As the author of the press release, I can assure you that nobody is trying to stop Jewish people or anyone else from praying on the National Day of Prayer proclaimed by the President. My entire complaint was that a Christian organization, headed by Christian Shirley Dobson and Dr. Ravi Zacharias, and their official stated removal of the name of Jesus for fear of offending others, is offensive in the extreme. Christians have no business apologizing for who they are and what they believe. Historic Christian orthodox teachings, across denominational lines, teach that access to God comes through Jesus Christ alone. Christians can't chop that out for fear of offending others who reject Jesus and still claim that they are praying in a Christian fashion. Don't try to distort what I was saying. The issue is simple: Christians must not apologize for Jesus. If we believe that out of love, He died on the Cross in agony to take the penalty for our sins, why should be be ashamed of Him and hide His name? We may be hated for it but at least we won't be dishonest.

thank you veryy nice post.

Ingrid,

That fact that you were offended by this activity is ironic, but also highlights the danger of any publicly funded religious activities. Religious beliefs are so subjective and diverse, that no national day of prayer could be arranged in away that would not be counter to and offensive to some religious beliefs. In this case, even though the event is being led by evangelical Christians, evangelical Christians such as yourself are still offended. If you are offended, try to imagine how people of other denominations and religions feel upon learning that they can't be volunteers for the event unless they "believe that the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of The Living God" and that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only One by which I can obtain salvation and have an ongoing relationship with God." You say that you are welcoming people of all faiths to pray, but evidently only if they do so under your conditions. For you to then be offended by the organizers one attempt to be more inclusive is mind blowing.

This post hits home--nowadays the "faithful" need to take a lesson from the "pigs" and "vermin."

"There is no war on drugs going on in America today, and Barry McCaffrey needs to resign right now. He needs to stop pushing policies that send our tax dollars to Columbia supporting these right wing dictator-types!" Quoting Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), 08/14/00, from the November Coalition org.

You see...:

Barry Seal was a CIA contract pilot turned drug smuggler turned DEA informant...

After Seal was murdered in Baton Rouge, the lawyer for the Colombian Hit Men charged with his murder "subpoenaed the CIA about what he suspected was its complicity in Seal's assassination in court, and with great difficulty and the assistance of the judge, was able to get the suitcase Seal was carrying on the night of his murder. Though it had been ransacked, he found a piece of paper in the wallet with the private phone number of George H. W. Bush," Wikipedia--Barry Seal.

"...the profits from which were used to fund the war down in Nicaragua, the contras vs the Sandinitas. I know it happened, I investigated it, I worked on it for a couple of years. Gary Webb of the San Jose Mercury unveiled what had taken place, spent a year investigating it. Oh, they tried to quiet him, to put a muzzle on him but he was correct. I went all the way to Nicaragua myself and met with someone in prison who had worked with the Mitaline cartel who had been involved at the time drugs were being dumped into our community...," Rep. Waters.

Now boys and girls don't let these folks show you up here...!!!

Why can't you get along together...???

This is getting quite interesting watching holy people bicker. Even more interesting, the real holy people are excluding even the "wrong" holy people. ahh, I vote we drop the national prayer day. While were are at that it may be time to reprint our money and everything else holy. Then, at least we do not have to be real fake good people. At that time, we can be real good people.

The simple truth that this incident and article present all too clearly is that organized religion has, long ago, outlived any charade of societal beneficence it may have once possessed (religion's usefulness is a dubious concept at best, unless one considers its political servitude).

I often wonder why the term "religionism" is not included when discussing the destructive "-isms" that exist in society. Organized religion destroys any true spirituality as it masquerades as an inclusionary concept, yet, ironically, cannot exist without an exclusionary, us-and-them mentality.

Ingrid, the problem isn't that we don't get what you're saying. It's quite clear that everyone else has to bend to the inflexible will of evangelical Christians. What if Muslims complained the Mohammed wasn't invoked, wouldn't you be offended by that? Or that Hindus insist on invoking their gods? Yet you can't see their point of view? It's ridiculous for the government to have a national day of prayer anyway, but if it does, it has to be non-sectarian, which means no mentions of Jesus to the exclusion of other religious figures. Start your own exclusive event if you want, but if you want other religions to pray with you, keep it generic.

This is why I don't trust religion, on top of all the nonsensical beliefs they add exclusion, and grab for any power or prominence they can find. There is no way that this event is meant to exclude Catholics and Jews from serving in or conducting the ceremony This is the pushing of a personal belief system in a most despicable way, this tiny minority are ceasing control and forcing their stamp of approval on everything. If they can't keep themselves from domineering over an interfaith ceremony what would these fascists do with real power? There is a quote that I keep thinking of during the Bush years and it goes something like 'When fascism comes to America it will come draped in the flag and carrying a cross'.

Why should people such as Jesus. Mary the Pope and people in other religions come between me and my belief in God..

Jesus came by the other night to smoke and talk about the poor children in texas stolen from the church by the pigs. He said that there is no such thing as a virgin birth and that the whole religion thing is not of his making. He wonders who makes atomic weapons and why we are in Iraq. When will the real gods of our fathers arrive and why are women not part of the church. I killed him and buried him in the back yard under the dog house. That should end this silly part of history and save millions from the gas chambers the christians used in germany.

These so called Evangelical leaders are not Christian--they are right wing political operatives that are turning their good but naive flock into suicide voters for the so-called Republican party. They have had years to subtly brain-wash them into thinking that a political demagogue is a religious leader. Just Google--'the 14 points of Fascism, the right wing manipulation of religion' and read 'The 12 Year Reich' by Richard Grunberger. Therein is a chapter on religion and how the Nazi's duped the German people and religious leaders.

oh the evangels those are the folks that brought us george jr.

these are the very type of people jesus had the most trouble with.

and they dont have a clue they would kill jesus again if he reappeared on this earth.

most are imperialists and war mongers.

do they actually read what jesus said?

they are against gays but pay no attention to the part of the bible that states people who work on sunday shall be put to death.

pick and choose religious beliefs.

no I am not gay nor have I ever been gay I just have a wide stance. sorry my idea of humor.

Ingrid wrote: "If we believe that out of love, He died on the Cross in agony to take the penalty for our sins..."

This is why this religion, in my humble opinion, is so counter to the human experience. Why the f--k should anyone, even the supposed son of god, take the penalty of your 'sins'? Ever heard of personal accountability? Responsibility? What a dysfunctional perspective. "Big Daddy forgives me for whatever I do, as long as I ask my Big Brother Jesus to take my side on it. So what do I want to do today? Beat up some homos? Divert funds from tax prayers? The sky's the limit with Big Bro J. keeping my soul clean...."
Nuts, nuts, nuts...

I believe Truman instituted this day during the Commy paranoia period, playing up Christianity and religion as a way of separating our society from the godless Russians. That quest to make ourselves over as polar opposites of the Communists has set us on a track that, fifty odd years later, some would say this country is goose stepping along on.

Amazing. Clearly the religious Christian fundamenatlists here are so disconnected from reality that they don't get the 'fuss.'

When people puke on their shirt time and time again in public, it is time to show them the door. This is not a Christian nation. And it never will be. The real Jesus might weep, and especially on the day the Roman Emperor took up Christianity 5 centuries ago.

Why are we even talking about this? Don't you realise what the Jews are doing to the Palistinians in Gaza? It is genocide, like the Nazi death camps. All in Europe are talking about the new Nazi Jews and how they learned from the old Nazis. Say no to racism.

What a suprise, that the first poster missed a very important bit of information, and does not seem to understand. It is the NATIONAL Day of Prayer, not the CHRISTIAN Day of Prayer. The poster, like so many like her, seem unable to understand their faith is not the only one in the USA. They think they have the one single truth, and live with blinders on to anything other than that.

If God exists there must be a trillion roads all leading to His light.

But Ingrid, you are trying to distort the issue as one of apologist rather than one of inclusion.

The choice of words for the prayer are Dr Zacharias's, not yours. When you get selected to lead the prayer, you can say whatever you want.

And some ppl seem confused when I tell them Im religiously anti orginized religion religion in my opinion is probably the most destructive besides nuclear weapons to ever come out of mans meger self deluded mind and to think this religious stuff all came from man trying to explain why things happened

Ingrid is being honest. I'll give her that. And while her grasp of the theology of sects other than her own evangelical fundamentalism is highly flawed, the basic point that arises is quite true.

Christians, historically, do not play well with others. And "others" doesn't just mean other religions, it means other sects within Christianity as well. This is the historical hallmark of the exclusivist non-ethnic Levantine megafaiths like Christianity and Islam.

And this is why we separate the secular and the spiritual. Ingrid, go read Gibbon. Read about what the early Christians did once they gained secular power. Read about what they did to the Nestorians and the Manicheans and the Arians.

Seperation of church and state isn't just to protect the state from the church and vice versa, it's to protect you from yourselves. Or, rather, protecting the church from the state DEPENDS upon protecting the state from the church.

Those Jesus Freaks
Well, they're friendly but
The shit they believe
Has got their minds all shut
- Frank Zappa
The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing

Sarcastro, you are likely referring to the post-Constantine "Christian" era. That hardly qualifies as the original true Church. Christians are not called to bring divine judgment. That is God's department. "Let your light so shine..." Now back to the topic at hand.

Ingrid, I agree with you. To exclude others and then be apologetic are two extremes which are a source of tension and possibly worse. As true Christians, we cannot pray to another God or lighten our prayers. Which means simply that we pray amongst one another or in our closets so that our Father who sees in secret rewards us openly. The Dobsons should know that they cannot sit on the fence. Courting the Republican party for undue influence in a corrupt world is hardly ideal. While the idea of a National Day of Prayer is all feel-good, it hardly should be some national fanfare but maybe a general address from the president to the population to be silent and pray for the well-being of our nation and people. Simple, brief, to the point, and absolutely repugnant to any true believer in whatever they believe; but politically correct and very modern/apologist.

I prefer not to be PC nor would I refuse others the right to pray privately. If Christians are asked to lead a prayer, the ones requesting should realize that no Christian can be light about their faith or exclude the name of Jesus from our soulful cries. The marriage of Republicans and conservative Christians/evangelicals is the one of the potentially worst things to happen to true Christians in many years.

"......access to God comes through Jesus Christ alone....."

This kind of arrogance is at the basis of thousands of years of suffering and violence. It's time for something new - create a healthy "me" in yourself that feels worthy of a personal relationship with God, without any middle men or women. And then serve love..... not fear.