort of answer your own statement. Countries abide by Geneva Convention rules regarding POWs in hopes that enemies will treat captured soldiers in a likewise humane fashion. Obviously the North Vietnamese blew that theory out the window, with their incredible physical torture of our GIs. And the terrorists who capture our troops today would rather videotape their torture and decapitation than abide by any silly rules of war. Besides, no terrorist organization has ratified or signed the Geneva Convention rules, so in theory, we don't have to comply when we capture their fighters. However, the US Supreme Court did rule that we will provide at least the minimum of POW human rights to them, so we do. Do you know that there are Governors in the US who have visited Guantanamo Bay and commented afterward that the terrorists/enemy combatants being held there have it better than American citizen prisoners in many of our stateside prisons? Interesting eh? I wouldn't feel too sorry for captured terrorists, especially in light of the fact that they want to kill you personally, ma.
I love this... "the division between radical fascist, greedy, war monging right wingers and normal educated people who can think for themselves,is huge..." So in your eyes, left wing liberals are normal and educated, and can think for themselves, while the rest of us are knuckle-draggers bent on war, destruction and harboring our millions in blood money. Again, interesting insight into the liberal mind. Did you know that there are more "rich" Democrats in the US than rich Republicans? Not a big deal, but a fact that might not mesh with your ideas on greed.
"Bush and Gang deliberately misled, and lied about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he could attack the country and occupy Iraq for profit, oil, and power..." Your inanity keeps me chuckling ma! So you mean to tell me that the FBI, CIA, British Intel, and Saddam's own Generals all were convinced that Saddam had WMDs, but it's Bush's fault and Bush misled the world? Don't you remember Saddam using nerve gas to kill Iraqi Kurds? And the UN passed 17 resolutions against Iraq/Saddam, pressuring him to come clean and let the inspectors do their job, but all were rejected. We went through 12 years of rejected diplomacy and resolutions before we took action, all the while Iraqi men, women and children were being tortured, raped, and killed by this madman while he maintained the means to transfer these WMDs to terrorists for use against the US. So, how much longer would you have waited to take action? (silly question, you're an arm-chair-quarterback who doesn't take action!) Tell me ma, how much profit, oil, and power are we getting out of this? Do you have an Iraqi oil pipeline coming through your neighborhood? Where was it ever in the plans to get any of the above? Or are you being a hate-site sheep again?
Just a couple final thoughts to try to correct your regurgitated liberal babble. (you really need to gather your own identity and integrity, and stop being such a tool for the left wing haters ma)
More Iraqis have been killed by Muslims/Islamists than by Americans. Stop your unfounded berating of America's military.
You say; "we have a new angry population of terrorist, who hate the crazy murdering invaders called Americans,... Bush and gang has made all Americans targets of hate,"
Well, let's see how things stack up ma. Shall we start with one of your heroes, Jimmy Carter? The Iranian militants captured the US Embassy and 70 Americans, holding them captive for 444 days – that’s over a year for the mathematically challenged liberals out there. Carter never did get them released… it took a strong willed conservative to get the job done. Then another of your heroes, Bill no-respect-for-women Clinton had the following take place under his watch: The World Trade Center bombing in 1993 (by another raghead group led by that blind shiek); the bombing of the USS Cole that killed 17 American Sailors while it was sat peacefully in a Yemeni port; the Khobar Towers got blown up in Saudi Arabia which killed 19 American military and wounded 372; two American Embassies got blown to smithereens at the same time in Africa and killed over 200 people; and of course, all the planning and staging for 19 homocide bombers who flew fully-fueled aircraft filled with people into the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon soon after Bush took the reins from Clinton. Have you already forgotten? So how are your liberal heroes doing at protecting America ma?
Also, on more than one occasion, Clinton was offered Osama bin Laden, but he turned it down! The Sudanese government was going to hand OBL over to Clinton! And now the lunatic left blames Bush for not finding OBL in the high country of Afghanistan & Pakistan?!? Give me a break!
Can you enlighten me on this statement, as I AM VERY INTERESTED IN YOUR REPLY TO THIS: “We have watched our rights being taken away from us, we are no longer safe from harm by our own government...” Tell me ma, how have YOUR rights been altered? How has YOUR life been changed by your big, scary government? Me personally, I haven’t noticed one single change – not one! My life has not been affected one iota… but then again, I’m not a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer! I don't call terrorists overseas or donate to their causes. How about you, ma? Hell, I’ve even travelled into Muslim countries since Bush has been in office (But, I still don't trust the Islamists who are driven to kill all non-Muslims).
Start thinking for yourself ma - don't be a tool of radical left.
READ THE BOOK BY MURAT KURNAZ
(MOST OF THE WORLD KNOWS MORE ABOUT
AMERICAN MISCONDUCT THAN WE DO.)
The article does not go into details,
which involve details of torture like
amputation of fingers of craftsmen,
beating a kid whose legs they cut off
and would not treat,
electro-shock,
poisoning,
beatings of the handicapped & elderly
(the oldest prisoner was about
90 years old)
etc...
Murat (and others)
they knew were innocent
(even the camp commandant said
most of their prisoners were innocent,
farmers living near the border
and farmers whose lands other farmers
(from other tribes) coveted, etc...
They were held and tortured
with the intention of never
releasing any of them,
partly because they knew most of them
were innocent, and they did not want to
admit they were wrong (GUILTY).
The people quoted below are
clearly reminiscent of Nazis:
Responding to
SATAN, the April Fool,
& other such slime
quoted below:
"a patriotic Nazi must do his duty and torture perverts everywhere. -SATAN
So what is the problem?? ...
This is the normal routine,
not any special punishment...
OH GROW UP ALL OF YOU PANSIES.
THIS IS THE REAL WORLD
AND THERE ARE REAL TERRORISTS OUT THERE
AND THEY WANT TO KILL AS MANY AMERICANS
PLUS THEMSELVES AS THEY CAN.
SO WHAT IF ONE GUY WAS INNOCENT.
I'D RATHER WE TORTURED
AND IMPRISONED ONE INNOCENT MAN
THAT SEE 3000 MORE AMERICANS DIE,
UNLESS IT WAS 3000 MORE IDIOTS
LIKE MOST OF YOU.
Posted by: KATIE April 1, 2008 8:34:13
Who gives a shiite what other citizens think of America!
Really, WHO GIVES A SHIITE? F.U.C.K. 'EM..."
*****************
The people quoted above are
clearly reminiscent of Nazis.
Responding to
SATAN, the April Fool,
& other such slime
quoted above:
READ THE BOOK BY MURAT KURNAZ
(MOST OF THE WORLD KNOWS MORE ABOUT
AMERICAN MISCONDUCT THAN WE DO.)
The article does not go into details,
which involve details of torture like
amputation of fingers of craftsmen,
beating a kid whose legs they cut off
and would not treat,
electro-shock,
poisoning,
beatings of the handicapped & elderly
(the oldest prisoner was about
90 years old)
etc...
Murat (and others)
they knew were innocent
(even the camp commandant said
most of their prisoners were innocent,
farmers living near the border
and farmers whose lands other farmers
(from other tribes) coveted, etc...
They were held and tortured
with the intention of never
releasing any of them,
partly because they knew most of them
were innocent, and they did not want to
admit they were wrong (GUILTY).
What makes the US a great nation is that we are above Torture, that we have the right to due process, a fair trial with a jury of our peers. No "label" can take away that right and anyone not willing to fight for justice and liberty deserves neither.
That fight is not necessarily fought with guns as most of the disillusioned right wing conservatives like the above posters tend to think.
However tempting to wish the loss of liberty and unjust prosecution on the above idiots, I will not. Ignorance is bliss, but then most of them are probably ignorant 12 year olds, or even worse grown insecure men with the mental acuity of a 12 year old. Either way they are the one's stuck having to live with themselves and the resulting dark view and olfactory tribulation that could only come from having their head lodged that far up their arse.
ur mum is so fat that old people run round her llolololoollllololololo
We are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. Let's be honest. Americans hate Muslims and there funny false made up religion. Traveling across this beautiful country, I have met no one who does not approve of Guantanamo, black sites, rendition or torturing those people to death. One American life is worth 1000000 of there's, even if they are innocent. No one cares about all this fuss. So what if we lied? I'm going to be honest. Plainly speaking, we, the real Americans, need to be honest about the black problem, and we have no reason to be ashamed of claiming this country from the Indians. And if Jesus hadn't wanted us to bomb the Japanese, he would have gave them the bomb. So don't come crying to me about all this. Winner take all.
Response to Frank Stallone
Right on bro' As a fellow conservative, I am still miffed about giving women the right to vote, social security, medicare, passing the '65 civil right ammendment....we do not need any stinking change!!
çoklu msn
good and beautiful about comments
tiffany jewelry
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