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CIA Agents and Their Practices On Trial in Italy
Twenty-six American citizens, most of them believed to be CIA agents, just went on trial in Italy, but it's the Bush Administration's policies on extraordinary rendition and torture that are really under fire.
The accused themselves are in little danger. In 2003, they allegedly kidnapped a Muslim cleric in Milan and transported him to Germany and then to Egypt, where the cleric claims he suffered electric shocks, beatings, rape threats, and genital abuse while under interrogation. With what we know now about the war on terror, the allegations are almost certainly true -- the only tricky question is whether the Italians have accused the right 26 people. It doesn't much matter, because they're being tried in absentia and the United States refuses to extradite them. Their chances of serving time in Italy or anywhere else are less than zero.
So even though they're holding what amounts to a show trial, kudos to the Italians. While I'm uncomfortable with actually convicting the CIA agents of anything, since they are likely little more than foot soldiers, it's unquestionable that holding up the war on terror's ugliest aspects to bright lights is something we need more of, in Italy, around the world, and especially here at home.
Even though is is a show trial, a conviction will put them on the Interpol wanted list, which may lead to their arrest if they leave the safety of the US.
I could not agree more about
I could not agree more about the fact that they are the foot soldiers taking command. The military and all its components are departmentalized. This is something that the general population may not realize. Two people on the same team might not even know what the other one is really doing. When a soldier is sent in, he does not always know why they might be doing a task or are given a reason without the big picture.
The agents transported him, but they did not know the big picture. They thought they were doing something noble. They are soldiers and we should not be so quick to hang them. Now, let's really talk about the real issue- who planned that big picture? It was not even the agents in Italy. - By the way I am totally anti-Nazi. I also believe in human rights- that is why I think we should look at this carefully. No one should be tortured, but now we are torturing these men who were taking orders. Sit and talk with some soldiers form Iraq- if they will share with you- they were ordered to do things many of them have nightmares about to this day and may for a long time. Just make sure to look at both sides.
I'm unclear on why you are "uncomfortable" with convicting the agents. Surely you are not advancing the Nazi "orders" defense. What they are accused of is a Crime Against Humanity. Same as Hitler. They are not less guilty because there are others who are also guilty.
Well, Mr. Gonzales, since you broke Godwin's law and invoked the Nazis, I wonder if you also opposed Mossad's kidnapping of Adolf Eichmann from Argentina to face trial in Israel?
I also wonder if it occured to anyone here to also criticize Egypt? You know - the actual country that allegedly tortured Nasr?
More info here:
http://shieldofachilles.blogspot.com/2007/06/what-media-is-not-telling-y...
What About Egypt
You make a really good point Jon- what about Egypt? We are focusing on the "soldiers" and not the country that actually did the torturing. That seems wrong to me. I also agree that they were soldiers taking orders. I find it hard to believe that they really did know- the sloppy phone records and openness was clearly because they thought they were doing something right. If they feared what they were doing as something wrong and knew the big picture they would have been more careful than that. I think the whole thing is a mess, but I think it is being sorted through wrong. This trial has gone on forever and these men were following orders- let them go and let's go after the planner at the top and the Egyptians.
I know of friends who did go to Iraq and yes they had to do things that they did not like. I can only imagine if they all had to go to trial. War is ugly. I also find it interesting that we are making such a big deal out of this when the IRS can come into American homes with loaded assault rifles for a family who owes some tax money. But we are punishing soldiers who were going after a bad man who wanted to help kill large numbers of people. I think we American's had better get our priorities straight.
Slam the book at Egypt
Finally someone is using their reasoning. I agree dude. It is a scary thing to think that professionals have been handling this case. The agents were soldiers and the big guy should be the one on trial. Egypt should be in trouble. How hard is this to see? I think we are turning against a group of people that took orders and did what they were told and they did NOT do the torturing- they just nabbed a dude they were told was a terrorist- they thought they were heroes and risking their lives. This thing is messed up, but lets not be too surprised. The media has a way of focusing on special interests of others to distract from the real issues.