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No Child Unrecruited

High School cadets in Mariette, Georgia

News: Should the military be given the names of every high school student in America?

By David Goodman

November/December 2002 Issue


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Sharon Shea-Keneally, principal of Mount Anthony Union High School in Bennington, Vermont, was shocked when she received a letter in May from military recruiters demanding a list of all her students, including names, addresses, and phone numbers. The school invites recruiters to participate in career days and job fairs, but like most school districts, it keeps student information strictly confidential. "We don't give out a list of names of our kids to anybody," says Shea-Keneally, "not to colleges, churches, employers -- nobody."

But when Shea-Keneally insisted on an explanation, she was in for an even bigger surprise: The recruiters cited the No Child Left Behind Act, President Bush's sweeping new education law passed earlier this year. There, buried deep within the law's 670 pages, is a provision requiring public secondary schools to provide military recruiters not only with access to facilities, but also with contact information for every student -- or face a cutoff of all federal aid.

"I was very surprised the requirement was attached to an education law," says Shea-Keneally. "I did not see the link."

The military complained this year that up to 15 percent of the nation's high schools are "problem schools" for recruiters. In 1999, the Pentagon says, recruiters were denied access to schools on 19,228 occasions. Rep. David Vitter, a Republican from Louisiana who sponsored the new recruitment requirement, says such schools "demonstrated an anti-military attitude that I thought was offensive."

To many educators, however, requiring the release of personal information intrudes on the rights of students. "We feel it is a clear departure from the letter and the spirit of the current student privacy laws," says Bruce Hunter, chief lobbyist for the American Association of School Administrators. Until now, schools could share student information only with other educational institutions. "Now other people will want our lists," says Hunter. "It's a slippery slope. I don't want student directories sent to Verizon either, just because they claim that all kids need a cell phone to be safe."

The new law does give students the right to withhold their records. But school officials are given wide leeway in how to implement the law, and some are simply handing over student directories to recruiters without informing anyone -- leaving students without any say in the matter.

"I think the privacy implications of this law are profound," says Jill Wynns, president of the San Francisco Board of Education. "For the federal government to ignore or discount the concerns of the privacy rights of millions of high school students is not a good thing, and it's something we should be concerned about."

Educators point out that the armed services have exceeded their recruitment goals for the past two years in a row, even without access to every school. The new law, they say, undercuts the authority of some local school districts, including San Francisco and Portland, Oregon, that have barred recruiters from schools on the grounds that the military discriminates against gays and lesbians. Officials in both cities now say they will grant recruiters access to their schools and to student information -- but they also plan to inform students of their right to withhold their records.

Some students are already choosing that option. According to Principal Shea-Keneally, 200 students at her school -- one-sixth of the student body -- have asked that their records be withheld.

Recruiters are up-front about their plans to use school lists to aggressively pursue students through mailings, phone calls, and personal visits -- even if parents object. "The only thing that will get us to stop contacting the family is if they call their congressman," says Major Johannes Paraan, head U.S. Army recruiter for Vermont and northeastern New York. "Or maybe if the kid died, we'll take them off our list."

Image: Aaron Lee Fineman



 

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I think it is great for a child to serve this great nation and to be a defender of freedom and the american way of lifr. Lets face it if it were not for the soldier Thomas Jefferson would have been tried for treason in a british court room and the Declaration of Independence would have been the evidence!
Posted by:jpOctober 13, 2007 12:04:27 AMRespond ^
indeed
Posted by:IOctober 13, 2007 12:11:38 AMRespond ^
That is absurd. I'm a high school Student and I so it go agaist my rights as an American to have the militaray demand my contact information, and from the school no less. That bit of this law has nothing to do with the educational system and shouldn't even be in there.
Posted by:CMOctober 17, 2007 7:24:56 AMRespond ^
I can't believe they are allowed in the schools to recruit our kids! How dare they prey on these young kids that may be having a hard time, as teenagers do. They talk about traveling, money and free training to make it sound like such a good life. Yeah, well I lived military life for seven years and I can tell you it SUCKS!! They treat you like crap, housing sucks and you make enough money to qualify for food stamps, doesn't that sound lovely? They don't tell you any of that.
Posted by:ChrisOctober 17, 2007 8:56:55 AMRespond ^
Unbelievable!! The lengths to which our government will go. Shame on them for targeting vulnerable teens.
Posted by:TammyOctober 17, 2007 5:39:36 PMRespond ^
I been in the Army for seven years. I got a BA from it, house, really good training. I have seen the world. And for people to say things like the post below is well..just uneducated and unamerican. For someone like me the military was good. College was not in my future. It is now. I have not heard of ANY one in the Army on food stamps. I would like to say thanks to the post who is a true patriot and a great american. I was 17 when I joined and still have not a single regret. To the lady who thinks recruiters prey on "our" kids....Our kids and other young men and women give you the right to type such a statment. Your rights as an american have not been violated because someone asked you to defend your country. Grow up america our country needs us.
Posted by:A soldierOctober 24, 2007 8:35:55 AMRespond ^
Like I said I lived military life for seven years and qualified for food stamps and WIC. We were a family of four making $800 a month, so I think I know what I'm talking about. My daughter is a senior in high school this year, not only are they at the schools but we are constantly being called and sent mailings.
Posted by:ChrisOctober 24, 2007 4:30:48 PMRespond ^
What does the military need these records for? There seems to be a hidden agenda here. Also,it is not unamerican do disagree with a law that authority forces upon one,that one may believe to be violating a personal right. Our framers are the perfect example of this. It fact, I would call that very american. Most high school students can think for them selves, much to certain individuals oppositon, and can choose of their own free will, whether or not they think the nilitary is a suitable career option. They don't need to e dogged into choosing it. I am one myself, and am not carried away with patriotism and respect for those of "intelligence" who are in power at the moment.
Posted by:AlyssaOctober 25, 2007 7:58:31 AMRespond ^
Maybe people would take you seriously if you could spell. FREEDOM!!!!!!!!
Posted by:mupsyOctober 25, 2007 11:03:35 AMRespond ^
PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND THE MILITARY ARE IN A COURTSHIP TOGETHER. THIS IS A VIOLATION OF THE FEDERAL PRIVACY ACT AND AN UNPRECEDENTED PHENOMENA IN OUR HISTORY. RECRUITERS PREY UPON TEENS WHO TEND TO BE IMPRESSIONABLE, VULNERABLE, UNABLE TO CRITICALLY EXAMINE, AND TO ACT IN HASTE. RECRUITER PRACTICES ARE RIFE WITH LIES, UNTRUTHS, COERCION, AND OMISSIONS ABOUT MILITARY LIFE AND WAR. THIS IS AN UNCHECKED INFLUENCE IN OUR SCHOOLS AND S NOTHING OTHER THAN EXPLOITATION OF OUR YOUTH FOR CANNON FODDER.
Posted by:ANN PITTSOctober 27, 2007 5:06:20 PMRespond ^
66 % OF ALL VETS WHO ARE PARTICIPANTS IN THE GI BILL GET NO MONEY FOR COLLEGE. THE PENTAGON ACTUALLY PROFITS FROM THIS PROGRAM. THE MODERN MILITARY HAS MADE EXTENSIVE CUTS IN MONEY FOR SCHOOL AND JOB TRAINING AND HEALTH CARE. THIS IS WAR TIME. PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE HAD A GOOD EXPERIENCE IN THE MILITARY IN THE PAST PROBABLY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW. TALK TO SEVERAL VETERANS WHO HAVE SERVED IN IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN!
Posted by:ANN PITTSOctober 27, 2007 5:12:28 PMRespond ^
If you haven't seen the sci-fi thriller, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", don't fret. It's coming to a high school near you....
Posted by:Paul StarbuckOctober 28, 2007 7:45:35 PMRespond ^
i dont feel comfortable about that so really thats just something i dont want to see really if military is anything like what it is here i dont ever wanna see it again because all we do is get pushed around yelled at and forced to do a bunch of stuff i dont have enough time to do my homework anymore because of this school i also havented talked to my parents in what 2 months because i dont have a phone card wow thats great for ya we all have our opinions and this is mine i dont really feel like getting a reply to this not like im gonna read it anyways
Posted by:military school studentNovember 1, 2007 8:11:55 AMRespond ^
FIRST OF ALL IVE BEEN IN THE MILITARY FOR TEN YEARS NOW,I HAVE MY BA THAT I EARNED WHILE IN THE MILITARY,IVE BEEN TO IRAQ ONCE ,BOUGHT MY FIRST HOME IN CALIFORNIA AT THE AGE OF 26,AND MAKE 4800 DOLLARS A MONTH AFTER TAXES.SO AS FAR AS FOOD STAMPS I DOUGHT THAT.THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MYSELF AND THOSE HOW SAY THEY DIDNT GET AN EDUCATION , IS I REALLY WANTED ONE.
Posted by:military recruiterNovember 8, 2007 4:01:51 PMRespond ^
THE DAY ANY CONTRY FEELS THAT WE DONT HAVE THE STRONGEST MILITARY ANYMORE, IS THE THAT COUNTRY WILL ATTEMPT TO INVADE US.WE NEED A STRONG MILITARY AMERICA!!!
Posted by:MARINENovember 8, 2007 4:07:21 PMRespond ^
You have a teenager that would like to pursue a career that requires a college degree or some type of job experience. You would love for your child to pursue his/her dreams, but it will probably not come true because there was no money put aside for your child's education and let me add that most teens will not get a scholarship. Student loans are possible but in my opinion, that option would not be the best solution to help your teen get through college and afterwards, they end up paying on a student loan for years. It is not the best option when you consider the fact that the military provides 100% TA (100% tuition assistance) and the MGIB (Montgomery GI Bill)for serving your country!! In addition to that, depending on what job you choose, (you can choose your job in the Army) your child can get an enlistment bonus in the thousands. What the military advertises and what we tell our young men and women is simply the truth! What I have noticed from all the negative comments is that these people don't have a clue about what the military offers. I am not talking about if you were in the military back in 1967, 1991, etc. I am talking about current information. Before you talk negatively about your country's military, go to websites like GoArmy.com and educate yourself.
Posted by:U.S. Army SoldierNovember 9, 2007 5:46:48 PMRespond ^
The miliary will get the information they need soon enough when the boys turn eighteen.
Posted by:lishNovember 12, 2007 3:00:28 PMRespond ^
The problem with websites such as GoArmy.com is that they are created for the purpose of promoting the army, hence are not the best way to educate yourself. While it is easy to turn this issue into an argument of how the military treats soldiers and the strength of the American army, such subjects are off topic. The problem at hand is that the military recieves access to student records with information such as phone numbers, adresses, social security numbers, and even GPA, without the student ever being notified. Such policy is an obvious invasion of privacy, not to mention the recruiting practices that follow. Recruiters target schools in poor districts, often making little attempt in affluent areas, essentially, they aim for people who they consider expendable. It sounds harsh and it is, with covert tactics such as talking to popular students in front of admiring followers and even challenging young men by implying that they are not tough enough for basic training, military recruitment is anything but fair, rather it is forceful and discriminatory. While one may argue that a country requires a strong military, the tactics used to achieve one need some work.
Posted by:michelleNovember 13, 2007 11:02:49 AMRespond ^
it is astounding that those who have written a reply to this post have such horrible spelling when they care so much about education that they dont look at the real issues...i will not lie and say my spelling or my grammer is all that great however then again i am not an educator in so much as far as book knowledge is concerned however I do love what i do and that is being a marine. In any other country in the world the voluntary premise of being in the military is not present. In fact there are less then 10% of all countries in the world that have voluntary militaries. Yes Recruiters do get lists of names, addresses and phone numbers of most students however they are not complete as in being all the students. To me that really isn't an issue at all anyway I guess to me the biggest issue here is that there are many UN-EDUCATED Oppinions posted on this web page. I mean just read them. One says the pay is 800 dollars for a family of 4...i dont know when you were in the military but a family of four hasn't had a salery of 800 dollars since oh, i dont even know...ill just say it has been a very long time...what is the guy 80 years old?...not to mention that every family gets paid for housing and this may sound weird but also a food allowance...huh how does that work - crazy isn't it...my use of illipses my be way out of wack but then again i repeat i'm not one for great grammer. So to continue with my rant and list of crazy responses there is the lady who basically says she doesn't have any confidence that his son/daughter has enough responsibility to be able to make their own decision unless of course its to go to college what parent cares about that...i mean who cares if my kid wastes a year, 2, 3, or maybe even 4 years of their life and money to go to college to find out oh crazy i dont want to do this job...guess you better go for round two...lets go back to college for another 4 yrs...and i say she doesn't have confidence because i quote, "targeting vulnerable teens" what makes the teens vulnerable?...LACK OF PROPPER TRAINING...and you have the guy who thinks that the student can make a decision whether to join or not, let me ask you this how can you expect these students to make an educated decision about the military if they know nothing about it except for the crazy ramblings on this blog...how about sitting down with a recruiter...but then again what teacher gives their students the militaries recruiting office phone numbers...maybe if the teachers gave the recruiters number to the students they wouldn't have to give the recruiters the students numbers. And as for "Dogging" someone into the military that simply isn't true thats a stereotype..."all recruiters are liars"...well the opportunities that recruiters give to students and then on to future military members is something that no one else can offer. I dont care what scholarship you give 100% tuition + getting paid to go to college and then food and housing etc. cannot be offered anywhere else in the world...cept maybe bill gates' kids...did he have any kids?...lets move on. Alyssa one question...how do you think the military would get its recruits if it didn't prospect off a school list? Do you honestly think that enough people would walk through the military recruiting offices because of curiosity?...come on get real...I'm willing to bet theres not one kid inside a school who could tell you where the local recruiting station is if they hadn't been contacted or searched for it themselves...how come the schools dont educate their kids on all the opportunities the military have to offer...we tell them what schools offer and even help them get into them...wierd isn't it...so much knowledge so little understanding of it...i wonder where this MISS ANN PITTS gets her information from...how does she know if all recruiters are liars...maybe she was a recruiter herself and decided to lie to people...not how most military members work...OOh ooh i like her next post...she throws a stat at us..heres one 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot...oh yeah and if 60% is true maybe those that have the MGIB should actually take the time to fill out the paperwork to start getting it...then maybe it would be higher then again i dont really think i want to use it right now and maybe i will never use it then again its my friggen choice now isn't it...quote another stat...heres one to think about...more people in america die a day from natural causes than from smoking...weird how that stat thing works isn't it...paul's got the idea though this whole discussion is pretty much a joke anyway...heres a question for lish...where is the military getting the info for people again when they turn 18?...if they aren't on a school list chances are they aren't getting their numbers to recruiters...to the military school student...the real military isn't the same as a military school- military schools are more like military boot camp every day of your school life...sux dont it...use it for good become an officer or something get policies changed by being a military leader...works for me i guess...i like the military recruiter guy hes smart...prolly a marine...The army guys on the right track join the military for the benefits but dont join the military because of the benefits join because you simply want to...and last but not least shes got a lot of probs but well discuss them...your right about army.com being a promoter of the army and your right that its not the best to get all the education you need to make an educated decision but if army dude dont mind and im sure he doesn't the site is a way to educate yourself on the programs and opportunites the army has to offer...another good website...i might be a little biased on it but i think is a Marines.com...its a great way to educate yourself on the marine corps however the best way for you to get a good understanding of what the marine corps has to offer and how it all works is to talk to your local marine corps representative...the next thing is to say i think maam that you are an idiot...the SSN's and GPA's are not given out to recruiters without the students concent...in fact you cannot get them with out the students concent...the name, phone number, and address yes...GPA and SSN, NO!...next to fix anyone's concern about preying on a 17 year old student dont forget this cool little piece of paper that has to be signed before any student or 17 year old if they aren't a student needs before they can join the military...yes that is right person in the second row three seats to the left...THEY NEED A PARENTAL CONSENT FORM IN ORDER TO SIGN ANYTHING...DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER...CALL YOUR LOCAL RECRUITER...ITS IN THE PHONE BOOK GO LOOK FOR IT THE TEACHER'S AREN'T GIVING IT TO YOU...
Posted by:Someone Who CaresNovember 13, 2007 5:58:11 PMRespond ^
You know its funny the way some Americans think.There are people out there who are protesting recruiters out of they're local schools.When the military is for staying drug free,becoming responsible,staying fit,getting a higher education.Yet they want them out.But how often do you see a protest group protesting gang recruitment out of our schools,or the drug dealers.how about the local prostitution going on out side our school gates.Not very often.Think people the Military is not the problem here.
Posted by:Former RecruiterNovember 16, 2007 5:16:58 AMRespond ^
They already got one of my grandsons and I will do whatever I can to prevent them from getting another one of mine or anybody else's for that matter! These guys paint a rosey picture of what "your country will do for you" and lie about what it is they want the young men and women to do for their country. The military war machine sees our children as expendable necessities. Let us send the gung-ho Senators, Congressmen and other politicians who support this war and this farcical administration instead of our children. How about that? Seems to make more sense to me than pulling our children out of the village to do their dirty work for them and die in their stead. I say we leave ALL of the children "behind" when it comes to war.
Posted by:Donna FararNovember 17, 2007 7:54:39 AMRespond ^
My third grader just brought home an Army totebag. Ridiculous! I would really like to not have my seven year old subjected to recruitment, but I cannot opt out (unless I could afford private school). If my children decide to enter the military, sobeit, but can't the military wait awhile? (By the way, know that I am a Navy veteran)
Posted by:BBNovember 19, 2007 12:33:27 PMRespond ^
I believe there are many benifits of military recruitement, so it should not be banned.
Posted by:Ben DoverNovember 20, 2007 7:46:31 AMRespond ^
I believe there are many benifits of military recruitement, so it should not be banned.
Posted by:Ben DoverNovember 20, 2007 7:46:36 AMRespond ^
I have no problem limiting access to schools. My business can't go in and comb for recruits, but..as U.S. citizens I find it hard to believe that the U.S. military doesn't already have access to basic info.
Posted by:chrisNovember 21, 2007 7:06:39 AMRespond ^
If a child really wants to join the military he/she will do this on their own agenda, not that of military officials. My older brother was called by every single section of the Armed Forces for about a week straight until we finally just told them to shut up. Their almost worse than telemarketers. Although of of them are nice about it, and act as though your a person not just an object that'll carry a gun.
Posted by:ChildNovember 26, 2007 6:40:45 AMRespond ^
Who cares if the Army wants kids Info. The kid has a say if he wants to join or not so who the f cares! Its like some of u ppl have no life and all u want to do is find the flaws in things and just pick at them, I love it when the Army recruiter comes to my school.
Posted by:jDecember 2, 2007 11:21:53 PMRespond ^
um because of soldiers he would have been tried, because of soldiers 2 million people died in korea, 5 million people in vietnam, and already a million in iraq. you may say its patriotic or your duty to become a soldier for your country. thats bull crap. its patriotic to question authority, and humanitarian to not join the military(obviosly) besides jefferson's dream died, this is britian(not litteraly)
Posted by:chrisDecember 6, 2007 2:14:13 PMRespond ^
WOULD YOU PREFER A DRAFT?
Posted by:JDecember 7, 2007 10:47:48 AMRespond ^
Of course recruiters are going to recruit from schools, that is where the next generation of our country's defense lies. Why is that a bad thing? The public school systems are funded by the government so Recruiters have a right to student's information. If you dont like it, send your children to a private school. No one is forcing anyone to join, are you kidding? Most countries REQUIRE men serve for 2 years! The U.S. has a voluntary force, something the military prides itself on!
Posted by:SaraDecember 12, 2007 6:26:49 PMRespond ^
i resent the military recruiters, they should stay out of our schools. fortunately for me, i have mental problems which wouldn't allow me to serve anyways, but i worry about my younger brother. why are they allowed to be here in the first place?? i honestly don't understand it. when i see them strolling around my school it makes me want to scream. i see them constantly, handing out flyers, pencils, folders, buisness cards... the works. i even have an army t- shirt from before my boyfriend went to basic training. (yes, he is in the army) and for the record... i know where the recruiting office is, thank you very much "Someone Who Cares".
Posted by:concerned studentDecember 12, 2007 10:59:18 PMRespond ^
please don't let these arguments end. pressure from the government for an increasing presence in our schools will only increase as the war fails. schools in low income, inner city systems will be hit hardest. don't send poor kids to fight in the name of wealthy adults. fight back. jon cammmo.org now.
Posted by:AndersonDecember 15, 2007 8:53:25 AMRespond ^
I teach high school and can tell you first hand the lengths these unscrupulous recruiters go to in order to meet their quotas. Bonuses and promotions vs. full disclosure of facts is a losing battle every time. PARTICULARLY disheartening is their specific targeting of special education students that have little or no reasoning abilities......and we wonder why attrocities are committed in war.
Posted by:teacher101December 20, 2007 12:36:35 PMRespond ^
aLSO, RECRUITERS ARE IN OUR HIGH SCHOOL AT LEAST TWICE A WEEK WITH THEIR INFORMATIONAL BOOTHS/ADVENTER VIDEOS/FREE HANDOUTS BOMBARDING THESE KIDS RELENTLESSLY ABOUT THE UNBELIEVABLE BENEFITS OF THE MILITARY. I AM ALL IN FAVOR OF AN OCCASSIONAL VISIT AND BELIEVE THE MILITARY IS GREAT FOR SOME KIDS. HOWEVER, RELENTLESS PRESSURE CAN AND DOES LEAD TO ENLISTMENTS THAT ARE LATER REGRETTED. SHAME ON OUR PRESIDENT FOR HIS "NO CHILD UNRECRUITED LAW" AND EVERY OTHER CRIME AGAINST THIS COUNTRY. JANUARY 2009 CAN'T GET HERE SOON ENOUGH.
Posted by:tEACHER101December 20, 2007 12:40:38 PMRespond ^
THIS IS TO TEACHER 101,YOUR COMMENT ON RCTRS TARGETING SPECIAL ED STUDENT IS WRONG.HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A TEST CALLED THE ASVAB. ITS A TEST THAT ALL APPLICANTS HAVE TO PASS ,BEFORE THE CAN JOING ANY BRANCH OF SERVICE.BEFORE YOU TAKE THAT TEST YOULL GET SCREENED AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS ARE YOU A SPECIAL ED STUDENT. DO YOUR REASERCH BEFORE YOU POST YOUR IGNORANT COMMENTS..........
Posted by:Marine RctrDecember 31, 2007 5:39:27 PMRespond ^
Imagine if our country did not have a military. I think that the military has the right, expecially with the dwindling numbers. They aren't forcing anyone into this. Just think if the draft was re-instated??? P.S. Many other countries require high school grads to join a military service for a year or two. AND IT ISN'T PAID.
Posted by:MandyJanuary 11, 2008 11:23:32 AMRespond ^
The perception that folks have concerning military way of life and the opportunities are perceived ones from those that are uninformed. I am a retired Air Force officer who received my education and training through programs as an ENLISTED person. I joined the military as an enlisted airman and took advantage of the military and received a BA x 2/MS and medical training. I was commissioned, and have lifelong retirement (32,000 $/year) at 42 years old. My training and education also prepared me for my civilian career which I make 170000$ per year. When I was active duty, I met and worked w/ the most educated/ motivated/ squared away people you could imagine. The opportunities are endless in the military system, IF the person takes advantage of them. I did not originally enter the service because I was destitute or criminal. I researched the benefits, and used them. The military is a great way of life, and changes the lives positively for millions.
Posted by:PBJanuary 13, 2008 6:19:27 AMRespond ^
First of all Jp That's not true. Soliders had nothing to do with the creation or the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Secondly, the choice should be that of the child and not some recruiter shoveling information or hounding him or her at school. The child should go to the recruiter and make the decision and not the other way around.
Posted by:MarvaJanuary 16, 2008 3:36:47 PMRespond ^
People stood in my way of joining the military, almost everybody who opposed it had their say, even wrote notes to the recruiter. Now I'm stuck at home while they are out on their vacations, shame on them!
Posted by:JonasJanuary 18, 2008 7:14:07 PMRespond ^
I am "the guy" who said the family of 4 was making $800 a month. I am 36 years old, not 80. The year was 1990, thank you very much. You can google it if you would like. I am talking about my experiences and how I thought the military was when my husband was active duty. It's nice that people have positive experiences that they can talk about. I am not saying that the military is bad for everyone. I am just talking about my own situation. If military life was so great we wouldn't need recruiters in the schools and incentives to join.
Posted by:christineJanuary 22, 2008 3:55:14 PMRespond ^
Recruiters don't target special ed students. A new recruit has to go through a physical process to get into the military. Also you need a high school transcript to join the military, even if you have a GED still need a transcript to show you completed the 10th grade.
Posted by:billJanuary 24, 2008 10:41:24 AMRespond ^
a Majority of the US , wants our Troops to come home. So the Military is Leeching off my School for new Enlistees. What Military recruiters Neglect to tell Students that 57% All enlistees NEVER receive theire Educational Benefits Even after paying the NON-Refundable $1200. dollar depositto the military. also Enlistees are to serve the military for a period of 8 years. Military Recruiters lie,cheat,bend the truth,steal,borrow, do whatever to get a Contract Signed,
Posted by:AnthonyJanuary 25, 2008 1:56:52 PMRespond ^
I want to join the army as an active duty. I did not finish high school due to family problems and have not had the time or money to take the ged test. I was wondering if you could help me out with that
Posted by:Matthew FeslerJanuary 29, 2008 4:33:06 PMRespond ^
None of you have ever had freedom. The government just wants you to think you do. It's a very brilliant system that has worked for centuries.
Posted by:A.January 29, 2008 5:49:49 PMRespond ^
Perhaps what is most ironic is the clear evidence that the people repping their great military experience here seem to lack one of the key benefits the military is said to offer: education. Look at the caliber of their posts and my point proves itself.
Posted by:StudentJanuary 30, 2008 12:59:41 PMRespond ^
How is our freedom of speech upheld by our military being in Iraq? If we have such an almighty military how did we get attacked on our turf? And don't try to call me unpatriotic as a defense, it doesn't work, I, like other people, are smarter than that and recognize B.S. especially overly-large-military-think-their-the best-and-everything-they-do-is-right-world-police BS and what the hell is with our ahole president telling other countries they can't have nuclear weapons while we're trying to develop 2 new types of nuclear weapons?
Posted by:BROUFebruary 4, 2008 3:53:55 PMRespond ^
I'm 15 and I was thinking and I think I should join if you want to cantact me my email address is sargentmyles420@yahoo.com or www.myspace.com/sargentmyles I just want to know if I'm making a good decision about this. I have always wanted to but I dont know
Posted by:Gavin HortonFebruary 5, 2008 9:18:55 PMRespond ^
i agree with this person
Posted by:chicoFebruary 5, 2008 9:22:25 PMRespond ^
If they were turned down over 19,000 times, how many times did they request access? To some this might sound like harrassment.
Posted by:margaret martensFebruary 11, 2008 3:02:46 PMRespond ^
niggga east oakland,
Posted by:andyFebruary 19, 2008 1:58:49 PMRespond ^
The Air Force gives 100% tuition assistance for AD members to pursue, Associates, Bachelors or Master's Degrees. As far as the GI Bill goes, the GI Bill is in effect after 2 years Time in Service up until 10 years after you get out of the service. Right now the payoff is: $1,200 investment on your part for $35,412.00 for school.
These benefits are entirely separate from the budget used for Iraq and Afghanistan.
You non-military people need to do your research before you post asinine and uninformed comments.
Posted by:Chuck WalkerMarch 12, 2008 7:05:33 AMRespond ^
The issue nobody is addressing is that from a Constitutional point of view the federal government has no business in our local schools. I would argue that the department of education is questionable. They justify it by saying it is for the "kids," and they use the interstate trade clause to look legal. However, I believe that power to "manage" education lies in the power of the state, and thus more with in the control of the people.

As for the point of requiring information from our students, American has since before the French Indian war required such information of "able bodied men" the fact that we no longer discriminate and require this information for women to would seem a step forward for woman’s equality.
Posted by:TheShadowsareWatchingMarch 17, 2008 8:11:46 PMRespond ^
Marva thank you for your view. That said, you seem to misunderstand JB his point that without soldiers the founding fathers would have been hung, and the declaration of independent would have used in their trial.

Also, more than a few of the men who signed the Declaration of Independence had been in the militia or British military. Further more; a logical person must admit that the vaulted ideas of Jefferson might be mere footnotes in history without the Army of Washington.
Posted by:TheShadowsareWatchingMarch 17, 2008 8:57:07 PMRespond ^
I will start this with a simple Hello to the people out there who care...by the preceding comments it is obvious that people care, the problem is that when they voice an opinion it is based on personal belief as apposed to facts. I will comment on each statement one at a time to make things a little more logical. We will begin with Chris' post on december 6th.

Me: Ok so someone here needs to do some research because although i have not looked up the stats for the korean and vietnam war and for that reason will not dispute them i am however very willing to dispute your statement that a million in iraq have died...The actual number is 4000 total through all 4 branches of the military and that is as of this last monday. lets think about this 4000 in 5 years yes it is tragic however so is the thousands of college students that die in a year from alcohol related incidents. And, that doesn't even necessarily mean that the college student was the one drinking. And i agree that it is patriotic to questoin authority however it is not patriotic to LIE, Or Squew numbers to try and benifit your argument...LOOK UP THE FACTS...
Him: Um because of soldiers he would have been tried, because of soldiers 2 million people died in korea, 5 million people in vietnam, and already a million in iraq. you may say its patriotic or your duty to become a soldier for your country. thats bull crap. its patriotic to question authority, and humanitarian to not join the military(obviosly) besides jefferson's dream died, this is britian(not litteraly)
Posted by:chrisDecember 6, 2007
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Me: Concerned Student...I must agree you have mental problems...WOOP WOOP...by the way if you scream when you see a military representatives strolling through the hall ways you aren't going to help your cause with the whole..."mental problems" either. And im glad you know where the recruiting office is but heres a question for you...Did one of your teachers or guidance office suggest you talk to them or give you the number or did you see it as you drove past or go into it when your BF joined the army?...Keep up the good work Stay in school and keep the shrink posted on any changes in your mental circumstances...PLEASE! I hope you aren't just mad that your disqualified for military service when you spoke with a recruiter.
Her: i resent the military recruiters, they should stay out of our schools. fortunately for me, i have mental problems which wouldn't allow me to serve anyways, but i worry about my younger brother. why are they allowed to be here in the first place?? i honestly don't understand it. when i see them strolling around my school it makes me want to scream. i see them constantly, handing out flyers, pencils, folders, buisness cards... the works. i even have an army t- shirt from before my boyfriend went to basic training. (yes, he is in the army) and for the record... i know where the recruiting office is, thank you very much "Someone Who Cares".
Posted by:concerned studentDecember 12, 2007
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Me: Knowing Recruiters I can guarentee that they don't paint anything that looks like a rose garden hence that old recruiting poster "We Dont Promise A Rose Garden"...Every marine i know will tell you "I will promise you two things. A Hair Cut and a Hard Time." By the way How does a Special Ed student pass an Asvab. If they can they dont belong in a special education program. And back to the full disclosure thing, yI can tell ou right now that people dont join the Marine corps for the benefits i know this prolly wont make sense to you because you think that the military is BS however All marines join the Marine Corps to be Marines and again knowing Recruiters I know they dont want someone to join the Marine Corps for any other reason. I hope by attrocities you aren't suggesting that special educated students are running around Iraq with guns because if you are then you would have to be the Retard at that point.
Teacher: I teach high school and can tell you first hand the lengths these unscrupulous recruiters go to in order to meet their quotas. Bonuses and promotions vs. full disclosure of facts is a losing battle every time. PARTICULARLY disheartening is their specific targeting of special education students that have little or no reasoning abilities......and we wonder why attrocities are committed in war.
Posted by:teacher101December 20, 2007
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Me: I know around where im from the recruiters only go into a particular school once maybe twice a month as it is scheduled they dont "Invade" by the way Teacher...How do you spell adventure...maybe you should go back to school for spelling. And the Benefits aren't Unbelievable they are true...LOOK THEM UP!...and relentless pressure at least in my case generally pushes me away or turns me off to whatever is being told to me...
Uneducated TEACHER!: aLSO, RECRUITERS ARE IN OUR HIGH SCHOOL AT LEAST TWICE A WEEK WITH THEIR INFORMATIONAL BOOTHS/ADVENTER VIDEOS/FREE HANDOUTS BOMBARDING THESE KIDS RELENTLESSLY ABOUT THE UNBELIEVABLE BENEFITS OF THE MILITARY. I AM ALL IN FAVOR OF AN OCCASSIONAL VISIT AND BELIEVE THE MILITARY IS GREAT FOR SOME KIDS. HOWEVER, RELENTLESS PRESSURE CAN AND DOES LEAD TO ENLISTMENTS THAT ARE LATER REGRETTED. SHAME ON OUR PRESIDENT FOR HIS "NO CHILD UNRECRUITED LAW" AND EVERY OTHER CRIME AGAINST THIS COUNTRY. JANUARY 2009 CAN'T GET HERE SOON ENOUGH.
Posted by:tEACHER101
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Sincerely,
Someone Who Cares
Posted by:Someone Who CaresMarch 28, 2008 9:15:55 AMRespond ^
ME: Marva you keep forgeting that these Children you speak of are graduating from Highschool...Can i ask then, If these young people are children Why in the Heck are you sending them off to college often times 100's of mis. away from any kind of real supervision. You would allow your CHILD to do what they want with out supervision?...SHAME ON YOU! At least on that side of thing the military will give them supervision. And often times the CHILD you speak of is in lack of self confidence and wont go to the recruiter. Which i might add self confidence is one of those things the military can help your CHILD discover.
Marv: First of all Jp That's not true. Soliders had nothing to do with the creation or the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Secondly, the choice should be that of the child and not some recruiter shoveling information or hounding him or her at school. The child should go to the recruiter and make the decision and not the other way around.
Posted by:Marva
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ME: My appologies to you maam for the use of "the guy"...i still dont believe you only made 800 dollars a month pvts now starting out make almost 1400 dollars. And thats a single guy and not including housing or food. Btw i have to wonder what rank your husband was because in 1990 the only way that he made 800 dollars a month, and this is just base pay here, is if he were a Private E-1 and it only takes 6 mos to get promoted to E-2 so where is this coming from?...if you'd like to check my math by all means please do here is a web site that will help you see. http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/200 6militarypaytables/militarypaypriorrates/1990.pdf just copy and paste that into your web browser it will help you...And the reason we need recruiters in the schools is because they dont know the benefits and all that the military can offer...as far as incentives they are generally there as a little extra help for things such as paying off past student loans or taking care of some debt that an applicant may have. it kind of reminds me of that movie FIELD OF DREAMS "If you build it he will come"...if you educate them they will come... FOR ALL THOS READING STILL CHECK THIS SITE OUT IT WILL GIVE YOU THE BASE PAY FOR EVERY YEAR FROM 1949 till 2006 and if you want more up to date you can google them too...here it is... http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/200 6militarypaytables/militarypaypriorrates.html Good luck all who do not believe.
Her: I am "the guy" who said the family of 4 was making $800 a month. I am 36 years old, not 80. The year was 1990, thank you very much. You can google it if you would like. I am talking about my experiences and how I thought the military was when my husband was active duty. It's nice that people have positive experiences that they can talk about. I am not saying that the military is bad for everyone. I am just talking about my own situation. If military life was so great we wouldn't need recruiters in the schools and incentives to join.
Posted by:christine
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ME: Are you sure that a majority want them home or is it a majority want them to finish up soon and come home?...by the way recruiters dont neglect to tell the students that 57% never recieve their ed benefits. what the students fail to do is when in the military or even after the military the students fail to apply their ed benefits toward their lives. You see what you should have said is that 57% fail to utilize their GI Bill, Not they never recieve because when you say that you are manipulating the stats to bend them for what you want...oh and i guess thats kinda like your stereo type on recruiters..."Bend the truth" some more Tony! You have up to 10 years after you leave the military to use your GI bill and then at that point yes you do lose it...but what takes a person 10 yrs to finally decide they want to use that money?...and if they dont want they can opt out of the GI bill and save that 1200 dollars instead of investing it to earn a guarenteed 38000. by the way why are you stereo typing military recruiters?...were you a recruiter?...did you lie?...Do better research.
TONY: a Majority of the US , wants our Troops to come home. So the Military is Leeching off my School for new Enlistees. What Military recruiters Neglect to tell Students that 57% All enlistees NEVER receive theire Educational Benefits Even after paying the NON-Refundable $1200. dollar depositto the military. also Enlistees are to serve the military for a period of 8 years. Military Recruiters lie,cheat,bend the truth,steal,borrow, do whatever to get a Contract Signed,
Posted by:Anthony
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ME: And by CHOICE the military members do not go to college because it is out there for them and they can use it if they would like...but like myself many CHOOSE not to use those benefits. btw your post i like much better than the others it is clear concise and to the point...it also could prove a good point if it weren't for the fact that not using their benefits is a CHOICE, not something they are forced into. Cool Beans though STAY THE COURSE!
A Student: Perhaps what is most ironic is the clear evidence that the people repping their great military experience here seem to lack one of the key benefits the military is said to offer: education. Look at the caliber of their posts and my point proves itself.
Posted by:Student
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ME: I think you have a good point the Government should stay out of the schools however in order to get rid of Government from school they need to lower taxes and people need to take the money they save from that and apply it toward private schools for their children. Unfortunately that is unrealistic and we need to take our head out of the clouds and do something productive like educating our children to be able to make more sound decisions that the parents will feel confident in...however that will never happen either because unless the son or daughter is telling their parents that they want to go to college the parents will still say their son or daughter is not making a sound decision...they would rather their son or daughter go off to college and waste their time, money and believe it or not quite possibly their lives again i encourage everyone here who believe too many die in iraq to look up how many deaths their are in colleges every year and while your at it narrow the search down a little bit make it just a search about how many college students die in alcohol related incidents each year...NOW THAT IS SAD!!! THAT SHOULD BE UN-CONSTITUTIONAL
PETER PANS SHADOW: The issue nobody is addressing is that from a Constitutional point of view the federal government has no business in our local schools. I would argue that the department of education is questionable. They justify it by saying it is for the "kids," and they use the interstate trade clause to look legal. However, I believe that power to "manage" education lies in the power of the state, and thus more with in the control of the people.

As for the point of requiring information from our students, American has since before the French Indian war required such information of "able bodied men" the fact that we no longer discriminate and require this information for women to would seem a step forward for woman’s equality.
Posted by:TheShadowsareWatching
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Sincerely,
Someone who cares
Posted by:Someone Who CaresMarch 28, 2008 9:17:27 AMRespond ^
No one in the miliary is paid $800 a month. Lowest Base pay 1300, Housing 700, Food 280 and alot of other benifits which adds up to 30K a year even for the lowest ranking grunt
Posted by:JARMarch 29, 2008 3:30:20 PMRespond ^
I think that recruiting youth in high school is wrong because thier minds are not open to new ideas or better, safer jobs.
Posted by:The Dark AvengerApril 7, 2008 1:50:13 PMRespond ^
I'm a high school student who is going to go into the military after i graduate. but... i dont think that it is right for the president to pass an act that gives the military rights to look at my personal information. maybe i dont know all of the facts but this seems wrong for the military to have access to this or my school can no longer get funds. its not like we are a rich school. were not we live in a small town in pa that is being over looked for alot of stuff. or it seems
Posted by:CrissyApril 15, 2008 10:56:26 AMRespond ^
not all of the tuition is paid for.
my aunt was in the air force for 10 years and then got out and that was 30 years ago and she is still paying for her loans
Posted by:crissyApril 15, 2008 11:00:04 AMRespond ^
I am an Army Recruiter. Here are the facts:

1. It is an ALL Volunteer Army. That means, despite how much we talk to high school students, it is still up to them to join.

2. What would happen if there were no Army or military recruiters? Who is gonna defend our future? Who will defend the freedoms we enjoy?

3. If you think soldiers are poor and mistreated, think again. I am 34. I earn over 70,000 per year. I am eligible to retire in less than 5 years....but since I LOVE THE ARMY, I may stay in longer. I got to live in Europe for 5 1/2 years.

4. Is the Army all roses.....of course not, and if anyone is so naive that they think that it is is probably too stupid to pass our entrance exam.

5. 7 out of 10 people aged 17-24 are not even qualifed to serve in the Army. So most of you uptight people don't have to worry since the majority are too fat, too uneducated, and have too much of a criminal background to join.

Let us do our jobs. There are some people that want to keep your freedoms despite the fact you protest and talk down on them. So go ahead and take out a second mortgage on your house so your overweight pot smoking kid can go to community college for ten years and waste your money.....and guys like me will keep them free.

My last thought is this.....we can agggresivly ASK kids to join, or we can politely DRAFT them against their will. I prefer the freedom to choose. Drafts are not the answer. Hereos that join every day thanks to recruiters showing them a plan for success. Before you bash recruiting and military service take a moment to think, "What did I do today to defend freedom and protect the innocent."

Posted by:Army StrongApril 16, 2008 7:36:56 PMRespond ^
Also, to the lady that is mad cause her third grader came home with an Army toe-bag....are you kidding me? IT WAS OBVIOUSLY A GIFT FROM A SOLDIER. Are you that ignorant that you think someone is trying to enist a 3rd grader? What an ungrateful, opinionated, mean person you must be. Did the toebag make your kid happy? Was it useful? Or did it brainwash him into spending every waking minute of his life waiting for the next ten years to pass so he can join the Army?
Any of you that are talking trash that have never served, I could care less. I have been to Iraq. You non-military parrots just keep chirping about how bad things are.....well, I feel like you are nothing but a bunch of negative idiots that don't have a simple appreciation for freedom and the life we have. Go spend a DAY in a third world county. Watch a monther mourn her child that has just died from starvation because her government had no medical assistance.......go to a naturalization ceremony and ask them why they came here. Wake up America.....this IS the best place to live. We drink bottled water and surf the internet, and then bitch about pettty crap that does not affect us. Imagine waking up tomorrow in China.....and you want to go to church....oh, that's right, Christians are pursecuted in China. Has anyone in herer ever volunteered at an Hungarian Orphanage? I have. That is reality. not some spoiled fat kid playing x-box while his homeworks sits on the table and mom and dad are busy watching t.v.
By they way.....you know what the best part about serving in the Army is???? It's that chill that goes up my spine and the tears that fill my eyes when I hear the national anthem. That is why I serve!
Posted by:ArmyApril 16, 2008 7:55:00 PMRespond ^
Some of you guys are idiots with no knowledge of how the military works. I have been an army recruiter for 3 months an I wish I was back in the regular army, because you kids are dumb as hell-out of the 30 individuals I have given the practice test only about 5 has passed. High School Grads are getting scores as low as 5, but my kid is going to college-like hell he is. Educate yourself talk to a recruiter bring you parents if your scared-parents buring your parents if your scared. I don't want a dumb ass in my Army and it seems like your the dumb ass so keep you comments to yourself-especially if you have never serve. I just revoked you freedom so speach.
Posted by:Army Recruiter NEApril 17, 2008 8:31:57 PMRespond ^
HOOAH!!!
GO ARMY
Posted by:WoodruffApril 23, 2008 11:22:06 AMRespond ^
It's a little naive to say recruiters are preying on kids. I don't think the military should be allowed to demand personal information from the schools, but to demand that they not even be allowed on campus is selfish. A lot of these kids have little opportunity in their home towns, and the military presents an opportunity to get away from old friends and old habits and go to college. Just because you don't personally believe in it doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed there.

Without recruits, there would be a draft. Be grateful that others VOLUNTEER to spend weeks out in the woods, eating MREs, sleeping 4 hours a night, and walking miles every day in blistering heat and thick humidity! If you have a poor attitude, you're not going to enjoy it. You shouldn't serve with the sole purpose to make money and live in great housing. If that's your sole reason for enlisting, stay at home.

Sometimes I wish military service was mandatory so that people could understand the sacrifices others make so that friends and family (and strangers!) can stay at home and live their normal lives.

Anti-militarism is extremism. There are people in this world who will rob or hurt you. How can you possibly have been educated in history and not see the value of our men and women in uniform?

There is a world out there that most Americans are completely ignorant of. These people, their intentions, and the consequences of those intentions are REAL. You can stay home and complain, but thank God someone will do something about it!
Posted by:cptApril 24, 2008 3:47:05 AMRespond ^
while I can understand you desire to not have your son exposed to the military or recruiting as you say. trust me if your 3rd grader have a tote bag it is because a recruiter or any military personnel was there doing a community event. As a military member having served 24 years now I do not intend to get into any pissing contest with anyone on this site yet I will say this to all of you. I am most grateful for my Master's degree that I have obtain since being in the military. I joined while I was a young 17 year old. Like a previous blogger said my parents had to sign for me to join NO ONE 17 years old joins with out a parental consent. NO ONE!!! Yet everyday for 24 years I have placed my life in a position that you can say or even blog the types of things you have been said on this site. So to those of you making rude and sometimes down right stupid remarks I simply say to you "YOU ARE WELCOME"! Thank you to the marine for shedding some light on a lot of issues. I personally am proud of all of those who have elected to serve. Someone made a comment that recruiters prey on the weak and those in low income areas. Please allow me to say this to you. I did not come from a family with a lot of money but I came from a family of Educators. So not going to college was not an option. I did not join the military beacuse I had nothing else going for myself. You see I graduated from High School with 5 full scholarship offers. I am in the military because I made a choice to do this. I have been places that I probably would have ONLY dreamed about going. I can sit with the elite when they talk of trips to Paris, Spain, Italy, Hawaii, Japan, and Germany because I have had the pleasure of going to all of these places and more. To the blogger who said the military will get the information when the person turns 18. You failed to list that ONLY males are required to sign up for the selective service not females. Oh by the way I am a woman! And lets be real because I see it EVERYDAY many you do not do that as you are suppose to. To the grandmother who says the military got one of your grand children please tell that young man/woman "thank you for steping up and serving this great country we call home". You see we don't live in a time of draft so he/she volunteered. Like the young person serving in the marines stated previously to the person who said they were a family of 4 who says they made only $800 for 7 years. A private makes more than $800 and to have made that for 7 years makes me question was this a person NOT trying to move up in rank? I am not one to talk about my pay and don't like people who tend to look up on the web site and tell me how much I make but please allow me to disclose this to kill this myth. I make just over $75K a year. Well over the proverty level. I don't dare say that you did not make $800 a month but the questions is When and are you failing to disclose that you lived in government housing for free. Did this $800 include your food allowance as well or was this just the person's base pay only and even then the questions still lingers as to when were you in. I've been since 1983 and I NEVER made that even before I was married. Which by the way so that EVERYONE reading this will know you are paid more to care for your dependents. Yet the question of the day is should the schools allow the students information to be released? I answer with a loud and thunderous YES! But I will say this as well if you don't want your childs information to be disclosed sign the DAMN form and guess what it will not be released but as I have seen in most of the school the parents DON'T even show up or show any concerns about their children's school work or well being until they find out their child is NOT going to graduate on time! Again to all of you that have SOOOOOO much to say against the military YOU ARE SO WELCOME! I serve with pride so that you can make this types of comments!
Posted by:defender of allApril 27, 2008 3:32:00 PMRespond ^
This Goes for you Mr. Recruiter; How come you're not sending your kid to the military? And you're recruiting all of these other vulnerable students?
As a matter of fact, I'm giving out a speech about this topic on MOnday for my speech presentation. I've done my research and I've already been through that recruiment bs. I felt harrassed by this stupid recruiter that did not understand the meaning of "NO"
It's true this country offers us Freedom and endless opportunities, but these are the opportunities that we've long been fighting for, opportunities that our anscestors have died for.
A strong military is vital to the security of our nation because it allows us to fight for freedom and democracy. Students have the right to know-and-deserve to know all the options available for them after graduation.
Our military can and must continue to fulfill recruitment needs while preserving our family privacy.
There’s no excuse for violating the privacy of our children, brothers and or sisters.
There’s no governmental purpose to collect their grades, much less their races.
There’s also no legitimate reason to ignore the rights of parents to restrict strangers from contacting their children.
We must change this policy or “No Child Left Behind” will really mean “Hey kid, we got your number!”
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any recruiters, because I know there are people out there that really want to join, but please don't harrass those who don't. Thank You. Instead of wasting your time fighting for what's right or wrong about this topic. You guys should be making peace.
Sincerely, Just a college student...
Posted by:College Student.April 27, 2008 9:39:33 PMRespond ^
So I take it all you complainers here would rather the draft be reenstated then let recruiters talk to people that may WANT to join the military. No one FORCES these students to join. No recruiter holds a gun to anybodys head. Once my son is old enough to join the military, if that is his choice what he wants out of life. Then its his choice. Thats what makes america so great, freedom of choice. Who are any of us to try and take that freedom away. If a student is not interested... When asked if they thought about the army, say Im not interested, simple. You may get a follow up call or two down the road, but thats because people change their minds. Draft or let recruiters do their job.... what do you think?
Posted by:BobbyApril 29, 2008 4:05:50 AMRespond ^
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am a proud soldier who joined the Army in 1988. I have been on several tours of duty in hazardous fire areas from the Gulf War to the present Operations in Iraq. I am not now, nor have I ever been a recruiter. I entered the Army as a Private, E-1, in 1988.
I can not speak to the methods of recruiting or some recruiters. Do some recruiters lie, tell half-truths or otherwise breach their integrity as a soldier and person? Yes. However, these are the few bad apples that many professions have the displeasure of dealing with. Those actions are also punishable offenses that can ruin and even end a soldier's career.
I can speak to the pay issue that has been raised by many here. I was 17 and single when I joined the Army. I am now married with 6 children. In January of 1989 I recieved a monthly pay of $699, and I have the pay statements to prove this. I lived in the barracks (a basic 4-man cube with 4 bunks and 4 wall lockers) so I was not auhorized the Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH). Because I lived in the barracks, I was issued a Meal Card and dined in the "Mess Hall" (Army for Cafeteria) for free. Because of this, I was not authorized to recieve the Basic Allowance for Subsistence (BAS or "Food Supplement").
Even as a young Sergeant, E-5, I barely made over $1400 a month in 1993, this included my BAH and BAS (called VHA and Sep Rats at that time, I believe). I had 2 children in my house and paid child support to my ex-wife for 1. Yes, I qualfied for WIC assistance, free lunch programs at my childrens schools and a couple other small programs. I personally have never qualified for food stamps, although I was close. I have had soldiers that did qualify.
I now make $3800 a month in Base Pay, $300 a month in BAS and $1000 a month in BAH. Not glorious money, but I do ok. Keep in mind that this is generally a 60-hour work week (from 6:30 am to 5 pm give or take an hour or so). This also does not include the long months spent in desolate conditions or under fire. Areas and circumstances we do not really desire, but we accomplish our jobs. Yes, we recieve a small additional stipend for this, but is it enough?
No, we could recieve much better pay for the risks, times and problems that soldiers endure.
For any who doubt my pay numbers, use google. Google military pay charts and a large list of many sites will appear. Google the year and military pay chart and you can even find the specific numbers for that year. Here is the link that will show the defense department records for years dating all the back to 1949:
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/200 6militarypaytables/militarypaypriorrates.html

As for higher education, depending on your job and duty station will depend on the amount of education you can recieve during your service. Many times I have not had the oppportunity to do any college. I have also foolishly squandered other chances to better my education. Tuition assistance is widely available and will cover all or almost all tuition and books in most places. For those who don't use their GI Bill, that's their fault. It is available. I have recieved 29 credit hours of college in my 19 years of service. I probably could have a degree by now, but honestly, when it comes to college I am lazy. I don't like it. The career path I am planning does not require college, so why do it? Does a piece of paper make me nicer, or more honest, or better than anyone else? I think character counts as a measure of a person. That is not to say that college is useless. For a great many people it is a wonderful opportunity that can be rewarding and enhancing. Just not for all.
Now, military service is not the right choice for everyone either. Even after some people join, they hate the Army, and that is their right. Remember that the key word in that sentence is choice. Right now, we have a volunteer service and it is a choice and not a draft that has a young person raise their hand for an Oath of Service. For those who do, and those that have, thank you for your service. For those who do not, that's ok. There are many other ways to serve your country in a positive manner also. Civil service, emergency services, educators and the list goes on. Isn't it wonderful to live in a place where these posts can be made without fear of retribution?
Posted by:Sergeant First Class TApril 30, 2008 4:45:03 PMRespond ^
You have to know that I've researched many other sites since I'm doing this topic for a project. Just know that they want to get more than just name, addresses, etc. They're also trying to get e-mail addresses, cell phones numbers and even where you go to hang out.
I think that people should join the Army and recruiting should not be banned. But for the recruiters to use this Any-Way-Possible angle is an invasion of personal space. People didn't even know that this was an attachment to the No Child Left Behind Act!
Join the Army, I've got nothing against men and women protecting their country. But recruiters still shouldn't be able to do this to 15 year old kids, whether they want to join or not!
This does NOT go into whether people should join the Army or "serve this great nation", so people who are making those arguments, just stop it. This is about complete strangers being able to access every single aspect of your life, which is just --put simply-- not right.
Posted by:HarrietMay 1, 2008 6:18:29 AMRespond ^
While it is illegal for a minor to enlist without a signed parental consent form, it still happens.
Posted by:MicheleMay 7, 2008 7:19:01 PMRespond ^
I am a high school student in Pennsylvania, and while no one has ever tried to recruit me (perhaps because I don't live in a poorer area and our system does not force the middle class to risk their lives just for an opportunity at education), I do know of people whom they have gone after. They use techniques to exploit the naivete and downright stupidity of high school students by telling them things like how they'll never be stationed in combat, or how they can be given non-combat technical jobs. I have even heard reports that Army recruiters are offering free iPods to anyone who joins!
Whether or not this is true, it still stands that children should know their right to refuse to give recruiters information. I have never know until recently that I had that right.

I have the utmost respect for anyone wishing to join the armed forces, but they should have a non-glorified, realistic understanding of what they're getting into. Students who hear the false promises of army recruiters and join the armed forces don't understand the danger they're putting themselves in, and that is totally immoral.
Posted by:student against the warMay 8, 2008 1:27:31 PMRespond ^
To the post by Chris on 12 December 2007, You need to shut up. Those people did not die in Korea and Vietnam because of Soldiers, they died because of the Federal Government, namely the Secretary of Defense, who is a civilian! Soldiers, Airmen and Sailors have no choice where they go! This is not Britain, and soldiers have fought, died, left families behind, some are maimed, and all for your right to desecrate them with your ignominious insults! To all who are serving I thank you, and deeply appreciate your sacrifices. On the subject of the recruiting, I believe that the recruiters should be allowed to come to schools, call kids who voluntarily give information, or look kid's numbers up in the phone book. Giving them all the numbers of all the kids in the high school seems a little extreme, though. Just an opinion. God Bless America!
Posted by:Cody McGillMay 9, 2008 1:00:11 PMRespond ^
I agree. I am a military wife and ever since my husband joined the army we have been in debt. They will find any and every reason to take your pay. They screw up every month! We got a 39 dollar paycheck this month due to a mistake where they took him off active duty and in january he got 300 for the month due to having to take an emergency leave, they took 1685.00 from him for 2 weeks of leave! We have 3 kids and I am losing my home, my van will be repoed june 4th, water will be cut off in 1 week, i am borrowing money from my EX HUSBAND just to feed myself and kids and put gas in the car!! Thats bad! AND they just took another 609.00 and said he owed a debt from december, which i have papers saying he didnt, but they say, well, lets take care of one thing at a time, we'll get you some money in the bank on the 19th of may, !!!Yeah! I got a whole $6.09!!! That'll definatly pay the 1500.00 in bills i am behind on! I use to support the army and now i think the army sucks. And evidently they hire anyone to work in their finance department, cause they have NO clue what their doing! Is anyone else having problems with army pay?? email me at rstokes100386@yahoo.com pleae
Posted by:tabbathaMay 19, 2008 7:20:31 AMRespond ^
I agree with you. They recruit poor people who they know isnt helping society or making a difference, or people who are on food stamps, welfare, medicaid etc... they need to tell these young people that yes they will get an education but first you will go fight overseas and chance dying and never get the chance to use your education, AND that they will screw up your pay as much as possible.
Posted by:tabbathaMay 19, 2008 7:25:16 AMRespond ^
also, i dont think a child should be recruited in high school. some of the kids they are recruiting cant even make mature decisions in everyday life, much less go fight for our freedom! They shouldnt be allowed to go into the military until their atleast 21, and some 21 year olds arent even mature enough.
Posted by:tabbathaMay 19, 2008 7:29:15 AMRespond ^
sgt first class t...how many times have they screwed up and took your pay? honestly? I am fixing to go to the news channel for an interview on soldiers pay and their families. The army just hires anyone to do their finance, we are in more debt now than before he went into the army. an i cant seem to get anyone to help us. We had to get help from the army relief fund in january due to only receiving 391. for the month and now the monthly payment for that is 97.77 an they arent even paying him that right now but yet they want us to repay the loan! I use to like the army and ageed with it but now i hate the army. Noone seems to be able to help me, all they can say is "he needs to see finance" well, finance is the ones who got us in this to begin with, and they cant seem to help. They evidently need to take advantage of the college benefits the army offers and go take some courses on accounting and finance. Where are you from, and have you had any of these problems? Please just email me at rstokes100386@yahoo.com. thank you tabbatha
Posted by:tabbathaMay 19, 2008 7:38:54 AMRespond ^
Personally, I think everybody should serve, but that's just my opinion. If these kids think they're too good to serve, or have any other personal excuse to not serve, then all they have to do is say no. They can say no, because every once in a while, some of these kids who talk to the recruiters say yes. It's as simple as that. I'm enlisting in the military, I'm not poor and I'm not stupid. It's all I've ever wanted to do and I'm about to do it, dispite any type of liberal BS you or anybody else throws at me. Now on the other hand, I do agree, they shouldn't be able to find out everything about you, but if more people would enlist, this stuff probably wouldn't be happening. This is probably a response to the fact that the military is behind their recruiting goals.
Posted by:JonMay 23, 2008 11:54:31 PMRespond ^
well im also in the army and i know there are people that are on wic and foodstamps yes that is bad, but if you all were only making $800 maybe you should have thought about that before having kids the army isnt all good, but it isnt all bad either im also married to a soldier we have had to leave our kids for iraq twice - why i do it, so my kids wont have to but im not complaining stop beating up the military and the recruiters if the army isnt your choice of a career that doesnt mean that it isnt for the next person
Posted by:armyangelMay 30, 2008 12:13:42 PMRespond ^
The sad thing is the method of recruitment that is used. Subtle intimidation, lack of complete information, and blatant propaganda is used.

Recruiters dress in full dress uniform as a form of intimidation. You are told you'll get a bonus (which you don't get till AFTER your service), told it will pay for college (even though the Pell Grant will also for a civy), you are told "you'll be defending our freedom" when in fact you will be shipped to Iraq to defend bid oil interests (another thing that isn't told unless you ASK).
Posted by:MemnojokaselJune 4, 2008 9:52:46 AMRespond ^
The records on children are much more disturbing as found on http://www.RobertsCourt.com as the military has very sophisticated ways to recruit children through "Child Services" records.
Posted by:Robert LukehartJune 7, 2008 4:57:01 AMRespond ^
I cant wait for one more year to be deployed into war...I love the idea of them briging in ROTC and such into our schools i think that it should be like the old days to where you automatically get put into the military no matter what unless you have sever medical problems
Posted by:anonymousJune 9, 2008 12:23:29 AMRespond ^
sir/mam i agree totally with you. i think that it should be like the old days to where everyone is automatically joined into some branch of the military then what would all of these thugs-gang members do they would be fighting for their country if they die its for something good not because of a rip off deal of some sort people need to think more and actually join some branch of the military im so excited to join the national guard if i could i would leave now at the age of 16 to fight for what i believe in for my country fight for those who are walking the streets of america and why because of soldiers thats why their walking freely
Posted by:soldier to beJune 9, 2008 12:28:49 AMRespond ^
I've been in 10 years. They paid for my BS in Engineering and now they paid my masters of engineering. That quote from MAJ Paraan seems to be out of context. Hey CM, the recruiter just wants to talk to you. You have to decide to sign or not. One recruiter can only talk to so many students, come on.
Posted by:LandonJuly 7, 2008 8:06:43 AMRespond ^
HEY MR. COLLEGE STUDENT.

WE DONT WANT GRADES, OR RACE OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN A NAME AND A PHONE NUMBER. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.
Posted by:armyJuly 7, 2008 8:20:34 AMRespond ^
Tabbatha: You need to take all that information with your husband and sit down with his Company Commander. The commander should be able to fix this directly with finance. Tell the Commander that if it is not fixed in 30 days that you will file a congressional. If its not fixed call your home state congressmans office to officially file a congressional inquirey. Trust me it will be fixed.
Posted by:Former CommanderJuly 7, 2008 8:25:48 AMRespond ^
I do not understand the problem with a recruiter contacting anybody. The problem is the hounding done by the Army and Marine recruiters, they do not know how to take no for an answer, you hang up with one and tomorrow another one calls. They also do not need to be hounding kids at lunch while in school, they can hang out at their table and be a presence if someone wants to talk but not force themselves on anyone. For some reason I do not hear any complaints about the Navy and Air Force recruiters in the schools.
Posted by:ScottPJuly 9, 2008 9:39:49 AMRespond ^
"When the military is for staying drug free,becoming responsible,staying fit,getting a higher education."
...Actually my dear, what the military is for is DESTRUCTION of human bodies, buildings, and the environment. How unevolved are we? Children and teens do not have the capacities to make such important decisions, especially when they are indoctrinated with lies.
Posted by:Peace IS The WayJuly 11, 2008 1:41:39 PMRespond ^
Well I see that nothing will ever change in this country. People always have to say bad things about the military. I am an Army Recruiter and I have recruited in both Poor and Rich Areas. We don't target POOR kids last time I checked people don't have I am POOR stamped to their Head so when you walk up to talk to them You say they are POOR let me lie to them about the army so I can get them in. You can get your name off of the list that is released to the public but Americans are so lazy they don't even fill out the forms that are sent home with their kids they just throw them away. Yes I do know what I am talking about because a school in Texas that had 1200 students only had 200 opt out forms sent back to the school. So how is that anyone problem but the parents. I didn't have a way to go to college when I finished School and had never worked a day in my life. I now have a BA in Business and own Two Houses. And the last time I made $800 a month was in 1996 as a single soldier. Housing is around $1000 a month and Food is $272 a month for family of 4 making 800 that is a crock go look in up on the world wide web today a married soldier would make no less then $2000 after taxes. Without a college degree not bad. You may have to talk to someone at your high school about your future but it could be worst. Schools let colleges talk to these kids all the time about college loans and tells them all the good stuff about college just to have them get done to owe $40,000 and have to work in fast food because that have non experience in any job. At least the military gives you a chance to be successful in LIFE. Oh yes soldiers die everyday in war but more people die in America the home of the free because of the BRAVE. So why don't you get off of your high horse and do a little reading look at some real stats and then open your mouth. By the Way Schools get more money based on the amount of students that go to college, do you think that might have something to do with the fact 65% of college students will not return after their 1st Year. something to think about
Posted by:Army SoldierAugust 10, 2008 10:56:27 PMRespond ^
The US military isn't like other 'employers.' In 1975, this nation decided to go with an All Volunteer Force rather than a draft. This required the military to pay soldiers better, treat them better, and to recruit. How in the world can we expect to man our military without recruiting?

I know there are people opposed to military service. Tough! If you or your child don't want any part of the military, then simply throw out their 'junk mail' or say 'No, thank you' when they call. Politicians are exempt from 'Do Not Call' lists; our military should be no different.

I joined the Army in 1985 and served over 21 years total in the active army, National Guard, and US Army Reserve. There were many tough times and many bad situations, but overall the experience was very rewarding.

I saw countries I would never see and provided humanitarian assistance to people who needed it desperately. I learned foreign languages. I never fought in combat. May pay at the time I got out as a Major with full allowances and tax breaks was over $130,000 a year.

I went to school at night while I was in Germany, earning an AA degree with 100% tuition paid. Then using my GI Bill and National Guard tuition assistance, I completed a B.S completely debt free. After that, my National Guard/USAR paycheck helped me pay for graduate school where I got a PhD.

With only 30% of the age-eligible population eligible because of health, legal, or educational criteria, it is ESSENTIAL that the military have access to give their pitch to each and every potential recruit.

"Preying" on our kids? In a world with drugs, crime, cults, and predatory salesmen trying to reach for your souls and your wallets, considering our valiant and necessary military to be "preying" on young people is absurd!

For the person who says 66% of vets who participate in the GI Bill don't get benefits, you are a LIAR. That's Conscientiousobjector.org BS. Not everyone who enlists CHOOSES to participate. If one chooses to participate, going to college later is your OPTION. If you don't use the benefits, you can transfer them to an immediate family member. Having an OPTION for college assistance is better than having NO OPTION. Veterans also are entitled to VA home loans and the vast majority never use this. Is that statistic supposed to mean something? Shut your face!

It is wonderful to serve your country in the military. It's not a dishonor to choose not to serve. But in a democracy which relies on a volunteer force, it is completely dishonorable and unpatriotic to vigorously oppose our military and its ability to recruit.

How would you like to go back to a system where your service was determined by lottery and was COMPULSORY!

If you hate our military, you are un-American. So just shut up!
Posted by:R. MillerAugust 27, 2008 1:23:56 PMRespond ^
Senators and Congressman's children are OVER represented in the military. You're chewing, swallowing, and digesting leftist BS. John McCain's son just got back from combat.

Serving in our military is voluntary. If you think you can or should control your adult grandchildren's choice of whether or not to join the military, you are a hapless control freak. Why don't you tell them how to vote, what to eat, what to wear, and whether or not they should have sex or get an abortion. Shut up!
Posted by:R. MillerAugust 27, 2008 1:27:23 PMRespond ^
Only 18% of recruits come from the lowest quintile of income earning households. (For you dolts out there, a quintile is a 20% cohort). That means the poorest Americans are UNDER-represented in our military.

Here are the current military pay tables:

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/mil itarypaytables/2008MilitaryPayCharts35.pdf

The lowest private earns $1347 a month, not counting housing, food, and clothing allowances. You get extra pay if you have a dependent. It comes with 100% free health insurance and 100% tuition assistance for college classes. Enlistments often come with hefty bonuses which augment this pay rate. If you serve in combat, you receive combat pay and ALL your pay is tax free.

You stay at the lowest pay grade for only 6 months (or less). By 1 year in service, you will already have a $200 a month pay raise. By 2 years, your pay will have risen at least $400 a month.

If you've got four kids and no college education, you're not going to be able to afford to live on ANY job you're likely to get. You can't blame the military for your unwise breeding. And the Axiom of Revealed Preferences applies: if someone CHOOSES to join the military, it was likely the best choice available to them at the time that they knew about.

You are free to say 'No' to a recruiter. You are not free from supporting our military with your tax dollars or allowing our military to do its job of recruiting and maintaining a force.
Posted by:R. MillerAugust 27, 2008 1:39:30 PMRespond ^
this is for the person wanting to join the military with the army is helping young men and woman get there GED just locate your local ARMY recruiter and he will be able to help you.
Posted by:army recruiter September 1, 2008 6:22:52 PMRespond ^
[deleted] you tou [deleted] ass communist douchebag i cant believe that u would rather let the country be taken over than letting graduates go to the military , hello? Vietnam? did you forget about that ? there were 16 yearolds over there, kids today can handle it, ps die
Posted by:patriot101September 5, 2008 2:09:13 PMRespond ^
It is not right for them to do this. I feel this way as I am a mom of a son that will be 18 soon. They promise so much but for what, ours sons lives. This just brings me to tears.
Posted by:GayleOctober 18, 2008 5:59:14 PMRespond ^
I'm a mom in Fredericksburg, VA,and last night I received a call from a masked caller ID at 9:50 pm on MY unlisted cell phone from a USMC recruiter who asked to speak to my son w/out identifying himself. I asked him who was calling my 17-year-old at that time of night, and he said could he just speak to my son. I said no he had gone to bed (it was a school night) and asked why he was calling on my cell? He said he was a recruiter and he was contacting all graduating seniors. I asked him how he got my phone number and he said the School Board, you know, NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND. I said I would address that with the school board, but that my son was interested in another branch, if anything. I want my son to go to college. Where is the federal funding for that?!!! I don't want the school board giving out my personal info, and I don't want someone I don't know calling anyone in my family late at night.
Posted by:spinOctober 21, 2008 9:11:55 AMRespond ^
I believe everyone should have there own choice. But if you look at it from a different perspective. What if we where like other countries and are kids where forced to join the Army? What if we stopped recruiting people for the US Army? Let me ask you this what would you do if we got invaded by another country and had no military? I make a little over 4k a month and ive been in for 5yrs. I started off makeing more than 2k a month. So I dont see how people qualify for food stamps in the Military. What is funny is I know I dont call and try to talk anyone into joining the Army. I call to inform them of what the Army has to offer. And for the person that said we go die. I have alot of friends in the Army and I havent seen any of them die from combat. The fact is more people die in the US every day from a car accident than soldiers that die in Iraq.
Posted by:U. S. Army RecruiterOctober 22, 2008 10:30:42 AMRespond ^
I'm a high school student, and I have to write an editorial on military recruiting tactics. I know there are many statistics against the recruiters, but are there any actual facts, not opinions, in military recruiters' defense.
I'm just trying to get all the facts and remain unbiased. Thanks!
Posted by:LaurenneOctober 27, 2008 9:26:42 AMRespond ^
Today schools seem more about skinnerian indoctrination and contracts then ever . curriculum dumbed down so as to raise scores for politicians.
credit cards on the doors , student loans ,recruters,nclb ect. its time to connect the dots and look at ourselves and our communities. reform is needed
Posted by:zenmanNovember 7, 2008 10:54:16 AMRespond ^

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