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The Coming GOP Civil War
So what's next on the agenda for the Republican Party after this week's elections? The New York Times reports:
Despite Mr. Hoffman’s loss [in NY-23], many conservatives promised to press on with opposition to centrist Republican candidates. That vow intensified concerns among party leaders that the opportunities they see coming out of Tuesday’s results could be dimmed by intramural battles over whether to reach for the political center or do more to motivate the base on the party’s right.
....The debate has been fueled by a somewhat inchoate populist anger that has taken hold among grass-roots conservatives, encouraged in part by political leaders like Sarah Palin, the party’s vice-presidential nominee last year, and commentators like Glenn Beck of Fox News. In that sense, the divisions within the party extend beyond the traditional strains between the shrinking ranks of Republican moderates and the social and economic conservatives who have dominated the party in recent years.
As the party turns toward the 2010 midterm elections, pitched battles between moderates and conservatives — and between the Washington establishment and the conservative grass roots — are underway from Florida to Illinois to California. Conservative activists, emboldened after forcing out the moderate Republican nominee in a New York congressional race, said they will fan out nationwide and challenge Republican candidates whom they deem too moderate or insufficiently principled.
Well, good luck with that. Culture war purity battles may be adrenaline rushes for the Palin/Beck wing of the party, but they sure aren't for independents, no matter how soured they are on the economy or how disappointed they are in the Democratic Party. They may be able to muster some short-term mileage out of all this, but it's a long-term disaster.
One man's disaster
I think at some level we'd all like at least two serious candidates in every election, but if the GOP isn't going to take governing seriously -- and they haven't since at least 1994 -- then I can't really describe their self-destruction as a "disaster." It's more of a relief, really.
That sort of crazy shit
That sort of crazy shit won't win them a majority, but it can probably get them 41 disciplined seats in the Senate, and thus the ability to rule the country from the minority.
You think the wingnuts don't look at California GOP and see them as a shining example?
California has a liberal electorate, and yet the far right gets to control the budget and the major legislative priorities.
Republicans are smart enough to know that political power doesn't necessarily come from winning the most votes. They'd be happy to be a permanent minority party with the discipline to thwart the majority.
"thwart the majority"
You should read your history and study up on America. We are not a democracy. We do not have mob rule. We are a democratic republic. We elect representatives for government. California has suffered under the Democratic party and liberal policies for years and look where they are -- almost Bankrupt and now confiscating paychecks. If California liberals like that, then please remain in California and do not inflict your disease on the rest of the country. You might be the 8-th biggest economy, but at the rate you are going, you'll be the 20-th biggest before you know it. Whatever you do, please stay out of Texas.
I'm always happy to stay out of Texas.
And I'm not even from California. If you guys would just figure out a way to secede, we'd all be better off. We could still get the music off the web.
Lies,Lies and more damned lies.
First let me state I am an independent.2) that i have voted for both democratic and republican for those running for office.Let's be clear about this.The Conservative republicans,with the exception of the 8 years of Clinton in the executive branch,have been in power since 1980.Congress was a democratic majority during the Reagan years but was pussy-whipped by Reagan.We are in this mess because of conservative ideology gone amuck. Note I do not say republican here. We have two types of animals here,pragmatists in both parties ,who base their decisions on facts and act accordingly.Then there are who fit the facts to the the ideology in both parties. Reagan started as a idealog and became pragmatic.Carter was an idealog,Clinton was pragmatic(which is why righties hated him-he stole their thunder and forced the democratic party to the center)Nixon,Eisenhower and JFK were pragmatists. LBJ (in foreigin policy-Vietnam) was an idealog.Bush the first,pragmatist,Bush the second -Big time -starry-eyed idealog. For the last 8 years,I have watched the Republican party being hijacked by the right wing and special interests groups financing them. The party that once stood for fiscal restraint acted like lemmings running off a cliff.We are fighting 2 wars and for the first time in this nation's history we did not raise taxes to pay for them. By the way I blame Clinton and his embracement of NAFTA(conservative program) for some of the economic ills we face now.The original Reagan -all government is bad deregulation--good is as far to the right as the ideas of the far left are to the left stating the government can solve anything.Why is it that People forget that after Reagan cut taxes,he raised them 3 times. Calling them" revenue enhancements."--it was not raising taxes-yeah ,sure.
What I would like to see is a 3rd party independent of both parties, call it the pragmatic party.It would have to be bulit from the ground up. Barring that I have a modest proposal,as Jonathan Swift wrote. To guarantee transparency in government,members of congress could take as much money from corporations and lobbyists as they desired ,but they would have to be branded(like cattle) by who ever owned them. We could have a yearly capital round up with real cowboys from out west running down fat,waddling,greasy-fingered congressman and senators in the halls of the capitol.After roping them and being hog -tied they would be dragged to a spot open to the public where they would be branded by CEOS of the corporations and lobbyists that own them. Some members of congress would have so many brands they would like they were wearing NASCAR jackets.If you think I am joking,read Ariana Huffington's book Pigs at the trough.--paul
Who's anti-American now?
I agree, Republicans would be more than happy to stifle Democracy and popular rule anyhow, anyway.
To call such people patriots, or even Americans, is the height of ridiculous.
Fascism by any other name is still the same tyranny.
Jesus is coming, look busy.
That sort of crazy shit
That sort of crazy shit won't win them a majority, but it can probably get them 41 disciplined seats in the Senate, and thus the ability to rule the country from the minority.
You think the wingnuts don't look at California GOP and see them as a shining example?
California has a liberal electorate, and yet the far right gets to control the budget and the major legislative priorities.
Republicans are smart enough to know that political power doesn't necessarily come from winning the most votes. They'd be happy to be a permanent minority party with the discipline to thwart the majority.
valves
In that sense, the divisions within the party extend beyond the traditional strains between the shrinking ranks of Republican moderates and the social and economic conservatives who have dominated the party in recent years.
Thanks very much.
Well, once the GOP has
Well, once the GOP has purged itself of those insidious Front for Judean Liberation splitters, they'll emerge stronger than ever. Or something.
I'm sure it all makes sense if you have a brain the size of a teabag.
The Reps may be the
The Reps may be the Hindenburg, but the Dems look an awful lot like the Titanic these days. Smart politicians might want to abandon both parties and run as independents.
I love when the MSM focuses
I love when the MSM focuses on GOP's "civil war," but ignores the same problems within the Democratic Party. MoveOn.org is raising money to target the Blue Dogs, or any other Democratic senator or representative, that dares to oppose Obama and Pelosi's health care reform.
In essence, you have the same struggle in both parties: centrists being attacked on their flank, yet the MSM only covers the GOP.
I wonder why?
Because crazy people make better copy.
It's pretty simple. really.
"They may be able to muster
"They may be able to muster some short-term mileage out of all this, but it's a long-term disaster."
Wrong meme. Actually, this is an excellent idea for conservatives. The only way forward is ideological purity. People dig it. It's easy to understand and put on a bumper sticker and you look authoritative and decisive. The only way to bring independents to their side is to put forward socially conservative, economically conservative, militarily aggressive (and/or isolationist) candidates. If it ends up being the Republican Party so be it. If it ends up being the Conservative party or the Tea Bagging party, so be it. In fact maybe it's time to go back to our original roots and get some tea baggers in the white house.
Is this not obviously snark? Sorry about that.
"economically conservative"
"economically conservative" views will attract independents, says the teabagger above. Hah.
Thank God that most people understand that economic conservatism at this moment in history, teetering on the edge of actual economic depression, would amount to economic disaster. Balance the budget now, or move to reduce the deficits, and we'll see unemployment on the levels of 1933.
Only the reality deluded "teabaggers" ignore this reality. In any event, most people know that the last party to balance the budget, was not a party of conservatives. It was those nasty librul Democrats, led by Bill Clinton, who did it. As soon as the conservatives got in, they passed bank-breaking tax cuts and got us into two wars, and that's why we've got outrageous deficits now. So why should anybody trust Republicans, conservatives, or teabaggers, who have no real economic program except more ruinous tax cuts, now?
"Balance the budget now, or
"Balance the budget now, or move to reduce the deficits, and we'll see unemployment on the levels of 1933....In any event, most people know that the last party to balance the budget, was not a party of conservatives. It was those nasty librul Democrats, led by Bill Clinton, who did it. As soon as the conservatives got in, they passed bank-breaking tax cuts and got us into two wars, and that's why we've got outrageous deficits now."
Shorter David in NY: "Democrats always good, Republicans always bad."
Yeah, we've all heard this "analysis" before. Glad you noted that Clinton helped balance the budget. He only did it because of Republican pressure. And because he helped reform welfare, allowing the government to stop paying people to sit on their ass and not work. I seem to remember a lot of liberal wailing when he reformed welfare. And what do you know? Those lazy simpletons got off their asses, got jobs, paid taxes, which helped balance the budget.
Also, David, you probably should do a little research before uttering "they passed bank-breaking tax cuts and got us into two wars, and that's why we've got outrageous deficits now."
First, Bush's tax cuts actually increased tax receipts.
Second, Bush didn't get us into "two wars." Al-Qaeda got us into Afghanistan, a war that included bipartisan support. I don't remember one - not one - Demcrat in Congress or the Senate or any other major public position fight Bush on going into Afghanistan.
And yes, almost all Democrats voted to go into Iraq, based on the same intelligence that led the likes of Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Madeline Albright to assess that Saddam Hussein was trying to develop WMD and should be removed from power.
Really. Get out of the fever swamps and come back to reality.
Republicans have been TERRIBLE on the national debt
MacGruber, it's not just Democratic spin, it's fact. Republicans have been terrible on the national debt. As a percentage of GDP, the debt decreased from Truman through Carter. Then under Reagan/Bush I, it skyrocketed. It declined under Clinton, shot up again under Bush II.
Starting with Reagan, Republicans gave up on being fiscally responsible. They are only interested in rewarding their backers with taxcuts, regardless of its effects on the debt.
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
Your claim that Bush's tax
Your claim that Bush's tax cuts raised revenues is beside the point. It raised revenues, but it deepened the debt tremendously, just like Reagan's tax cuts. What good is increasing revenues if the average American is not benefited and the federal gets worse?
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
I find it rather hilarious
I find it rather hilarious that Sarah Palin is the face of this conservative economic populism which I'm supposed to believe is about opposition to government spending and support of fiscal responsibility.
Sarah Palin is from the socialist paradise of Alaska, where every year the government sends every inhabitant a check from profits of the people's collectively owned state oil reserves. They are also dependent on spectacular handouts from the federal government--some of the highest (if not THE highest) spending per capita.
This movement is not about less big government. It is about more big government for rural areas and for old people. Financed by deficits and by cuts to spending in suburban areas and cities. All they are opposed to is spending on cities and suburbs.
The leader of this movement was literally the governor of the most socialist and big-government dependent state in America! Their motto isn't "less big government" it's "less big government for you, so there can be more for me!"
Short term could last until Nov. 3, 2010
The combination of red-hot GOP enthusiasm and a tepid off-year turnout could deliver the House back to the Reps, or at least to a Rep-Blue Dog cabal. Remember 1994 when Gingrich obliterated Republican moderates and clobbered Democrats of all stripes?
In NY-23, the Democrats' vote totals for 2004, 2006, 2008, were 66,448, 62,318, and 69,112.
Last week, Owen got 61,666. There were 125,117 ballots cast, a turnout only somewhat lower than that of previous off-year elections: 137,735, 124,682, 169,099. Hoffmann did not win, as such candidates often do, because of very low turnout.
He got 57,073, running in a third party against a Democrat endorsed by the Republican. He would have destroyed Scozzafava in a primary and beaten Owen in the general.
The Palin wing is going to purge or cow every Republican moderate in the primaries. These right-wing Republicans will enter the general elections with the full support of their party. They'll need some luck, but I wouldn't bet against them.
What's with all the
What's with all the teabaggers running around DC today on a work day? Why don't those people get jobs? Or are they all retired and using their SS checks to fight socialism.
NY 23rd
Let's see, the first Democrat is elected in a district since 1872 and this is a referendum for the GOP? The Jacobins who now think anything left of Attila is now a 'traitor' are in for a rude awakening. White, old, and rural. And yet Owens won.
"Let's see, the first
"Let's see, the first Democrat is elected in a district since 1872 and this is a referendum for the GOP?"
Since 1872? Think again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York%27s_23rd_congressional_district
Reading is fundamental
"Since 1872? Think again."
You should read the article you're linking to. The 23rd district's composition has changed a lot over the years. It used to include (until the 1980s) the Bronx and/or Manhattan.
The area currently included in the 23rd district, according to the article you cited, has long been Republican:
"The area comprising this district has historically been one of the most Republican in the United States. Most of the area in what is NY-23 has not been represented by a Democrat since the 19th century. A large portion, including the largest city, Watertown, has not been represented by a Democrat since the 1850s. In parts of the district, the last non-Republican Representative was a Whig."
Independents
I disagree about Independents. Anyone calling themselves an "Independent" right now is a Teabagger.
The Coming Democrat Civil War
http://www.moveon.org/
If a Democratic Senator helps block an up-or-down vote on health care reform, there need to be consequences. We've launched the Health Care Accountability Pledge so that a primary challenge against any Democrat who filibusters would get off to a well-funded start
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/A-d...
MoveOn.org is sending out emails today seeking more contributions for its campaign to defeat any Democratic senator who does not fully support Obamacare. Yesterday the left-wing activist group asked members to contribute "to a primary challenge against any Democratic senator who helps Republicans block an up-or-down vote on health care reform." Today, MoveOn reports that it has received $2 million in pledges in less than 24 hours. "It's a clear sign of how angry progressives would be at any Democrat who helps filibuster reform," MoveOn executive director Justin Ruben writes in the new email.
"The larger the war chest we can offer a potential challenger, the stronger the signal we'll send to conservative Democrats," Ruben continues. "So we're setting a huge new goal: $3 million in total pledges by the end of the week. That's plenty to launch a serious primary challenge."
MoveOn is already planning radio ads targeting Louisiana Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu and Arkansas Democratic Sen. Blanche Lincoln over the health care issue.
The Coming Democratic Civil War
Get real - you think the GOP has a problem?
http://www.moveon.org/
If a Democratic Senator helps block an up-or-down vote on health care reform, there need to be consequences. We've launched the Health Care Accountability Pledge so that a primary challenge against any Democrat who filibusters would get off to a well-funded start
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/A-d...
MoveOn.org is sending out emails today seeking more contributions for its campaign to defeat any Democratic senator who does not fully support Obamacare. Yesterday the left-wing activist group asked members to contribute "to a primary challenge against any Democratic senator who helps Republicans block an up-or-down vote on health care reform." Today, MoveOn reports that it has received $2 million in pledges in less than 24 hours. "It's a clear sign of how angry progressives would be at any Democrat who helps filibuster reform," MoveOn executive director Justin Ruben writes in the new email.
"The larger the war chest we can offer a potential challenger, the stronger the signal we'll send to conservative Democrats," Ruben continues. "So we're setting a huge new goal: $3 million in total pledges by the end of the week. That's plenty to launch a serious primary challenge."
MoveOn is already planning radio ads targeting Louisiana Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu and Arkansas Democratic Sen. Blanche Lincoln over the health care issue.
Lets see. The GOP just lost
Lets see. The GOP just lost a safe House seat when right-wing fanatics drove the party nominee out of the race. (The general election just happened, so it's pretty funny to see right-wing republicans in this thread claiming that their candidate would prevail in such an election.) A sitting GOp senator switched parties under threat. Right wing challengers are facing off against essentially all remaining moderate Republicans.
Democrats might run ads pressuring their elected officials.
Clearly the Democrats have the bigger problem.
"You should read your
"You should read your history and study up on America. We are not a democracy. We do not have mob rule. We are a democratic republic. We elect representatives for government. California has suffered under the Democratic party and liberal policies for years and look where they are -- almost Bankrupt and now confiscating paychecks. If California liberals like that, then please remain in California and do not inflict your disease on the rest of the country. You might be the 8-th biggest economy, but at the rate you are going, you'll be the 20-th biggest before you know it. Whatever you do, please stay out of Texas."
Jesus Christ keep your talking points straight. I know Nancy Pelosi is a "big spending liberal" and she's from California, but that doesn't mean liberalism has any power at the state level.
We've had nothing but Republican governors, for the last 30 years, aside from five years of Gray Davis, and we've had the 2/3 budget requirement that entire time.
State spending in California has been declining in per person terms for years.
California was a great state when it was run by liberal Democrats and moderate Republicans. Since Prop 13 it's been run by a combination of special interest groups and far right ideologues.
And thanks for demonstrating my point. The right doesn't give a shit about democratic legitimacy. They want power. A bloc of 41 hard right senators give them that.
What's in a name
I have a real problem with these radicals calling themselves conservatives. I think it would be helpful if they were called what they actually are: self-aggrandizing power hungry neo-fascist wing-nuts. The same people who like to shout "Socialist" and "Communist" at Barack Obama are the people who cheered when the Bush administration secretly tapped your phone, fabricated intelligence and invaded a sovereign nation without course, and set up secret prisons and torture. Now...if that doesn’t sound like communism, what does?
As long as nuts like Beck, Limbaugh, and Palin keep feeding into these people's fears that the government or the "liberals" or whoever is secretly subverting the American way...they will continue with their knee jerk anger.
By the way the same thing goes for the ultra-radicals on the left. In any case these crazies should be called what they are. Radicals. In any case I agree with the author. Trying to turn the Republican Party into the "party of angry white guys" will be a long term loser...
While a current republican meltdown wouldn't hurt my feelings
While the a right wing melt down wouldn't hurt my feelings it falls into be careful what you wish for. At this moment the right wing wants to take away my right to love whom I wish, for two consenting adults to have sex with whom I wish and make me join a conservative christian church. The far left wants to take away my rights to own dogs, train dogs and breed dogs. They also would like to take away my right to make a living as I raise Organic free range cattle and sheep on the side, I'm actually on paper a plumber, the hobby farm is what's keeping my family from going under these days. They also want to take away my right to have a gun. My point is both parties have wack jobs in it and I think the best we can hope for is the wack jobs on the right cancel the wack jobs on the left.
As for health care reform we need to do something as 50% of my friends that are still working work for small companies that no longer offer heath insurance to thier employees. Small business, sole propriators can't afford it and really what we want is health care not health insurance we as a whole don't care who pays the bill as long as I can go to the doctor. As for taxes I figure taxes are going up no matter whose in charge You cannot fight a war and not raise taxes, the democrats tried it in the 60's and 70's we paid for it in the 80's. The republican's are trying it now and guess what between that and wall street the economy melted down. History repeats itself
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