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How to Confront Rape Jokes
A co-worker's tweet this morning drew my attention to a blog post on how to respond to rape jokes. The author of the blog post lays out 5 possible responses when someone jokes that a woman wanted it, or was so unattractive she should be glad to get raped:
1. Keep quiet and feel uncomfortable.
2. Try to top the joke with a more offensive one.
3. Initiate a Very Serious Conversation in which you state rape is never funny.
4. Initiate a Very Serious Conversation II in which you disclose your own rape, and mention that you were definitely NOT laughing during it.
5. Talk outside the box. As in, "I knew this guy in college, and he totally got raped during rush and had to go to the doctor! He's in therapy now! It was hilarious!"
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Can You Love a Child of Rape?
Post-genocide, Rwandan women raise the children of their attackers.
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Letterman Protest Misses Real Rape Crisis
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DA Refuses to Prosecute Rape Case, Despite Eye Witnesses, DNA
What's the penalty for the alleged gangrape of a drunk, 17-year-old girl at a party with 10 of your buddies?...
Personally, I've always felt at a loss as to how to respond to rape jokes, inevitably told by a straight guy (so far). I always feel the strong obligation to confront the joke, wait a few seconds hoping someone else will do it for me, then finally give in and say something. None of the options above sound like much fun, but I guess if I had to pick one I'd do #5 because at least then you don't put yourself in the category of the patronizing mega-feminist as parodied in Away We Go. Academic studies have actually shown that men—and to a much lesser degree, women—dislike women more when they speak up about sexist comments or other prejudiced behavior. It's pretty well established that there is a definite backlash to women for speaking up for themselves: numerous sexual harassment cases have shown this, with women fired or further penalized for bringing lawsuits.
Of course, just telling a friend that joking about rape isn't cool is not the same thing as suing your company for sexual harassment. But both are difficult because of the high social cost to women for rocking the boat. No one wants to be that uppity biyotch who thinks she can tell everyone what to think, and no one really likes that gal. As one study put it, "People have a general desire to be liked and to appear competent" but those who confront racism or sexism "are generally neither well-liked nor perceived as competent. Instead, they are often disliked, viewed as troublemakers, or seen as having problematic personalities." As one study found, though many women say they'd confront sexist behavior, very few actually do. So just because other women don't say anything when they hear a rape joke, doesn't mean they condone it.
Fortunately, the "speak-up stigma" can be lessened through education of the ones who might be telling the jokes. Educating young men, jocks and frat boys especially, on male-on-male rape has been found to not only increase empathy and sensitivity toward female rape victims, but to actually increase willingness to confront their peers' behaviors. Until then, I guess I'm left with option #5. Here's hoping I don't have to use it any time soon.
Appropriate Reponse?
I usually respond to rape jokes by simply saying "All rapists should be executed." It lays down your position on the matter, disarms the person making the joke, and potentially opens up a dialogue on just why rape jokes are not funny at all. If nothing else, it might get that person to think first the next time before saying something stupid.
www.wicasta.com
www.malleusmaleficarum.org
I don't really agree with you on #5's effectiveness
Male-on-male rape is routinely portrayed as comedy on TV and in movies. Rarely is a "prison bitch" portrayed to be a sympathetic character. Instead, he squirms comically as he is approached by his unbelievably massive, usually bald counterpart.
If you could get the jokesters to actually consider the unpleasantness of being forcibly colonoscopied with a beer can, perhaps they might understand. However, I think they would more than likely just laugh off such an idea so as to avoid feeling uncomfortable.
As an aside, I recently rewatched Revenge of the Nerds and was really upset by the rape scene played out on screen. Somehow, at 8 (my original viewing), I didn't really understand the idea of consent, and tricking a girl into being my girlfriend seemed like a decent idea.
No, not quite.
"Male-on-male rape is routinely portrayed as comedy on TV and in movies."
I don't think that's true. Off the top of my head, Edward Norton's rape-victim character is portrayed very sympathetically in _American History X_.
That's one in a hundred,
That's one in a hundred, however.
I usually do an exaggerated
I usually do an exaggerated take -- eyes wide, mouth agape, hands up and "Whoa!" or "Holy Moly!" with a step back to indicate I didn't sign up for this conversation. Replace the look of shock with a grimace of disgust and say nothing more. If the joke teller gets all "Wait, what'd I say?", the hands go up again to cut him off, and maybe a "Jesus! Ewww!" If that doesn't work, I step out of the group to go elsewhere, as if I'm shunning the 'joker.'
Now, some people won't be cowed by this. But generally speaking, showing disgust is way more effective than showing umbrage. It's a social control without parallel.
Why do women always feel
Why do women always feel they have to be 'liked'? People who know me like me, and if someone starts thinking I'm a bitch just coz I stand up for myself well that's their problem. Why should I care when they're obviously so misogynistic to start with?
I'm more for #5 too. Or maybe the 'yeah it's fun unless it happens to your mum/sister/girlfriend/whoever they're supposed to care about' approach.
Variant on #5
"What's the best part about shoving my entire fist up your ass?"
"I can punch you in the face in the same time!"
(disclaimer: I'm a dude, but it's my favorite way of responding to rape jokes, because it takes something that was meant to be depersonalizing and makes it very personal. Obviously it's not in good taste... but neither was the original.)
Option 6
I like to use another method when dealing with rape jokes, which I mercifully hear rarely.
I play dumb so that the teller has to explain the joke. Not indigant dumb, or accusatory, but genuinely pie-eyed clueless, and somewhat eager. I do this so that Mr. Rape Joke will have to painstakingly explain the mechanics of the "joke" and why it is funny. This usually means that he will have to - in some way - say that forcing sex on women is funny, that rape isn't actually real, that women want rape, or a number of other rape-friendly tropes that no one admits to actually believing, but that so many do.
This method also works with racism and homophobia. The thing about -isms is that their propagation relies on compliance from the listener. When we don't comply with silence or agreement, then the offenders have to hang themselves.
Ha
Ha ha. I love it. But I guess I tend to get too impatient to play along with something like this. I'd rather make a quick sarcastic remark than waste some large portion of my time spinning things out for the moron.
I had to stop watching
I had to stop watching "Family Guy" due to the digustingly increasing number of rape jokes. Not funny.
The Opposite of Sex
If the joke teller is a man, I (a woman myself) always counter by a castration joke. It silences them every time.
that sounds effective - got
that sounds effective - got any good castration jokes to share?
The guys are terribly wrong
The guys are terribly wrong that do this, as well as the woman that laugh about men being raped in prisonn, but castration comments really punish all the men in earshot. It's too cruel of a response and not a classy way to deal with bad taste. Finally you'll be remembered with hatred, not with respect.
So--it really punishes men
So--it really punishes men too much to hear a castration joke, when almost no men that you know have been castrated? It's too CRUEL? But it's not cruel for someone to tell a rape joke, which 25% of women have experienced, merely "terribly wrong."
If as imaginary a threat as castration is that fearsome just to bring up, they really need their privilege checked--they desperately NEED to realize that they're making a joke about a much more real threat that women are raised to check their lives around.
Excuse me if I'm not too worried about these terribly victimised men. Who are so selfish they'd apparently hate anyone who pointed it out.
I said you're punishing men
I said you're punishing men in the area by singling out a male only, discriminatory act, castration, to men who would never, ever rape, with the threat of something much worse than rape. You defile further the environment for your feelings (!?) rather than teach one man or woman joking that he/she is wrong? Would you stand up for men so vehemently when a woman jokes about him getting raped in prison or raped in clear daylight by being kicked in the groin - every single bit the embarassment, self-hatred, and sexual assault with long term damage, on MANY occasions, & when it happens it's much worse than rape due to mental + permanent physical damage from a woman getting her "kicks." My son and husband BOTH have been assaulted and I live with their pain everyday. They're the real victims but so am I. Don't ever tell ME about assault or the equal damage you're thinking causes. And don't exaggerate female rape statistics to make your case ever again either! Go do some real research.
I can't believe you just
I can't believe you just seriously stated that you think a dude getting kicked in the balls is not just equal to, not just worse, but actually MUCH WORSE than being raped. Wow, I am fucking flabbergasted over here.
Then that's where YOU'RE
Then that's where YOU'RE learning begins. No other comments, you just tried to minimize that as best you could. You obviously have no men who love you that have been hurt in such a way, as I have. The rest of my life, my son! So much growing you have to do. Every single rape is a tragedy, I meant to say that, too. Please never ever minimize a kick to the crotch again, or the power of your words. Mine are powerful, I'm a female, and I definitely understand my power.
I've seen men take some
I've seen men take some nasty kicks to the groin that dropped them to the ground and left them puking their guts out.
Over the years of my involvement as a woman in the martial arts, in a style that involves a lot of groin kicks and stomps, I've never understood why some guys are so reluctant to wear groin protection, even after they've taken a direct kick or two. I've had to learn, from male instructors, how to help boys recover from a blow to the groin. (Sorry, but once a guy is my size, he's on his own.)
My own sons have been kicked in the groin, in class and/or out in the real world. I have yet to meet one groin kick victim who requires therapy, suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder, has recurrent flashacks and nightmares, is clinically depressed, or has been suicidal as a result of a kick to the groin. But almost all of the many rape victims I know have experinced some, if not all of that. And I'm not even mentioning the physical trauma.
Yes, groin kicks hurt. Probably more than I can imagine. But if they were as traumatic as rape, few men would train in martial arts, and those that do would all wear titanium groin cups. Men would be far more reluctant to assault women out of fear of a well-aimed knee to the groin. There would be Groin Kick Crisis Centers, support groups, therapists, and inpatient treatment programs, as well as groin kick prevention classes.
Sorry, but perhaps those that think groin kicks are worse than or equivalent to rape need to educate themselves.
I'm a black belt in Kuk Sul
I'm a black belt in Kuk Sul Won. My husband teach before two martial arts and competed. Great father, teach children, teach me. His cup pinch his right testicle during a match and he lost it. He could not teach much longer, 2 years and he did good still. Something died inside him. My son in 10th grade, football player, kicked by girl for her friends thrills in wrong place & time. He refuses to play any sports now. His right testicle survived but is sterile and small. The rest of his life he fears last kick, not making love to a wife. He is unmarried. His fear is terrible. He can't fix himself and forget about it. To me he has been raped. His life is changed forever. DVD rentals reminds him. TV shows. Your disrespect too would remind him. Centers? There is no place for a man to turn for domestic violence. Do you think anyone's listening to him (are you)? Hatred is best emotion from fear so people can take action, fight. He hates and tries to love. No one cares. Just like you. Society justifies all the violence that men get. No one ever says it's okay to hurt us (I never heard it), and we have places to turn. Not good enough because after rape, but there. Can you see hatred toward men? Your own? How should men act back when it's okay to hurt them? See the uphill climb to be good men in bad society. Every reminder to my men is them hurt again. My son could run all day away from people and still hurt inside. That's his life forever.
I teach 1 and 1/2 years. We did not kick groin in my classes. It's not olay to hurt them to teach men or women. Hip check, thigh. Easy to do more damage, and responsible to the male students. You saw so much but never really see. You see cover up. Man best attempt to put behind him. Cups good or bad? My husband thinks bad because it moved and something very bad happened to him. Forever. Just for competing and being a good sports man. A good man. People should not kick there. It's simple. I don't want to argue realism. It's stupid. I don't want to argue with you. Your words make a worse society. You are mean at this time, too mean. I can't fight you and all women like you and care for my men, too. Maybe later I can reast and try again. I'm 49 and saw lots of silly arguments. Please turn life around. Don't accept rape jokes because that's bad. Don't threaten violence either because you can quickly. That's laziness. Can't take it back once you say it, and then you're 100% scum. We all are hated not just you.
We all hated if you say
We all hated if you say terrible things about men. That's what I meant in last sentence.
Words exchanged, male leaving, face punched, groin kicked
Victim traumatised after kick to testicles
Samantha Flaherty at Galway District Court yesterday.
www.bt-store.com
By Ann Healy
Tuesday July 07 2009
A MAN was hospitalised and went on to suffer from post-traumatic stress and pain for months after he was kicked in the testicles by a 19-year-old woman, a court heard yesterday.
very wrong joke
I think the poster here meant that rape jokes are very wrong (not the rape itself) and not castration jokes or more specifically the in-thing (simple, easy, cruel) penis cutting jokes in response weekly news elevates a bad environment to worse one, just because these are permanent (even if surgery is successful), devastating, and there's no equivalent to a female. Men and women both know this. There are not lifetimes lost sentences being passed for women having assorted feelings of having a right to hurt males when (an actual recent event) he packed his stuff but slept one more night at her request. So these things do happen to men, without empathy shown, often enough. However much more frequent are groin injuries (short term?). It actually is mentally distressing on males who watch and remember the moment they heard and watched reactions, internally pretty much for life. Sometimes they wait to lash out and as you probably know with men it's frequently all or nothing. In my field being a women has made all the difference to men suffering assorted relationship problems and self-hatred among other ailments. Lastly (having read down) while not an expert I can't understand kicks and stomps(!) to groins? Is there some concern about where that area really is on men? Are faces being stomped on or just men's testicles? To answer why they come back to class after being hurt, one of my clients did not return 2 weeks away from black belt testing. His female instructor hurt him sparring and he did not return. Most men tend to want to finish, then mentally rehearsh or "lick wounds" (stew about it) later. Make no mistake about their inherited hurt. All they have to do is look around at "what's allowed" in their environment. Confront gently rape jokes. It works.
Counter rape joke with castration joke
I.e. I don't believe rapists should be jailed, executed, or castrated. They should just have the Lorena Bobbit Chinese style - sliced and diced. Try sewing that puppy back on.
Once I happened to ask back,
Once I happened to ask back, So that's how your Mom got pregnant with you?
Am I missing something?!
Aside from me feeling really grateful for my circle of friends (I don't think I've ever heard a rape joke in person, and who are you all hanging out with?) Who the hell cares if you make someone uncomfortable by calling them on something this dangerous!
seriously!
i've never heard a rape joke in my life (have heard plenty of other off-color ones, though)... who are y'all hanging out with?!
rape jokes
I like the strategy of pretending not to get it so Mr. Funny has to explain what's so hilarious.
castration jokes... hmmm....
castration jokes... hmmm.... and maybe impotence ones? Though making fun of a limp dick isn't nearly on the same level as making fun of a criminal act of violence.
Is groin kick criminal act
Is groin kick criminal act of violence? I'm 49, Korean woman. You're shows are very mean. Man gets criminal act of violence almost every night on TV. So much no one blinks or care about men anymore. Men hate women. Fix this and see big change in men. Hate get more hate. That is hate.
Thanks for this post. I'm a
Thanks for this post. I'm a straight guy, I've never been raped and probably never will, but I still get uncomfortable when my brother jokes about rape - I don't think he realises how inappropriate it is. I've never been sure how to respond - normally I just ignore it and move on, but next time I'll stop him and ask him just what he finds so funny about it.
Irony
More than just "talking outside the box," what you're doing rhetorically with #5 is using irony/sarcasm to turn one's joke back onto him/her, a method which I think can be especially effective. Irony is so devastating because (1) the person has to stop and sort out what you actually meant, whether you were "serious" or not - or, that is, they have to "get it"; and, (2) by the time they've "gotten it," the joke's already been on them the entire time. So I'm a big fan of the irony myself. The, "Man, I know, it's so hilarious to treat women like shit (and/or) to be forced to do things sexually against your will."
Other times, when I know the person is a hopeless case, I'll make a general comment about how it was a pretty sick thing to say. (Or, if I'm at work, a pretty inappropriate thing to say.) If you don't feel like giving the lecture yourself, just remarking that it's sick might get a person to wonder about, gee, why might someone have said that? What did they mean? Though, more likely than not, they won't wonder anything. Self-reflection is a rare capability.
And in my experience, some men find the idea of being raped by another man actually so foreign, so "no way that could ever happen to me; I'd fight it off," (and these sentiments can no doubt be attributed in part to homophobia) that I wouldn't even bring up the subject. Men themselves are some of the biggest purveyors of "the inmate dropped the soap" jokes. Many still think it's acceptable for prison inmates to rape each other as part of their "punishment." (This is of course bullshit. Prison rape, or intra-prison mob justice, is cruel and unusual punishment; no judge lays out rape as part of a convicted person's sentence.)
Use Honesty, Use Information, and a Caution about research
It's important for us all to find ways that we can speak out against rape jokes and rape myths that we encounter in our daily lives. To do it well and effectively takes practice and thoughtfulness, and I always appreciate spaces that allow people to find better methods; however, I have to say that I don't see any of the methods you mention as appropriate responses. Would it be so difficult to avoid using further jokes and verbal violence by simply starting a conversation about why rape jokes are inappropriate and offensive? You could state the fact that 1 in 4 women will experience rape or attempted rape in their lifetime and that it's likely that someone in the office or someone close to them is a survivor. Rape jokes hurt survivors. They should also be offensive to anyone who cares about women. Telling rape jokes creates a hostile environment for women, and when someone tells one, you could ask them if that's really what they think about women and how they should be treated.
The more honest conversations we can have, ones that avoid using further violence and jokes, the closer we come to creating a world in which rape jokes don't exist.
As a side note, I would like to caution you against using the work of John. D. Foubert in regards to sexual violence prevention education. I find his work to be problematic for a variety of reasons. First of all, he evaluates programs that he created himself, which makes him a biased evaluator. Additionally, he has a substantial financial stake in those programs, which also contributes to his bias. This is unacceptable and unethical in terms of the code of conduct that good researchers follow.
More importantly, Foubert's assertion that men are more likely to intervene in situations of sexual assault and more likely to empathize with survivors of rape after viewing a video about a male-on-male rape relies solely on homophobic attitudes of men. This method is effective insofar as it perpetuates ideas that sex between men is disgusting and unwanted. Those who truly care about sexual violence prevention understand that homophobia (along with other prejudices and violence like racism, sexism, ageism, etc) is part of a system of oppression that perpetuates the prevalence of rape and rape jokes in society. If we are really invested in ending rape jokes and speaking out against them, then we must also work against racist, homophobic, and classist jokes and attitudes as well. John C. Foubert's method misses this point completely and therefore will not create sustainable change in our work to end violence against women.
If you are looking for more reliable sources of research for future articles, I would recommend using something from the National Online Resource Center on Violence Against Women at http://www.vawnet.org/ They have a lot of useful and reliable information that is useful for all of us who want to take steps, small or large, towards ending violence.
Changing the World Through Sarcasm
tagged as:- solution
I like to respond with displeasured sarcasm: "Rape joke. Classy."
I love the way this article
I love the way this article begs the question and assumes there's something inherently wrong with jokes about rape. Why should rape be off-limits for humor when there are jokes about murder, mutilation, the Holocaust, slavery, child molestation and death?
Please read the blog entry
Please read the blog entry that the beginning of this article links to. It's very important.
I like to laugh
I like to laugh exageratedly, slap my knee, and say, "Man, rape is funny!" I find that calling peopleon the underpinnings of their jokes can be a non-confrontational bit of consciousness-raising.
make them repeat...
i agree that acting confused and making them explain and repeat the joke until they get really uncomfortable... then just smirking and walking away is effective. they almost always "get" it after that. works nicely with gay/racial stereotype jokes, too.
i actually did this when I
i actually did this when I was about 7. I really didn't get the joke. One of my Dad's freinds told the joke about the woman and the gorilla. I looked up at my mom and back at the guy and said - why is that funny? No one answered, so I asked my mom, do you want a gorilla to do that to you? No answer. Everyone looking down. So I really thnk this method works.
I just can't help myself...
tagged as:- solution
- result
I don't care if the kind of people telling rape jokes like me or not...sheesh. I'm not in junior high anymore, and even then, I didn't give a crap! Some things are more important than being liked by thankless douchebags, and speaking up for yourself is one of them. Women who SCREAM and/or use martial arts or weapons when they're being attacked usually (I've met only a few who haven't benefitted from this approach) run the attacker/s off, but the compliant, silent female is typically the one to end up dead in a field somewhere.
If you don't like something, for your own sake -- as well as that of others -- SPEAK OUT!!!!! Be witty, be funny, be disgusted or be morose, but most importantly, be true o yourself. The life you save may be your own or someone else's, and by confronting your fears, you'll make friends with others who are capable of doing the same, and this is a lot more important -- and will get you a lot further -- than worrying about appeasing a bunch of idiots you secretly hold in contempt, which is a true waste of time if I ever saw one.
Response to Anonymous
tagged as:- result
Dear Anonymous,
I respect the fact that you find my work problematic. I also agree with you that vawnet is a terrific source of sexual assault programming ideas. However, I disagree with how you have characterized the programs I have created and I wonder if you are familiar with the most recent versions of them. The earliest versions of my work in the 90s, I admit, was problematic. There have been many changes to the videos used, the scripts of my programs, and to my own understanding of many issues in the movement to end sexual violence since then.
Indeed I have evaluated my work and published over a dozen articles evaluating The Men's Program. In my view it is important that people evaluate educational programs to see the degree to which they are effective, or not. Many of my evaluation studies are qualitative, which is a paradigm in which personal knowledge and perspective on a phenomena is highly valued instead of the rigidity of the separation found in the quantitative paradigm. Even so, the studies I have done that are quantitative have been subjected to rigorous peer review and then published in scholarly journals.
I'm not sure if you have published a book before, but one of the things about doing so is that you learn that the book publishing business much like the record industry -- the money goes to the publishers not the authors or artists. I earn 10% on each copy sold of my book, the publisher gets 90%. If you want to call that a substantial financial stake in my programs you can. Though I do not like to discuss it, I donate much more money to charities that work to end violence against women than I make off my book.
My impression is that you don't fully grasp all of the intricacies of how my current program is set up or the results of it; if you did, I don't think you would state that men are more likely to intervene after seeing the video in our program, that it is homophobic, etc. The Men's Program now has an additional section on bystander intervention that it did not have up until a couple years ago, which is why research now shows it to be effective in getting men to intervene as bystanders -- an article accepted this week in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence supports that assertion. The video my nonprofit re-shot depicts presumably heterosexual men committing rape of a police officer and goes to great lengths to attenuate homophobia, not perpetuate it. As for rape jokes, a study I published in Violence Against Women showed that 75% of men who see The Men's Program report that they either have stopped telling rape jokes or interrupt them as a result of having seen the program.
You assert that my work won't create a sustainable change in the work to end violence against women. I respect your right to maintain that point of view. My point of view is centered in the results of the research I have conducted, including Foubert, Newberry & Tatum, 2007 from the NASPA Journal. It showed that men who see The Men's Program report committing fewer acts of sexual assault than men who do not see the program. This was the first study in the research literature showing a behavioral difference in sexual assault when comparing program results of an experimental and control group in a longitudinal study. I call that sustainable, and I know that my commitment to ending men's violence against women is unending.
Sincerly,
John D. Foubert, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of College Student Development
Anderson, Farris, & Halligan Professor of Educational Studies
Oklahoma State University