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It's the Corruption, Stupid

Lawrence Lessig on his new job, his latest cause, and why reforming Washington begins outside the Beltway.

| Sat Feb. 7, 2009 3:09 PM EST

Lawrence Lessig has a new cause—and new job to go with it. For more than a decade, the Stanford law professor and Creative Commons founder has focused his efforts on Internet and copyright issues, advocating a "free culture" that puts fewer legal barriers in the way of artists who adapt and build upon the works of others. Now he says he's finished his final book on the topic, Remix, and he recently announced that he will leave Stanford to run the Edmond J. Safra Foundation Center for Ethics at Harvard. From this new perch, Lessig will take aim at his latest target: corruption, particularly as it relates to the influence of money in politics. Last year, Lessig launched a new project, Change Congress, which calls on politicians to back four corruption-fighting reforms: stopping contributions from lobbyists or political action committees, ending earmarks, increasing congressional transparency, and supporting public financing of congressional campaigns. The organization also provides online tools that allow voters to see which politicians support these reforms, donate money to politicians who stand against corruption, and "pester" elected officials who have yet to take a stand. The organization's latest project is a nationwide "donor strike" asking citizens to refrain from donating money to political campaigns until Congress takes steps to limit the influence of money in politics. Mother Jones spoke with Lessig recently about his new job, his hopes for Barack Obama's presidency, and how corruption poisons politics. The interview has been edited for clarity and length.

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Mother Jones: When you announced your decision to leave Stanford for the Safra Center, you indicated that your new focus on corruption would become "the primary focus of the Center, and complement its mission." Do you think it will be hard to refocus an entire institution like the Safra Center on one specific issue?

Lawrence Lessig: No, because it's a dictatorial organization. The director gets to choose. I'm joking. In theory it would be hard, but the negotiations that led to my acceptance of the position were pretty clearly focused around the idea that at least part of the work of the center is going to be redirected towards this problem. Nobody expects that we're going to dismantle the ongoing life of the center and direct it exclusively to this, but certainly this is going to be some of its work for the next five years.

MJ: Is there going to be a redesign of the Safra website in the works? It's pretty Web 0.5…

LL: Oh my god, yes. There's actually one that I've learned is in the works right now. I have not seen it yet. So that might be fine, but yes, a lot of work to do on the Web.

MJ: Are you leaving most of your copyright work at Stanford, in the hands of the institutions that you've worked with there? Or are you going to be bringing part of that to Harvard?

LL: I don't think I'm going to be continuing the work on copyright-reform issues. I still am on the board of Creative Commons, and obviously will work to support that organization as much as I can, but I'm trying to be very disciplined about focusing exclusively on this new area. The complication to that is this book that I finished a year ago that I'm talking about, so I'm going to have to continue talking about that book, Remix, but once that's in the rearview mirror then I think that's it.

MJ: You supported Barack Obama for president. Is he the person to fix Washington? Do you trust that Obama is going to follow through on his promises?

LL: He certainly is going to follow through on his promises, but the question is what's the set of priorities. I've described this analogy: Imagine you have cancer and you're going to the hospital for chemotherapy and on the way you're the victim of a drive-by shooting. That's kind of the state of our nation today. So Obama early in his campaign was talking about the cancer, and then on the way to the election we had this series of catastrophes which have created this traumalike situation, so he's got a certain amount of triage that has to be engaged in immediately, for the next chunk of time. And then the question is whether he gets beyond that to the more fundamental questions of change that he always was focusing on. I don't doubt that he'd want to do it, but the question is whether he's going to be focused enough to get it done.

MJ: It's not just Obama that needs to act for this change to happen, though; it's also Congress—that's why you founded Change Congress. Are you surprised that sitting members might be reluctant to take a stand on corruption?

LL: I'm not surprised. My view has always been that the problem here isn't Democrats or Republicans: The problem is both. The problem is incumbency, and any system that changes the dynamics of incumbency is going to be resisted by the incumbents, and I think that's what we're seeing. We have a set of strategies about how to overcome that, but it's only going to come from lots of pressure on the outside trying to force the system on the inside to change.

MJ: So have you been disappointed in the progress so far?

LL: I'm constantly disappointed in the sense that I always think we should be able to do more. I guess I'm not surprised. I wish that we had accomplished more, and we're thinking about a way to refocus to accomplish more. McCain was pretty good at creating ambiguity about who is the party of reform, and that made it hard to focus on the reform issue tied directly to one movement during the presidential election. So it got to be a more complicated debate than any of us thought six months ago.

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