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Telling Moments from the GOP Debate: Romney Freezes, Rudy Slashes, McCain Shines

Wednesday night's CNN/YouTube Republican debate contained no Hillary Moment--that is, no time when a leading candidate muffed an answer in a manner that created an opportunity for the others to pile on. (Remember Clinton's triple-reverse answer to that question about issuing driver's licenses to illegal immigrants?) But this latest face-off did produce telling moments.
Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney had the most difficult ones. He froze more than once--which is odd, considering he's had ample opportunity to ready himself for this Republican Party-sponsored debate. In one video query, a fellow named Joseph from Dallas held up a Bible and said, "How you answer this question will tell us everything we need to know about you. Do you believe every word of this book? Specifically, this book that I am holding in my hand, do you believe this book?" The question first went to former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. He seemed unsure of how to start, and former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, who was ordained as a Baptist minister, quipped, "Do I need to help you out, Mayor, on this one?" Giuliani recovered quickly and offered the obvious answer: It's "the greatest book ever written....I read it frequently," some parts are "allegorical," some are "meant to be interpreted in a modern context."
Then came Romney's turn. "I believe," he said, "the Bible is the word of God, absolutely." CNN's Anderson Cooper reminded him of the question: "Does that mean you believe every word?" Romney stuttered: "You know--yes, I believe it's the word of God, the Bible is the word of God." He then repeated that answer twice and said, "I don't disagree with the Bible." In other words, he stumbled through a question about the Holy Book. When Huckabee fielded the question, he handled it, naturally, with natural aplomb: "As the only person here on the stage with a theology degree, there are parts of it I don't fully comprehend and understand, because the Bible is a revelation of an infinite god, and no finite person is ever going to fully understand it. If they do, their god is too small." For any social conservatives who care about a candidate's relation to the Bible, Huckabee had slammed Romney.
Later in the debate, Romney hit another bad spot in an exchange during which Senator John McCain shined. A college student from Seattle named Andrew offered this question: "Senator McCain has come out strongly against using waterboarding as an instrument of interrogation. My question for the rest of you is, considering that Mr. McCain is the only one with any firsthand knowledge on the subject, how can those of you sharing the stage with him disagree with his position?" Romney went first: "I do not believe that as a presidential candidate, it is wise for us to describe precisely what techniques we will use in interrogating people. I oppose torture. I would not be in favor of torture in any way, shape or form." It was a non-answer, and Cooper pressed him: "Is waterboarding torture?" Romney repeated himself: "I don't think it's wise for us to describe specifically which measures we would and would not use."
McCain moved in:
MCCAIN: Well, Governor, I'm astonished that you haven't found out what waterboarding is.
ROMNEY: I know what waterboarding is, Senator.
MCCAIN: Then I am astonished that you would think such a -- such a torture would be inflicted on anyone in our -- who we are held captive and anyone could believe that that's not torture. It's in violation of the Geneva Convention. It's in violation of existing law. And, Governor, let me tell you, if we're going to get the high ground in this world and we're going to be the America that we have cherished and loved for more than 200 years. We're not going to torture people. We're not going to do what Pol Pot did. We're not going to do what's being done to Burmese monks as we speak. I suggest that you talk to retired military officers and active duty military officers like Colin Powell and others, and how in the world anybody could think that that kind of thing could be inflicted by Americans on people who are held in our custody is absolutely beyond me.
People in the auditorium cheered. Romney stuck to his talking points, reiterating that he does not favor torture but will not say "what is and what is not torture." McCain fired back that Romney would then "have to advocate that we withdraw from the Geneva Conventions" because under that agreement waterboarding is considered torture. McCain added, "I would hope that we would understand, my friends, that life is not 24 and Jack Bauer....This is a defining issue and, clearly, we should be able, if we want to be commander in chief of the U.S. Armed Forces, to take a definite and positive position on, and that is, we will never allow torture to take place in the United States of America." More applause. McCain had come across looking committed and principled. Romney had appeared tethered to an index-card response.
Minutes later, Romney was tripped up by a question about a statement he had once made. After retired Brigadier General Keith Kerr, an openly gay man who apparently is working with the Hillary Clinton campaign, posed a question about gays and lesbians in the military, Cooper noted that in 1994 Romney had said he looked forward to the day when homosexuals could serve "openly and honestly in our nation's military." Anderson then asked the former Massachusetts governor, "Do you stand by that?"
Romney should have been well prepared. He wasn't:
ROMNEY: This is not that time. We're in the middle of a war. The people who have...
COOPER: Do you look forward to that time, though, one day?
ROMNEY: I'm going to listen to the people who run the military to see what the circumstances are like....
COOPER: So, just so I'm clear, at this point, do you still look forward to a day when gays can serve openly in the military or no longer?
ROMNEY: I look forward to hearing from the military exactly what they believe is the right way to have the right kind of cohesion and support in our troops and I listen to what they have to say.
People in the audience booed at this point--though it was unclear which Romney position they were booing. While Romney had earlier been able to explain his reversal on abortion (from pro-choice to pro-life), he was unable to say what had caused him to switch regarding gays in the military. In fact, he looked flummoxed by what was an obvious question. It was very un-CEO-like.
Representative Ron Paul had a revealing moment. When asked by a YouTuber if he believes--as does some of his followers--that the Council on Foreign Relations is part of a secret conspiracy to merge the United States with Canada and Mexico, he did not say, "No way, Jose." Instead, he noted that there is "a move on toward a North America Union, just like early on there was a move on for a European Union" and that "they" don't talk about it. He cited Nafta and a "Nafta highway." The problem: the Nafta highway is a myth. So Paul continues on as the black helicopter candidate. Later in the debate, Paul referred to "the people in the north" of Iraq and called them Shia, not Kurds.
Giuliani, who (by his standards) barely mentioned 9/11, had his red-meat moment when he advocated cutting 5 to 10 percent from the budget of every federal agency. Would that meaning cutting back on consumer safety, education, environmental protection programs? Presumably. Giuliani didn't address the consequences of such slashing.
Giuliani didn't pander every chance he got. Asked about gun control, he said he backed the notion that individuals (as opposed to members of militias) have the right to possess guns but the government has the right to impose "reasonable" though limited regulations. Audience members hissed. Yet when GIuliani said he would not sign a bill imposing a federal ban on abortion, there were scattered applause.
Former Senator Fred Thompson put in a competent though hardly inspiring performance. But he serve up a head-scratcher of an answer to a question from Texan Leroy Brooks, who asked if the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism or of Southern heritage. "I know that everybody who hangs the flag up in their room like that is not racist," Thompson responded. "I also know that for a great many Americans it's a symbol of racism....As far as a public place is concerned, I am glad that people have made the decision not to display it as a prominent flag...at a state capitol." So far, so good. Then Thompson added, "As a part of a group of flags or something of that nature, you know, honoring various service people at different times in different parts of the country, I think that's different." So it's not kosher to fly the flag over a state capitol, but it's fine to hoist it among a group of other flags to honor soldiers who fought to divide the Union and protect slavery?
Despite these particular moments, the debate is unlikely to shift voter sentiment. No one soared, no one flopped--though Romney came closest to the latter. The debate opened with sharp bickering between him and Giuliani on the immigration issue. But there was not as much R-on-R violence as there could have been. One surprise: few of the candidates bothered to attack Huckabee, who's surging in Iowa. The intra-party punching already occurring (Romney vs. Giuliani, Thompson vs. Huckabee) will now continue away from the hot lights of the debate stage.
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Posted by David Corn on 11/28/07 at 9:26 PM | E-mail | Print | Digg | de.licio.us | Reddit | Newsvine | Yahoo! MyWeb | StumbleUpon | Netscape | Google |
Comments
Why do people keep saying it's a Myth, but local state Senators say it isn't, that they see it right in their backyards.
Posted by: Brent on 11/28/07 at 9:55 PM Respond
The Republicans have long pandered to the religious right fundamentalists, and now some of them are getting bitten by their pet viper. They're being called upon to endorse bibilical literalism, to repudiate past moderate positions and to mark themselves as extremists to win their primaries. They have to endorse human rights and international law violations which make criminals of our officials, victims of innocents as well as terrorists, a pariah of our nation in the civilized world, and a recruiting sergeant of our military for the Salafists. They've gone to bed with the lunatic fringe and now they have to perform and satisfy their consorts.
Posted by: Al on 11/28/07 at 10:10 PM Respond
The NAFTA Highway in question is no myth. It has been renamed the NASCO Corridor. Same purpose, different name. Their url: http://www.nascocorridor.com
Their byline is: "Tri-National Advocacy for Efficient, Secure and Environmentally Concious Trade & Transportation.
From their mission statement:
"As of late, there have been many media references to a "new, proposed NAFTA Superhighway.”
While NASCO and the cities, counties, states and provinces along our existing Interstate
Highways 35/29/94 (the NASCO Corridor) have referred for years to I-35 and key branches as
'the NAFTA Superhighway,' the reference solely acknowledged and recognized I-35’s major role
in carrying a remarkable portion of international trade with Mexico, the United States and
Canada. In actual fact, there are no plans to build “a new NAFTA Superhighway.” It already
exists today as I-35 and branches."
Please become a more informed person, your journalism skills will benefit greatly.
Posted by: Evelyn B on 11/28/07 at 10:31 PM Respond
Wow, did Mitt stumble at the debate or what? Michael Eisenstadt wrote a great piece tonight about the lessons of Annapolis and puts the debate between Rudy vs. Mitt in that context. Pretty provocative stuff that points to Rudy as the obvious candidate for the GOP: http://michaeleisenstadt.com/2007/11/28/a-lesson-learned/
Posted by: eli on 11/28/07 at 10:35 PM Respond
HDNet Dec 1 DNC debate (Sat 7:30pm ET).
- all eight -
gravel kucinich paul nader
Posted by: gravel kucinich paul nader on 11/29/07 at 2:01 AM Respond
I thought Ron Paul did the best in the debate. I'm going to vote for him.
Posted by: Joe on 11/29/07 at 3:51 AM Respond
I wish they would have asked Mitt Romney a more direct question. "Do you believe every word in this book - The Bible. He answered YES, which probably pleased the traditional Christians and Evangelicals, but anyone raised in the LDS (Mormon) Church knows that they always, always qualify the answer by saying "provided it is translated or interpreted correctly" because Joseph Smith (their founder) had so many problems with the Bible that he was in the process of correcting it when he was killed. Not only, Mitt Romney knows well enough that the Bible is really secondary to the Book of Mormon and the D&C (another LDS doctrinal book). These books do NOT agree with the New Testament. If Mitt Romney truly believes the Bible is the word of God, than he must abandon many of his core LDS beliefs. We highlight all the fundamental differences in our articles on ExposeRomney.com. Romney utilizes a method taught to all Mormon missionaries; it's call giving "Milk before Meat," i.e. give people an answer that they will accept, even if it is not completely true or the full story. We have LDS video on our site of LDS teachers explaining how to answer "difficult" questions without exposing the truth. Looks like Mitt attended the same training. :)
They say; "You are judged by the company you keep."
On the left:
Tree huggers, gays, socialists, the media
On the right:
Gun lovers, bigots, Apocalyptic creationists, and Halliburton.
I choose left. Everytime.
Posted by: cboss on 11/29/07 at 8:53 AM Respond
I don't really understand the fear about better North American trade. Other than the obvious labor issues that will have to be worked out of course. I certainly haven't found myself so infatuated with the politics of the "Soverign United States" in recent history. Recent history has not revealed an America wth a great deal of support for human rights. Maybe getting Canada a little more involved in our economy would improve things politically and internationally. After all their dollar is worth more now.
Posted by: Alice on 11/29/07 at 9:20 AM Respond
What struck me watching the debates last night, was how utterly and completely the GOP lacks vision! The only solutions any one of them could offer to any problem this country faces was to bomb it or to cut taxes. They have no other tools in their collective toolboxes!
Since the modern GOP, addicted as they are to the preachings of St. Ronnie, believes that government is the problem, I guess they can't ever bring themselves to admit that govenrment can, in fact, solve certain problems. There wasn't a single word about alternative technologies or new transportation or housing initiatives. Not one. This is a political party that is frozen in the 1800's. Finally, only Ron Paul dared even suggest that the military is the largest source of waste and fraud in American government. These gutless chickenhawks all mistake militarism for patriotism. Since McCain is permanently shell-shocked from VietNam, we can expect no more from him. He belongs in a PTSD ward at the local VA!
Posted by: The Conservative Deflator on 11/29/07 at 10:11 AM Respond
Yes the Republicans collectively and individually missed getting several opportunities to hit the ball out of the park. Mitt Romney over reacted. The correct response to the Confederate battle flag (not the national Confederate flag) would to have been, "I do not flintch at the sight of the Stars and Bars. I am not afraid of it. Because I know that all it represented was tested in the civil war against all the stars and stripes stands for and that the right won out. Every time I see it I am reminded- that it represents a lesson of us all, that a failed economy and political theory was defeated. One of the founding fathers said, "The price of liberty is eternal vigilence." So when we see that flag, our vigilence can be renewed. Black people were exploitated as slaves. During the industrial revolution people, including children were exploited. Today, Hispanics are being exploited by corporations and at the individual level. The big box stores are the plantations of the new mellenium. That is why we MUST end illegal immigration and not have a national amnesty or a guest worker program. Why the states must begin to act because the southern republican majority in Congress, identifies with the corporations who are the exploiters and, as in the 1860's have made the wrong choice. A choice against freedom and equality. And they must be defeated. All workers must be paid a living wage, corporations must be made to provide afforable health and life insurance and a vialble pension for their old age. Shorter working hours, more days to rest from their labor. That flag reminds us of our heritage as the party of the great emancipator and of equal opportunity and inclusion for all. We cannot have Democrats like FDR telling blacks to go home and turn Lincoln's picture to the wall and take from us our mantle as protectors of the civil rights of all people.
Posted by: Kid from Land of LIncoln on 11/29/07 at 10:23 AM Respond
Oh, Freddy, you lazy son-of-a-gun.
He said, "I am glad that people have made the decision not to display it [the confederate flag] as a prominent flag...at a state capitol."
Didn't happen to notice that South Carolina proudly flies the Stars and Bars at the state capitol WHEN YOU WERE THERE EARLIER THIS MONTH?
Posted by: GetReal on 11/29/07 at 10:54 AM Respond
And, they are all Republicans, so does it really matters what any of them have to say? If Americans are not smart enough to purge Republicans from the White House for a few centuries, then the hell will continue. I believe Americans have had enough of the Re-puke-licans to last for a while. I know I certainly have!
Posted by: Sharon Ash on 11/29/07 at 11:28 AM Respond
What's funny is I once heard Romney discuss in a religious service the differences between the English versions of the Bible. He said he believed the 1611 KJV was the most accurate, and his knowledge of the differences was profound. I'm surprised he didn't discuss the fact that you can't interpret the English Bible to the letter, because there are so many versions of it.
Posted by: Steven Rinehart on 11/29/07 at 11:45 AM Respond
As a liberal, i'll have to disagree with the mainstream here and say i've got nothing against the confederate flag. It's free speech. It just makes a statement. What exactly that statement is differs dramatically depending on where you're from. Still, there's no reason to put down a man for saying a person has a first amendment rights, especially in his or her own home.
Posted by: stef on 11/29/07 at 1:44 PM Respond
As I watched the debate and read what nearly every expert and poll suggests, the reality is that John McCain is the only candidate who can beat Hillary.
It will be up to the voters of New Hampshire and South Carolina to come to the same realization. My prayers are that people will step back and evaluate this situation. I supported Ross Perot but the Paul supporters need to realize that he will not win. Hence, the only person with the knowledge and ability to deal with world leaders is McCain. McCain may be arguing with Paul but actually they both are the best candidates to get us out of the war. McCain knows how to win it and stabilize the situation. Paul knows how to lose it and pull our troops out. The problem is that the Republican party will not elect him. Hence, come to that reality if you truly care about saving the most lives of American troops. All democrats and Republicans candidates are staying in Iraq until it stabilizes. DON'T BE FOOLED! Yes, the Democrats are staying in Iraq also. They have no choice.
So, who do you choose? McCain. This is a critical moment for our country. He can lead us through this disaster better than anyone else.
Posted by: Jeff on 11/29/07 at 7:40 PM Respond
McCain has been a darling of the media and establishment for over 8 years now and still cant outraise Ron Paul.
His dud about "that isolationism allowed Hitler to come to power" didnt go over well with the crowd or Ron Paul, who gave him an unmistakable "you know better" look. Apparently at least half the crowd knew better too- America wasnt isolationist at all (in fact, very few throwing the term around nowadays seem to have any idea at all what "isolationism" even means) prior to WW2 and what allowed Hitler to do what he did for so long was belief in his appeal that he somehow needed to pre-emptively invade European countries for Germany's security.
Im still baffled by this continued mantra of "winning vs. losing" in Iraq. Apparently only a few of us remember what the actual mission objectives were for that invasion and the fact that we have already completed all of them...as of 2 years ago.
Posted by: Julian on 11/30/07 at 9:01 PM Respond
It should not be surprising that so much ignorance about history exists today!
Posted by: wmw on 12/03/07 at 11:52 AM Respond
Romney comes from a State (MA) where Caucasian Yankees owned slave ships flying the American flag unloaded their human cargo in Boston Harbor. Africans owned slaves and sold their own people out of Africa! The Confederate States of America did not start slavery but we did fight for the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which the anti-south yankees like to aknowledge only when the central government comes knocking on their doors! We do not need a hypocrite in the White House. We have had enough of them lately.
Posted by: wmw on 12/03/07 at 12:29 PM Respond
Here are documents from the Canadian government about the "NAFTA highway":
http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType56/Production/pol306.htm
http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/doctype59/production/pol295.htm
http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/doctype59/production/Canamex-Trade-Brochure.pdf
They refer to the projects as "NAFTA Trade Corridors", "NAFTA Superhighway", and "CANAMEX Trade Corridor" in their documents. They mention that the highways will run parallel to I-25 and I-15.
Please take the time to review the documents (especially the PDF). I kind of doubt you'll write up a follow up article about this, but that would of course be proper.
Posted by: jeff on 12/04/07 at 4:14 PM Respond
jeff, you don't think we're going to let the fact that Ron Paul had his facts straight get in the way of a good ol' "Ron Paul is a tinfoil hat wearing, black helicopter dodging loon" smear, do you?
and oh-by-the-way..., he ALSO mis-spoke {gasp..}, and used the wrong ethnic group's name at one point..., VERY serious issue for him in the primaries!
you just KNOW the author of the article has never done anything remotely like that
and wadda' ya' wanna' bet we could find a Ron Paul written article or official statement that refers to the Kurds correctly?
i.e.: he really DOES know which is which
like this one maybe:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul58.html
a very interesting read, actually, where in Oct. 2002, the Good Doctor takes apart the claims Bush's administration and all their supporters in Congress were spouting as justification for invading Iraq.
Posted by: jet on 12/05/07 at 3:17 PM Respond
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