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A McCain Flip-Flop on Osama bin Laden?
On August 7, 1998, hundreds of people were killed when terrorists detonated car bombs at the U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. Almost immediately, the United States had evidence that a little-known group called al Qaeda was complicit in the attacks. Though al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden had been plotting against the United States for years, this act of mass-murder won the band of Islamic terrorists and its leaders worldwide infamy. Weeks after the attack, President Clinton fired scores of Tomahawk missiles at a suspected al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, and he also attacked a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan his administration claimed was a chemical weapons plant.
Ten years later, this past August 7, John McCain released a statement on the anniversary of the embassy bombings. It was a harsh indictment of the Clinton administration and others who in McCain's estimation had not regarded the threat of al Qaeda with sufficient seriousness back then:
Today marks the 10th anniversary of the al Qaeda terrorist attacks on U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that killed more than 225 people, including 12 Americans, and injured thousands others. The attacks made it painfully clear that al Qaeda's terrorist call to arms to attack Americans anywhere in the world was not an empty threat. The attacks proved the vulnerability of U.S. installations overseas, and demonstrated -- to any that needed further evidence -- that al Qaeda was a well-funded, organized and treacherous terrorist organization determined to kill Americans. Tragically, the U.S. response to the 1998 embassy bombings was wholly inadequate in addressing the threat posed by Al Qaeda despite the horrific toll of the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Too many Clinton Administration officials refused to act effectively to counter the dangers posed by al Qaeda. Three years later, al Qaeda's commitment to kill was devastatingly brought to our soil.
But at the time--even after the embassy bombings--McCain, too, was slow to recognize the nature of the threat posed by al Qaeda and bin Laden. Weeks after these attacks, he even came across as dismissive of bin Laden as a danger and showed no enthusiasm for hunting down this terrorist and his al Qaeda allies. And he did so in a Mother Jones interview.
In mid-September 1998, journalist Jason Vest, on assignment for the magazine, conducted an hour-long interview with McCain. At the time, McCain's efforts to pass campaign finance reform and anti-tobacco legislation had made him, as Vest put it, "the darling of political reporters." Much of the interview covered issues of money and politics. But with the embassy bombings still in the news, Vest asked McCain about bin Laden and how to deal with terrorism. The following exchange ensued:
Vest: You not only have had combat experience in Vietnam, but you were also a prisoner of war. When you look at terrorism right now, with people like Osama bin Laden, do you have any reservations about watching strikes like that?
McCain: You could say, Look, is this guy, Laden, really the bad guy that's depicted? Most of us have never heard of him before. And where there is a parallel with Vietnam is: What's plan B? What do we do next? We sent our troops into Vietnam to protect the bases. Lyndon Johnson said, Only to protect the bases. Next thing you know....Well, we've declared to the terrorists that we're going to strike them wherever they live. That's fine. But what's next? That's where there might be some comparison.
McCain's answer makes it seem that he was not overly concerned about bin Laden or eager to go after him and that he was worried that military action against al Qaeda could draw the United States into another quagmire. That is, he was talking like those people whom McCain attacked in 2008 for not having realized in 1998 that "al Qaeda was a well-funded, organized and treacherous terrorist organization determined to kill Americans."
On August 20, 1998--the day that Clinton attacked the al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan and the factory in Sudan--McCain did issue a press release praising the military action as a "welcome response" He added that "American credibility and resolve have been enhanced by today's strikes." Two days later on CNN, he again hailed Clinton's response: "The president's decision to strike and his administration's promise to prevail in what may well be a long-term campaign were right." But a search of the Congressional Record at www.thomas.loc.gov indicates McCain made no statements on the Senate floor regarding bin Laden or al Qaeda any time that year. And a Nexis search of the six months following the embassy bombings produced no references to any McCain comments related to this terrorist outfit and its leader--other than his praise for Clinton's retaliatory strikes.
McCain's 1998 remarks to Mother Jones and the absence of public statements from him about bin Laden at the time suggest that McCain had been as much behind the curve on al Qaeda as the people he would decry ten years after the fact. At the time, he did not in public treat al Qaeda as a serious danger or advocate swift and extensive action. A decade later, he had no reason--other than politics--to be pointing fingers.
My list of growing Hussein Obama TOP 31 flip flops, or what MJ will allow to be shown-
? The Surge: "It's fascinating to watch Barack Obama change his opinions on the U.S. troop surge in Iraq... Here's a combo -- a Los Angeles Times report on deletions of Obama's previous anti-surge position on his Web site plus a YouTube video showing his flip-flops on the issue."
? Gay Marriage: "Obama before the election: States should decide gay marriage. Obama during the election: California's attempt to decide gay marriage for itself is 'divisive and discriminatory.' "
? FISA: "Like everything Barack Obama says, that pledge was operative only as long as it was in Obama's political interest."
? NAFTA: "OK, this is pathetic: Obama now says that his anti-NAFTA rhetoric during the campaign was a bit 'overheated.'"
? Publicly financed campaigns: "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."
? DC Handgun Ban: "After a day spent paying lip service to both sides of the debate while studiously avoiding the issue of whether the actual statute at stake in Heller was unconstitutional, he finally bites the bullet (no pun intended) and addresses it.."
? School Vouchers: "Barack Obama told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel in February that he was open to voucher programs, but just last week announced his intentions to squash the DC pilot program."
? Guantanamo Bay: "I'm curious as to what's motivating this [new] compromise. Is there any logic behind it or is it a simple something-for-both-sides political solution?"
? Illegal Immigration - [In March 2004], Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation."
? Marijuana - "[In] January 2004, Obama [said] he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana."
? Abortion - "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says "mental distress" should not qualify as a health exception for late term-abortions, a key distinction not embraced by many supporters of abortion rights."
? Iraq: "At a time when [the Surge appears to be working], is that the right time to try and set time tables for withdrawing all American troops? [Kroft asked. Obama replied,] "Yeah, absolutely. I think now is precisely the time..." [Kroft:] "And you pull out according to that time table, regardless of the situation? Even if there's serious sectarian violence?" Kroft asked."No, I always reserve as commander in chief, the right to assess the situation," Obama replied."
? Death Penalty: "Ten years ago, when Obama was running for statewide office in an [exclusive] Chicago district, he opposed the death penalty. He now supports the ultimate penalty."
? Faith-based initiatives - "During the recent Obama pander tour... the presumptive Democratic nominee unnecessarily endorsed President Bush's faith-based initiative, a sort of patronage program that rewards religious activists for their political support with public grants."
? Wearing a U.S. Flag Pin - "You'll notice Barack Obama is now wearing a flag pin. Again. During the primary campaign, he refused to, explaining that he'd worn one after 9/11 but then stopped because it "became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism." So why is he back to sporting pseudo-patriotism on his chest? Need you ask? The primaries are over."
? Reverend Jeremiah Wright - "'I can no more disown (Jeremiah Wright) than I can disown my white grandmother' - then wiped away a tear and hailed him as the second coming of Abraham Lincoln. Three months later, with Wright disowned, grandma embraced and the great "race speech" now inoperative, not a word of reconsideration is heard from his media acolytes."
? Welfare Reform: "Barack Obama aligned himself with welfare reform on Monday, launching a television ad which touts the way the overhaul "slashed the rolls by 80 percent." Obama leaves out, however, that he was against the 1996 federal legislation which precipitated the caseload reduction."
? The Cuba Embargo: "In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed..." ...in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change.""
? Single-payer Healthcare - "Contradicting what Obama said at the debate, the old footage shows the senator saying, "I happen to be a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare coverage. That's what I'd like to see."At the debate, Obama stated: "I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single-payer... Single-payer healthcare is an euphemism for socialized medicine."
? Special Interest Contributions: "In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions ...as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements... [referring] respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and ...he is "thrilled" by their support."
? Divided Jerusalem: "Many on the right of the political spectrum... welcomed Obama's remarks at AIPAC, but the clarification of his position left several cold."
? Meeting with Iran's leaders without preconditions - "Barack Obama has returned to the no-preconditions policy for meeting with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, according to Obama foreign-policy adviser Anthony Lake. Financial Times also discovered in its interview with Lake that Obama has reversed himself on Iraq, now saying that the withdrawal is off."
? Palestinian elections - "[In 2006,] Obama [said]: "There is no room at the negotiating table for terrorist organizations. That is why I opposed holding elections in 2006 with Hamas on the ballot.... But During His 2006 Trip To The Middle East, Obama Met With Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas And Said The Election Represented An "Opportunity?To Consolidate Behind A Single Government."
? The threat posed by Iran: "Yesterday [in Oregon, Obama said], "I mean think about it. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us....You know, Iran, they spend one-one hundredth of what we spend on the military. If Iran ever tried to pose a serious threat to us, they wouldn't stand a chance." Today in Montana, Obama changed his tune: " Iran is a grave threat. It has an illicit nuclear program. It supports terrorism across the region and militias in Iraq. It threatens Israel's existence. It denies the Holocaust..."
? The Patriot Act: " In 2003, he said he was against the Patriot Act, but voted for it in 2006."
? Gays in the Military: ""In 2003, he said he was against the repeal of DOMA, but now he's for it in 2007. In 2003, he said he'd have to "examine specific legislation" dealing with LGBT discrimination in the military, now he's completely for ending "don't ask/don't tell".""
? Coal: "Although summer hasn't officially begun, flip-flop season is well underway and it appears Senator Obama has joined the club... On Tuesday Obama, whose support for coal-to-liquid has been widely criticized by environmentalists, sent out a press release clarifying his position on liquid coal."
? Wiretapping: "Netroots activists who helped Barack Obama to become the Democratic party's presumptive presidential nominee are unmoved by the senator's explanation of his change of heart on a pending bill regarding warrantless wiretapping."
Drilling Video of Obama changing his position on offshore drilling ...obviously only a compromise not a flip flip per the Messiah
Payroll Taxes
From the Penn debate: As a minimum he's flip-flopped on his original idea of sticking it to the top 5% or 6% that make too much money for Comrade Obama's liking and taxing everything over $97000
Tonight the first flip flop when attacked by his opponent who points out that many Pennsylvanian teachers, firefighters who typically support Democrats make slightly more than $97000...he addresses their likely salary range saying " I'd be willing to look at exempting people who are making slightly above that."
Then when pressed further by Charlie who reminds him there's a heck of a lot of people making more than $97,000 and less than $200,000 Obama changes his position again and literally stammers an untruth "And that's -- and that's -- and that's why I've said, Charlie, that I would look at potentially exempting those who are in between."
31 Obama did a flip-flop on the construction of a security fence
in 2006 Obama voted for the counstruction of a border fence with Mexico. He reversed his position during the Democrat primary
My list of growing Hussein Obama TOP 31 flip flops, or what MJ will allow to be shown-
? The Surge: "It's fascinating to watch Barack Obama change his opinions on the U.S. troop surge in Iraq... Here's a combo -- a Los Angeles Times report on deletions of Obama's previous anti-surge position on his Web site plus a YouTube video showing his flip-flops on the issue."
? Gay Marriage: "Obama before the election: States should decide gay marriage. Obama during the election: California's attempt to decide gay marriage for itself is 'divisive and discriminatory.' "
? FISA: "Like everything Barack Obama says, that pledge was operative only as long as it was in Obama's political interest."
? NAFTA: "OK, this is pathetic: Obama now says that his anti-NAFTA rhetoric during the campaign was a bit 'overheated.'"
? Publicly financed campaigns: "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."
? DC Handgun Ban: "After a day spent paying lip service to both sides of the debate while studiously avoiding the issue of whether the actual statute at stake in Heller was unconstitutional, he finally bites the bullet (no pun intended) and addresses it.."
? School Vouchers: "Barack Obama told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel in February that he was open to voucher programs, but just last week announced his intentions to squash the DC pilot program."
? Guantanamo Bay: "I'm curious as to what's motivating this [new] compromise. Is there any logic behind it or is it a simple something-for-both-sides political solution?"
? Illegal Immigration - [In March 2004], Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation."
? Marijuana - "[In] January 2004, Obama [said] he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana."
? Abortion - "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says "mental distress" should not qualify as a health exception for late term-abortions, a key distinction not embraced by many supporters of abortion rights."
? Iraq: "At a time when [the Surge appears to be working], is that the right time to try and set time tables for withdrawing all American troops? [Kroft asked. Obama replied,] "Yeah, absolutely. I think now is precisely the time..." [Kroft:] "And you pull out according to that time table, regardless of the situation? Even if there's serious sectarian violence?" Kroft asked."No, I always reserve as commander in chief, the right to assess the situation," Obama replied."
? Death Penalty: "Ten years ago, when Obama was running for statewide office in an [exclusive] Chicago district, he opposed the death penalty. He now supports the ultimate penalty."
? Faith-based initiatives - "During the recent Obama pander tour... the presumptive Democratic nominee unnecessarily endorsed President Bush's faith-based initiative, a sort of patronage program that rewards religious activists for their political support with public grants."
? Wearing a U.S. Flag Pin - "You'll notice Barack Obama is now wearing a flag pin. Again. During the primary campaign, he refused to, explaining that he'd worn one after 9/11 but then stopped because it "became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism." So why is he back to sporting pseudo-patriotism on his chest? Need you ask? The primaries are over."
? Reverend Jeremiah Wright - "'I can no more disown (Jeremiah Wright) than I can disown my white grandmother' - then wiped away a tear and hailed him as the second coming of Abraham Lincoln. Three months later, with Wright disowned, grandma embraced and the great "race speech" now inoperative, not a word of reconsideration is heard from his media acolytes."
? Welfare Reform: "Barack Obama aligned himself with welfare reform on Monday, launching a television ad which touts the way the overhaul "slashed the rolls by 80 percent." Obama leaves out, however, that he was against the 1996 federal legislation which precipitated the caseload reduction."
? The Cuba Embargo: "In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed..." ...in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change.""
? Single-payer Healthcare - "Contradicting what Obama said at the debate, the old footage shows the senator saying, "I happen to be a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare coverage. That's what I'd like to see."At the debate, Obama stated: "I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single-payer... Single-payer healthcare is an euphemism for socialized medicine."
? Special Interest Contributions: "In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions ...as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements... [referring] respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and ...he is "thrilled" by their support."
? Divided Jerusalem: "Many on the right of the political spectrum... welcomed Obama's remarks at AIPAC, but the clarification of his position left several cold."
? Meeting with Iran's leaders without preconditions - "Barack Obama has returned to the no-preconditions policy for meeting with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, according to Obama foreign-policy adviser Anthony Lake. Financial Times also discovered in its interview with Lake that Obama has reversed himself on Iraq, now saying that the withdrawal is off."
? Palestinian elections - "[In 2006,] Obama [said]: "There is no room at the negotiating table for terrorist organizations. That is why I opposed holding elections in 2006 with Hamas on the ballot.... But During His 2006 Trip To The Middle East, Obama Met With Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas And Said The Election Represented An "Opportunity?To Consolidate Behind A Single Government."
? The threat posed by Iran: "Yesterday [in Oregon, Obama said], "I mean think about it. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us....You know, Iran, they spend one-one hundredth of what we spend on the military. If Iran ever tried to pose a serious threat to us, they wouldn't stand a chance." Today in Montana, Obama changed his tune: " Iran is a grave threat. It has an illicit nuclear program. It supports terrorism across the region and militias in Iraq. It threatens Israel's existence. It denies the Holocaust..."
? The Patriot Act: " In 2003, he said he was against the Patriot Act, but voted for it in 2006."
? Gays in the Military: ""In 2003, he said he was against the repeal of DOMA, but now he's for it in 2007. In 2003, he said he'd have to "examine specific legislation" dealing with LGBT discrimination in the military, now he's completely for ending "don't ask/don't tell".""
? Coal: "Although summer hasn't officially begun, flip-flop season is well underway and it appears Senator Obama has joined the club... On Tuesday Obama, whose support for coal-to-liquid has been widely criticized by environmentalists, sent out a press release clarifying his position on liquid coal."
? Wiretapping: "Netroots activists who helped Barack Obama to become the Democratic party's presumptive presidential nominee are unmoved by the senator's explanation of his change of heart on a pending bill regarding warrantless wiretapping."
Drilling Video of Obama changing his position on offshore drilling ...obviously only a compromise not a flip flip per the Messiah
Payroll Taxes
From the Penn debate: As a minimum he's flip-flopped on his original idea of sticking it to the top 5% or 6% that make too much money for Comrade Obama's liking and taxing everything over $97000
Tonight the first flip flop when attacked by his opponent who points out that many Pennsylvanian teachers, firefighters who typically support Democrats make slightly more than $97000...he addresses their likely salary range saying " I'd be willing to look at exempting people who are making slightly above that."
Then when pressed further by Charlie who reminds him there's a heck of a lot of people making more than $97,000 and less than $200,000 Obama changes his position again and literally stammers an untruth "And that's -- and that's -- and that's why I've said, Charlie, that I would look at potentially exempting those who are in between."
31 Obama did a flip-flop on the construction of a security fence
in 2006 Obama voted for the counstruction of a border fence with Mexico. He reversed his position during the Democrat primary
What a lame story.
"Keep in mind that before the daily issues are published in "bound," final form, members of Congress can edit their remarks substantially, as well as include or delete supplementary material." - http://library.stmarytx.edu/acadlib/doc/guides/congress/cr.htm.
And this is what MJ has based this piece upon? A document that can be edited at will with additions and deltions?
So, the old man not knowing everything at the time chose not to make a statement? KNOWING that the Congressional Record can be considered fictional at times, I can't wait to read the responses defending this article!
Ah yes, McCain condemned al Qaeda and the lack of action by the Clintoon Administration roundly, firmly, and frequently on the floor of Congress. And then he went back and had all of that removed from the record as to not appear as if he knew something about it.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
A real milk-snorter.
-Wexler
I think the Big Question of the 08 campaign isn't which Candidate do I prefer, but rather who DON'T I want to see be our next prezminite.
I'm still open for the job, minimum hourly plus gas, I'll take that job, sure, but of the two most likely to succeed Bush, I don't want McCain. Both Candidates have their merits and faults thus far, but McCain seems like he's talking out of his vest pocket or something sometimes, kind of like he doesn't really have a handle on the facts, whereas Obama comes across like he's read a bit and has good people keeping him up-to-date on what's up in the world. Oh, and there's the POW thing. I don't know if 5 years in captivity disqualifies McCain outright, hasn't kept him from becoming a Senator, of course maybe that's not saying a whole lot, I don't know, I just prefer Obama. I think one strength that Barack can bring to the whole thing is that he does have some background through blood relation to the African continent, and may therefore be able to provide some insight and opinion relevant and timely to the whole middle east/al queda thing from that standpoint. If our military's going to be involved in goings-on overseas on multiple continents simultaneously and apparently for all perpetuity, then I want our Commander-in-chief-guy/gal to be Johnny-on-the-spot with the low-down on the whole story. Barack also supports bringing the troops home, that's been sort of a plank in the whole campaign-thing there, and that's a move that I'm in favor of. Barack=1, McCain=0. That's how I see it.
Ol' John is counting on America's short memory, just as he always has. It's the only time his judgement has been sound. I like this article because it makes us think about who's really going to make us safe?
Spin won't win this time John.
If there is a strength to this article it is the date of McCain's statement. At that time it was well known that the current president and his family were on quite good terms with bin laden.
Honor, country and truth? McCain has lost all creditability as he is only focused on what is best for him...winning
Could we please get over this "fake" story (honor/country) that has been the narative in the press all these years. Thanks David as always thanks for "true" reporting.
Jimmy's comments are meaningless. The article was not based on the Congressional Record. It was based on a personal interview and cross-checked with a Nexis search to see if perhaps McCain had made a definitive statement and the CR to likewise see if he sought to warn congress. It seems obvious that McCain, like those he much later condemned, also had no fear that Bin Laden was an important threat. Why would anyone think that McCain would remove an aggressive statement from the CR? He would be more likely to *ADD* one. If possible he would add one now! But remember that there are tapes of these sessions available for anyone to see and hear. These do *NOT* get modified to match the CR, so once things are said, they are said. And if things are added, their absence on the tapes become more of an embarrassment if someone like McCain wants to use this as evidence that he was better than all the rest.
I had no idea Mother Jones writes with pro-liberal bias when I signed up. McCain doesn't corner the market on flip-flopping, especially after 10 years. Also, who gives a rat's butt about Sarah Palin's accent. I'm unsubscribing to this crappy magazine.
"McCain made no statements on the Senate floor regarding bin Laden..."
"Next thing you know....Well, we've declared to the terrorists that we're going to strike them wherever they live. That's fine. But what's next? That's where there might be some comparison."
These are the two key points this article from which this article is based. The first thing one of a sound mind asks is, What is being left out in the ellipsis? (Of course we know that MJ is tried and true and no bias was written in; nor was it implied.) Second; In what context was his question (What next?) asked? And third; because one chooses not to use a tool, a fictional tool at that, one is punished? It is virtually amazing how many sycophant minds are out there on the WWW,.. excuse me, the www, left. On one hand it seems that we are always but one conspiracy away from Republican takeover, on the other, this article, claims the right is no better informed than the rest of us.
"A decade later, he had no reason--other than politics--to be pointing fingers."
NEWSFLASH! ELECTIONS in NOVEMBER and the majority wins! A majority of the Electoral College, that is.
Clinton warned Bush about bin Laden, as did the CIA, FBI. He chose to do absolutely nothing. NOTHING!!! And then when attacked he went to war with the wrong guys, all with McCain's blessings and support. John can't wait to go to war with Iran. It amazes me that anyone at all can support this pathalogical lying McBush-whacked idiot. The whole world, having a stake in American politics, wants Obama. We need to fox our image in the world. We need to make peace and create jobs. Why give the Republicans another chance?
"The whole world, having a stake in American politics, wants Obama." -Oxnard
Then Obama may need to run for a UN seat. The presidental election is a U.S. only event. Call me a jingoist if you will, but I do not give a damn about what Iran, Iraq, any place in Africa or even Europe wants, it's an AMERICAN ONLY event. Others need not apply.
And, since when is the U.S. beholden to other countries wants in OUR elections? Damn!
"I'm unsubscribing to this crappy magazine." -- Charles
Nice try, Charles McTroll.
How could ANYONE have "no idea" Mother Jones writes with a pro-liberal outlook? AND maintain such ignorance long enough to send them money for an actual subscription? Who subscribes to a magazine with no idea of what they are buying? Who could POSSIBLY be ignorant of Mother Jones' bias toward truth -- and away from too-simple lies being sold as truth?
Sorry: can't happen here.
Hence you are lying, hence you are a troll; spreading the simple black-and-white sentiments you hope will discourage any conditioned Repug dupe from reading further and actually thinking for a change.
Dear Dan "The Drone" Mortenson,
You are a perfect drone for MJ in blindly supporting their myopic views of politics, not to mention your incredible genius in uncovering the fact that a person doesn't need to pay for a free blog site.
Finally, since you are fond of the phrase "no idea", did bother to read or fail to comprehend MoJo's Blog Community Rule #2:
Do Not Abuse, Harass, or Defame
- No personal attacks. Insulting, attacking, or denigrating another community member are ad-hominem attacks, which weaken debate and are not allowed under any circumstances. We have zero tolerance for taking an argument about any topic to a personal level.
Best of Luck to you.
I thought this was a fairly lame article - but I thought the post by the the knucklehead that didn't know MJ was a liberal magazine was hilarious.
Jimmy 10/06/08 4.03 pm.
You ask. Since when did the rest of the world have a stake in the American elections? Or rather should have.
Ever since America couldn't stop poking their bib in the affairs of foreign countries,and the policies of the U S A interferes daily in the conduct and direction of those same countries. You know, as when they actually install puppet Leaders acceptable to the U S A.
I am amazed that words used on the floor of Congress can be expunged or altered in anyway. In Australia and Britain, or any other Westminster Parliamentary system, what is said is Hansard recorded verbatim.
The only exception is when ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE a member "Withdraws" a statement
because the Speaker has deemed the statement as being
unacceptable.(Strangely calling another Politician a "LIAR" is unacceptable.) Even then, if the member refuses, it remains on the books but inevitably the offending member is suspended, not for the statement, but for refusing a direction of the "Speaker."
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
My list of growing Hussein Obama TOP 31 flip flops, or what MJ will allow to be shown-
The Surge: "It's fascinating to watch Barack Obama change his opinions on the U.S. troop surge in Iraq... Here's a combo -- a Los Angeles Times report on deletions of Obama's previous anti-surge position on his Web site plus a YouTube video showing his flip-flops on the issue."
Gay Marriage: "Obama before the election: States should decide gay marriage. Obama during the election: California's attempt to decide gay marriage for itself is 'divisive and discriminatory.' "
FISA: "Like everything Barack Obama says, that pledge was operative only as long as it was in Obama's political interest."
NAFTA: "OK, this is pathetic: Obama now says that his anti-NAFTA rhetoric during the campaign was a bit 'overheated.'"
Publicly financed campaigns: "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."
DC Handgun Ban: "After a day spent paying lip service to both sides of the debate while studiously avoiding the issue of whether the actual statute at stake in Heller was unconstitutional, he finally bites the bullet (no pun intended) and addresses it.."
School Vouchers: "Barack Obama told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel in February that he was open to voucher programs, but just last week announced his intentions to squash the DC pilot program."
Guantanamo Bay: "I'm curious as to what's motivating this [new] compromise. Is there any logic behind it or is it a simple something-for-both-sides political solution?"
Illegal Immigration - [In March 2004], Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation."
Marijuana - "[In] January 2004, Obama [said] he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana."
Abortion - "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says "mental distress" should not qualify as a health exception for late term-abortions, a key distinction not embraced by many supporters of abortion rights."
Iraq: "At a time when [the Surge appears to be working], is that the right time to try and set time tables for withdrawing all American troops? [Kroft asked. Obama replied,] "Yeah, absolutely. I think now is precisely the time..." [Kroft:] "And you pull out according to that time table, regardless of the situation? Even if there's serious sectarian violence?" Kroft asked."No, I always reserve as commander in chief, the right to assess the situation," Obama replied."
Death Penalty: "Ten years ago, when Obama was running for statewide office in an [exclusive] Chicago district, he opposed the death penalty. He now supports the ultimate penalty."
Faith-based initiatives - "During the recent Obama pander tour... the presumptive Democratic nominee unnecessarily endorsed President Bush's faith-based initiative, a sort of patronage program that rewards religious activists for their political support with public grants."
Wearing a U.S. Flag Pin - "You'll notice Barack Obama is now wearing a flag pin. Again. During the primary campaign, he refused to, explaining that he'd worn one after 9/11 but then stopped because it "became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism." So why is he back to sporting pseudo-patriotism on his chest? Need you ask? The primaries are over."
Reverend Jeremiah Wright - "'I can no more disown (Jeremiah Wright) than I can disown my white grandmother' - then wiped away a tear and hailed him as the second coming of Abraham Lincoln. Three months later, with Wright disowned, grandma embraced and the great "race speech" now inoperative, not a word of reconsideration is heard from his media acolytes."
Welfare Reform: "Barack Obama aligned himself with welfare reform on Monday, launching a television ad which touts the way the overhaul "slashed the rolls by 80 percent." Obama leaves out, however, that he was against the 1996 federal legislation which precipitated the caseload reduction."
The Cuba Embargo: "In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed..." ...in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change.""
Single-payer Healthcare - "Contradicting what Obama said at the debate, the old footage shows the senator saying, "I happen to be a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare coverage. That's what I'd like to see."At the debate, Obama stated: "I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single-payer... Single-payer healthcare is an euphemism for socialized medicine."
Special Interest Contributions: "In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions ...as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements... [referring] respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and ...he is "thrilled" by their support."
Divided Jerusalem: "Many on the right of the political spectrum... welcomed Obama's remarks at AIPAC, but the clarification of his position left several cold."
Meeting with Iran's leaders without preconditions - "Barack Obama has returned to the no-preconditions policy for meeting with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, according to Obama foreign-policy adviser Anthony Lake. Financial Times also discovered in its interview with Lake that Obama has reversed himself on Iraq, now saying that the withdrawal is off."
Palestinian elections - "[In 2006,] Obama [said]: "There is no room at the negotiating table for terrorist organizations. That is why I opposed holding elections in 2006 with Hamas on the ballot.... But During His 2006 Trip To The Middle East, Obama Met With Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas And Said The Election Represented An "Opportunity To Consolidate Behind A Single Government."
The threat posed by Iran: "Yesterday [in Oregon, Obama said], "I mean think about it. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us....You know, Iran, they spend one-one hundredth of what we spend on the military. If Iran ever tried to pose a serious threat to us, they wouldn't stand a chance." Today in Montana, Obama changed his tune: " Iran is a grave threat. It has an illicit nuclear program. It supports terrorism across the region and militias in Iraq. It threatens Israel's existence. It denies the Holocaust..."
The Patriot Act: " In 2003, he said he was against the Patriot Act, but voted for it in 2006."
Gays in the Military: ""In 2003, he said he was against the repeal of DOMA, but now he's for it in 2007. In 2003, he said he'd have to "examine specific legislation" dealing with LGBT discrimination in the military, now he's completely for ending "don't ask/don't tell".""
Coal: "Although summer hasn't officially begun, flip-flop season is well underway and it appears Senator Obama has joined the club... On Tuesday Obama, whose support for coal-to-liquid has been widely criticized by environmentalists, sent out a press release clarifying his position on liquid coal."
Wiretapping: "Netroots activists who helped Barack Obama to become the Democratic party's presumptive presidential nominee are unmoved by the senator's explanation of his change of heart on a pending bill regarding warrantless wiretapping."
Drilling Video of Obama changing his position on offshore drilling ...obviously only a compromise not a flip flip per the Messiah
Payroll Taxes
From the Penn debate: As a minimum he's flip-flopped on his original idea of sticking it to the top 5% or 6% that make too much money for Comrade Obama's liking and taxing everything over $97000
Tonight the first flip flop when attacked by his opponent who points out that many Pennsylvanian teachers, firefighters who typically support Democrats make slightly more than $97000...he addresses their likely salary range saying " I'd be willing to look at exempting people who are making slightly above that."
Then when pressed further by Charlie who reminds him there's a heck of a lot of people making more than $97,000 and less than $200,000 Obama changes his position again and literally stammers an untruth "And that's -- and that's -- and that's why I've said, Charlie, that I would look at potentially exempting those who are in between."
31 Obama did a flip-flop on the construction of a security fence
in 2006 Obama voted for the counstruction of a border fence with Mexico. He reversed his position during the Democrat primary
McCain/Palin appeal to millions of dummied-down Americans who
want their leaders to be like them. They feel threatened by intelligence and are being primed to think of conscious people, not as 'snobs' anymore, but as terrorists. Calculated Deception is their game.
>>
If you look back at the history of not only our nation, but almost every other nation in the world, we did not get to where we are today with an "only us" mentality. If our founding fathers were not careful about who they chose to represent our country to the rest of the world, France would not have sent support and we would still be hailing to the Queen today. Think about things before you speak. Our country is the world in so many ways...no they do not vote but who we choose will determine a lot of upcoming issues we are going to be having (oil shortages, food shortages, etc.). Just remember, if not for the US being "beholden" to other countries, we would not be able to be proud and vote in the USA.
Did the posters at this site learn a different version of U.S. History?
Yes, the French aided the U.S. in the Revolutionary War, but as I learned it, they did it from the standpoint of being angry w/England over losing new colonial territories.
Ben Franklin cemented this alliance by signing a few treaties w/France, in France, one being the Amity Treaty. The other escapes me at the moment. The first one showed that France recognized the U.S. as independent and a trading partner. The second one, I think made an allies of France & the U.S. against England. Hence, this is why they came to our aid in the Revolutionary War.
Now getting back to the point; History does not show that there was ever any language that gave France a say so in our elections. And, they were not due any presidential favors in future elections. France's contribution to this war was to their own benefit. Remember WWI & WWII.
Maybe that's my problem, I think before I speak. Again, call me a jingoist, but this is an Americans only event, others need not apply.
Well I feel sorry for you Jimmy, because you obviously have your head up your a** and don't realize that what we do effects the rest of the world, that must be why the world markets are doing so "great" right now.
Jimmy: Maybe that's my problem, I think before I speak. Again, call me a jingoist, but this [election] is an Americans only event, others need not apply.
While your narcissistic ethno-/ego-centric worldview is disturbing, what is more frightening is how this may actually be reflective of many in our electorate. As you boasted, your "weakness" is your careful thought process which apparently leads to your brilliantly insightful comments. I would challenge you to merely THINK about the following, without feeling compelled (or even invited) to respond: You are automatically dismissive of the views/beliefs/opinions of any non-US entity, but perhaps you would be well served to ponder WHY it is that virtually everyone with an outside perspective favors Obama to lead the US.
What is it that nearly all of humanity can see that you are not recognizing about McCain? Feel free to consider as well current world economic markets for a clue as to how American leadership could possibly have an effect on anyone beyond our borders.
"head up your a** and don't realize"
"your narcissistic ethno-/ego-centric worldview is disturbing...What is it that nearly all of humanity can see that you are not recognizing about McCain?"
Now the posters speak for all of humanity. Speaking of being self-centered.
And I thought the vile was reserved for the right-wing.
No competing ideas allowed!
My apologies MJ, only just read the specific forum rules, probably I exceed the personal limit and will more carefully tread toward the general case.
Ciao
@ Robert O'Kane:
Nice list. Curious that no MoJo user has tried to refute it, or do anything at all but ignore it. No?
There are some other educational Flip-Flop collections floating around.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/24/AR2008022402094...
www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11535_Page2.html
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:cZFoKt8c2sUJ:www.nelsonguirado.com/...
It's interesting to note that, like lots of candidates I've watched in the past, the closer he gets to occupying the Oral Office, the more he changes previous positions Opposing sweeping executive powers to positions Supporting greater executive powers. And once he's gained the executive seat and doesn't have to worry about pleasing people for the next 3 years, I think we'll find President Obama seeking increases in his own powers at every opportunity, just like every president I've seen since I got big enough to pay attention (LBJ).
I think we're looking at just another typical offering from one of the wings of the Nation's Single Ruling Party.
The Big "Change We Can Believe In" is going to be the Change in the name on the Oral Office door and the Change in the presidick's complexion.
McCain/Palin is certainly not a better option.
This ex-Democrat is going third party, for the 4th Presidential election in a row.
"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used and that definite rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of the citizen to bear arms is just one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible."
-- Hubert H. Humphrey -- 1960
McSquirrel is in trouble. He so wants to be "Commander in Chief" to outdo his own Father and Grandfather that he will do anything and everything by hook or crook to win. He will lie, contrive and place himself first instead of Country for the betterment of himself. He is erratic, mad, foaming at the mouth, refused to look you in the eye, stab you in the back politician. He is the clone of Lieberman and other politicians that are in it for them. Vanity, arrogance, and pride have no place in the chair of Presidency.
Hey Jimmy,
The USA is the most powerful nation in Earth, and with great power comes great responsibility.
The US presidential elections may be determined by Americans only, but it will affect EVERYONE on the planet.
Ever heard the phrase "Leader of the Free World?" That's what the US president is. Emphasis on WORLD!
So now the American Citizen is ripping lines from the movie Spider Man?
"with great power comes great responsibility"
Is that considered plagiarism or copyright infringement?