- ‹ previous
- 4578 of 7913
- next ›
Blaming the Virginia Tech Victims, and Blaming the Blamers
Here's what two conservatives idiots had to say in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech tragedy. These comments are not only in incredibly poor taste, but demonstrate such poor judgment and such a complete lack of understanding of basic human instincts, it makes one wonder why the people who said them still have a venue to spout their opinions.
John Derbyshire, from the conservative National Review (yeah, this guy):
Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn't anyone rush the guy? It's not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness' sake—one of them reportedly a .22.
At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him... And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage—your chances aren't bad.
Yes, yes, I know it's easy to say these things: but didn't the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything?
Nathaniel Blake of the conservative Human Events Online:
College classrooms have scads of young men who are at their physical peak, and none of them seems to have done anything beyond ducking, running, and holding doors shut. Meanwhile, an old man hurled his body at the shooter to save others.
Something is clearly wrong with the men in our culture. Among the first rules of manliness are fighting bad guys and protecting others: in a word, courage. And not a one of the healthy young fellows in the classrooms seems to have done that. …
Like Derb, I don't know if I would live up to this myself, but I know that I should be heartily ashamed of myself if I didn't.
And thankfully, the strongest condemnation comes from conservative quarters, proving there is sanity on that side of the aisle. Derbyshire's colleague at the National Review, John Podhoretz, steps in:
I have to dissent, in the strongest possible terms, from John Derbyshire's shocking posts on Virginia Tech. The notion that a human being or group of human beings holding no weapon whatever should somehow "fight back" against someone calmly executing other people right in front of their eyes is ludicrous beyond belief, irrational beyond bounds, and tasteless beyond the limits of reason.
Amen, brother. Now get your coworker who is "ludicrous beyond belief, irrational beyond bounds, and tasteless beyond the limits of reason" booted from your office.
Digg
Reddit
Twitter
Facebook
Buzz Up!
StumbleUpon
MySpace
LinkedIn
Delicious
Furl
Google
Yahoo
They are right. Where are the real men now days. They are a bunch of "girly men" and "metro sexual." In my adventures, I always like a real man like the Skipper. Doc was OK.
Wow! I thought that people like Anna Nicole and Brittany were the lowest of the lows in our society. These two prove me wrong!
Shame on them.
KB
Not to mention that some of the slain individual may very well have attempted to stop the murderer. That they didn't live to tell us cannot logically be taken to indicate that they did not attempt self-defense!
Ginger, you sound like a" healthy young fellow", or whatever. If "manliness" is fighting or killing "bad guys", then alot of people shouild kill themselves? Sexual ignorance and repression has, over millenia created mindsets and monsters that tend towards various perverse expressions.Take the Catholic church and it's penchant for pedophilic priests.The exterminition of females primarily, as "witches" during the Middle Ages? Recently, Amish girls were murdered, the little boys spared. The Christian community lauded the Amish for showing the world, "dignity", by "forgiving" the murderer for killing little girls. Little was said about the gender-defined targets, or why he targeted them. What about Hitler, our favorite Christian? One shining example of "righteousness", and "manliness", and "power". One of most reliable monster- mindsets is the American-style, bland accessment of females as (secondary), sex-objectified, or politically or financially "profitable" to males, and thus also expendable, entities. We are told, that it is the "proper role" of females to support males. For carrying on the "bloodline"... for "breeding". Males over the world are considered more "valuable", and, this is the sad lie. The "provocative, deceitful female " has been identified as causal; origin of everything that can be victimized without consequence. Bought and sold. Enslaved. Chattle. But mostly brainwashed. Pity that. Maybe Emily jilted or ignored Cho Seung-Ho? He wasn"t getting any, no doubt. Neither was Hitler. The language of beauty; of peace; of equality as "persons"...and the culture that supports these concepts...will perhaps flourish again. We do not yet know when or where.
Ginger - apparently you are getting senile in your old age. There was no Doc on the island, you Hollywood twit, it was The Professor! Oh, and give my love to Mary Ann.
Questioning whether anyone (man or woman) fought back or "tried to take him out" or whatever -- that's reasonable. Questioning can lead to understanding, preparation and prevention. But you can't get more ignorantly arrogant than to say "It's just a .22, throw yourself in front of it." How about 1) knowing what it's like to get shot by a .22, even if where you were hit wasn't "important" and 2) holding out until reports from the people that were there and survived it are complete and you have more information?
It's people like Derbyshire that test my commitment to non-violence.
The point is that we women expect men to protect us. "Girly man" are not raised by their mothers to be real man. Country boys know how to be real men. These "Metrosexual" men don't. The Governor from California, that body builder, would have went down fighting for the women. If the school allowed students to carry guns, Cho would not have dared to do what he did. I know how to use a gun. I carry mace in my purse. Got a big dog at home too.
Sounds like the politically-correct-but-wrong-in-every-other-sense Mondragon would have a hard time getting a date with the women posters here. But enough about him.
I would just say as a veteran that we have a motto, "If you weren't there, then keep your mouth shut." Meaning, if you weren't there, don't tell us how you think the ones who WERE there shoulda-woulda-coulda done it better.
Actually, now that I think of it, I think King Henry V said it this way (I'm not going to get this quote exactly right, but please bear with me): "Men abed in England shall think themselves accursed and hold their manhoods cheap whilst speak any who fought with us upon St. Crispin's Day!"
Yes,
No Balls? to rush this [deleted] and bang his [deleted] head against the wall pull the fire alarm and bitch slap that sick [deleted]?
Get your thickest textbook and rush him?
grab a desk and smash his [deleted]?
I agree with Frank?
All you self- contained snobs, laptop intellectuals and intelligent school book geniuses in the room and no one could not have tried to stop this sick fool?
You let a PHD. Scientist die for you? A precious Man of knowledge, heritage and dignity, Leader of Importance protect you without helping him?
That is what you get when you rely on others and let others, less fortunate wait hand and foot and support you; hiding behind your rich statis and soft life?
I cry for America and my future!
There is strength in Numbers but all of you little girls and boys sat on your asses and waited for the "Fairy God Waiter" to solve the problem?
You and the "Born Again Politically Correct ban of Hypocrites can now lick your wounds and cry big tearsby letting this nut continue to kill without be contested.
Let us put in airport type security at the campuses. The students demand security from their follow students. I know, I am a college student and most of them are insane, compared to me.
It never ceases to amaze that the "girliest" of men among us, those who send others to fight illegal wars but who did everything in their rich daddy's power to avoid fighting in one themselves and, those who make their living sitting on their fat asses endorsing the former chicken-shits and otherwise mouthing off, are the first ones to point a finger at someone else for not being as "manly" as they imagine themselves to be. If these idiots are so manly, why aren't they out loading trucks, raking concrete and installing iron on high-rises?
It is not fair to Morons to call these people morons and most certainly, it isn't fair to women to call them the "girliest" of men, for which I apologize to the girls of America, 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999 percent of whom are undoubtedly more courageous than these idiots will ever be in their wildest of crackpot imaginations.
I think Neal young made an appropriate song, quoting a passenger from flight 93. "Let's Roll!"
That's right. Roll on those bastards! If I ever face the possibility of laying down to be executed. I swear, I will fight until they put me down.
I have been in a few situations with guns being involved. And as I look back at some of them I can remember the ones who pissed in their pants and a yellow streak that went down their back as long as from here to forever. They were the ones who in earlier conversations had expressed what they would do in said type situations. What a joke! The profile is the same as the ones talking about what some should have done in (their opinion) but aren't capable of themselves. As for this gun thing, I know for a fact that the only sensible way you can stop a person bent on doing anything of this nature is for you to have a gun yourself. Remember this! The one's talking about taking away your gun won't be there when you are your family needs one.
The Governor of California probably would have protected the women, IF IT WAS IN THE SCRIPT OF A MOVIE YOU IDIOT! Unfortunately, we are not in a movie but in real life...and the Governor is not the terminator but a weak puppet for Pete Wilson.
you are all nuts. These two should be tarred and feathered, in front of the student body and faculty of Virginia Tech, with the families of the victims in the front rows. Morons. Must be miserable people to be around. Disgusting. Amazed that anyone gives them any space at all to say [deleted] like that.
As a third-degree black belt in aikido - and a Quaker, and a cofounder of our local peace group - let me suggest that there is a middle ground to this question. Not the question of whether the two writers are, shall we say, lacking in some key social graces - that's plenty clear - but the question of how people should respond to such situations, and how to best train/prepare them so that they can respond effectively without being reckless.
I would like to suggest martial arts training as part of the physical education curriculum, from at least fifth grade onward. As an aikidoka, I of course have a prejudice towards aikido, since it is a non-aggressive, purely defensive art, one that focuses on maintaining the kind of centeredness under stress that one has to have in order to survive a chaotic situation, but other "internal" arts such as t'ai chi and chi kung would also be immensely useful for children and young adults to learn.
I am not advocating the creation of little Chuck Norris or Steven Seagal wannabes, mind you. But solid training in basic self-defense techniques, conducted by competent instructors, would have multiple benefits beyond emergency preparedness - for starters, the amount of school-related bullying should decrease precipitously.
Adding to the pile of idiots, Newt Gingrich has blamed the VT killings on "liberalism," giving the NRA branch of the Reich Wing a brand new bumper sticker: "Guns don't kill people. Liberalism kills people." And before 24 hours had elapsed, Rush Limbaugh, expert on everthing from painkillers to Parkinson's Disease, implied that fewer kids would have been killed if they just weren't so slow getting out of the way.
Yes, folks, this is why it's called "compassionate conservatism."
skip, agree with you.
i think if more had martial arts training, they would be more confident, controlled, discplined (mentally and physically)...
and less dependent on guns. they would be more aware of their surroundings too.
don't let the gun industry dictate the discussion...
the social reality is that there are people with mental illnesses and no one around to help. they live, kill, and die alone. but their victims are too numerous...
Wow...these two are true idiots. Congrats to them for saying two of the stupidest cruelest remarks I've ever heard.
A note to Mondragon: I agree with your words about gender stereotypes and female oriented violence but I believe the killer of the Amish girls was said to have done that to get revenge (on God? happy parents?) for the death of his own baby girl. Just fyi.
I'm amazed at the lack of common sense and compassion these Monday morning quarterbacks possess. There is much scientific data regarding those who are able to be courageous in life threatening situations and those who are not. I'm sure everyone would like to be a hero, it's just that they're not capable. The "lets roll" people had time to think and develop a strategy, it's obvious these students were taken by surprise in a very violent way. There are probably survivors who wish they had been capable of stopping him and I don't think ignorant comments like these are going to accomplish anything. I think the lack of intelligence and compassion indicates these writers probably need to go the way of Don Imus.
It is foolhardy to call someone else a coward until your own courage has been similarly tested: you never know what you'll do until you've been there yourself. Real heroes don't advertise their own deeds nor do they blame others who fail to match their heroism?
Mondragon,
in your breathless tirade(Mondragon on 04/20/07 at 1:15 PM)
you threw a gauntlet at Christians with the most blatant one..
"What about Hitler, our favorite Christian?"
Your utter ignorance of the Nazis and the Cult of Personality and actual backround of the evil Corporal is evidently matched by your amatuerish attempts at linkage between Christianity and Nazism.
The Masonic and pagan roots and actuality of the Nazis and Hitler are not a secret....ever heard of the Spear of Destiny..or Herman Raushnning?..the Theosophical Society underpinnings of the Nazis and the servile mouthpiece of Mr. Hitler are plain to view and research....so are tne THOUSANDS of Christians EXECUTED IN THE CAMPS....or are YOU a denyer???
Your bias against Christianity probably precludes you from admitting that that Deitrich Bonhoeffer was persecuted and executed by the Nazis for his Faith.....
You and your ilk are the ones who build camps....
LOOK AT THE PHOTOS HE MADE OF HIMSELF, BOTH PISTOLS ARE AT LEAST 9 MM BY CALIBER, NO .22 HERE, JUDGING BY THE SIZE OF THE BORES. THIS GUY WENT INTO IT KNOWING HE WAS GONNA DIE. HE WAS PSYCHED OUT. EVEN AN ARMED GUARD WOULD HAVE HAD A SERIOUS PROBLEM MATCHING HIS "MOJO". ALL THOSE CLASSMATES WERE JUST READY FOR ANOTHER DAY OF THE SAME OLD, THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE. REALLY A PITY HE DIDN'T JUST BAKE MASS AMOUNTS OF BROWNIES WITH TURBO EX-LAX AND STEAL ALL THE TOILET PAPER LIKE ANY NORMAL STUDENT. TRULY REVENGE OF THE NERDS GONE MAD :(
As for those NRA types and National Review "chickenhawks" who were so quick to criticize the men(and women presumably) students at VT who didn't rush the attacker or who criticize the gun ban on campuses across the Commonwealth, it is worth remembering former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark in his magisterial "Crime In America" (Simon and Schuster, 1970)-" a society where each person carries a weapon to defend himself is one bordering on anarchy-not democracy. The fastest gun survives- not necessarily the law abiding person but the psychotic or the criminal" Thi is the same sort of nonsensical argument that said if the passengers on the 9/11 flights had guns to confront their hijackers, they might have saved the day( that's all we need- shootouts at 30,000 feet!)
When will common sense prevail and America join the ranks of democracies(Australia, Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK and France) that tightly limit gun ownership???
Obviously these individuals have never served in the military or lived in a neighborhood in which a person has a better chance of sustaining a bullet wound than sustaining gainful employment. I say so because as anyone who has lived under such conditions as I have would know that a person can say whatever they want when safely having her or his needs provided but when faced with a life-or-death situation find the very inconvenient and very disturbing truth about himself under stress.
One finds out the truth about himself or herself when facing an individual with an implement that could end a life. A servicemember is trained to deal with such situations but college students have been denied such training. No college student goes to class thinking that he or she might die that day the way soldiers, sailors, Marines, Coast Guardsmen and women and airmen and women must and no college student should have to.
It is very easy to talk from a distance about what to do when facing an individual with a firearm. Having done so, we have the right to say it is not easy to do so knowing that this could be the end of your life.
My sympathies go out to the families of those victims and the family of that poor disturbed young man. While I appreciate the gesture of one Mr. Park to apologize for what his countryman did, he has no reason to feel ashamed if he did not do the crime himself.
But I withhold my sympathies for John Derbyshire and Nathaniel Blake when unfortunate circumstances come upon them as those of us who know that what goes around comes around are certain will happen. It sickens me that these individuals should urinate and defecate on the mass graves of college children. They and those who share their cowardly views are the ones who need to apologize and feel ashamed, Mr. Park, not you, sir. You committed no crime. Being from the same country is no crime.
Unfortunately, saying the idiocies of John Derbyshire and Nathaniel Blake are not either. People like my wife and I put our lives on the line so that they can say such things. Neither she nor I have ever regretted having done so until now.
So I say to John Derbyshire and Nathaniel Blake if they have the very courage they decry college kids for lacking to ever read this: if you find yourself in a neighborhood like South Central Los Angeles or Oakland or even if some idiots try to rob your bank while you're making deposits or withdrawls, if nobody sees your name in an obituary ¨Conservative Collumnist Killed Trying to Foil Heist,¨ the world will know you for the cowards you are.
Nathaniel Blake needs to get his facts straight. The "old man" did not throw himself at the shooter; he was holding the door shut and Cho fired through the door.
why are you propagating this?
It's filth, please leave it in the sewer
The old man was courageous, the young were scared.
Don't pin this on us "right-wingers." Libs have said it too.
Where's your condemnation of them??
Why is it that when folks do terrible things their supporters always say, "Well, everyone does it!" or "[Liberals, the Broncos, other Roller Derby players,...] did worse things!"
Is it perhaps the same reason I did it as a child? To divert attention from my "bad"? Fortunately my parents were not a as easily bamboozled, so I got the punishment I deserved.
Should we tar and feather all "right wingers" because of the behavior of these particularly illustrious members of that clan? Probably not, but not because liberals did something or didn't do something. That would be climbing down the same rathole with no cheese, right? But then, you would have to be at least as smart as a rat to figure that out.
Know that everyone has put the blame where there is none. Research by many medical professional's have linked the cause to " antidepressent drugs" All of the schools that had shooters where on them and mothers that kill their own children where all on them. Put the blame where it belongs.
I understand that the gun the killer was using, while not a machine gun, could fire up to 50 bullets very quickly, and could be quickly reloaded.
And in all fairness, I would probably be huddled on the ground, hoping like hell the killer did not see me. These things usually go down too fast for most people to react to them. Would even a trained soldier have tried to disarm the killer?
And one of them did fight back in a way. There was that Holocaust survivor who blocked the door of his classroom, so that his students had time to get out the window.
You're inside a classroom--or even the offices of a well-known right-wing publication. There are shots in the hall. Then there are shots through the door of the room you're in. You don't know how many people are out there. Yeah, Derbyshire and Blake...you're gonna rush out and throw yourself blindly in front of the gun or guns. In your dreams, you mean-spirited blowhards...