What a great post!

As someone that is terrible with numbers, no wonder why I am so impressed with Biden.
He amazes me in so many ways.

Joe Biden reminds me the most of West Wing's President Bartlett out of the entire field, and his propensity to spout figures like this is a big part of it. He's freakishly smart sometimes. Other times, you start checking your text messages; but mostly it's the good stuff.

I wonder if he plagiarized the numbers? That is what Joe does, you know.

In these troubled and dire time we live in, Joe Biden, to me, encompasses all that we desperately need for our nation:

1) Intelligence
2) Experience in ALL phases of government
3) Strength
4) Respect from world leaders
5) Diplomacy
6) Command of issues
7) Solutions to problems that face our nation
8) Honesty
9) Integrity
10) Respect and trust from his peers
11) Respect and trust from the people who follow him
12) an EXPERT in foreign policy

Joe Biden certainly meets ALL of the criteria above.

I pray and hope every day that Mr. & Mrs. America, the people of Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina know in their hearts, that if we lose Joe Biden, we'll have lost one of the best Presidents our nation will ever have.

Please watch a video I produced to show my support for Senator Biden. If you support him, please send the link below to family and friends, and ask them to do the same.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OtGCaqOdIJ4

From the old days

Democratic presidential candidate Joseph R. Biden Jr., a U.S. senator from Delaware, was driven from the nomination battle after delivering, without attribution, passages from a speech by British Labor party leader Neil Kinnock. A barrage of subsidiary revelations by the press also contributed to Biden's withdrawal: a serious plagiarism incident involving Biden during his law school years; the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record at a New Hampshire campaign event; and the discovery of other quotations in Biden's speeches pilfered from past Democratic politicians.

*****

"A good politician is quite as unthinkable as an honest burglar."
~ H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

c'mon "capt", enough with the plaguerism references. that was 20 years ago and was only drudged up to advance Maureen Dowd's career. do you still wear tapered, stone-washed jeans and hypercolor t-shirts too? how about thinking in the here and now.

It is an issue of integrity and honesty, other than that it is old news indeed.

******

Joe Biden’s history of plagiarism and “stressless scholarship” gave plenty of ammo to his enemies, one of them choosing to circulate a so-called “attack video” to demonstrate Biden’s outright plagiarism of a British politician’s speech. But this appropriation from Neal Kinnock was not the first occurrence of unacknowledged lifting by the senator from Delaware.

In 1965 Biden plagiarized while writing a paper as a student at the Syracuse University Law School in a legal methods course which he failed because of that copied paper. Such “stressless scholarship” as it is euphemistically called has become all too common in the modern Internet era with countless cheatsites and “research services” offering to sell students papers on topics from A to Z.

Biden’s case demonstrates that student plagiarism is nothing new. Only the methods of cheating have changed. Today, cheating has gone digital with the proliferation of Internet based paper filing and distributions systems, but the principles—or lack thereof—are the same. And as the Biden case illustrates, getting caught for such academic dishonesty may have serious ramifications for one’s political career. Joe Biden’s failed bid for the Democratic ticket is a case in point.

*****

i completely agree with everything you just said. integrity and honesty are very important. so what if he "lifted" a few things back in college (40 years ago!!!!) but there's no proof that he did it on purpose. if that were the case, then yes, his integrity and honesty should be in doubt.

bush did who knows how much coke and almost drank himself to death in "college", look where that got him, into the white house.

now, if biden were to get caught doing something during THIS campaign season, my opinion would definitely change. however, i find that very unlikely to happen. and it's been said that the main reason he dropped out of his last campaign was not really for getting "caught", but he was worried that the bad press would hurt his chances of keeping Bork off the supreme court, so he went with the decision that would help the entire country, not just himself. that sounds like integrity to me. if Bork would have made it to the supreme court, we would probably have thousands of married couples in jail for using birth control right now.

Don't mistake my posting as being anything except a reference to problems in Biden's past and present. Problems that would likely be brought up against him by other politicians (as they have in the past) - THAT effects my opinion - but just my opinion. If it doesn't effect yours - no big dealio.

The whole thing is his fault not mine as he was caught doing the same thing recently in a speech and he laughed about it.

I just get a kick out of it when anybody speaks about how honest ANY politician is. It would disqualify them for the position without any consideration of party or position on issues.

By and large, and to near exclusivity - politicians suck. Even Joe.

From Wiki on Plagiarism

Senator Joseph Biden

Biden was forced to withdraw from the 1988 Democratic Presidential nominations when it was alleged that he had failed a 1965 introductory law school course on legal methodology due to plagiarism. "Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., fighting to salvage his Presidential campaign . . . acknowledged 'a mistake' in his youth, when he plagiarized a law review article for a paper he wrote in his first year at law school. Mr. Biden insisted, however, that he had done nothing 'malevolent,' that he had simply misunderstood the need to cite sources carefully."[55] Biden withdrew from the race September 23, 1987, and reported the law school incident to the Delaware Supreme Court. The court's Board of Professional Responsibility cleared him of any allegations.[56]
Biden was also accused of plagiarizing portions of his speeches, and that he had copied several campaign speeches, notably those of British Labour leader Neil Kinnock and Senator Robert F. Kennedy. He denied those charges. "And he asserted that another controversy, concerning recent reports of his using material from others' speeches without attribution, was 'much ado about nothing.'"[57]

*****

He admits and deflects - just like all other politicians:

That'd be plagiarism as 'much ado about nothing' and THAT is dishonesty dismissed.

IMHO

Capt, if the only thing they have against this man is that he failed to attribute a quote in a speech 20 years ago (which he used often and attributed often) then I'd say he's pretty squeaky clean. Let's remember the other candidates:

Clinton who has enough baggage to fill a cargo ship--re: Whitewater, hiding White House papers, staying married to a cheating husband, etc. etc.

Obama: Went to a Muslim school, forced others off of the ballot in his Illinois elections, has said paraphrase {our troops are only air raiding villages and killing civilians} and voted against funding the troops.

Edwards: Uses that story about getting in his sons casket everywhere he goes, attempts to get sympathy because of wife's plight, $400 haircuts, $500,000 payment for speech on poverty and the list goes on.

Now you're beloved Republicans

Giuliani: NY mayor, uses "Noun, verb, and 9/11" for sentence, married cousin, divorced wife in Press Conference, Children don't support him (hardly family values)

Romney: Flip-flopper, Mormon, Slick Willy look to him.

Thompson: Enough said.

Paul: Wacko joke of a candidate with even crazier supporters. He's a libertarian (we don't elect those in this country)

McCain: Too old, washed up, beaten down...sad really.

In case it wasn't immediately clear: JOE BIDEN 2008!

"he's pretty squeaky clean"

Obviously, if you are blind to his faults he is the man!

Nothing wrong with supporting your choice.

"Went to a Muslim school"

It was my understanding that the above was part of a smear?

Do you have a source for that?

As a child, Obama spent four years in Indonesia with his step-father, a non-practicing Muslim, and his mother. Between ages 6 and 8, Obama attended a local Muslim school in Jakarta; after that, he was enrolled in a Roman Catholic school. In his book Dreams Of My Father (p.142), Obama writes:

In Indonesia, I’d spent 2 years at a Muslim school, 2 years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I’d pretend to close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended.

*********

Facts are pesky things, eh?

nice.

yeah, that whole thing about romney being mormon was out of line too. not that i'm even remotely voting for him, he's never really made his faith an issue, the media has. this is a nice healthy conversation. keep it up.

btw, i love that you used "Wikipedia" as a "source". :-)

I am always loathe to use Wiki but it does thread to some solid links and some bona fide's.

Bio info seems mostly valid most of the time.

I also don't think anything really disqualifies any pol these days. Larry Craig might get re-elected?

The fact that Bush could get two terms - I believe anything is possible. I thought him running for president was too crazy for words. I skipped Gore and voted for Nader. (I am an idiot at times)

capt,

Way to glide over inconvenient facts like they aren't even there. Biden paraphrased and properly attributed the Kinnock quote dozens of times. Then, on the one single instance where he forgot to preface that portion of his speech with "To paraphrase Neil Kinnock," the Dukakis campaign manager (John Sasso) caught it on tape and distributed it to the press without providing ANY background.

Sasso was fired for smearing Biden, and the truth - that Biden didn't plagiarize ANYTHING - didn't come out until after it was too late for Biden to recover.

As for the law school 'plagiarism' incident, Biden was cleared of any wrongdoing.

Nice how you ignored those statements, huh? Tell me, capt - which campaign are you working for?

I actually am a Dodd supporter, but I get really pissed when I see people smearing Democrats. The Republicans do that enough. Let's not devolve to that level ourselves.

"Biden was cleared of any wrongdoing."

He was failed from the class and had to take it over, that is not "cleared" as you represent.

I can provide the source?

Do you have a source that says he was cleared?

From: http://www.famousplagiarists.com/politics.htm#biden

Biden was given a chance to repeat his legal methods course, and above the “F” his retake grade of 80% was eventually penciled in.

******

Is there a source that says he was cleared of all wrongdoing?

You consider "famousplagiarists.com" a source??? Are you freaking KIDDING me?

Here's a real source, showing that the Delaware Supreme Court's Board of Professional Responsibility:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260

Nice try, cap'n.

Oh, and if you want the source showing that he had correctly attributed the Kinnock speech on other instances:

"Biden had mentioned Kinnock in previous deliveries of that speech, though not in the one distributed to the press."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/01/biden_set_to_en.html

So seriously - watcha got now, homeboy?

Capt; what you failed to include in your copy and paste job from Wiki was this;

1988
Main article: Joe Biden presidential campaign, 1988
In 1987, Joe Biden ran as a Democratic presidential candidate. When the campaign began, he was considered a frontrunner because of his moderate image. However, the campaign ended when he was accused of plagiarizing a speech by Neil Kinnock, then-leader of the British Labour Party. Though Biden had correctly credited the original author in all speeches but one, the one where he failed to make mention of the originator was caught on video. In the video Biden is filmed repeating a stump speech by Kinnock, with only minor modifications. “Why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go a university? Why is it that my wife . . . is the first in her family to ever go to college? Is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright? . . . Is it because they didn't work hard? My ancestors who worked in the coal mines of northeast Pennsylvania and would come after 12 hours and play football for four hours? It's because they didn't have a platform on which to stand.” After Biden withdrew from the race it was learned that he had correctly credited Kinnock on all other occasions. He failed to do so, however, in the Iowa speech that was recorded and distributed to reporters (with a parallel video of Kinnock) by aides to Michael Dukakis, the eventual nominee. Dukakis fired John Sasso, his campaign manager and long-time Chief of Staff, but Biden's campaign could not recover.

So, exactly how honest are you? Apparently, you are not trying to see the truth. I could care less who/when he allegedly plagiarized really. It's a non issue.

"...Joe Biden is now the third best bet for the nomination. I'm hearing a lot of buzz about him from people who pay attention."
- Chris Matthews, MSNBC (12/10/07)
The Biden for President Campaign would like YOU to go to IOWA. This once-in-a-lifetime opportunity would allow you to see a caucus and presidential campaign first-hand in the earliest voting state. We need your help, so please join us as we strive to get Senator Biden elected the next PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Dates: Anytime between December 14, 2007 - January 4th, 2008
Accommodations: Provided by the campaign. (Contact for more details)

Please join us for this INCREDIBLE opportunity. If you would like to find out more information, please e-mail our campaign: Becky McAndrews at Becky@joebiden.com or Josh Kagan at Joshua@joebiden.com with the subject line: IOWA. You may also call the campaign at (302) 574-2008!

Thank you and we hope to see you out in IOWA!
- The Biden for President Team

i love that you used "Wikipedia" as a "source". :-)